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KieranD

Transition and the job hunt (unemployed again) the sequal

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KieranD

Hello. I've been identifying as genderqueer but presenting as male in the binary world for years. I've been on hormones for about a year and a half, still seen as female.

I lost my job about a month ago because the company went out of business. I'm back on the job hunt but still am unsure on how to deal with my gender. My state and area still lacks any sort of transgender protections. I did work for a retail store with transgender protections and faced discrimination. Because of my experiences with previous jobs and my gender, I've got a lot of anxiety to deal with. I feel like finding a job and working as male would be almost the last step in my transition. I would just need my gender marker and name change (I'm still unsure of a middle name).

So, what the heck do I do? Use my preferred name on my resume? (hypothetical initial of legal name being "Z") Write Z "Kieran" Last name? Full first name "Kieran" Last name? "Kieran" last name? Do I not disclose until the interview? Do I wait for a job offer? How do you disclose, and who do you disclose to?

This whole situation is something I still can't figure out. I sort of figured that by now I'd be in a better situation in terms of my social transition where it wouldn't be something to be concerned about. I thought I'd be seen as male almost all the time, have my name change, and maybe my gender marker change by now.

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Guest Kael147

Hey Kieran,

I have no idea what your laws in your state are about doing gender marker changes and working under "nickname". Does your SSN say your gender? I have no idea. My Province you have to have surgery and a period of time as the other gender before they let you change your gender marker. We are required to work as the opposite gender - it is kind of crazy. I work in a profession that won't let me work under another name, so ... I'm not sure what I'll do otherwise!

I know I'm not much of a help. Personally I intend of going by Kael everywhere soon regardless of how I look or how I'm percieved. I'm so not about it!

Anyway, I hope you can figure this out and hopefully someone can give you some better advice!

Kael

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MackenzieB

I would definitely use my legal name. A lot of companies run some sort of background check and if they were to fiind out that you used something other than a legal name might raise a flag for them. You can always call a company's HR dept and inquire about their diversity policy. Some even post it on a website.

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KieranD

I would definitely use my legal name. A lot of companies run some sort of background check and if they were to fiind out that you used something other than a legal name might raise a flag for them. You can always call a company's HR dept and inquire about their diversity policy. Some even post it on a website.

Yea, I did face discrimination for what I believe to be related to being transgender at a workplace that said that transgender people have protections. I don't exactly see it as a good indication of acceptance of trans people.

Are background checks often run once a company sees an application or resume?

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KieranD

So, I sent out my resume using just the first initial of my preferred name and my last name. I sent it to a bunch of different places, and haven't received any e-mails or anything in response yet. None of these places were listed as being LGBT friendly or anything, but were related to the kind of work I want to do as a career and have experience with.

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Paula ult

I am also looking for a part time job since i was laid off 6 weeks ago ,being 60 years old i doubt i will find many companies that will want to hire me, most companies do applications online, since i am post op and all my documentation is changed i apply as female, however a couple companies have asked for previous names, so i put my old name on the application, if a company looks hard enough they can find your previous name and gender, so it is best not to lie or omit information, these days they even look to see if you have a Facebook page to see who your friends are ans groups you belong to

Paula

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KieranD

I am also looking for a part time job since i was laid off 6 weeks ago ,being 60 years old i doubt i will find many companies that will want to hire me, most companies do applications online, since i am post op and all my documentation is changed i apply as female, however a couple companies have asked for previous names, so i put my old name on the application, if a company looks hard enough they can find your previous name and gender, so it is best not to lie or omit information, these days they even look to see if you have a Facebook page to see who your friends are ans groups you belong to

Paula

I haven't changed my name...but a lot of applications don't ask for previous names. For me, it was just submitting a resume and wanting a place that's willing to work with my gender and name stuff. It's been hectic trying to navigate it all.

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Carolyn Marie

There is a risk in not being completely accurate on your application, Kieran. Companies these days have multiple apps for each open position, sometimes hundreds of apps. Give a company a reason to doubt you, and they will. If they consider hiring you, they will run your social security number. If the names don't match, or there are other irregularities, it will come out, and they may not hire you. The SS Administration won't send a "mismatch" letter over your gender anymore, but they will regarding a name.

As difficult as coming out on the job is, at least you have a chance of being retained. Not disclose facts, or give conflicting information about your ID, and your chance goes down to zero. It's up to you.

