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Dirty Dreams


Guest StrandedOutThere

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Here's the thing April, video games also "are addictive", as is food, work, exercise, religion, relationships......should individuals blanketly strike all of those things from their lives too? Or is it more realistic to say that they can be problematic if you allow them to be. None of those things is "so overpowering I had no choice but to let them run away with my life" and neither should we pretend porn is unless the person allows it. Its a cop out if we pretend that, and one that (in my opinion) is most likely made by people who have other problems related to sex or pathologies and know it. Might someone have an inability to indulge in it without there being a problem? Absolutely. But in the same way that person A having a drink means spiraling into the sickness of addiction and person B can have the same drink and after it walk away. One is an addict before the drink happens. Men who abuse women are abusive before and regardless of pornography, alchohol, a bad day, or anything else. Anyone who tells you different is lying. Are you going to be able to find some study that shows you a "correlation between this and that" of course, but only because usually those same people look for justifications for their actions outside of themselves. I went into my first porn shop at 12. Somehow I have an idea that was long before I considered "whether it was a male experience". My views on women? I love women believe me I do and I like them and yet I have no doubt I'm a chauvanist. "Did porn do it"? Nope. I could sit here and blame it on "the values of my family" or some such thing but the truth is at the end of the day and at this age I have the opinions and ideas I do because I choose to. I make no apologies to anyone and keep no counsel with anyone except myself and my maker.

In a way, I probably think your hope is to let people know "a danger exists, and potential problem" and for that you probably should be thanked, especially if theres some teen peeking in who has no idea of those truths. For the rest of us though it might be kinda frustrating talking to us cuz we've already made those life choices and feel satisfied with staying who we are. I'm sorry, I just don't see it as "resorting" to porn. Especially when (at least for some of us) the porn might be the lesser of the two evils.

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Guest My_Genesis
Here's the thing April, video games also "are addictive", as is food, work, exercise, religion, relationships......should individuals blanketly strike all of those things from their lives too? Or is it more realistic to say that they can be problematic if you allow them to be. None of those things is "so overpowering I had no choice but to let them run away with my life" and neither should we pretend porn is unless the person allows it. Might someone have an inability to indulge in it without there being a problem? Absolutely. But in the same way that person A having a drink means spiraling into the sickness of addiction and person B can have the same drink and after it walk away. One is an addict before the drink happens. I went into my first porn shop at 12. Somehow I have an idea that was long before I considered "whether it was a male experience". My views on women? I love women believe me I do and I like them and yet I have no doubt I'm a chauvanist. "Did porn do it"? Nope. I could sit here and blame it on "the values of my family" or some such thing but the truth is at the end of the day and at this age I have the opinions and ideas I do because I choose to. I make no apologies to anyone and keep no counsel with anyone except myself and my maker.

In a way, I probably think your hope is to let people know "a danger exists, and potential problem" and for that you probably should be thanked, especially if theres some teen peeking in who has no idea of those truths. For the rest of us though it might be kinda frustrating talking to us cuz we've already made those life choices and feel satisfied with staying who we are. I'm sorry, I just don't see it as "resorting" to porn. Especially when (at least for some of us) the porn might be the lesser of the two evils.

Women watch porn too ya know...more than a lot of women would probably like to admit :P

I would probably at least make an attempt to watch it if I were physically male and actually felt comfortable DOING those things, because then I would probably in turn not feel so awkward WATCHING them. But again, I don't think I have much use for it. Sometimes things like youtube and photobucket have a porn-like affect on me anyway. :blink:

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Guest Eva Jean

Just a quick reply to to April from me.

Our world my be filled with sex and porn and objectification but that is no different that what the world was like thousands of years ago. The greeks and romans both had cultures based heavily on sex. What we consider pornographic now was just life to them. Images of sex acts have been found all over the ancient world. I'm of the opinion that the ancients had a much more mature view of sex.

