Transgendered And Intelligent

[Guest NickSister]

I've been reading on a lot of sites that suggests transgendered individuals are often more intelligently gifted than your common garden variety person (not that anyone should be considered garden variety). Is this actually true, does anyone have any links or pointers to studies that have found this to be true or is it all based on anecdotal evidence?

[pennyjane]

I've been reading on a lot of sites that suggests transgendered individuals are often more intelligently gifted than your common garden variety person (not that anyone should be considered garden variety). Is this actually true, does anyone have any links or pointers to studies that have found this to be true or is it all based on anecdotal evidence?

hi nick. all i have is anecdotal, but from some of the people i've seen on this forum, i would not be at all surprised if that proved out to be true. lotsa love and hope, pj

[Guest karen_h]

boo boolets go get that picinic basket we smarted than the average bear

[Guest NickSister]

I always knows I have good smarts. I speak good england.

[Guest Marco]

i think you may have a point about that intelligence thing. almost all the trans people i know are exceedingly intelligent and somewhat more mature than their age. apparently i'm also rather academically gifted[could've fooled me]. apparently i have an above average IQ on an adult test[i'm 13.]

but no matter what the test says i'm pretty sure i'm rather stupid. ok i'm rambling now. but most of the trans people i know are very smart.

[Guest Codie]

I don't know if transgendered people are necessarily more intelligent, but if it seems that way, maybe it's because transgendered people tend to use the intellgence they have more. Dealing with the anxiety and depression people feel towards their gender, trying to take up a role in life thats completely unnatural to you, wondering if it's all just some kind of phase, trying to supress or find a way around the feelings you have, deciding to come out, how and when to do it, figuring out what you are, a man, a women, somewhere inbetween, something else, figuring out how you want to fit into society, figuring out how you can get to the roll in society you're comfortable with, all the stress that you can encounter when transitioning like harasment, or people refusing to accept you for what you are. Not everyone worries about everything I listed, and not all of it is specific to transgendered people, but there are life altering deccisions to think about, and a lot of stress and anxiety over things that a lot of other people probably never have to worry much, or at all about. Maybe being in a position where we have to think deeply about so much, forces us to use more of the intelligence we're born with.

[Guest CharlieRose]

I always knows I have good smarts. I speak good england.

No, you speak good american! (It always bugs me when people are stupid enough to say that. *sigh* My country... It's only half of it, though)

Perhaps they are, though... Not innately, but people who realize and admit that they are transsexual, especially at an earlier age might be more intelligent/mature because it requires introspection to come to that conclusion.

[Guest silverpetals]

i think i read somewhere that gay people have an iq of 3 above average. trans people are 5 above, apparently.

so if an iq test is really an accurate measure of intelligence, then on average i suppose so

[Guest GoldenKirbichu]

I would say that because of the mental gymnastics we end up having to do, our brains are, on average, somewhat more developed than Average Joe and Jane.

[Guest brandt]

i hear or read before that transgendered people are more intelligent than the average person because i guess we could use each sides of our brain. that since we have knowledge of one sex that you probably been living for quite a while and aquire knowledge from the other sex. i might be getting my facts wrong but yeah. its something like that. but i wouldnt be surprised that we are intelligent. i think everyone on here are very intelligent enough. and very talented.

[Guest o0tg0o]

i had an IQ of 180 when I was 8.... they tested me because they thought I was retarded. lol. Little did they know, I was daydreaming about being a girl. ^^

[Guest savagedm]

I don't know if transgendered people are necessarily more intelligent, but if it seems that way, maybe it's because transgendered people tend to use the intellgence they have more. Dealing with the anxiety and depression people feel towards their gender, trying to take up a role in life thats completely unnatural to you, wondering if it's all just some kind of phase, trying to supress or find a way around the feelings you have, deciding to come out, how and when to do it, figuring out what you are, a man, a women, somewhere inbetween, something else, figuring out how you want to fit into society, figuring out how you can get to the roll in society you're comfortable with, all the stress that you can encounter when transitioning like harasment, or people refusing to accept you for what you are. Not everyone worries about everything I listed, and not all of it is specific to transgendered people, but there are life altering deccisions to think about, and a lot of stress and anxiety over things that a lot of other people probably never have to worry much, or at all about. Maybe being in a position where we have to think deeply about so much, forces us to use more of the intelligence we're born with.

