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Guest Refusing to choose

Help on appearing gender neutral when out, wanted please!

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Guest Refusing to choose

Hey, I'm recently getting to grips with being genderqueered, and previously (as in the last 10 years) I've been wearing the same baggy hoodys and baggy combats - basically male clothes, in the hope that I will at least look like a tomboy,

I've now cut my hair into a mohawk with a slight quiff at the front, and taken to wearing black makeup so as to appear slightly more neutral, and I've just bought a 983--Tri-Top Chest Binder from underworks... but does anyone have any advice on how to appear more gender neutral?

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Guest Luna Selene

If you're good with make up, you could look into how to do stage effects and give yourself stubble...

Way to go!

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Guest Jo-I-Dunno

I'm coming from the opposite direction, so my personal strategies don't apply. I can make suggestions, though! Other than what you're already doing, here are some ideas:

  • Build some muscles!
  • Play around with your voice. For a physical female trying to seem less so, try to stay relatively monotone.
  • Study how people stand/walk.

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Guest Refusing to choose

Thanks for those. But I don't think I want to try the stubble look, I'm trying to get away from obviously masculine traits as I'm wearing the clothes. Unfortunately I'm not in a position where I can build muscle either - I have a chronic illness which disables me. But I'll try the voice thing, thanks :)

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Ravin

Little accessory details can help throw things off. When people don't see something that tells them gender in an obvious way, they look for subtler cues. For example, many butch women I've seen will dress hair-to-shoes masculine, sans makeup, but will wear earrings that pretty much scream "I'm female!" They also don't bind, though their clothes and individual build may leave that open to speculation.

One thing that can throw the subtle off is shaving your face. Because women usually don't shave, that babyfine peachfuzz is there and is a subtle signal that you're female. If you shave it, it can throw off the signal. Also, men grow sideburns, while women's hair tends to grow into a wispy point at the same place. Keeping your "sideburns" shaved so there's no telltale wispy points can help.

That complete absence of hair is true of body hair, such as on arms, as well. If you shave it all off, people can't judge by thickness whether to label you masculine or feminine, while on the legs, where women normally shave, if you leave it unshaved you could be butch and female or male and not very hairy by genetic tendency.

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Guest Jo-I-Dunno

I've thought about the facial fuzz thing before. Like, a couple days after electrolysis when my face is healed but before real facial hair starts growing back, I touch my face and think, "Oh! Fuzz! I forgot how that feels." I never thought about it as a specific gender indicator, though. And lately, my electrolysis appointments have been reaching up into my sideburns which has thrown some people off.

I wish there was a way to do the same thing with my arms and legs. But alas, two years of estrogen and anti-androgens have had minimal on my male Colombian hairyness genes.

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Ravin

Can electrolysis be used to thin it out? I've got that Latino hairiness, too, though in my case it just means that being female-bodied I'm still hairier than a lot of guys, including a dark enough upper lip that it would make some people self-conscious. And if I went on T...hairy back and eyebrows bushy enough to need combing are in the set of possibilities, to judge by male relatives. (also male pattern baldness...) The idea of needing a nose hair trimmer is about as exciting as the idea of having to shave my legs was when I was twelve (I had to be coerced into starting shaving in the first place).

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Guest Jo-I-Dunno

Yeah. The effects are gradual, not immediate. For example, I've had about 25 individual hour-long sessions yet no single part of my face is totally clear yet, though my neck is starting to look like it did when I first started shaving.

It's expensive, time-consuming, and painful, though. Once I finish my face, I don't think I'm willing to do it anywhere else on my body. But, then again, we're talking about one of the more sensitive parts of the human body with the thickest hairs; maybe arms/legs wouldn't hurt so bad.

And, yeesh, eyebrows. Every time I post a picture of myself on this website, people say "you really look like a girl, but maybe trim those eyebrows". But I take those pictures immediately after I pluck out my unibrow and hairs that line the sides of my eye sockets.

Sorry we're kinda off-topic RefusingToChoose. Or are we...

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Guest Refusing to choose

No this is quite interesting for me, and to be honest I'm picking up some tips along the way so thanks :)

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Guest Refusing to choose

So I went out today wearing baggy jeans, a knitted sleeved top and a leather coat... and the woman serving me in the shop called me Sir. I passed. But I kinda feel like I failed in a way, I wasn't aiming for masculine, I was aiming for just me.... *shrug*.

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Guest Jo-I-Dunno

Well what did you want her to day, "Good afternoon... you"? Most people are ultimately going to assign you to one or the other. I think the success criteria, if you're trying to not look specifically male or female, lies in getting a variety of responses

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Guest Refusing to choose

Yeah I suppose you have a good point there. The best response I ever got was 'thank you sir, madam, sir, erm?' which made me happy for days :-p

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Guest Juniper Blue

Be yourself ... do what feels right and move in the ways that feel natural to you ... your androgyny will most likely shine right through on its own. Just be YOU! Amazing and one of a kind ... YOU.

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Guest Micha

Yeah I suppose you have a good point there. The best response I ever got was 'thank you sir, madam, sir, erm?' which made me happy for days :-p

:lol:

Personally I like "erm?" the best. ^_^

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Guest Refusing to choose

Ok so I had a (coming out) birthday party with just my closest friends this Saturday. It went really well and I got a llot of comments along the lines of 'yeah we guessed - you're just you to us anyway.' which was nice :D

Yesterday (my actual birthday) I wore womens jeans with a mans short sleeved button shirt and a new tie and I felt fantastic, like that was the style that felt most 'me'. All day I kept saying to my boyfriend 'I feel like myself!' and he just kept replying 'you look like yourself' lol. I think he understood though as he was crossdressing all day and it was just an amazing freedom day. I even got up the courage to go to the shop - where we were annouced as they know us quite well - which was scary but somehow cool.

Anyhow, the message I wanted to say was that yeah II think I've been focussing too much on trying to get the right mix between neither male or female which is impossible (for me) as I more often feel both. So I think I'm onto a look that makes me just feel really COMFORTABLE BEING MYSELF! Which is amazing. . .

Anyways, I'll stop rambling on now..

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Guest Juniper Blue

I have given this more thought. I hope these suggestions help:

One practical thing that might help you to present more androgynously is learning more about barbering. There are some differences between classic men's hair cuts and short women's hair cuts. The most common difference is that men's hair cuts are often "edged up" or have very clean lines. Also, the sides ( at your side burns) are generally cut straight across as opposed to angled down.

It may take a while to rediscover your true preferences with your choice of clothing and manner ... but I imagine that you will descover that the things that seem "right" to you are also quite compatible with the androgynous look that you are seeking.

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Guest Micha

Ok so I had a (coming out) birthday party with just my closest friends this Saturday. It went really well and I got a llot of comments along the lines of 'yeah we guessed - you're just you to us anyway.' which was nice :D

Yesterday (my actual birthday) I wore womens jeans with a mans short sleeved button shirt and a new tie and I felt fantastic, like that was the style that felt most 'me'. All day I kept saying to my boyfriend 'I feel like myself!' and he just kept replying 'you look like yourself' lol. I think he understood though as he was crossdressing all day and it was just an amazing freedom day. I even got up the courage to go to the shop - where we were annouced as they know us quite well - which was scary but somehow cool.

Anyhow, the message I wanted to say was that yeah II think I've been focussing too much on trying to get the right mix between neither male or female which is impossible (for me) as I more often feel both. So I think I'm onto a look that makes me just feel really COMFORTABLE BEING MYSELF! Which is amazing. . .

Anyways, I'll stop rambling on now..

Perfect! ^_^

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