I dont think pornography is evil. Correlation does not equal cause. People dont watch porn and then become objectifiers (if thats a word). If say (not to be sexist but its easier for me this way:) ) a man objectifies women its not because he watch a porno and changed his mind on how to treat women but he would watch porn because of his views on women. theus the CORRELATION between pornography-viewing and violence.

but then that would say that everyone who uses porn is an objectifier, wouldn't it? well, no because one has the choice to act in any way. Porno doesnt breed hatred and violence of (enter specific gender here) people do. I have many friends that watch porn yet are respectable guys (all men). they respect women and some even are to such a degree that they have declined sex from their partners. So then this brings the two conclusions 1. porn is not the problem and 2. its a solution (allows fullfilment of things they are not yet ready for or whatever)

kk. i hope this made sense lol. if not, well, sorry :) if i've missed a point and this post was pointless then i'm sorry too :)

these are just my opinions and i may be proven wrong but i wholy believe that porn (for men in particular) is a very valuable tool.

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Guest Donna Jean

This thread has become REALLY interesting.

First and foremost....sex is part of the human condition. Period. In all it's many varied forms (and I mean VARIED) it is a gift...It is said that the only animal that has sex for pleasure and not just procreation, is the human animal! Even under the auspices of religion. once married, the attitude is have at it! I'm not a prude or an extremist in this matter, just a realist.

As Evan explained, porn in and of itself, is not a bad thing ...no more than a brick is a brick unless you bonk someone on the head then it's a deadly weapon. Porn does not just objectify women...there are MANY types of porn from Furries to Midgets (I won't go further) that cater to many tastes. If a man goes to a sperm bank....he is handed a magazine of the appropriate visual stimulus to help him do what needs to be done.

And it IS used in therapy...I know of two cases personally where a therapist suggested a husband and wife watch porn together to spice up their sex life...One is a church Deacon and his school teacher wife.

And it is not addictive as it stands..one is pre-wired for addiction, whether it be porn, alcohol, drugs, video games, food....you name it. Of course danger exists in any of those things for one with an "Addictive personality" but, they should not be denied to those of us who are responsible in our lives...which, by the way, is 99% of all people! I know women who look at porn, but, it is more enjoyed by men by the very fact that men enjoy visual stimulus and are more easily aroused than women..Women enjoy the written word and imagine things more than men and arouse more slowly.

My heroes have always been strong women..from my grand mother to Amelia Erhart and I really DO NOT like objectification of women, I don't like homeless puppies, I don't like war...this is the real world and some of all exists. As Eva Jean mentioned...porn (as it were) transcends the ages..its found on the pyramids and on ancient Greek temples and is by no means a modern phenomenon.

I am a big proponent of rights..from basic human rights to rights of responsible adults and their choice of alcohol, porn, sex, and the likes. There will always be meanies who use whatever crutch available to explain away their actions...

Sorry, hope I didn't step on any toes, I just wanted to put in my $ .02 worth....

Maybe I have more faith in humankind than I should..I can be naive like that, still....

Love

Donna Jean

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Guest Dutchie

Oh Evan, my hero! :lol:

You managed to say something so darn right again!

One is an addict before the drink happens. Men who abuse women are abusive before and regardless of pornography, alchohol, a bad day, or anything else. Anyone who tells you different is lying. Are you going to be able to find some study that shows you a "correlation between this and that" of course, but only because usually those same people look for justifications for their actions outside of themselves.

(...)

In a way, I probably think your hope is to let people know "a danger exists, and potential problem" and for that you probably should be thanked, especially if theres some teen peeking in who has no idea of those truths.

I'm stepping aside from the whole porn issue for a moment. Just one little comment: Porn is entertainment and an assistant in stress relief for males. I should dig up an excellent scientific research paper I read ages ago on the build-up of a certain chemical in the brain, which gets broken down after an orgasm and is contributing to the effect that males have the tendency to fall asleep after sex. The build-up is caused by the combination of testosterone and another chemical which gets released during stress and aggression. (Think about that for a moment.)

What I did want to reply to was that part about addiction/abuse. I agree completely, addiction is not created it's (partial) hereditary. My father was (and still is, despite denial) an alcoholic, I'm not, I can have a drink or two without problems. BUT! When I'm going through a phase of misery, stress or depression, chances are that if I don't look out I'm following in my fathers footsteps. Not necessarily alcohol, but the tendency to become an addict of something is there.