I believe that Codie hit the nail on the head with this comment. In continuance of what was said, I believe that anyone with conflicting gender issues tend to be of above average intelligence. I cannot say the same for the LGB community because well, I dont know many of them and I am never one to jump to conclusions like this. But anyways, I believe we tend to be more intelligent because we are forced to answer a good deal of questions about ourselves on our own. The fear of societal rejection is so great that many of us often turn to the internet, library, or other sources of information regarding what we "are" exactly. Another reason I can offer up is that we have so much going on in our brain about our gender issues that our mind is better adjusted to higher learning than most "normal" people.

Who knows if any of this is true, for all we know at this point it could have nothing with us being TG/TV, where it is simply a rare by-product of our intelligence. We do know that this phenomena has occurred since well pretty much recorded history began. I would really enjoy reading or even being involved in a scientific study regarding this question.

[Guest Leah1026]

I've never heard of any real studies being done either. All of what I've read seems anecdotal. That said, at Transsexual.org I read that GLB people are one standard deviation above the norm and that people born transsexual are two standard deviations above the norm (130). (The norm being 100) If I remember correctly, and it was a looonnngg time ago, I tested out at 129 or almost exactly two standard deviations above the norm. Hmmmm.

But does any of this really matter? It doesn't stop people from discriminating against us. And if you play this card chances are a cisgendered person might think you were being arrogant or something. And we don't need any more problems than we already have. Is it me or has transitioning got more difficult in some ways in the last few years? I'm hoping that that's because we are finally starting to get taken seriously by the public and our detractors are pulling out all the stops trying to confuse things and keep us in our place. Hopefully with a new administration in office in 2009 things will improve.

Sorry for getting off topic and being US centric.

[Guest savagedm]

I've never heard of any real studies being done either. All of what I've read seems anecdotal. That said, at Transsexual.org I read that GLB people are one standard deviation above the norm and that people born transsexual are two standard deviations above the norm (130). (The norm being 100) If I remember correctly, and it was a looonnngg time ago, I tested out at 129 or almost exactly two standard deviations above the norm. Hmmmm.

But does any of this really matter? It doesn't stop people from discriminating against us. And if you play this card chances are a cisgendered person might think you were being arrogant or something. And we don't need any more problems than we already have. Is it me or has transitioning got more difficult in some ways in the last few years? I'm hoping that that's because we are finally starting to get taken seriously by the public and our detractors are pulling out all the stops trying to confuse things and keep us in our place. Hopefully with a new administration in office in 2009 things will improve.

Sorry for getting off topic and being US centric.

Hah Leah, I think just as political as you most of the time, dont worry about it... you are touching on a very important topic regardless. But yeah, in IQ tests I've taken I tested at the MINIMUM 2 standard deviations above norm. But keep in mind... IQ IS NOT A MEASURE OF SUCCESS IN LIFE. I have an uncle whose IQ is somewhere near 180. He is probably one of the smartest men I know. He is also a full time truck driver because he has no drive to do anything with his life other than eat, sleep, and not be bothered by the world.

[Guest Tabe]

I've personally been extremely interested in this particular phenomena. What I commonly hear is that the GLB community tests around 120 on IQ tests and that the Trans community tests about 140. The numbers themselves aren't particularly important, but the fact that there is a link at all really piques my interest.

Throughout history, increased intelligence/IQ leads to a drastic increase in the chance of mental ilness (NO, I'm not calling this a mental illness, just hear me out here). Considering that for the grand majority of people, gender, sexual orientation, and general IQ seem to all be set before birth, I don't think it's too far to stretch that it may all be related. All three are linked to brain chemistry--like it or not, everyone's perceptions of themselves are based on the electrical signals your brain fires/recieves and the chemicals (natural or otherwise) that effect them.

