Priest Calls Vote For Obama A Mortal Sin

[Guest]

Priest Calls Vote for Obama a Mortal Sin

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith...or_obama_a.html

The Catholic Church has threatened this before. We are supposed to have seperation of Church and state. Still they have threatened Catholic politicians who haven't voted their way. An elected official that you voted for should not be subject to blackmail and I would think it would be illegal. Now they are telling us How to vote. If you didn't vote their way then they punish you. Perhaps Church's like this deserve to have their tax-exempt status revoked for interfering in the democratic electoral process. Is blackmail less of a criminal act if you are a church?

"Render the things that are Caesar's to Caesar and to God the things that are Gods".

Laura

[Guest Elizabeth K]

I agree such a stand is unacceptable. As a person in the Catholic Church I can say that, in America at least, there isn't much agreement by most of us middle-of-the-roaders.

I first heard of this threat to excommunicate politicos on National Public Radio. There was a commentator afterward, if I remember correctly, that explained there were advocates in the Catholic Church wanting to "deny communion" to any Catholic politician (Obama included) who voted against any Catholic Political Agenda - especially against pro-life. And the threat extended to those who voted for these people! Woww, that is you and me - well you too if you happen to be Catholic.

Wow again - abortion is such a hot subject anyway, but to punish politicans fort voting against the Catholic Church line? To punish you or me for voting for these politicians? It sounds like a return to the Inquisition.

However, the commentator suggested these guys 'in the black hooded gowns' (my words not his) may be RADICALS (my caps) who blindly support ALL hard lines of the Catholic Church. And to be fair, all the abortion or pro-life radicals are now so polarized we may never see a peaceful resolution, ever.

As the same commentator pointed out: in most ways the Democratic stance for support of the disadvantaged may be more in line with the Catholic Political Agenda, than that of the general practices of the Republicans.

Hummm... So the irony is one party seems to be "pro-abortion" but also "pro-assistance to the underprivliged" - the other party seems "pro-life" but also "essentually ignores the underprivliged."

The above (my above - not Laura's) is an oversimplified and overstated analysis, and in actuality may be full of hot air - "she said, smiling."

The point is, and what I feel it is probably valid, those who project the strict view of the so called Catholic Politcal Agenda, may be so caught up in the idea of "infallability" (a great Catholic word), that they are capable of saving the tail, but losing the pig.

In a nut-shell, in my opinion these people are misguided. Most critics of the fact of the Catholic Church venturing into politics, point out that after 35 years of trying to reverse pro-abortion ledgislation, the success level has been very low. It seems the problem is not the law, but the lack of education on what a horrible thing abortion can be (the Pro-life opinion - you may or may not agree).

Isn't it any church's duty to teach people about what they consider bad stuff? Shouldn't the Church leaders return to the pulpit for their teachings and abandon politics?

If such behavior continues, we could see a breakoff of an "American" Catholic Church - sooner, rather than later - hummm... hope not.

Please consider this: what happens to the transgender community if other radicals on so called moral crusades become political agendists? I believe the separation of Church and State is more critical now, than ever.

Just my opinion - and what do I know? Wow, abortion, religion and politics all in the same discussion - I've can offend EVERYONE!

[Guest April63]

I have a slightly different stance here. I think a church should be able to conduct its business in any way it wants to. If it doesn't like Obama supporters, it doesn't need to give its time and resources to those supporters. I have the same stance regardless on the political issue. The separation of church and state prevents the law from giving tax money to churches, requiring people to attend a church, punishing sins with legal punishments, etc. I believe that we all have freedom of religion. We can attend a church that we like. If we stop liking the church, then we can leave. This is the separation of church and state. We are only bound to the church while we want to be bound. We can always leave and join another. If a preacher doesn't like Obama, big deal. A lot of people voted for McCain.

April

[Guest Chrissie]

Priest Calls Vote for Obama a Mortal Sin

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith...or_obama_a.html

The Catholic Church has threatened this before. We are supposed to have seperation of Church and state. Still they have threatened Catholic politicians who haven't voted their way. An elected official that you voted for should not be subject to blackmail and I would think it would be illegal. Now they are telling us How to vote. If you didn't vote their way then they punish you. Perhaps Church's like this deserve to have their tax-exempt status revoked for interfering in the democratic electoral process. Is blackmail less of a criminal act if you are a church?