The other 'thing' is aggression, again this is partially hereditary. Again, in certain circumstances I can become very aggressive, thankfully this has become a lot less frequent and a lot less intense due to HRT. (T is my enemy). I did learn by experience and analysing myself how to avoid or diminish the chances of an outburst.

The combination of the two above, which were obvious in my father and have caused me a hell of a childhood. There are many things that I will never be able to forgive him. (Talk about therapeutic writing). I have learned from that too though, so our children will not suffer from what I inherited.

Our world my be filled with sex and porn and objectification but that is no different that what the world was like thousands of years ago. The greeks and romans both had cultures based heavily on sex. What we consider pornographic now was just life to them. Images of sex acts have been found all over the ancient world. I'm of the opinion that the ancients had a much more mature view of sex. I dont think pornography is evil.

Ok, I suppose I'll have to hide for a little while now once I have written my European views...

First of all, I agree, porn by definition is not evil, and sex was considered part of ancient cultures. And second, it doesn't fill our world, it's just turned into a sensational subject by our powerful media. When did it become so "evil"? Well, blame the religions for that. History has proven that. Why is it considered so "evil" today? And this is the part where the rotten tomatoes will fly across the ocean, since it is not considered so "evil" on this side of the pond. (My views are based on my experiences in the USA a couple of years ago, sorry if things have changed by now, which I highly doubt.) The US government, the Christian churches, the ratings committees and the media are the cause.

Imagine two TV-shows, one is about romance, with the occasional naked body parts visible, the other is about army life with the occasional images of war and death. Which one does get cut and censored in the USA? The first! In Europe? Neither... The US culture is so concerned with the subject of sexuality, yet "underground" people are more excessive in behaviour. The impact of showing violence and shocking imagery of war and death doesn't matter at all, strangely enough. I have been shocked myself at what has been shown on prime-time TV in the US around dinner time when the whole family is likely to watch. Things that would not be shown here, for sure, to protect the children.

A naked breast on the other hand is not considered "evil" on prime-time TV here and nobody is surprised or shocked when it happens.... (Ok, maybe some pubescent might giggle about it, like children giggle about a fart or a dirty word, but that's it.) When does something become more attractive? By hiding or forbidding it. (Plenty examples available).

Anyway, this is just to explain why I have certain views on sexuality. This wasn't intended as a USA vs Europe thing either! There are plenty of "bad" things here too...

Correlation does not equal cause. People dont watch porn and then become objectifiers (if thats a word). If say (not to be sexist but its easier for me this way:) ) a man objectifies women its not because he watch a porno and changed his mind on how to treat women but he would watch porn because of his views on women. theus the CORRELATION between pornography-viewing and violence. (...) Porno doesnt breed hatred and violence of (enter specific gender here) people do.

I'm confused, do you think there is a correlation between porn and violence or not? I think it was just a mistyping in the speed of thoughts. Violent behaviour is existing in certain types of people, the trigger to act violent can be anything and the media is very eager to blame it on the "bad" things like porn. The same applies to video games, by the way. (Try to find some HONEST and OBJECTIVE research, if you really want to know, the media cares only about selling more papers or more advertisements, thus searches sensation not the TRUTH). I did play many episodes of GTA and didn't went out to kill people, no matter how angry I was at the society.

So then this brings the two conclusions 1. porn is not the problem and 2. its a solution (allows fullfilment of things they are not yet ready for or whatever)

kk. i hope this made sense lol.

Exactly my thoughts too and you did make sense! I disagree on your #2, I see it more as an aid, not as a solution. Solution sounds too permanent to my ears.

And then there was:

See, now that is interesting to me. I know of several FtMs who've had what I've heard called "trans dreams", and admit to being one of them where the O was the male feeling, and like you gotta say "don't ask me to tell you verbally, but yowzy wowzy ENTIRELY other world, (and not all pleasant since it was a "first" ejaculation) yes I do know" and I always wanted to know if a MtF had that GG physical experience in sleeping.

(For those who missed the exact relation of this quote, it's about one dirty dream of mine.)

Maybe this is stuff for a separate thread? It is a subject that is indeed interesting and rarely openly discussed. (I mean the part about how one experiences sexual feelings and Os.)

