I Have Been Doing A Lot Of Serious Thinking About Religion

[Sally]

I have watched Conservatives using their religious beliefs - mostly Christianity as a means of justifying so much bigotry and exclusions of various groups from simple things like marriage contracts (it is all about having to pay survivor benefits to spouses and not same sex partners) - not wanting to fund social programs like welfare, food stamps and health care (there are abuses of the system - there always will be) that I have had to go back and reexamine my own religious beliefs.

I have always called myself a Christian, a liberal Christian and we do seem to be rare but now I wonder how it is possible to be a Christian while supporting a conservative political agenda and I finally figured it out.

Christ is a title not a name so in becoming a Christian many people do not realize that it is always Jesus the Christ and not Jesus Christ - this distinction is very important for me as I am going to start a new religion, call me a Jesusian!

Because Jesus was very liberal, socialist or even communist to the minds of the conservatives, feeding the masses, healing the sick without collecting any payment - definitely not conservative values so I will leave them to worship the title while myself I am going to try to follow the teachings of the man himself - he taught love and compassion for all of mankind.

It is not a quick road to riches or any involvement in politics at all, remember that he believed in a separation of Church and State - render unto Cesar that which is Cesar's and unto God that which is God's.

It is a small religion - just me so far and I will not be applying for any tax exemptions - I will render unto Cesar.

Love in all of its many meanings,

Sally

[Guest]

For me, God is my Higher Power and it's spiritual, not religious. Jesus is his risen earthly son. That would be my brother. I love and admire my brother and want to be a good example of his love. It's a love affair with God. Not dogma, laws, All American copy cats, assumptions, accusations, stereotypes and exclusions. Jesus didn't tell me to march in step, just healed me for free. Me loving God and wanting to be closer and please. I have a reward for that I want dearly and it isn't instant coffee...

They seem to have something far different. I am not going to pull my Bible out of my bra, but they won't pull God out of my heart. If they get mean I may slap them with the AA Big Book in my purse. Giggle. The only time Christianity is a bad word, is when they want to use it as a weapon.

Sally, if you need to split rent on a meeting hall, my little church can bring a congregation of one. I worship first thing in the morning and last thing at night. I promise no singing... LOL!

Space is Grace. Hug. JodyAnn

[VickySGV]

Google up The Rebel Jesus by Jackson Browne (it was original music on The Chieftain's Bells Of Dublin album a few years ago). It would make a great theme song for your religious belief system Sally. I had it on my stereo box about half and hour ago. I like to play it during the Xmas rush because it grounds me fairly well.

[Guest JenniferR]

There are only two people in the bible who have a serious problem playing well with others. That is Moses & Paul. I have already taken Paul entirely out of my bible, but if I were to take the old testament out, my bible would fall apart. If you look at these two people, however, and truly study them, you'll find that they both had one thing in common...They were both hungry for power. Moses grew up among the most powerful people in Egypt. I believe that once he realized that he couldn't be Pharoh, he decided to take "his" people (who until that point had been his slaves) and led them out of Egypt. All of a sudden, he had dictator status of an entire nation. I may be wrong, but I don't believe that the laws he set were of God, but his own instead. Every nation needs laws for it to function, and if you look at what God supposedly told Moses to do, you really have to question who this God really is. If you open your bible to Deut. 20:10-15, you'll see just one example. If that is not from Moses, then I think Moses probably should have shopped around a little more before picking a God.

As far as Paul, his original name was Saul, and he was in charge of rounding up all the Christians to be killed in the gladiator games, or other means. It wasn't until Christianity was becoming a really huge movement that he finally decided to join. He even took a position as one of the 12 disciples! Jesus never said anything about people like us. In Rome, at that time, it was considered natural. He certainly would have run into people like us all the time, yet never mentioned one word about it. Paul, however, was the opposite. He was extremely vocal on what he thought God should hate. Another interesting tidbit on Paul, is that he also hated women. If you ever get the chance I recommend reading the Apocryphal text about Thecla. She absolutely adored Paul, but he couldn't stand her. Anyway, to make a long story short, I hope that none of you ever feel that God doesn't love you. It is God's son who we must go through to get into heaven, and he is silent on the subject. If he had any problems whatsoever, he would have said so. All we need to do is to treat others the way we would like to be treated, and when the time comes, you will hear him say "Welcome Home".

[Guest]

Hi Jennifer, The "welcome home" is my light at the end of the tunnel. I really dig Moses, he went through so much, which proved to me he was completely human with all the faults I have had. He had to learn some really tough lessons, much more so than I will ever have to. He is also the most influential at empowering me to come out to the world and be me.

