Other Religions And Beliefs ?

[Guest Priestess Jean]

Greetings to all.

I've just written to Laura about this, but I also thought it deserved a post.

This is concerning the title of the category... "Other Religions and Beliefs".

One might wonder what that means, and since Laura began the posting

with a definition of atheism, I take it that's the focus here. Golden Kirbichu

pointed out that atheism, by definition, is an absense of belief. Technically

that is correct, however in my experience, I have found that atheists and

agnostics sometimes do have a form of sprituality... Pantheism might be

an example...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism

Forgive me if I over-simplifiy or misrepresent anyones's beliefs, but as I

understand it, this means a special reverence for the Earth and all living

creatures... indeed, even for the universe itself. While no god is involved,

the belief is clearly spiritual... and there other examples, I'm sure.

Therefore, I respectfully suggested to Laura that the title of the category

be changed, to "Non-Deistic Spirituality". I think that covers it well, and

hopefully is in keeping with her intentions.

As to religions which are not already listed, I suppose a category called

"Other Religions" might then be used for that, although I don't think that

will probably ever be needed... we could just wait and see.

Best wishes,

Jean

[Guest Alicia]

I disagree.

Having a look at the spirituality forum, I see a category for:

• Wicca
  
• Christianity
  
• 2 Spirit
  
• Judaism
  
• Islam
  
• Buddhism
  
• Hinduism
  

and this category. If this section was renamed to "Non-Deistic Spirituality" that would change this one and add another category. I believe neither would be heavily used. Also considering the huge array of religions out there this category would exclude many religions such as:

• Sikhism
  
• Gnosticism
  
• Zoroastrianism
  
• Shinto
  

To name but a few.

Despite the large user base this website has I am not certain we need to divide this area up anymore.

(note: I know my opinion is not of huge importance and the ultimate decision comes down to the administrators)

[Guest Zenda]

Kia Ora Jean & Alica,

There are as many beliefs[and possible as many religions] as there are people on the planet

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belief

Perhaps both definitions should have been part of the introduction to stop any confusion...However, personally I think the way Laura has set it up works well...

Metta Jendar

[Guest Zenda]

Kia Ora,

I forgot to add http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirituality to the definitions...

Metta Jendar

[Guest]

One of the most important concepts here is to allow every one a voice. The transgender Community is very diverse with many groups totally different from each other. The fact that we basically get along in here is a tribute to our users. I have to look at the Bigger Picture as a site owner. While I never expected this to become an International site it has in a huge way. The internet has shrunk the world. When I look at the statistics here I am humbled. People visit here from every country in the world including China, India, Cuba and all the Middle Eastern countries including Iran, Israel and Lebanon. This is amazing for an English only speaking site. An outside observer of the forums wouldn't realize our scope from our posts though. Why? Some groups don't feel comfortable enough to post yet and I am working hard to change that. Some of that may be the language barrier. Some people need encouragement to stick their toe in and test the water. Others dive right in. The spirituality forums are an attempt to reach out to all our Trangender brothers and sisters from around the world. As they are new there are adjustments to make. Sometimes we take religious freedom for granted. Yet their are many countries where it is risky to practice what you believe. Many here have been supressed by their own religions. Understandably many have lost faith. I've always believed that Transition is the perfect time to reshape oneself internally, not just for physical change. You can build the person you wish to become. Spirituality may be a part of that for some. This is why I invited Pastor Pam for the Christian forum as well as other transgender friendly representatives from other religions here. Some may want to go back to their beliefs and others may choose another religion or spiritual plain. Within reason I want to include everyone including those who don't believe in anything. All will have a voice. At the same time I realize that religious discussions are one of the biggest causes of flame wars along with politics. That's why we have the rules we have here of respect for all. I know I can't please everyone but because this section is still young I will add a couple of more subforums.

Each category added to the main page slows the forums down while adding subforums does not. if I'd realized that earlier I would have made the Transsexual and transgender categories differently with more subforums and fewer categories. They are too big too change things now though. As we are a community your voices count. So discuss the subforums you feel are needed a little more here and I'll make a decision. 6 million users and still growing. Who would have thought? I think somebody though has to re-estimate how many of us there really are worldwide. 3 million is grossly inaccurate. If I had to guess I'd say 10 million minimum. Then again I've been know to be wrong once....twice... thrice..... O you get the picture :lol:lol .