I do know from my partner (FtM), he experiences the male O when we're at it. He's not on T, and has experienced it quite a few times during dreams.

(Yes, yes, I'm trying to convince him he should join here too...)

Do I hate it? I av

Please finish, Elizabeth... :rolleyes:

This thread has become REALLY interesting.

First and foremost....sex is part of the human condition. (...)It is said that the only animal that has sex for pleasure and not just procreation, is the human animal!

Yes, this thread gets better by the hour (I was writing my reply and saw yours when re-reading the thread).

I'm sorry, the humans aren't the only ones who have sex for pleasure. Dolphins, Primates and probably others have sex for pleasure too... (The Bonobo is probably closest humans by the way, they have sex in much the same way as humans do, see wikipedia.)

"Porn does not just objectify women..." I agree, it's the advertisement industry that does that. (Thinking about cars, etc.)

Stay "naive" like that, Donna, it's not a bad thing...

So, more food for thought from the crazy Dutchie... B)

PS. I bet the mods do have an interesting reading time on this thread. B)

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Guest Donna Jean

Hey, Dutchie, nice post as usual..

I'm sorry, the humans aren't the only ones who have sex for pleasure. Dolphins, Primates and probably others have sex for pleasure too... (The Bonobo is probably closest humans by the way, they have sex in much the same way as humans do, see wikipedia.)

I realize that, dear, its just that when I was in school that was the general consensus and was taught as such. (HEY! Get your dog off my leg!!!!) I was making a quick point...no biggie...

I do love your thought process and enjoy your posts!

You're a sweetheart!

Donna Jean

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Well, this has gotten so interesting that I felt that I needed to throw in my dull view point to bring it to a screeching halt!

On pornography - I never cared for it as a male (I have always thought feminine) and therefore don't fully understand the need - that being said, I know that many men have a 'need' for pornography and if watching movies or 'reading' magazines (I buy Playboy for the articles - how many guys have used that line?) sills that need then I'm OK with it - but don't force me to watch it! We have reached a point now where most major Hollywood movies are right at the line that started porn when I was a teenager - I shudder to think what it takes now to be truely considered pornographic. I admit I'm old fashioned, OK maybe Puritanical and a prude, but I don't feel the need to stop others from enjoying this type of entertainment. The world must draw the line at child pornography that is unacceptable on so many levels as to who it really hurts.

For a short while that seemd like forever, I lived in Killeen, Texas - a small town surronded by the largest Army base anywhere. They had a terrible problem with prostitutes working all over town (they are never allowed on base), so they had a city wide crackdown on prostitution - rapes started becoming common place - so many military personel being transfered in and out made strangers into just faceless shadows (a great place for someone to come in and committ any type of crime, because no oe is at all aware of strangers). They made a sort of non written law and gave Avenue D to the practice of the oldest profession and the rapes dropped off almost immediately to no more than any other town of it's size.

I am not equating porn with rape - they are tottaly different things, but I am saying that doing away with something completely always causes another problem. In the Grand Canyon the Department of the Interior decided that there wer too many coyotes in the park and they were killiing the deer - tourists don't like to find a half eaten deer when they are hiking with their children - so they trapped and hunted and removed all of the coyotes. The South Rim of the canyon is mostly desert and as the deer herds expanded - no coyotes to thin out the weaker deer - they almost removed on species of Mountain Juniper and then began to starve, the herd was too big. Remove the predators and natural selection ceases. They did it again in Yellowstone with the wolves, and when the brought them back they banned hunting them even out of the park causing a huge problem for the nearby ranchers. we need to learn to control things rather than eliminating them.

Remember that some people think that the best way to deal with the whole trans community is to eliminate it - I for one am against that!

Now Reverend Sally will step down from her pulpit and tell you about her dreams.

I had dreams of intamacy with me as the male while I was trying so hard to be a man - they were almost guided dreams starting out as a day dream and drifting off into sleep. They weren't very emotional actually and were never satisfying. As I continued trying to be a man these dreams started out with me as the male but somewhere through whatevr incredible divice or circumstance - I would become female part way through and I would wake up feeling so good. As I got older I became female in the dreams earlier and earlier until they just all began with me as a female - that allowed things to develop further (not so much prologue - a lot more story). Any dreams of intamcy always had me as the female (by the way in my dreams, I'm gorgeous!) and I wake up very satisfied - OK maybe I'm not such a prude!