"Render the things that are Ceasar's to Ceasar and to God the things that are Gods".

Laura

This is one of those things that I think common sense should rule rather than Faith. Especially concerning Abortion. Because I/the bible says so never really struck me as a reason to do or not do anything.

My explanation

Saying something is a sin because of an inference taken from the bible or a religious leader says so, is in my opinion a little stupid, because the person isn't using their head or thinking for self. Its like saying using electricity is a sin, because lightning comes from god and he alone should allowed to use electricity.

Abortion is one of those topics that cause a lot of controversy... I am Pro choice for a number of reasons, yet none of them are religious. My reasons are mostly common sense related, that the option should be out there in case of certain conditions.

What is or isn't a sin is mostly written out in the bible... If I remember correctly. And some of those need to be updated. There are many arguments that can use to say Abortion is a Sin. But all of them hinge on one little factoid... Where do you draw the line about a fetus/ child in the womb/ whatever you call it... is a person or not. I'm not saying in here where I draw the line here...

As for politics and religion they will always try to influence the other and can never totally be separated. Lets not try... let religion have their domain and politics have theirs and try no overlap the domains too much.

[Guest julia_d]

I don't like religion.. It is a bare faced lie used to frighten children and control adults into compliance with a false threat of some vague punishment by an unproven "god".. bah.. http://transsexual.org/belief.html

[Guest Zenda]

Kia Ora,

Umm religion's Ok just so long as no one believes in it...

What I really find strange ie, weird and ‘wonder’-ful about Americans who call themselves ‘trans’ are their views on religion-there are some who are quite blatantly ‘pro religious right’, they will defend rr views no matter what, even if the attack from the religious right is directed at them[being gay or transgender]

Another thing that I find quite intriguing is those who seem to defend the religious right are not quite ‘out of the closet’….I just wonder what tune they will dance to when they are ‘out and about’ on the dance floor...My advice …start learning a new ‘progressive’ dance - you will be dancing to a different tune I’m sure…

abortion and the priest…I’m pro choice-what right do I have to tell a woman what to do with her body- I wouldn't want others dictating to me about what I can and can't do with my body- If you ask me, I think that sensible American Catholics should ‘abort’ the preacher before his rhetoric gets out of hand…why on earth would one want rhetoric as ignorant as that growing inside ones mind…Errrr I perish the thought so I abort…

“Obama! you're still a charmer!” I’m sure his charm will win over the ignoramus…the ones that count that is...

Besides ...“Faith should be tempered by reason!” not ‘treason’…

Happy mindfulness-and may ignorence be aborted...

Metta Jendar

[Guest]

"I think this is a violation of the Voting Rights Act. It is a federal offence to interfere with a person's right to vote. I'm not Catholic, but I know many who take their faith very seriously. A threat like this from the church could very well deter parishioners from voting freely in the future".

I have no problem with the priest expressing his opinion. It is the fact he is blackmailing parishoners to vote his way that bothers me. There are laws governing politics and tax exempt organizations. If I vote for someone I expect my elected offical to not be influenced and to vote his own concience, not someone elses. Unfortunately because of this people may now think twice about voting for a Catholic for office.

Laura

[Guest Donna Jean]

Hey, I have no problem with the church telling their flock that a Vote for Obama is a mortal sin! Why, after all, is not it evil to do anything to hurt or affect children in any form?

My, My, My........why do they shuffle around and hide priests who have molested children and let that awful bit of God's love go unseen and be hidden for so many years.

The unmitigated nerve!! What hypocrites! How could they!!??!!

I can't believe they would have the nerve to tell ANYBODY else what they were doing was wrong.... OOoooo I am SO mad!

Ye without sin cast the first stone!

Oh! That makes me MAD!!!!

**Crying 'cause I can't hit anything!***

Donna Jean

[Guest April63]

Jendar and Julia,

Not all religion is bad. I believe religion is a really good thing. You're just being too skeptical. Also, not every church is as anti-LGBT as you believe them to be Jendar.

I don't think it is really an interference with your right to vote. You still get to vote. There is no test or regulation preventing you from voting. that was the original purpose of the act. To remove requirements, such as tests, for voting.