I've often wondered if high intelligence has... side effects. Of course not all all effects would be the same; it's not like your IQ is some type of test for gender or anything. But IQ is a relatively strong indicator of various mental anomalies. I'd love to see if there was a way to study this more in-depth...

[Guest Zabrak]

i had an IQ of 180 when I was 8.... they tested me because they thought I was retarded. lol. Little did they know, I was daydreaming about being a girl. ^^

This is why I enjoy browsing this forum once in awhile.

They tested me too because they thought I was stupid. It turns out one side of my brain is 'normal' and the other is above genius. The guy stared dumbfounded at me after the tests.

[Guest Dutchie]

Thanks Zabrak, for pulling this one up to attention levels again.

I don't know if the statements made that on average... I heard that...

What I see is that there is a variety of people with gender issues.

Fact is that when someone is intelligent, they are more likely to be disturbed by psychological imbalances, since they tend to think more and notice more about themselves.

Intelligent people question the things in life and what surrounds them... (Note that I'm not using IQ!)

People who walk through life without wondering about anything, tend to be undisturbed by issues. (Exceptions DO exist).

Now that was the general population...

LGBTs? Like what was said before about average... So that means there are people above average (a few more) than below... Other than that it's saying nothing. When you drag 100,000 people off the street, there should be some from the LGBT community, those some might or might not have an above average IQ. If you do the same sample again a month later with 100,000 people you might reach a different conclusion. We are humans, each with it's own characteristics. We aren't clones, we aren't machines and we aren't standardized. Statistics mean nothing!

I have an uncle whose IQ is somewhere near 180. He is probably one of the smartest men I know. He is also a full time truck driver because he has no drive to do anything with his life other than eat, sleep, and not be bothered by the world.

Actually that isn't very strange. I can't be bothered about what is happening in the world either. The world is being screwed by uninformed egoistic greedy people. They wont listen to "sensible" people (and I'm not claiming to be a sensible one)...

In the same way that governments try to keep us stupid too! (Censored news, monitoring behavior, etc.)

Don't tell me it isn't happening, I have seen proof of it. I was following Reuters news feeds when working for national radio/tv. I know some Big things were not making it due to policy! "Do not scare the people." Anyway, I'll better go back under my rock, it's warm, comfy and the coffee is great.

I've often wondered if high intelligence has... side effects. Of course not all all effects would be the same; it's not like your IQ is some type of test for gender or anything. But IQ is a relatively strong indicator of various mental anomalies. I'd love to see if there was a way to study this more in-depth...

I have wondered about the same and all I could find at the time was that there is a correlation between certain hereditary mental illnesses and high intelligence. Usually that portrays itself in idiot savants or in the opposite like Albert Einstein. (Did you know he had a big number of identical suits and shirts in his wardrobe to avoid the difficulties of choosing??)

Now it is indeed coffee time for me!

[Guest Jaquie Lynn]

I've been reading on a lot of sites that suggests transgendered individuals are often more intelligently gifted than your common garden variety person (not that anyone should be considered garden variety). Is this actually true, does anyone have any links or pointers to studies that have found this to be true or is it all based on anecdotal evidence?

I cannot say for others but I can say this, It takes a highly evolved sense of awareness to recognize the inner desires of the mind and act on them without going over the deep end. Most people just go to the refrigerator a dozen times thinking it will somehow magically change inside. The intelectual mind tries something new and or different. Think for a moment what it takes to master the desires and emotions of both sexes, keep them straight in your head, and still function in society as one or both. I have heard it said on many occassions, when your poor your crazy, when you are rich, you are excentric! The CD, Transgender, Transexual are not crazy. They have recognized something in their Phsychy and done something about it. Even if Society has not grown enough mentaly to accept it!

(From personal experience) I have been open in relationships about CD and Transgender issues and desires. At first it is a novelty and or a turn on. Then an insecurity sets in, your more emotionaly effeminate/secure than I am? SO what, it is not a contest? I know women that are hardcore bikers and I know men that are simply prissy! There is no mold, we are all individuals and that, in its self is what makes life enjoyable. We, and I mean the Gender Dysphoric, such as I am; Are a breath of fresh air in my book. We lack the normal mental constraints of the mind that "Normal" People suffer from where sexuality is concerned! If I were to become a female over night, I would enjoy the same things I do today. I would simply enjoy them as a female.