"I have looked at love from both sides now," that song lyric has a whole different meaning for us - but even if it's just in my imagination I have looked into sex and intamacy of all kinds from both perspectives. I will always remember what it was like to be male and the pressures that they are under and I am coming to know what it truely is like to be female and the pressures that we are under. Don't every lose sight of the fact that men, women and the whole spectrum of transgendered are all human and are due or respect.

Sometimes I think too much,

Sally

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Guest StrandedOutThere
I'm confused, do you think there is a correlation between porn and violence or not? I think it was just a mistyping in the speed of thoughts. Violent behaviour is existing in certain types of people, the trigger to act violent can be anything and the media is very eager to blame it on the "bad" things like porn. The same applies to video games, by the way. (Try to find some HONEST and OBJECTIVE research, if you really want to know, the media cares only about selling more papers or more advertisements, thus searches sensation not the TRUTH). I did play many episodes of GTA and didn't went out to kill people, no matter how angry I was at the society.

You are SO right about there not being objective research. Many of the researchers that look at that sort of thing have their own agenda. I have one friend who studies the effect of video games and "taboo words" on aggression (separate but related research lines). He's more on the "video games don't make you violent and they sometimes even promote pro-social behavior" side of things. However, other video games and violence researchers are the opposite. I think porn and violence researchers are probably the same way...but with most of them being of the mindset that porn is a bad thing.

With respect to porn, I have some very conflicting views about it. I'm the sort of guy who really, really over-thinks things...so look out.

1. Cultural function of porn: In the US, even among people who wouldn't call themselves religious, people have a fairly prudish view of sex. Casual sex is a major taboo. Even 'semi-casual' sex is considered 'not quite okay'. The problem is this: the testosterone driven, male sex drive is a very real thing. Sex is a basic need, like eating and sleeping. We are driven to do it. The survival of our race depends on it. However, our culture has demonized the male sex drive in some ways....while embracing and encouraging it in others. It's really confusing sometimes. Porn is kind of like an outlet for that drive, a pressure valve, if you will (the visual parallel of this comparison were initially unintentional). Without it, people might find some other outlet that would be less appropriate. Also, as was mentioned already, porn occasionally even has application in committed, monogamous relationships.

2. Porn doesn't hurt anyone. ...or does it?: Here's where I feel guilty. I suspect that porn does hurt people. The fact that there is a lucrative industry out there probably drives young women to agree to be in the films. I can't say for sure, but I imagine that being in those things doesn't feel good. It doesn't make those women feel proud. Maybe it does... I don't know. I'm just using my own feelings as a basis to make the judgments. Maybe those women really don't care. The thing is, young people sometimes make choices without knowing what reality is on the other side of those choices. They do it because the tangible benefits seem worth it. In the case of porn, you have young women believing that this is their first step toward being a movie star and making lots of money. However, in reality, porn and mainstream film draw from two distinct pools of "talent". Anyway, I am sure that there are older, more experienced people manipulating some of those women into doing porn films. I imagine that some of those girls feel bad about what they are doing.

The worst thing that happens when I think about porn is that I imagine how I'd feel if someone I loved were in those films I watch. I'd hate that! The idea of someone I love being treated that way is intolerable! Every once in a while you will see a grimace of real pain go across one of the girls' faces. That's NOT COOL.

Now, it might be that the girls in those videos are soulless, materialistic, and generally not good people. Somehow telling myself that makes me feel a little less guilty. I've certainly met girls and wondered how their soul was eaten away and replaced with a dark, black void. I want to believe the best about everyone, but sometimes reality makes that difficult. However, in the case of porn girls, I can't help but thinking that they might not have been like that before...being vacuous might just be a response to a horrible, unnatural environment. Sex as a job...even when it's "legal", has GOT to be weird and uncomfortable. No matter how much people want to deny it, there are real, emotional reactions to sex. It's part of our natural hardwiring. When women have sex, a chemical called oxytocin is released. Oxytocin is related to pair bonding. Men and woman have different evolutionary imperatives, and their brains are shaped by nature to complement those. For men, the best strategy is to have the least possible investment in offspring. For women, their position dictates that they must invest a lot in the offspring, or it won't survive. Brains and hormones are tuned to help us carry out those very different missions. Thus, casual sex...even if you deny it...is going to have emotional consequences (at least at first, maybe you can unlearn it).

