Exodus 20:16

[VickySGV]

¹⁶You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

Even though I am one of those who thinks that we Christians should never have hijacked the Old Testament, I do see some booby traps in it that are not normally discussed by the fundamentalists when GLBT people are discussed. Why this passage though today??

I was at a coffee shop where three of the food servers know the before and after me, and we are good friends ( I leave good tips) but they were off today, and one of the hostess who only knows Vicky seated me at the counter. The peson beside me was a man whom I had briefly known several years before as a scout leader. He had been some kind of official in his church which was not really fundamentalist, but was by no means progressive. Our relationship had been such that he would not have remembered me as male, so I was not concerned about "coming out" to him, but he was still a some what known quantity. We were near a corner of the counter, and a buddy of his was around the corner where he had to talk a bit louder behind the cashiers back to be heard by my counter mate.

The discussion was about a presentation to a youth group that my besider lead now, and a lesson he was going to give about <drum roll> GLBT people!! It was going to contain all of the negative parts of everything, including HIV and AIDS the immorality, and oh yes, going to Hell. His buddy across the corner did come back to him and mentioned the scientific discoveries, and the psychology issues saying it was not a moral thing to be gay or trans. To which my seat besider replied "I know all that and its probably true but the congregation would never believe it, and pastor might want me to quti." "Oh miss (to me) could you please pass the salt and pepper over here like a good neighbor. I hope we did not offend you talking abou that homosexual stuff." -- I passed, so I went ahead and passed the S&P without comment. He overlooked or did not see the sour look I had.

He knows that he will be telling falsehoods to a group of people, and while he did not read me as trans, he did acknowledge me as his neighbor. In the very real sense, he will be giving false witness against a neighbor. Some small part of me wishes my other friends who know me had been there and I could have written Exodus 20:16 on his paper napkin. I don't think he would have gotten it.

Does this scripture fit what we hear a lot?? I vote yes.

[Guest LizMarie]

Yes it does, Vicky. Let me link something for you to think about. Republican Support Is The Problem. The author is Cristan Williams a lesbian trans woman here in the Houston area. I know Cristan, have attended TG support meetings led by her, and I admire her a great deal. And I agree with her points. The Republicans have not gotten better about GLBT issues since the "Log Cabin" Republicans first formed 30 or so years ago. Indeed, they've gotten worse. And that party now openly encompasses people who wear their bigotry on their sleeve as a badge of honor. The only solution for these people is for us to push back and hard. Once GLBT recognition and acceptance reaches critical mass, the Republican party will either have to change or become extinct. That won't be overnight but compromising with people who openly hate us is a prescription for disaster.

Personally, I would have said something to the man but that's just me.

[Guest KimberlyF]

My fav bible quotes because I don't know what is truly in ones soul. (They work well with any debate on anything)

John 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

Romans 2:1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.

Matthew 7:1 Do not judge, or you too will be judged.

Maybe this man was at a moral crossroads and looking for strength. He demonstrated that he know his words could be controversial.

We all have weaknesses. He is concerned about losing his position working with these kids so he feels forced into this. I don't know. I am not him and I can't control him. But I do control me. And something Im working on is how I'd react in a situation like that. I hope like LizMarie that I too would have said something to the guy but that's just a hope.

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

[Guest DanD]

you can find quotes to use for any position you wanted about anything.

You're right, he is like the pharissees who Jesus despised, because they were supoposed to be their leaders but they were just a bunch of power hungry hypcrites.

Bugs me when people use the Bible or some little phrase from it to promote anything negative.

Also bugs me when people who dont know what the terms and stories mean, use them and mistuse them out of ignorance.

Many of these people should know better since they pretend to be such experts on the book.

its just beyond me how you can sit down with a book, and read it front to back and walk away with a totally screwed up twisted view on things from it that it never ever expressed nor intended for the reader.

lot of these people have poorer reading comprehension skills than I am at typing. (im sure youve all noticed i type terribly by now..you just have to decypher if i forget to edit and correct stuff, typos run rampant.)