Laura

[Guest Priestess Jean]

Well, first, let me say that I didn't mean to create any controversy,

but so long as the subject of the organization of the spiritual categories

seems to on the table, let me go ahead and see if I can do anything to

help. I have a lifetime of experience with the study of religion, and I'd

like to think I have a good understanding of the range of beliefs, both

organized and not organized, that exist. I also have a lot of experince

with chat groups, and who uses them... sometimes the cyber-population

does not match the demographics, for example some large groups may

experience language problems on an English website or tend to be less

vocal about their beliefs than others.

I did also write privately to Laura about the Wicca category. Wicca

is a new-age form of witchcraft that is often regarded as Pagan.

More about that in a moment.

Therefore, let me try to give an overall suggestion that incorporates

a complete fix for the problems with the set-up of the categories. As to

who should decide the issue, obviously Laura has the power and from

her posts I think her judgement is likely to be very good.

I think we should consider the popularity and number of users who

are expected to be involved in each category and try to split things

up in an efficient way, yet just because some groups are small we

can't lump them all together merely for convienience either.

First, it's clear we will have a lot of Christians, so they will need a

category of their own. That's obvious. They do have various sects,

so a title like "Christian Religions" seems appropriate.

Second, Judaism is not all that big of a religion however about half of

the world's population of Jewish persons lives in the USA, and I have

found that they tend to be a vocal group, therefore I think that they

should have a category of their own. Again, there are various sects,

so a title like "Judaic Religions" seems good here.

Next, Islam is one of the largestest religions although there is a

substantial language barrier, there are not many TS Moslems,

and they generally don't show up in the quantity you might expect.

However, their religion does not lend itself to combining with any

others, so I believe they will require a category of their own, which

I don't expect will get much use, but technically has to be there.

Again there are several sects, so "Islamic Religions" would be a

good title for that group.

Now as to Hindus and Buddhists... They are also not expected to

have many members, and because they co-exist quite well with

each other in places like India, and share many beliefs, Karma,

re-incarnation, etc, they could probably be combined under some

title like "Eastern Religions"... and that would pick up some of the

other more obscure religions from that area of the world, as well.

Next, there is no such religion as "Two-Spirit". Native American

spirituality is diverse... Two-Spirits (transgenders) have often

functioned as Shamans within most tribes, but that's not actually

a title for any religion. I can also tell you that the number of Native

Americans who do public discussion is extreemly small and most

tribes each have somewhat different beliefs. This also goes for

Native peoples the world over. In my experience they are often

lumped into the Pagan community, where they are well received

and seem to do well.

The Pagan community encompasses all pre-Christian traditions

such as Native spirituality, polytheistism, Goddess worship, and

Wicca. It is a very diverse but compatible group, and since that's

my group, I can personally guarantee you that one category for

us will be fine. That's the normal proceedure you will find on most

chat groups. I would call the category "Pagan Religions".

Finally we come to those persons who have a spirituality of some

sort, such as Pantheism, which involves no gods or supernatural

entities. This includes various types of atheists and philosophical

individuals. Many people think all atheists have no beliefs at all,

but it's not true... and in fact I have been suprised at the large

number of people today who identify as "spiritual atheists" of one

type of another. Therefore I realize they need a category, which

I suggest calling "Non-Deistic Spirituality".

Some people might feel that a final category of "All Others"

would finish the job, but I recommend against that. It's too vague,

and lumping any unusual belief systems that have not been already

covered into some catch-all category is probably a mistake. I would

just wait and see if the day ever comes when somebody says, hey,

my religion doesn't fit any of your existing categories, and handle

it then... but I really don't think that will ever happen.

So there's my suggestion.... Just to re-cap, here's the list:

Christian Religions

Judaic Religions

Islamic Religions

Eastern Religions

Pagan Religions

Non-Deistic Spirituality

That's 6 categories, which is actually 2 less than we already have.