3. When I watch porn, I don't think about that stuff: Not enough to trouble me anyway. I'm not thinking about any of the participants as people. In fact, most of the time I am just imagining if I were in the situation. When my mind is on "something else", there isn't a lot of room to think about the participants as individuals. For me, porn watching is totally separate and distinct from how I'd function in a relationship. If I had a girlfriend, I probably won't even bother with the stuff.

4. Does porn contribute to the objectification of women? I'm not sure if this makes me objectify women or men more than I would anyway. For the most part, I'm a pretty sensitive, intelligent man. I don't have a hard time keeping fantasy and reality separate. This might be easier because of my past. I know that women don't suddenly disrobe in locker rooms. I know that they aren't the compliant, docile, passive creatures that porn makes them out to be. No part of me expects a woman I interact with to show any of those qualities.

5. A lot of times I just watch hentai: It's a cartoon. Someone drew it. No real women were hurt or manipulated. It's like being a porn vegetarian...or vegan. Hentai is the kinder, gentler porn. Well...not exactly...but in a way.

Yeah... I think we got on this topic because someone, maybe me...said that dirty dreams were like private porn. It's cool how this has evolved into a pretty interesting discussion.

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Guest Dutchie

When I was discussing this a moment ago with my SO, he mentioned a research which I have read as well and I couldn't resist adding it to the already interesting discussion.

The research showed that when men and women are watching porn, both experience at least involuntary physical arousal.

The rest is "brain sex"....

Pfffffffrt, how to spoil a discussion in 10 seconds.

Ok, I'll behave, honest...

Now for the real added bit...

When is something porn? Sally said that she is rather old-fashioned, but I couldn't get the gist of where the border is...

For me it's when one or more persons are engaging in an at of sex. (Phew, I managed to phrase that correct). A photograph of a nude body is something I tend to view as Art, admiring the shapes of nature...

But then again, I view nude bodies in general that way... Hey, maybe I'm a-sexual too... Nah... I have already enough on my plate as it is. :rolleyes:

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geez... the one week when I don't have internet access and you guys actually discuss something interesting!

A couple of things to chime in with:

Dreams - recently I've been having a lot of dreams in which I actually have an adult-sized penis and get erections and etc etc. It's like a huge relief and super cool, but then I wake up and it's not true - I just have my testosterone enhanced micropenis. http://www.lauras-playground.com/forums/st...fault/angry.gif

Pornography - for several months after I first got on T, watching porn was really useful in exploring my increasingly male sexuality. It always made me feel uncomfortable and kinda sick to my stomach, though, because it is mostly pretty violent. I mean, there were a few things I viewed that weren't and I really enjoyed watching those when I could find them, but the great majority seemed to be about women pretending like they weren't in awful lot of pain.

Mike

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Guest My_Genesis
When is something porn? Sally said that she is rather old-fashioned, but I couldn't get the gist of where the border is...

For me it's when one or more persons are engaging in an at of sex. (Phew, I managed to phrase that correct).

By that definition, I watch porn pretty much on a regular basis :lol:

That's more like R-rated or MA-rated than porn these days. lol

I would say it depends on how graphic it is. Like I said, there are sex scenes and nudity in R-rated movies all the time, they just don't make it very *graphic*. When it becomes insanely graphic, that's where I think the border is.

And PS, tell me how to have those dreams Huff :P

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Guest CharlieRose

Yeah, that's something I've been wondering a while, too. What is porn, exactly?

Because... I dunno, maybe it's just a personal thing for me, but I find images of two people or characters, whether it's statues, a painting, drawing, or video having sex or nude often has a lot of romantic potential as well as sexual. Maybe I'm just weirdly sensitive, but those two things are often wrapped up quite tightly for me. I don't think I could watch, like, Mighty Aphrodite porn, I imagine it would just be stupid and weird.