April

[Guest Zenda]

Kia Ora,

Treason=A crime that undermines the offender's government-Disloyalty by virtue of subversive behaviour-An act of deliberate betrayal...Wouldn't that fit the discription of the priest's rhetoric...

I'm not belittling the situation with this priest.... We also have religious radical nutters here too...We have a new government a right wing one[The National Party but don't be fool by the name]-the leader calls himself centre right but the old cronies his henchmen are for the most part far right and they are also in bed with united future a religious political party...

Under the centre left Labour government[Helen Clark was our PrimeMinster and a good one she was] life was sweet for the minorities, they introducted 'civil union' for gay and defacto couples and restarted government funded gender affirming surgery GAS and funded the Human rights commission to research discrimination against trans people...

Plus Labour helped the green party removed section 59 a law that allowed parents to use 'reasonable' force to discipline their children-many parents who 'assorted' their children ie, physically beat them-leaving the child with bruses all over their body were getting off Scot free because of the difficulty of defining 'reasonable force'...The religious right were up in arms when section 59 was removed-they believed it was their 'god' given right to 'beat' their children to 'teach' them a lesson-Umm how Christian is that...[by removing section 59 all the government was doing was giving children the 'same' legal rights as adults when it comes to physical abuse/assort]... With this new right wing government we will just have to wait and see what the 'devil' they will do..Umm I'm quite passionate when it comes to children's rights...

I didn't vote for Labour this election[like I normally do] I voted for the 'Greens' however Labour and the greens worked well together in the past...BTW the green party does have some clout when it comes to policies...Even though some might call us/the greens "the loony left"

http://www.greens.org.nz/node/20340

Slightly off topic but what the hell....

Happy mindfulness

Metta Jendar

[Guest Zenda]

Jendar and Julia,

Not all religion is bad. I believe religion is a really good thing. You're just being too skeptical. Also, not every church is as anti-LGBT as you believe them to be Jendar.

I don't think it is really an interference with your right to vote. You still get to vote. There is no test or regulation preventing you from voting. that was the original purpose of the act. To remove requirements, such as tests, for voting.

April

Kia Ora April,

When did I say all Churches were anti LGBT? If you read some of my post you will find in the past I've listed some LGBT friendly religious organisations[including Christian] where religious trans people could go to and feel comfortable and safe...I personally may not have time for main stream religion I think that it can be quite dangerous and bad for ones health, but I know that many trans-people are struggling with the 'fact' their church does not accept them for who they are...Will your church community accept you April when you come out? If they do then you will be one of the lucky ones...

I don't know your personal circumstances , but I get a feeling that your opinions have been strongly influenced by family, church and community,[which is understandable] and I'm not saying that's a bad thing, some churches and congregations are gay and trans-friendly and practice what they preach ie, tolerence, acceptance etc etc...But if you belong to a church where "hypocrisy is the homage that vices pays to virtue!"...Then I really feel sorry for you because you have got a real struggle on your hands ie, either being loyal to oneself [accepting who you are] or trying to stay loyal to family, friends and church when they are not prepared to accept you being trans...And sadly if this is the case your situation is not unique just read some of the posts in the teen section...

In the long run like yourself I too believe that churches can do whatever they like-just so long as what they do does not impact on society as a whole...If one wants to go to a church that preaches hatred towards those who are different, so be it, that should be ones 'choice' and if one does not agree with what's being preached then one can leave...Americans are big on freedom of speech but some are not so keen on freedom of choice...

"Hypocrisy is the homage that vice pays to virtue!"

Happy Mindfulness

Metta Jendar

[Guest julia_d]

All religion is bad. It is an "us against them" situation regardless of which one you look at. Religion is divisive and exclusive. They all fall into the trap of "pride".. "we are better than xxxx.. because we are xxxx"

My only experiences at the hands of religion and the religious have been bad. No thanks, I'm not playing that game.

[Guest Chrissie]

All religion is bad. It is an "us against them" situation regardless of which one you look at. Religion is divisive and exclusive. They all fall into the trap of "pride".. "we are better than xxxx.. because we are xxxx"

My only experiences at the hands of religion and the religious have been bad. No thanks, I'm not playing that game.

I disagree julia... Religion is something to believe in... No matter what you believe in it gives you a community, a sense of belonging. Those are good things.