I hope people will find that to be very well organized and simple,

and consider the fact that being too picky can make any suituation

into a frustrating and overcomplex nuisance.... certainly a quick,

smooth resoultion is more desirable, and would speak very well

for the group.

Best wishes to all, and Many Blessings,

Jean

[Guest]

Well, first, let me say that I didn't mean to create any controversy, but so long as the subject of the organization of the spiritual categories

seems to on the table, let me go ahead and see if I can do anything to help.

No problem, I asked for input. Organization is important on a large site. As I said when I built the site 4 years ago I never expected to be this size let alone have an International audience. If I knew then what I know now I would've organized things differently. Certainly i don't want to repeat my mistakes. I appreciate your input and what others have to say as well. It's far easier to chnage or adjust now than it would be a year from now.

Next, Islam is one of the largestest religions although there is a substantial language barrier, there are not many TS Moslems, and they generally don't show up in the quantity you might expect.

.

Acutually that's the point I made earlier the forum posts don't at all reflect everyone who is here reading them. My site statistics though do. Visitors from Middle Eastern countries have dramatically increased especially since the Spirituality forums went up. I don't know for sure that's the reason but supect it could be as it's the only big site change. It's not just one or two either, 1124 in a week including Iran. We actually have several who are in transition here along with 5 teens who are transitioning in school in the USA. This presents problems because the sex's can't intermingle socially. This makes it difficult in a chat setting to get support. Frequently a female moderator is requested from MTF's of Islamic Faith. Do I make a Muslim Men and Muslim women's forum or would that be an insult? I don't know the answers, though I would like to. Certainly i want to accomodate everyone within reason. Anyway they are here and i want to make them comfortable enough to post. We also have several Native Americans here. We take a lot for granted in the west that everyone is free to speak their mind. Iran for instance is the only Middle Eastern country to grant rights to Transsexuals by Edict. However some Gay men who are NOT transgender are given the choice to become women or be put to death so in effect it creates a few transgender people. Gays are killed in several countries. We don't realize how lucky we are.

Anyway I am considering your request. If anyone objects now is the time to speak up. I likley won't drop anything but may add a couple of subforums.

Laura

[Guest Zenda]

Well, first, let me say that I didn't mean to create any controversy,

but so long as the subject of the organization of the spiritual categories

seems to on the table, let me go ahead and see if I can do anything to

help. I have a lifetime of experience with the study of religion, and I'd

like to think I have a good understanding of the range of beliefs, both

organized and not organized, that exist. I also have a lot of experince

with chat groups, and who uses them... sometimes the cyber-population

does not match the demographics, for example some large groups may

experience language problems on an English website or tend to be less

vocal about their beliefs than others.

I did also write privately to Laura about the Wicca category. Wicca

is a new-age form of witchcraft that is often regarded as Pagan.

More about that in a moment.

Therefore, let me try to give an overall suggestion that incorporates

a complete fix for the problems with the set-up of the categories. As to

who should decide the issue, obviously Laura has the power and from

her posts I think her judgement is likely to be very good.

I think we should consider the popularity and number of users who

are expected to be involved in each category and try to split things

up in an efficient way, yet just because some groups are small we

can't lump them all together merely for convienience either.

First, it's clear we will have a lot of Christians, so they will need a

category of their own. That's obvious. They do have various sects,

so a title like "Christian Religions" seems appropriate.

Second, Judaism is not all that big of a religion however about half of

the world's population of Jewish persons lives in the USA, and I have

found that they tend to be a vocal group, therefore I think that they

should have a category of their own. Again, there are various sects,

so a title like "Judaic Religions" seems good here.

Next, Islam is one of the largestest religions although there is a

substantial language barrier, there are not many TS Moslems,

and they generally don't show up in the quantity you might expect.

However, their religion does not lend itself to combining with any

others, so I believe they will require a category of their own, which

I don't expect will get much use, but technically has to be there.

Again there are several sects, so "Islamic Religions" would be a

good title for that group.

