If Israel goes to war with Iran should I immigrate there and join the military?

[Guest RainbowGoth98]

I'm a proud Daughter of Abraham and will defend my Motherland with my life. My only concern is that Iran will be a big pile of ruble before I can book a flight.

[Carolyn Marie]

Let's just hope it doesn't come to that, Courtney. I think cooler heads will prevail in the end. I also think you're right; it would be over before you could say the words, "El Al."

Carolyn Marie

[Guest Sentience]

When I re-incarnate may my sentience dwell in a world without religion.

[Guest ~Brenda~]

War is a very serious matter. The justification for war may be spun to appear it is for nationalism or beliefs, but that is never the real reason for war. The one and only real reason for war is economic power. Those who propagate war cynically prey on the belief systems of the average person. I am sorry to sound so dogmatic, but to witness so many wars in my lifetime and the rhetoric surrounding them has made me suspicious about the true reasons behind war.

Do we all remember President Bush's claims for invading Iraq? WMD....yea, we found so many, and the world was in danger..not.

Anyway, back on point, Courtney you are 14 and way too young to take up arms. Let's hope that when you are older, you don't need to worry about taking up arms. To answer your question specifically, I would say no.

I am afraid that if Isreal and Iran get involved in a serious conflict, that will precipitate the end for all of us.

Gosh....I am so sorry to seem so gloomy.

Brenda

[Guest lostflower]

You know in 1930's Germany insane patriotism caused a millions of people got thrown out of their homes,oppressed, denied human right and slaughtered like animals, remind me who they were and now they practice the same sort of things on others, Before you start Palestinians have done no less terrible deeds killing innocents in the name of reprisal some for some misdeed real or imagined terrible, I won't get into that but both sides have suffered appallingly at the hands of others and now perpetuate that suffering by continuing to inflict it on each other years after the original transgression was done.

sometime I think we should just nuke and poison the place with heavy metals and poisons to the point that it was uninhabitable forever, rather than waste lives in a stupid jingoistic crusade for a pathetic spit of desert in the middle of nowhere, lives are worth more than earth, a country is not it's land but its people, humanity as a whole would be better off without the "holy land"

Hannah

[KathrynJulia]

Rainbow

In 1973, I was a young Private in the US Army stationed at Ft Carson Colorado. We were downrange training at Tank Gunnery when we were ordered to Butt's Army Airfield. We watched C5A Aircraft landing and we loaded a one tank and a crew per aircraft. And there we sat. They locked down Ft Carson, no-one in or out for 5 days. Civilians included. It was the Yom Kipper war and the Israeli Army was surrounded and facing defeat. We were the tank battalion that was on call in the US.

The U.S. was prepared to step in to save Israel from defeat. Two years later, I talked to an Israeli Officer who participated in a huge tank battle where the Israeli Army defeated the Egyptian Army and how they did it. We weren't needed, but were kept on standby. What Iran is doing is making the same mistake that Egypt and Syria made. Their equipment was Soviet made. Israel uses the best equipment that America can send them. The Yom Kipper war was won because the Israeli tank gunners stood off and killed Egyptian tanks in the desert killing them at 5000 meters with a 90% first shot kill ratio. The Egyptians had to be within 1200 yards with a 50% kill ratio at that range. The Israeli's killed them until they got within range and then turned tail and outran the Egyptians, Turned around and did it all over again. Superior equipment won the day.

The Iranians are, despite their rhetoric, are ill prepared to defeat Israel. And the U.S., despite Obama's coolness towards Israel, will not allow Israel to fall. If Obama allowed Israel to lose, he would be impeached and the Democrats would be damaged for decades. Plus you would need to be trained. Most Israelis are trained to become soldiers if need be at 18 years of age. They have mandatory draft laws for both sexes in Israel. So we hope they never need you Rainbow, but I respect your sentiments. Kathryn

[Guest ~Brenda~]

OK everyone, let's keep a cool head on this topic. I am afraid that I did not help matters with my own post. Let's stick to the question at hand and not get embroiled into a debate about the middle east and war.

If needed, I will retract my previous post.

Brenda

[JJ]

Let this be a battle between sovereign states-between countries and not ideologies or religions. Just because two countries cannot resolve their differences doesn't mean that members of the predominant religion in those countries have to rush to the fight. No war was ever simple or what it appeared to be and no county has clean hands. I have long been a supporter of Israel and felt they were handed a real mess in an attempt to salve the conscience of the world but at the same time their hands have not always been clean and there have been things I could not support.

I would never condone blindly declaring allegiance to any country or individual on a religious basis. Or any other basis actually. We are rational being who should judge political situations differently than religious convictions. Our future as a civilization probably will ultimately depend on us doing that in my opinion.

Each of us may have different opinions about this situation but we owe it to one another and to ourselves to respect the person regardless of their opinion and treat them and their post with respect even when we disagree.

Johnny

[Guest RainbowGoth98]

This is different the jews have ancient ties to that land

[JJ]

My ancestors have ancient ties to lands too-I can trace some back almost 2000 years- but that doesn't mean I have to fight for the government of that land. One of the real problems with that is that many of the religions of the world have ties to that land and were all to become embroiled in this and begin to react on a religious rather than a political basis then there would be no hope for the world.

