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Guest Elizabeth K

Well - Not So Good - Women's Rights Advocates Trash Transwomen

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All, here is a counterbalance to the good post I just made on a printed article. The only good thing is it's not a mainstream article. Warning, the follow up opinions are vicious.

http://www.bilerico...._than_human.php

Oh my oh my oh my

Julie

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:blowup: :blowup: :blowup: :blowup: :blowup: :blowup: :blowup: :blowup: :blowup: :blowup: :blowup::thumbdown:

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Bigots will be bigots untill people who are better either shun them out like they do everyone else or they realize the err of their ways.

I for one think boycotting anything and everything around radicals like that is well deserved. They are entitled to their opinions, doesn't mean I have to stand by and do nothing about it though. If they think organizing and conquering is a great tactic...So be it. I don't see them getting far. Reminds me of...well...Ill just say something along the lines of the world 65-70 years ago...Just sayin.

Miranda

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At least the comments were good.

I in no way agree with or condone what those women said. When I only half jokingly refer to myself as a male feminist that is NOT the kind of feminism I meant.

I have long thought that transsexuals and other transdender must drive radical feminists absolutely mad. For FTMs -often I hear repeated here an embracing of stereotypes that they fight to eradicate. Even in some small things such as liking to be called girls as adults when even here in this very conservative area some women get upset when that term is used because it is seen as originating in deprecation and was so often used by men in a patronizing way. As if women didn't mature. Not a criticism-just an observation I was thinking about just yesterday as a matter of fact. I don't want to fall into the use of that term because even mild feminists often find it offensive after coming of age.

And MTFs are seen by some feminists as having benefited economically and socially from a male power position and then want to also be included in the Women's Club when they have not, to their way of thinking, paid their dues, while seeking to fulfill outdated gender roles. I disagree with that but have read that criticism several times before.

As for FtMs -what could be worse in a militant feminists eyes than selling out to the enemy? They don't understand transgender any better than any other segment of the population-possibly given the prejudices against us in those around them even less than most if that is possible.

I'm not surprised the militant feminists attack us. I am surprised they don't do it more often. I suppose as our profile in society rises so will these attacks. We really weren't on the radar much till now with most of them.

Again I don't agree with the militant feminists in any way but this is how I understand the situation.

Johnny

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.

That is VERY irritating.....GRRrrrrrrrr...

Dee Jay

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they seem like clans men in bras . or cup cakes . screaming about being the master gender. * shakes head* . but they are also cowards . they hide and do not give any one a chance to fight back. im not even mad . i feel sorry for them being so ignorant .

Sakura

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Maybe I was looking at the wrong comment section? Wading through the follow up posts, of which there may be more than 50, I thought of how many years ago, I would read leftist progressives arguing over how many angels could dance on the head of a pin while the Reaganites were winning the hearts and minds of the American Public. They lost the war while squabbling amongst themselves...

There are a lot of comments at the end of this article, but I guess I missed the vicious ones. I really thought most of the posters were left wing intellectuals, many of whom were debating the tired old argument about "men" in women's bathrooms...and paternalistic vs. maternalistic leadership qualities.

The good news is the intelligentsia does not shape public perception. I think the McDonalds video of the trangender beatdown did more to gain sympathy for trans people from America than anything in the last 10-20 years... Seeing that horror in video brought out a lot of compassion in people who may not have previously had it. Also, the followup interviews by Chrissie(sp?) were totally responsible and a credit to the Trans movement. A big plus...

Michelle

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I would read leftist progressives arguing over how many angels could dance on the head of a pin while the Reaganites were winning the hearts and minds of the American Public. They lost the war while squabbling amongst themselves...

Michelle

Who lost the war while squabbling amongst themselves?

Dee Jay

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I'm refering to the war to capture public opinion, not a war like the Mid East or Vietnam...

The conservatives were able to "capture" the American flag and Patriotism as a Republican virtue while the Democrats were weak after the end of the 1970's. Its pretty much stayed that way don't you think?

Btw, I don't want to get political other than in support of trans rights. I just think its a shame that traditionally oppressed groups squabble among themselves when they should be uniting to educate the public about our cause. It looks in the article like the Fems are willing to throw us under the bus... and its a shame. America's attitude toward gays has changed dramatically in the last 30 years because of organized activism and we could use that kind of effort...and help from others.

Michelle

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A thinly veiled attempt at rationalizing bigotry...

Unfortunately, I fear many will buy it because it provides cover to not change under the guise of advancing womens' rights; it's very calculated on thier part and empowers those who would oppress us around the globe...

Bobbi

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It seems to me that these are just angry and bitter "Feminists" attacking the most vulnerable group out there.

They know they can't attack men, and certainly could never bring their rights down or bring them down in social status, and they can't attack gays or gay rights because part of their movements members is made up of lesbians and gays are men, so who is left? Oh, duh! of course. Men who became women who are still largely scorned by society. makes perfect sense...