I had one fault that was like Saul. I attacked peoples dignity and attempted murder on their sense of well being. I had to prove I was right at all cost. Then like Paul, I had to reverse 180 degrees and change my behavior. I still make amends for that one. Now I get to wear the other pair of shoes. Honey, they are not anywhere comfortable like house slippers. But I have to keep walking through life.

The Old Testament is so confusing and depressing. I have had to cling to Jesus and love the New Testament for so many years, just to figure out why the OT is even in there. I often still wonder. My little oven light bulb may be well lit by the lime I get to the door. Giggle. Hug, Jody

PS---Is there such a thing as a Holy War with no bloodshed? I could be a warrior for that one. JT

[Sally]

Sorry, Jody but wars by definition involve fighting and killing - otherwise they are just contests.

Therefore, at least in my mind there has never been and there can never be a Holy War.

Love ya,

Sally

[Guest]

Good morning Sally, I won't fight over that one. I think you are right. Giggle. LuvU2. Jody.

[Guest rikkicd64]

Wow, good post Sally. Very strange, I had a similar discussion at church this past Sunday with 3 lesbian women about Jesus and how radical his teaching and comandments for us seemed to be. Imagine, love one another!!!!!

Rikki...

[Guest KimberlyF]

When I hear these discussions and the quote of Ceaser, I take it to mean Jesus cared not for the Governments of this world.

Later in Matthew 22 it goes on with:

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

People should treat those around them like they want to be treated. You don't wait for the government to step up to carry your elderly neighbor's groceries. There was no Dept of Fish Distribution when Jesus fed the 5000.

This is one of the more popular versus expanded a little from Corinthians 13:

3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.

5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.

6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.

7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part,

10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.

11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me.

12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

You can give all of your time and money to others, but if you are not doing it for the right reasons, to boast about it, it doesn't matter. I can not on sight judge the love in one's heart. I do not know if they are good or evil.

Matthew 7:

Do not judge, or you too will be judged.

2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?

5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

Time after time he has repeated the same message. Take care of your own business. Don't think you are better than others. Don't worry about the sins of others when you yourself are flawed. Treat others how you yourself would want to be treated.

[Guest LizMarie]

For me, the Old Testament existed simply to provide the proof of Jesus. Jesus came, fulfilled what no ordinary human could fulfill, and thereby set aside the old covenant (Old Testament). Anyone who still clings to the Old Testament, other than as a sort of religious historical document, is, in my opinion, completely missing the point Jesus made.

Jesus gave us very few commands - love the Lord with all your heart, love one another as you love yourself, and forgive one another. Those three rules are my "Jesus guide to living" now more than ever. I deliberately ignore Paul and his misogynistic attitudes. And that is the basis of my personal religious beliefs. I think you and I see things in a similar light, Sally.

[Guest JenniferR]

I totally agree LizMarie. While most people wouldn't go this far, I have taken Paul totally out of my bible. I did so, not to upset anyone, but so I can stick to what Jesus said, rather than get hung up on Paul's Old Testament rehashing. Here's an example: Paul mentions about homosexuality being wrong...When Jesus, who would have been totally surrounded by it in Roman society never said a word. The only source for that statement comes from Moses. JodyAnn, I agree with you as well. Moses was human, and he did just as any one of us would probably do in his situation. I, of course, was not there, but I have my own theories about why he led the Jews out of Egypt in the first place. Granted, I could be wrong, but please hear me out... Moses grew up in the palace in Egypt. All throughout his youth, he enjoyed the spoils of Egyptian riches. Of course he would have been well aware that jews were enslaved there, but why did it take him so long to care? I think it is because he is human. He got sucked into the life of luxury, until he realized that his brother was the one to become pharoh, not him. I think it was then that he decided to take the jews out of their enslavement, so that he could still retain a dictator's power over a nation of his own. If it were anyone else, I believe they would have done the very same thing in his shoes. I really hope I haven't offended anyone here...I apologize if I have, for that was not my intention. I'm only throwing ideas out there, that's all.

[Guest JenniferR]

I would just like to add, that my most favorite character in the Bible (besides Jesus, of course) would be Daniel. I don't know if any of you have read the apocraphal text "The History of Bel and The Dragon", but I really recommend it. It shows a far more dynamic side of Daniel than what is contained in scriptures. At that time, as with every civilization, tricks were used by very powerful people (priests) to bring people in to their particular temples to believe in whatever God the temple was built for. If you can imagine it, it was most likely done. Daniel, however, believing his God to be the one and only, went about proving these other Gods as false in front of not only the masses, but the king himself! Of course, at that time, Priests were not the sort of people you wanted to pick a fight with...They were some of the wealthiest, most powerful people of his time. That was how, according to that story, he wound up in the Lion's den. It's a great story! I highly recommend it!