I have owned five businesses and did 10 years in the service. I was good at whatever I chose to do! Because I am confident in my ability to learn and master anything I chose to do. However, when it comes to Gender Dysphoria it is less a mastery of your ablities as it is an understanding, acceptance, and the abilty to blend into society without feeling like you have a purple horn growing out of your forehead, and this is quite a challenge. Intellegence is learned, but, if a person is mentally closed off there will be little if not Zero learned. I guess what I am saying is, it is as much a matter of keeping an open mind as it is being intellegent enough to accept it, and carry on in a manner that is not out of the ordinary, Being relaxed with who and what you are.

Jaquie Lynn

[Sally]

It is just possible that all of the answers are right - it must require intelligence to discover a gender disorder at such an early age as most of us do - and a good bit more to deal with it, either living the life that others expect or transitioning to our own life requires a lot of thought.

Then there is the whole idea of 'use it or lose it', we tend to use our brains more - both sides - and the exercise is bound to show in intelligence and creativity - again both sides.

We need to view ourselves as special people and not defective people. Once we truely believe that it will be easier to convence others!

Go forth my brothers and sisters and possitively out think them all!

Love and a great deal of thought,

Sally

[Guest Elizabeth K]

Hello Girls and Guys

Hey - hey - Read through what is said on this topic - no dummies here! Read the presentation - great arguements, splendid logic, brilliant observations.

I think we just proved the theory, by discussing it

And I was challaneged for the source in my post "dumbing down" - (no that is not self promotion) when I said something like, "the literature says transgender people seem to be more intelligent." I am almost sure it was that troublemaker Evan who challanged, but I might be wrong.

Anyway - I KNOW I read that statement in several books on transsexuallity and gender dysphoria. I have started looking for the exact source I found that statement - but haven't located it yet.

There were also references to professions having a high incidence of trangenderism, especially the highly creative ones. I believe I saw that computer engineers were the highest profession with transsexual people. (ah let me find that too - please don't quote until I get it verified). Years ago I read engineers were a prime group to search for cross dressing - hummmm... sounds contrived. Being an engineer - I don't SEE many here at the office with their panty lines showing, but I really am not in the habit of looking - grin.

Besides, do you remember the joke, Question: "what do you call a book with all blank pages?" Answer: "Fashion Tips from Engineers."

So - to all my fellow gender dysphoric genuises - you be smart peoples- ya'll.

Hey - maybe tis because we see both sides now (now who sang that?)

[Guest Jaquie Lynn]

I read about Chimera Syndrome, Symbiotic single gender Twins Disorder, which is very similar to Chimera Syndrome and the story ended with this pearl of life acceptance and wisdom. The Mesopotaminans, Egyptians, Greeks, and Romans had Marriage Counselors, so did the American Indians of the Central and Western US. And you might be suprised to know, Gender benders, Gender Dysphoric, and Trans Genderism was around then!! They were considered God's in some Ancient SAocieties and so were sought out for advice in the Gender Biased difficulties in life and marriage in the Ancient World.

Who better to help a couple that is having problems than a person that is in effect both both sexes in one body. Creativity is prominant on the right side of the brain, I think. And Pragmatic is on the left. 5% of the population, in general terms are capable of going back and forth. There seems to be a growing awareness and therefore the numbers might be larger when the tapping into both sides of the brain are concerned. I have always been very creative and now I am a writer of fiction/fantasy novels, action/adventure novels, over 100 Poems, short stories and articles of current human interest. I owned a Custom Leather Manufacturing business, and a cabinet company. Serious creativing required!

I see the Gender Dysphoric, TG, Cd Community as a venue for a new awareness in human evolution. Not that it lends itself to Androginy but that it bridges the gap between Alpa and Omega!