HUGS

Carolyn Marie

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KieranD

There is a risk in not being completely accurate on your application, Kieran. Companies these days have multiple apps for each open position, sometimes hundreds of apps. Give a company a reason to doubt you, and they will. If they consider hiring you, they will run your social security number. If the names don't match, or there are other irregularities, it will come out, and they may not hire you. The SS Administration won't send a "mismatch" letter over your gender anymore, but they will regarding a name.

As difficult as coming out on the job is, at least you have a chance of being retained. Not disclose facts, or give conflicting information about your ID, and your chance goes down to zero. It's up to you.

HUGS

Carolyn Marie

But how do you come out in the sort of situation I'm in? And am I doing the right thing with submitting a resume? I just want things to work out and to not worry about this garbage any more. I'm so far into my transition that it shouldn't be an issue but sadly is.

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Carolyn Marie

For me, I would wait to be hired, establish yourself on the job, get a good reputation and a solid work record, and then come out and hope for the best. Every situation is different, and you have to judge the risks and rewards. My opinion isn't any more valid than anyone else;s, and its been many years since I was in the job market. All I can tell you is what seems right to me, and the least risky.

HUGS

Carolyn Marie

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KieranD

For me, I would wait to be hired, establish yourself on the job, get a good reputation and a solid work record, and then come out and hope for the best. Every situation is different, and you have to judge the risks and rewards. My opinion isn't any more valid than anyone else;s, and its been many years since I was in the job market. All I can tell you is what seems right to me, and the least risky.

HUGS

Carolyn Marie

But...it's like...I've been living like this for a long time. I've been on hormones for a year and a half now, and transitioning for a few years. Going backwards in my transition by pretending to be female just doesn't sound acceptable.

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VickySGV

Whatever you are today, as far as legal identity goes, goes on the work application. Full and complete and open. Interview in that identity, and when and IF a job offer is made, simply bring up the issue with the hiring authority then if you really must make it an entry issue. They may hang up the phone on your then and withdraw the offer, but thats the worst they can do. I agree with CM though that the best way is to get the job, finish any probationary period, and research like heck what the job patterns are and who to see about your GD issues.

Do not shotgun the industry with resumes, make specific contacts and learn about the companys you are applying to. Make that info part of your resume and if needed you can mention their trans acceptability policies as a reason to work there. Its true, but then make the best pitch you can on your WORK experience and quality. If you know a company is not trans friendly, such as ones owned by prominent members of religious organizations, then, unless you are real hungry and willing to bury your soul, don't even try to apply there.

Nobody loves a sneaky, indirect, lying liittle trans bleep. Being fired for lying on a job application is not a good thing to have to explain down the road.

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KieranD

Whatever you are today, as far as legal identity goes, goes on the work application. Full and complete and open. Interview in that identity, and when and IF a job offer is made, simply bring up the issue with the hiring authority then if you really must make it an entry issue. They may hang up the phone on your then and withdraw the offer, but thats the worst they can do. I agree with CM though that the best way is to get the job, finish any probationary period, and research like heck what the job patterns are and who to see about your GD issues.

Do not shotgun the industry with resumes, make specific contacts and learn about the companys you are applying to. Make that info part of your resume and if needed you can mention their trans acceptability policies as a reason to work there. Its true, but then make the best pitch you can on your WORK experience and quality. If you know a company is not trans friendly, such as ones owned by prominent members of religious organizations, then, unless you are real hungry and willing to bury your soul, don't even try to apply there.

Nobody loves a sneaky, indirect, lying liittle trans bleep. Being fired for lying on a job application is not a good thing to have to explain down the road.

I don't understand what it means to shotgun the industry with resumes. Could you please explain this to me?

Really, I'm just trying to find any place to work as me...and the resume I sent out was specifically for potential careers (I'm not getting any younger, and I've been finished with college for awhile). These places asked specifically for resumes and portfolios, and not an application. I did work for a place that had an anti-discrimination policy, but sadly I did face discrimination there.

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VickySGV

"Shot gunning" means sending a resume to any and every maybe sorta kinda possible job place. If you are carefully checking on where you send resume's and researching the company as best you can, then you will be fine that far. I was a part of my departmental hiring team for 10 years before I retired last year, and got resumes all the time that had nothing to do with the jobs we had to offer, and some that missed important information and went off in the wrong direction. The best I can say is, be honest, you are still one person even though you intend to become another one. "Can either of you do the work the company has?" is the only real question I ever had as a manager. I never had a job that specifically needed a transitioning trans person in it, but many that needed skilled "nodelthackers" in the position. Did the application say the person was trans and not a "nodelthacker"? Missed the NT item!! Resume becomes a trashcan liner!!