I am not saying that I don't have issues with several of the Christian Religions... which leaps to everyone's mind (mostly) when talking about religions. Some of their beliefs and inferences are questionable however.

Many religions have things in common with christianity... I think its because Christianity has stolen and incorporated so many "local" beliefs so that they could convert more followers during the early parts of history. and Many Historians support this thought. I can explain most of the christmas related traditions. But Easter?

I still dont know where they got the Gosh darned Easter Bunny from ... Religious leader gets hung on a cross to Pink bunny handing out eggs and candy. what's the common thread?

[Guest Sheila]

I'm going to have to add my two cents worth please. I can't believe the Catholic church is still here after sheltering pedifile priests for all of those years. I hoped people would be so offended, as I was, and join another church. It is beyond my reasoning why people are still loyal to such an institution. I am not Catholic, and never have been. I think the Catholic church should be disbanded, period. sorry, just my opinion. not trying to hurt anyone's feelings, but I find the Catholic church to be very offensive. They also helped war criminals escape the cluthes of Justice after World War 2. Their dirty deeds go on and on. Who do they think they are, GOD........... If by chance you're a practicing Catholic, can you please explain why it doesn't bother you that they sheltered pedifile priest's, knowingly. This is not meant to be disrespectful, and I do apologise if this sounds too harsh, but enough is enough...........

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

I still dont know where they got the Gosh darned Easter Bunny from ... Religious leader gets hung on a cross to Pink bunny handing out eggs and candy. what's the common thread?

I've heard that the Easter Bunny isn't something that the church came up with. It's a pagan fertility symbol. You know...Easter happens in the spring time...it's probably left over from some kind of spring fertility festival that predates the church. My guess is that the two got linked because of temporal proximity, nothing else.

[Guest Katherine Nicole]

The Priests should stay out of politics. Personally I think that they are breaking the law, in particular IRS code. As a 501(3)C non-profit, they aren't allowed to interfere in politics.

[Guest Chrissie]

I'm going to have to add my two cents worth please. I can't believe the Catholic church is still here after sheltering pedifile priests for all of those years. I hoped people would be so offended, as I was, and join another church. It is beyond my reasoning why people are still loyal to such an institution. I am not Catholic, and never have been. I think the Catholic church should be disbanded, period. sorry, just my opinion. not trying to hurt anyone's feelings, but I find the Catholic church to be very offensive. They also helped war criminals escape the cluthes of Justice after World War 2. Their dirty deeds go on and on. Who do they think they are, GOD........... If by chance you're a practicing Catholic, can you please explain why it doesn't bother you that they sheltered pedifile priest's, knowingly. This is not meant to be disrespectful, and I do apologise if this sounds too harsh, but enough is enough...........

Actually the Catholic Church has been thinking it IS God for about 1200 years. Who do you think started the Crusades and the inquisition ??

[Guest J-Walker]

I've heard that the Easter Bunny isn't something that the church came up with. It's a pagan fertility symbol. You know...Easter happens in the spring time...it's probably left over from some kind of spring fertility festival that predates the church. My guess is that the two got linked because of temporal proximity, nothing else.

Exactly. Why do you think Jesus's birthday is celebrated in the winter when the bible says there were "shepards in the fields" at the time of his birth (Which could be any season except for winter)? They needed a way to convert pagans without taking away their winter solstice. XP

In any case, I'm glad the church didn't ruin Obama's chances of getting elected. I was VERY afraid that this election would be run by religion.

[Guest KaylaK]

Hey, I have no problem with the church telling their flock that a Vote for Obama is a mortal sin! Why, after all, is not it evil to do anything to hurt or affect children in any form?

My, My, My........why do they shuffle around and hide priests who have molested children and let that awful bit of God's love go unseen and be hidden for so many years.

The unmitigated nerve!! What hypocrites! How could they!!??!!

I can't believe they would have the nerve to tell ANYBODY else what they were doing was wrong.... OOoooo I am SO mad!

Ye without sin cast the first stone!

Oh! That makes me MAD!!!!

**Crying 'cause I can't hit anything!***

Donna Jean

According to the church, and that's who every priest is bound by church law to represent, the pope and the pope alone is without sin even if he breaks church laws. He is a king and the only person according to the church who can speak for Jesus.