But older pornography, like everything from classical homoeroticism to things like The Birth of Venus by Cabanel, I don't know, it has more of a story and more thought put into it, it's certainly romantic, but you can't say, "Oh, that's art, that's not porn," because are they really mutually exclusive? What, you're going to try and tell me Venus isn't sexual? She's the goddess of love and beauty, and look at the way she's lying there!

So I guess my point is that, originally, at least, pornography was a form of art. And when it's recognized as such is a rather beautiful form of art, too.

Oh, and I've never really had a dirty dream, I think I blocked them out when I thought I was asexual. I'm kind of looking forward to experiencing them, as the rest of my... realizing I'm not asexual-ness has been really enlightening.

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this is defo getting interesting.

porn for me is just a way to help me to get off to be blunt! i just imagine im the guy, i dont see it as destructive, more of an aid if you will.

and about my dreams, i always dream im a male in sexual dreams, its awsum

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Guest April63

I don't consider a nude person to be art, but it isn't porn either. It's just a picture of a person without clothes. Porn would be watching people having sex, or performing sexual actions. Hard porn is much more graphic, while soft porn is what you see in a movie.

The problem with a porn addiction is how it causes you to view other people. The more you watch it, the more often you will be thinking about other girls being naked. Guys do it all the time, but more porn causes it to happen more often. Why do we need to be thinking about having sex with people?

Perhaps a better question is, what is wrong with sex? Nothing is wrong with it, but how it is used. Sex is for the creation of children, or the expression of love. Porn doesn't fulfill either of these options. Porn provides fuel for male sex drives, and occasionally for female sex drives. This can just hurt relationships and friendships, and is not something we want or need. This is why you don't see people having sex all over the place in public. Our society has gotten to this point, because it has placed sex in a position where it is kept away, and only used by in private.

I do realize that many of you have made up your minds, but you should consider what porn really is. There is nothing enlightening about it. Perhaps part of the reason many men are ashamed to admit they watch porn is because people know it is just a greedy, selfish act to obtain the highest amount of gratification.

We need more people who agree with me. Come on people. Vote no on porn. Wait, the elections are over.

April

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Guest My_Genesis
this is defo getting interesting.

porn for me is just a way to help me to get off to be blunt! i just imagine im the guy, i dont see it as destructive, more of an aid if you will.

and about my dreams, i always dream im a male in sexual dreams, its awsum

see i don't understand why guys would need an "aid" if their sex drives are so high anyway. That's why I have no use for it :rolleyes:

The "aid" I could use isn't something that porn would help me with. :blush: lol

and lucky you with the dreams. i envy all of you with the dreams. :angry:

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Guest Elizabeth K

Sorry girls and guys - somehow hit the send button on my last post - didn't even have a chance to edit. :huh:

And I have now completely lost the thread here. Since there have been several posts. This topic has 'captain kirked' - gone where no man (or woman) has ever gone before.

Well not exactly true. - but it gave me a chance to use that neat analogy for the first time - ha. :D

So let me finish my line of thought - erotic dreadms/ (original topic) hey - glad you have them, glad I have them. In my opinion they are a natural extension of ourselves as sexul beings. No problem. :P

Porn - I can't say it is bad or good. I can only say from my cosiderable experience it does - as Leo says - helps men get off. Bad or good? Well, as a newly minted T-girl I would hope I was adequate in a relationhip to satisfy a man's need for an erotic attraction/love object. The thought that a male partner to whom I had commited needed additional erotic input from those 'unreal porn sites bimbos' WOULD urine me off MAJOR. :blink:

That said - I do admit I have had a complete turn around on my opinion of porn. It seems I suddenly have a woman's point of view, somehow -how? How can that be? - I have a long way to go in my transition. So I can only guess that this is caused by realizing my vulnerabilities, which suddenly include "competition" with the airbrushed and plasticized 'girls' seen on porn sites. Heck, it seems an impossible situation already that I as a T-girl, I will be competing with natal women. That's puttiing me on the other side for real - competing for attention as a woman against other women AND AGAINST PORN?

That situation in itself is amazing to me. Unimaginable a few months ago... :unsure:

We MTF are so much third class citizens. How can we compete aginst both GGs AND porn?