Jaquie Lynn

[Guest Jaquie Lynn]

I've personally been extremely interested in this particular phenomena. What I commonly hear is that the GLB community tests around 120 on IQ tests and that the Trans community tests about 140. The numbers themselves aren't particularly important, but the fact that there is a link at all really piques my interest.

Throughout history, increased intelligence/IQ leads to a drastic increase in the chance of mental ilness (NO, I'm not calling this a mental illness, just hear me out here). Considering that for the grand majority of people, gender, sexual orientation, and general IQ seem to all be set before birth, I don't think it's too far to stretch that it may all be related. All three are linked to brain chemistry--like it or not, everyone's perceptions of themselves are based on the electrical signals your brain fires/recieves and the chemicals (natural or otherwise) that effect them.

I've often wondered if high intelligence has... side effects. Of course not all all effects would be the same; it's not like your IQ is some type of test for gender or anything. But IQ is a relatively strong indicator of various mental anomalies. I'd love to see if there was a way to study this more in-depth...

I must concede, I tested at 134, after my medical discharge from the service. They wanted to see if I could be retrained to be something besides and EWngineer, Diesel Mechanic, EMT, Life Saving Swimmer, Combat Boat Engineer, Boarding Officer, Coxswain, Radar, Radio operator, yaddaaaa yaaddaaa yadddaaaa. Their reasoning was offensinsive, and the result were predictable. If I could train and learn every job on the ship then it would make sense that I could learn another trade!

Jaquie Lynn

[Sally]

I was always in trouble at school about a C student then we'd take a test for your ranking in your grade level - I was always number one in the school! IQ over 145 and bored as heck! They never take bordom into account on your grades. I was readying at the 7th grade level when I started to school - my older sister's fault, she wanted to learn to reada and brought 'the baby' with her. I was about 3 when I first started to read (my mother was an English major in college and loved to read) so I just kept pulling ahead of the class. I got inot trouble when I refused to check a book out of the elementary school library for a book report - they didn't like the phrase, "all that's in there are baby books!"

Big fan of Poe and Sir Arthur Cannon Doyle in those days!

We may not be more intelligent, but we seem to apply ourselves to whatever interests us (and ignore the rest)!

Love ya,

Sally

[Guest Evan_J]

And I was challaneged for the source in my post "dumbing down" - (no that is not self promotion) when I said something like, "the literature says transgender people seem to be more intelligent." I am almost sure it was that troublemaker Evan who challanged, but I might be wrong.

**Chuckles** Actually, what I did was plead the 5th and disavow all knowledge lol

ROFL

First of all, I want that warning label Dutchie. I just need to "tweek" it just a little bit for my purposes LOL.

On the other matter.....[Delivers the official statement] I refuse to in any way implicate myself or otherwise cast any question upon the character of my brothers. These accusations exist almost exclusively with regard to the biomales, a subsect that is on the verge of reconfiguration by the transmen. There are of course some presumable similarities but these exist purely for purposes of future study on our part. (cough)

Resident Sexist with just enough chivalry to make it work.

....albiet facetiously, but that's what I did.

Looking at transgender folk as a whole however (as opposed to being asked to admit to whether or not males require females to dumb down....ahem) Then I certainly will at least entertain that notion.

<---Mr. technical

[Guest Jo-I-Dunno]

i think i read somewhere that gay people have an iq of 3 above average. trans people are 5 above, apparently.

so if an iq test is really an accurate measure of intelligence, then on average i suppose so

Imagine how smart people who want to change species are!

It's hard to say. I do believe I'm more intelligent than my parents, but what teenager doesn't? Apparently, though, they agree.

Ever since I can remember, I felt more intelligent than my peers. My first few teachers thought I was learning disabled (mostly because I hated reading), but my 2nd grade teacher was a PhD in I forget what, and she could tell that I just learned differently. I've been in accelerated math programs ever since.

I'm above average in general, but really excel in math. I can just tell in math class by the types of questions other people ask the teacher and how the teacher responds, that our minds are just working differently. Most people are trying to memorize equations and methods, while I'm going through, making connections to things I already know and explaining things to myself.

If we think we belong to a gender other than our birth sex, our brains are probably different. Different enough to affect intelligence? Maybe.