This is a political war and not a war about religious ties regardless of the terms in which it is couched. Those are ideals that men are using to manipulate people but not the real reasons for the conflict. Is the leader of Israel the leader of the world's Jews? Of course not. In fact it is my understanding that the government of Israel refuses to even recognize the legitimacy of many of the Jews in the world. That government does not demand or arguably in many cases want or deserve your allegiance strictly on a religious basis.

Johnny

[Carolyn Marie]

Two things I would like to point out here: first, we are talking about something (a war between Iran and Israel) that hasn't happened yet, and hopefully won't happen; and two, don't assume that there is only one view of things even within Israel. That's a mistake that the Republicans repeatedly made during the campaign. There is no one policy or one united point of view in Israeli politics. There is a strong peace movement within Israel which objects to the way that the Palestinians have been treated. There are at least two, and I believe more, strong political parties, too. So which side should we support? Which represents the "real" Israel? It's like asking whether Democrats or Republicans represent the "real" America.

Middle East politics is complicated. So complicated that the best diplomats in the world haven't figured it out in over 50 years of trying. We certainly aren't going to settle it in this thread. So keep your hats and your yarmulkes on your heads and your tempers under control. I'll propose a toast to all: l'chaim! (to life!)

HUGS

Carolyn Marie

[Guest Chrysee]

Your question was should you join the military.

Answer: "Hell no!"

[Guest Angelica Alice]

I hope that there isn't a war between them cause the US will get involved. I will support you my friend. You have my support I'M AFRAID of death so wars are icky for me.

[Guest artistformelyknownasnicole]

Iran is not the enemy. Don't give into all the propaganda.

[MaryEllen]

Keep it civil, folks.

MaryEllen

[Charlize]

Sorry but war is never the answer to these problems or any others. I only hope that we can't find the need to make more of the world hate us by flexing our muscles. I have to believe that the sword rattling is a symptom of testosterone gone wild. We have not managed to stay out of conflicts for so many years. Self defense is one thing but we have certainly crossed that line. Sorry and i know many will disagree but i'm an old hippie that believes that things can be worked out without killing each other.

Peace,

Charlie

[Guest]

I raise my hand in a peace sign to you Charlie, one old hippie to another. Hug. Jody

[JJ]

Charlie I agree with you about saber rattling. Responsible for many bad episodes and ills in the world. But not about it being T fueled. It is my understanding that it has now been scientifically proven that T does not up aggression and that women are as aggressive as men when tested with non gender biased criteria. They express it much differently being less direct and more likely to act as a group but they are no less aggressive.

As I mentioned in another posts the frequency of conflict and wars actually has risen steadily in conjunction with women voting. Not just in the US. Something we discussed at length in some of my Poly Sci classes. Back then my professor was postulating that women were just as aggressive as men based on historical data. Interesting to see that his hypothesis has been borne out decades later.

This is not a positive or negative thing to me. Just a fact of life. We are an aggressive species. We are also a rational species capable of self control. Hopefully the latter will win out.

On a side note it kind of amused me to realize how we all jumped in on this without answering the obvious. Military service is open to trangenders in the Israeli army but you must be 18 to enlist. There is also a requirement that you become an Israeli citizen though programs are available for non citizens they are not the same. Bottom line is you can't join and fight till you are 18.

[JJ]

In retrospect my posts here have been bothering me a great deal and I feel a need to apologize.

I am deeply opposed to Jingoism. It has taken so many tens and probably hundreds of thousands of lives. In my early adulthood I saw too many the best and most idealistic of my generation sacrificed to it and have watched those who didn't actually die have their lives overshadowed by it's aftermath both physically and psychologically. I am not apologizing for my opposition to blindly supporting any country or government in war.

But I am aware that Israel has a special and unique place in the culture and religion of Jewish people and my comments did not reflect sensitivity or even my real sentiments toward that. It is a very complex situation. I apologize if I offended anyone. No one has said anything or prompted this apology except my own feelings of having offended my own sensibilities and been less respectful than I would wish to be.

I had been more ill than I had been in years and was still more ill than I realized at the time. Which is an explanation and not an excuse. It in no way ameliorate what was said or my need to apologize.

Thanks for understanding and peace all around

Johnny

[Guest LizMarie]

Courtney, as someone with over 8 years active duty military experience a long time ago, let me tell you that there is nothing heroic or pretty or wonderful about war. War is ugly, dirty, violent, horrific. It will frighten you, test you, and scar you in ways that you cannot even envision. War should only be chosen as a last resort. The wounds of war will walk with you forever, even if none are external. You have a choice. Don't go.

[VickySGV]

For those of us with a bookshelf a couple of feet wide filled with texts on International Law, the definition of war is "Controlled violence for the purpose of attaining a political objective". Thats what a couple of my text books both say. I agree that there is violence going on over there, lets merely hope it will stay controlled, and the political objective can be met in ways that are dreadfully boring at a conference table sooner than later.

The problem is that actually the Islamic's of any country in that area are also Children Of Abraham, just through his son Ishmael, and not Isaac. Old Abby's family is just a bit dysfunctional, but we all have families like that.

While people as young as 14 do fight in wars in some places, darn few of them live to be 15 or more. "Cannon fodder" is the word of the day.