Now as to Hindus and Buddhists... They are also not expected to

have many members, and because they co-exist quite well with

each other in places like India, and share many beliefs, Karma,

re-incarnation, etc, they could probably be combined under some

title like "Eastern Religions"... and that would pick up some of the

other more obscure religions from that area of the world, as well.

Next, there is no such religion as "Two-Spirit". Native American

spirituality is diverse... Two-Spirits (transgenders) have often

functioned as Shamans within most tribes, but that's not actually

a title for any religion. I can also tell you that the number of Native

Americans who do public discussion is extreemly small and most

tribes each have somewhat different beliefs. This also goes for

Native peoples the world over. In my experience they are often

lumped into the Pagan community, where they are well received

and seem to do well.

The Pagan community encompasses all pre-Christian traditions

such as Native spirituality, polytheistism, Goddess worship, and

Wicca. It is a very diverse but compatible group, and since that's

my group, I can personally guarantee you that one category for

us will be fine. That's the normal proceedure you will find on most

chat groups. I would call the category "Pagan Religions".

Finally we come to those persons who have a spirituality of some

sort, such as Pantheism, which involves no gods or supernatural

entities. This includes various types of atheists and philosophical

individuals. Many people think all atheists have no beliefs at all,

but it's not true... and in fact I have been suprised at the large

number of people today who identify as "spiritual atheists" of one

type of another. Therefore I realize they need a category, which

I suggest calling "Non-Deistic Spirituality".

Some people might feel that a final category of "All Others"

would finish the job, but I recommend against that. It's too vague,

and lumping any unusual belief systems that have not been already

covered into some catch-all category is probably a mistake. I would

just wait and see if the day ever comes when somebody says, hey,

my religion doesn't fit any of your existing categories, and handle

it then... but I really don't think that will ever happen.

So there's my suggestion.... Just to re-cap, here's the list:

Christian Religions

Judaic Religions

Islamic Religions

Eastern Religions

Pagan Religions

Non-Deistic Spirituality

That's 6 categories, which is actually 2 less than we already have.

I hope people will find that to be very well organized and simple,

and consider the fact that being too picky can make any suituation

into a frustrating and overcomplex nuisance.... certainly a quick,

smooth resoultion is more desirable, and would speak very well

for the group.

Best wishes to all, and Many Blessings,

Jean

Kia Ora Jean,

You are right just like Christianity, Judism and Islam have much in common[the one god and worship of that god] so does Hinduism and Buddhism regarding certain beliefs-karma and being 'reborn'...however even though the Buddha was born into an Hindu family and was taught by Hindu holy men from a young age[just like Jesus was a Jew and was brouht up in the Jewish faith] a number of major changes took place as the Buddha developed 'mindfulness', example the Buddhist concept of 'rebirth' and Hindu 'reincarnation' are not the same thing...

This 'link' will give you a better understanding of the differences between Buddhism and Hinduism...

http://www.essortment.com/all/differencesbetw_rrax.htm

The most important difference is Hinduism is a 'polytheistic' religion and having a 'soul'is part of their belief.... Buddhism is a 'non' theistic belief system and the concept of a 'soul' is foreign...Buddhism would fit more in the line of 'non deistic spiritualty'...

There is no worship of any type of god in Buddhism...The images/statues in Buddhism are 'not' actual gods to be worship[that sadly is a common misconception that many in the west have]...It's what they 'represent' [example compassion-mercy-loving kindness etc] they are to 'remind' a person that they too are capable of expressing them towards other sentient beings especially during 'meditation'...

Just thought you would like to know...

Metta Jendar

'

[Guest]

I added the requested forums but did not change the "Other" forum. It remains unchanged. I changed the Wiccan subforum to pagan religions and added a wiccan subforum. I did add "Non-Deistic Spirituality" as a seperate forum.

Laura

[Guest TroyGD]

I added the requested forums but did not change the "Other" forum. It remains unchanged. I changed the Wiccan subforum to pagan religions and added a wiccan subforum. I did add "Non-Deistic Spirituality" as a seperate forum.

Laura

I practice Traditional African religion I started out with the basics of wicca and that lead me to where I am now. For those who don't know Traditional African Religion is what the slaves were practicing before they were brought over to America. Which later became known as Voodoo.