And of course, lets not allow transsexuals the right to respond in any form or contest all of this nonsense because what we say makes sense and isn't sexist, bigoted, extremist blather. The fact is, as of now we're lower on the totem pole than these women are and they want to keep us down since we are the only group left for them to feel superior about themselves over.

Inferiority complex much?

*Sighs*

~Risu.

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:blowup: :blowup: :blowup: :blowup: :blowup: :blowup: :blowup: :blowup: :blowup: :blowup: :blowup::thumbdown:

Took the uh, words right outta my mouth.

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Since when as anyone ever given a crap about extremist femicup cakes? I'd be more worried about a group that actually has leeway in the world like the religious and less worried about what is essentially another forgotten joke on a old SNL skit.

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Radicalization always leads to fear and ignorance.

I can say something about extremists in the feminist movement; they feel vulnerable and non-powerful. That is why they react with such anger to transwomen. If they truly did not feel threatened, they would not jump to the conclusion that women are so vulnerable that a transwomen who simply needs to use the restroom must be a "male" conspiring to rape them. :thumbdown:

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LESS THAN HUMAN??? So that means they don't think we should have any humans rights then. Which...also includes a right to live. That's evil. So I guess what they're saying is a woman is defined by her reproductive parts and nothing else. Which in essence reduces women to sex objects...supposedly the very things feminists fight against. How sad.

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I perceive the problem to be that we already have the ultra right which has taken over a mainstream political party as being against us. And this article shows that a group that is supposedly 'liberal' in its ideaology as being against us. (we certainly do encourage strange bedfellows, don't we?). To a moderate person, which (hopefully, anyway) makes up most this country, who reads the diatribes on both sides, the problem becomes, well if the left and the right are both against this group, there is really no reason for me to be for it, so I'll just stay out of the way and let them at it.

See, we don't gain more enemies, but we have a high probablility of losing friends. That's the problem.

This kind of rhetoric shows that the political/social spectrum is often just a circle with the extremists of both sides meeting on the opposite side from those who try to maintain a moderate position.

Hugz

Chloë

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Personally, i think it is funny "in a dark sarcastic joking way, No offense intended".

But these are women, who think that if anyone who has/had a penis is absolutely dangerous. What about hermaphrodites???? i reckon that they think that hermaphrodite are dangerous also, because of that extra bit of equipment, (i you know what i mean). People have there opinions, and i have mine, my opinion is that thess so-called "women" should have their rights taken away for a week, and see how they like it.

Trans-folk, are the type that has to go through crap everyday of their lives, because they are "different", they are the vunerable ones, because of the torment from biggoted S$%T-HEADS, that have absolutely no understanding of what the pain is like.

Why can't a MTF shower in a female public shower? they are rightly female, and have more right to be female than anyone else. why can't a MTF use female public toilets? oh, right, because of the thing between the legs... trans-folk are not going to do anybody any harm, they just want to live their lives as they truly are, and to be excepted as their true selves.

But their always is pig-headed snobs, that think that they are better than everyone else.

trans-folk, get more crap, killed, tortured, made out to be a freak, picked on because they are "outside", the stupid "binary" gender system.

women, are NOT the only vunerable ones.

we need the protection, and quite a bit more.

natascha

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Do you see "Male Masculunity Groups" out there, that yap and about FTM Transsexuals???????????

I DONT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I believe we've always known there are radical feminists out there who, as some have

pointed out, are so insecure in their own skins that they are in need of an easy target.

What troubles me most is that they have access to the deliberations of a committee

running under the banner of the United Nations. If there is any comfort it is in knowing

that virtually no one knows or cares what the United Nations is on anything. For example,

I can't see that the UN's policies on human rights ... isn't this what it is all about ... have

had virtually no effect on the policies or laws of any country?

As for the two writers of the article, I only feel something of a sense of pity in that they

are so out of touch with the gradual but unstoppable movement in America toward

making one's gender a matter of self-identification rather than the X on their birth

certificate. The fight won't be easy, but it is curious that at least 2 self-proclaimed

feminists find themselves in alignment with the extremes on both the right and left.

Perhaps they are uptight about the idea of a MTF using the stall next to them in the

ladies room, but the fact of the matter is that the MTFs I know and have known simply

want to take of business and get the heck out of there without some fool calling a

security guard or cop. What is the benefit in causing a ruckus in that venue? And

for that matter, when is the last time anyone heard of an MTF molesting, let alone

raping, a GG in a public restroom? I challenge the insecure GGs to provide evidence

that MTFs are a hazard in a public restroom. More likely GGs threaten the safety

and wellbeing of the MTF.

Finally, kudos to the poster who pointed out that FTMs don't seem to draw the raise

the same fears and angst as MTFs. To be downright silly, perhaps we should ask the

UN to defer on any decision regarding transsexuals until GMs have indicated their

objections to a trans man using a men's room.

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