The place I worked for had a non-discrimination policy too, but if the person was not doing the job we hired them for, we could discriminate on the grounds of incompetence and failure to perform even if they were gay or trans, woman or minority. I was only out the last two years (of 33) I worked for my state agency, but did not transition on the job.

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KieranD

"Shot gunning" means sending a resume to any and every maybe sorta kinda possible job place. If you are carefully checking on where you send resume's and researching the company as best you can, then you will be fine that far. I was a part of my departmental hiring team for 10 years before I retired last year, and got resumes all the time that had nothing to do with the jobs we had to offer, and some that missed important information and went off in the wrong direction. The best I can say is, be honest, you are still one person even though you intend to become another one. "Can either of you do the work the company has?" is the only real question I ever had as a manager. I never had a job that specifically needed a transitioning trans person in it, but many that needed skilled "nodelthackers" in the position. Did the application say the person was trans and not a "nodelthacker"? Missed the NT item!! Resume becomes a trashcan liner!!

The place I worked for had a non-discrimination policy too, but if the person was not doing the job we hired them for, we could discriminate on the grounds of incompetence and failure to perform even if they were gay or trans, woman or minority. I was only out the last two years (of 33) I worked for my state agency, but did not transition on the job.

I'm not really one person intending to become a different person. I've just been "me" for years, so it's more of a past tense thing (documents need to be changed, sadly). I've applied to places that are related to what I majored in when I was in college. I did have an internship related to my major in college, and was hired from that internship. So, I do have experience and I've written that in my resume (although, I sent out an artist resume as opposed to a full employment history...the artist resume has 5 jobs totaling 6 years of experience specifically related to what field I want to work in. These were just craigslist ads that I found.

I faced discrimination for being trans (or I believe it to be) because I successfully did my job (seriously...retail...and I never got a warning for anything). I guess it's tough for me to find somebody that's been in a similar situation.

I'm also growing a bit of a beard, so that might also be an issue.

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Drea

You have two realistic options.

First apply and interview for a job as your documents identify you, but as Carolyn said be prepared to establish yourself before comming out. That would be at least a year, perhaps two years.

Second, change your documentation and apply under the new identity avoiding the trans issue.

You could potentially apply and interview without documentation changed or while it is being changed, but then you will likely have to address the trans subject during the interview which isn't exactly going to put you at the top of the list if they can avoid it. Employers just don't like complications. . Delaying to tell after a job offer could be considered having lied on the application and could result in the offer being withdrawn. It might not but will be starting off on the wrong foot.

As far as descrimination at past job, it has no bearing on the job search. The last thing you want to do is bring that up as a reason for leaving the last job as they will not know the circumstances and would worry about getting painted as discriminating no matter what they do so will be reluctant.

You are best off letting go whatever may have happened at that last employers and move forward unless you feel there is enough cause to file a lawsuit. Instituting a lawsuit won't help with finding a new job but can make you feel better about that past injustice if you really need that. Understand it will be a long process and it can make finding a new job harder.

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Guest Donna Jean

As far as descrimination at past job, it has no bearing on the job search. The last thing you want to do is bring that up as a reason for leaving the last job as they will not know the circumstances and would worry about getting painted as discriminating no matter what they do so will be reluctant.

You are best off letting go whatever may have happened at that last employers and move forward unless you feel there is enough cause to file a lawsuit. Instituting a lawsuit won't help with finding a new job but can make you feel better about that past injustice if you really need that. Understand it will be a long process and it can make finding a new job harder.

I have to agree with Drea on this part......reveling this about your last job could make any potential employers "Gun Shy" and lessen your employment opportunities.....

Good luck

Dee Jay

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KieranD

I've got one big loop going on. I can't afford to change my name (even with a waiver) because of all the other fees involved.

I brought up what happened at a previous job because that's one of the many reasons why I'm so nervous and anxious about trying to find a job. Also, that position everybody was an at will employee and there was no probationary period or anything. I don't intend to bring up that I was discriminated (and it's pointless to file a lawsuit because it's all sie said, she said) at a job or anything. I know what language to use on applications (which none of the places I've applied to needed applications). Since I left that job while my other job was starting to pick up I'm going to write "better opportunity" as I was not fired, but put into a very uncomfortable position and was essentially forced to quit.

Also, I will have a full beard in less than a year, so waiting to come out after a year or two is not an option (it just seems really ridiculous to me). Right now I have visible sideburns and some chin hair (as I said...on hormones for a year and a half...living my life as myself as much as possible for many years).