So - I say I can't say if porn is good or bad but... I HATE IT. :mad:

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Guest April63

How can we compete against porn? Easy, find a man who doesn't watch that vile stuff :)

The real question is, how many noble men are out there who don't watch it?

April

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Guest My_Genesis
We MTF are so much third class citizens. How can we compete aginst both GGs AND porn?

Depends. I personally don't think there is a competition. "Real" women are much more attractive than the ones in porn. i.e. the superficial ones. Deep thinkers like me require more than that :lol:

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I discovered porn when I was young, never thought anything bad of it. B) I'm pretty shallow about myself and the things I watch when I watch porn but in real life I only look for personality in my lovers. I like the old saying 'its better not to have the model wife so you don't have to worry about someone taking them away!' I hope that doesn't offend anyone. LOL

As for 'making woman into objects' part of it I don't seem to get. Perhaps I'm dull, but its never made me look down on woman. So, I'm not againts porn as it hasn't effected me or my choices. It's just sexy time without real contact.

Wow all these long posts made me feel weird to post my short one but oh well.

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We don't need to and I certainly don't want to compete against porn. Men in general do not actually want to spend anytime at all with the inhabitants of the porno films - they watch and get excited, but they would not want to think for a moment that thier wife or girl friend was sitting around the house all day less than half dressed waiting for the pizza delivery guy or the pool boy. No men are more posessive than that. In real relationships the porn queen isn't even a threat, just a diversion. Some men feel a need to watch porn - others don't. If you are offended by anyone who watches porn - don't get involved with one. You have a choice in who you date and spend your life with, choose carefully.

Sally

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Guest My_Genesis

haha well your post was about 3 times as long as mine :P

I don't have much to say about this though other than what i already said...

Although I do think it depends on the reason you're watching porn in the first place and how it affects you. So the way you described it doesn't seem to have a negative impact at all.

IDK, maybe one day when I'm comfortable enough with myself I'd be able to watch porn and not feel totally weird about it. lol

But I also agree with Elizabeth that if you are in a relationship and still really really need porn there might be a problem there. Because if you were with the right person I would think the real thing is loads better than watching something on TV and...all that. :P

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Guest Dutchie
But I also agree with Elizabeth that if you are in a relationship and still really really need porn there might be a problem there. Because if you were with the right person I would think the real thing is loads better than watching something on TV and...all that. :P

Time to jump in again...

In the first sentence you're right, there is a problem when that occurs in a relationship.

But keep in mind that there might be several reasons for that problem, not necessarily the first thing that comes to mind.

What about differences in needs, or (temporary) medical problems?? I prefer my partner to be able to have his needs fulfilled too, and if I can't do it, well, I'd rather prefer he watches porn than going to someone else...

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Guest J-Walker

oO Wow, long topic and off topic. But it's really interesting. XD

Let me state for the record that I have yet to start T and I still think about sex pretty constantly. Maybe 60% of the time, and I have some sort of image that could be considered pornographic on my computer maybe 25% of the time I use it.

THAT being said, it's also proven that men prefer visual stimulus when it comes to erotica and women prefer creative stimulus such as erotic novels.

I do not think porn objectifies women anymore than it objectifies men. I also by no means would rather have a porn star for my partner than a human with a beautiful mind (Although these qualities could be found in the same person). The pleasure of porn does not stem from boredom with one's partner nor does it say that the person watching it finds these people more attractive than their partner. Sometimes watching two people have sex is a turn on.

So yeah, Evan and Stranded ftw. And Elizabeth, unfortunately you girls are sometimes seen as the porn star. Some guys/girls like that, some guys/girls judge for it. Bottom line: anyone who sees a group of people as entirely pornographic has a problem with their perception of reality. I mean, even people into S&M still lead lives. It's not like they carry whips with them everywhere and want to tie up their co-workers. :rolleyes:

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Guest My_Genesis
It's not like they carry whips with them everywhere and want to tie up their co-workers. :rolleyes:

Well what if they have really hot co-workers? :lol:

I do agree with Elizabeth though that you're probably better off with porn than cheating. :P

Maybe I've just gotten so used to being repressed that I don't feel the need to do anything about it since I can't anyway. -_-

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