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KieranD

Tiny update...I've applied/submitted my resume to approximately 50 different employers. All positions where I meet qualifications, some specifically involve LGBT folks, most don't. When filling out applications I used my legal name, and my resume says first initial "chosen name" last name. I went to a job fair recently and wasn't outwardly gendered as female. I didn't shave for the job fair but I did look professional.

I haven't gotten an interview yet, or any sort of reply from the places I've applied to one way or the other which is frustrating. Next week I'm talking to legislators about getting some transgender protections in the work place.

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Guest Kourtney

While I cannot help on the aspect of what to do as far as being transgendered and finding a job, I will say this: you need to call call call! I applied to about 10 places before I was hired, but I called to speak to the hiring manager and informed them of my application. It did land me 4 interviews, but all but 1 dropped or never got back to me. Granted where I am working (a local Panera) isn't the BEST job but it is one at that. Not to mention the possibility of moving up within the company and the option of transferring if I move is helpful. For now.

So yes, fill out those applications, give it a day or two, and then call. Simple as "Hi my name is *insert name* and I recently applied. I was just hoping someone could look it over as I am very interested in the job offer." This way here, you are putting forth major interest and standing out against the other 10 or so people who also have applied. Personality and interest go more far then people believe!

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KieranD

While I cannot help on the aspect of what to do as far as being transgendered and finding a job, I will say this: you need to call call call! I applied to about 10 places before I was hired, but I called to speak to the hiring manager and informed them of my application. It did land me 4 interviews, but all but 1 dropped or never got back to me. Granted where I am working (a local Panera) isn't the BEST job but it is one at that. Not to mention the possibility of moving up within the company and the option of transferring if I move is helpful. For now.

So yes, fill out those applications, give it a day or two, and then call. Simple as "Hi my name is *insert name* and I recently applied. I was just hoping someone could look it over as I am very interested in the job offer." This way here, you are putting forth major interest and standing out against the other 10 or so people who also have applied. Personality and interest go more far then people believe!

These are online applications where there's really no contact info. Most are just sending a cover letter and resume through craigslist.

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KieranD

Still jobless. I've sent out over 100 resumes/applications, got one interview and I messed it up because I didn't know how to figure out per diem pricing for a 1 month contract position. What also bites is that I sent this company my resume 2 months ago for a different position and they just contacted me now. I also got some state certification thing so I can use this certain list of potential employers that get a tax credit if I work there. No returned e-mails or calls there. I hit monster, craigslist, the job bank, simply hired, monster, career builder, and indeed. I've applied for things I can do, things that are related to what I majored in college for, office/desk jobs (I've got a typing speed of 80wpm). No luck. Just sorta clueless on where the heck to go. I also applied for places centered around LGBT folks. I'm kind of wishing there was a site showing job positions where people want trans folks.

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Drea

In my opinion, online applications, online job sites and online submittals are almost pointless unless there is a serious effort to follow up and actually reach a person as Kourtney says.

Having been in the position of trying to fill a position, the number of irrelevent resumes that one gets is staggering. Some people just shotgun applications. The internet, job sites, online submittals has really amplified this tendency.

So to get attention one needs to stand out. Cover letters tailored tot he position being offered, attempts to follow up. These are things that make one stand out.

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KieranD

In my opinion, online applications, online job sites and online submittals are almost pointless unless there is a serious effort to follow up and actually reach a person as Kourtney says.

Having been in the position of trying to fill a position, the number of irrelevent resumes that one gets is staggering. Some people just shotgun applications. The internet, job sites, online submittals has really amplified this tendency.

So to get attention one needs to stand out. Cover letters tailored tot he position being offered, attempts to follow up. These are things that make one stand out.

Yea, I do the cover letters (it just seems like a good way to introduce yourself) and since most of these are via craigslist and companies don't write the company's name so it's hard to contact after. I think when the post runs out the e-mail redirect thing poofs too. Not really sure how to contact people when they don't give contact information.

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KieranD

I got this certification thing where I have to apply for jobs using my legal name (n stuff) and on Wednesday I'm interviewing for a position under my legal name. I'm kind of nervous and although I applied just because it's a job near me that I'd be able to do, it's not exactly a job I want to do. I think being really upfront about being trans and getting reassurance that it will be a safe space for me would make me want the job and I'll feel much more comfortable. If they make me feel like it's not going to be a positive environment for me then in my head it's okay because it wasn't a job I was in love with anyways.

Any sort of thoughts with this kind of thing?

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