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Hello From An Advisor


jacob82b

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Sorry, MaryEllen. I believe I started my reply before your post appeared.

I have not thrown out the idea of telling Tim of this site, but I am waiting to tell him. I am just finishing my research on this, and trying to find out what the best way of telling his parents is. After that I may tell him, but I am not sure if it is the best option. While this place does appear to be very friendly concerning transgender issues, other issues, such as religion, are not treated just as well. I am not sure whether or not if would be best to send him here where he may have multiple issues, gender, religion, and perhaps more, challenging him at the same time.

I hope you can understand what I mean.

Jacob

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Guest StrandedOutThere
Tim came to me and asked if his thoughts and feelings were normal and if they were alright to have. He said that he had desires to have a female body and wear feminine clothes. He stated that he felt more comfortable and enjoyed himself better while chatting with other girls, not boys. I do not believe that he was trying to confide in me, but was only looking for advice about whether or not it was okay in the church, and what he should do about his thoughts.

I did ask him why he didn't tell his father, and said that he was afraid that it would wreck their relationship. Tim has a fairly masculine persona, and he does not want his father to treat him like a wimp. I believe that his father could give him better guidance than I can. We just need to make sure that there is communication between the two of them, and I do not believe that Tim wants to start this communication.

Okay, so which part of what Tim said to you included a desire for you to get involved and tell zer father? It sounds like there ze expressed a pretty clear desire for you NOT to do that. When you say "we need to make sure there is a line of communication between the two of them", who is "we"? You and Tim? If Tim doesn't want to start that communication, it is probably for a reason. If you feel compelled to be involved, why can't you and Tim go together to talk to zer father? It sounds like you are willing to compel Tim to talk to zer father, like it or not.

There seems to be a lot of doubt in what you're writing. You haven't known a transgendered person before and you don't know what to do. We're transgendered people. We've dealt with this a lot. We're all giving you reasonable advice. Everyone has said not to go behind Tim's back and talk to zer father. Those kinds of things often don't turn out well. They are permanently damaging.

The way you are talking about this situation suggests to me that you think what Tim has said is pretty serious and awful. I mean, it sounds like, despite Tim's wishes, that you feel compelled to go to zer parents. Is there some reason why you can't give Tim access to resources to draw zer own conclusions?

You say that this site doesn't treat issues of religion particularly well. This is an open forum where people can express their beliefs. People might argue, but that's part of open discussion between people with different beliefs. I'm pretty sure there are people here from several different religions, and there are also people who are atheists. There are probably some others here with a little bit of bitterness toward the church (I would include myself in that group). That's not a matter of not treating religion "fairly" in discussions. That's just a matter of having people that don't all agree.

In my case, the church's and my family's negative views about homosexual and transgendered people led me to hide my feelings and true self for most of my life. The way many churches treat us is what drives so many away from the church and causes people to feel a lot of bitterness against religion in general. Consider this: if you forcibly out Tim to zer father and it results in a traumatic, horrible experience, what then? That's not going to make Tim feel safe or loved by the church? If anything, that's likely to add in some serious confusion and isn't going to foster feelings of warmness toward the church.

What's the big deal about giving Tim the URL for this site? If your church has done its job and brought up a god-fearing, upstanding young person, why do you need to shield Tim from good things like knowledge and open discussion? Is free access to information damaging somehow? Doesn't Matthew 5:14 - 16 say:

"You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.

It sounds like you are trying to put Tim's light under a bowl. If Tim's faith is strong, then talking to others who may not share zer beliefs isn't going to be confusing. What kind of testimony is that if you have to hide your young people? You didn't say how old Tim is, but I'm guessing ze is an adolescent. If that is the case, ze should be old enough to think independently. Life's tough. This probably won't be the first or last time Tim has to confront multiple issues at the same time. Pardon me for wording this a little strongly, but it doesn't sound like you are being an "advisor". If you did that it would mean that you worked with Tim and discussed things. You are acting like a "leader". Yes, you are taking time to seek out information, but in the end, you sound like you are willing to make a decision and then let Tim deal with the consequences.

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Guest Cody_T

Jacob

I know it's hard for most people to understand, but there is hardly anything more painful and earth shattering than having your parents find out that you're trans. Even after years of careful consideration, if you've finally come to embrace the fact that there is nothing wrong with you, that you're not sick or perverted, that there's nothing to be ashamed of, you still have to face the reality of having let down the only people you thought you could count on to support you.

Almost always, you'll find that they only meant they'll always support you if you're who they want you to be. Losing that parental support while you're living at home is terrible. And even if they do take it well, it's extremely awkward to try and live with people who will be analyzing your every move through the trans filter.

Now imagine a kid like Tim, who doesn't know much about hirself, who hasn't had much of a chance to even process it. If you make hir discuss something that ze's not ready to discuss with hir parents, at best it will cause hir to retreat into hirself. It's hard enough to understand being trans when you are. For parents to know, it's best if their child can teach them at least a little bit of what's necessary. At least, their kid will have to talk about it, and that's hard for someone who's still unsure, ashamed, or whatever it may be.

DO NOT tell Tim's parents. Please. For me, for everyone here, for all of the trans kids throughout the world who would tell you the exact same thing. For Tim's sake.

My parents found out last fall when I was 17. There is nothing in the world that I would have liked less, and I still wish all the time that they didn't know yet. I've stopped talking to them as much; I'm shorter with my mom, I'm more self conscious around my dad. I don't mean to be, but the immense pressure I feel whenever I'm talking to them scares me. I can't talk around them without second guessing my pronouns, and I always feel like a failure around. When they found out, I wasn't confident enough to deal with it and I let them push me around. Now, I could talk to them- but I'm not going to. I missed that chance, and as much as this is a self imposed limitation, it's also the truth. Please don't do this to Tim. Let hir dictate hir own life.

Talk to hir. If ze wants to come out to hir parents then that's more power to hir. If not, then don't push it. Trans people will all have to come out to their parents eventually, but like so many other people mentioned, there needs to be a pressing reason to risk what coming out as trans risks. I would assume that Tim is dependent on hir parents. The big rule of coming out, no matter how accepting you think a parent might be, is to have a backup plan. So if ze is, it's a no go. Even if not, don't do it without permission. How would you feel if you confided a secret to someone and that person destroyed your family?

Talk to Tim, not hir father. Please.

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Guest bronx

Jacob-

I really tried to stay away from this but I feel as though I have a few things to say. First of all I would like to thahk you for taking the time to try and understand us. I recently got baptized into the church and accepted Jesus as my savior. I'm also a trans man, I was born a woman and has trantioned to a man. I pass 100%. It was a journey in both myself as a man and with my relationship with Christ. I am 37 yrs old. Tim is still a young woman and I think that you should take a step back and remember how you were when you were young, how you wanted to trust certian adults about things that you just couldn't tell your parents about. This is a huge thing and she needs to tell her parents on her time not yours, this is not about you, this is about her and her parents and her faith. SLOW DOWN!! Trust in God and her and know that God will guide her in the right direction.

Angel

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I did ask him why he didn't tell his father, and said that he was afraid that it would wreck their relationship. Tim has a fairly masculine persona, and he does not want his father to treat him like a wimp. I believe that his father could give him better guidance than I can. We just need to make sure that there is communication between the two of them, and I do not believe that Tim wants to start this communication.

Jacob

Dear Jacob,

It seems that Tim has shown a desire not to tell the father just now and I believe that Tim told you to get more information and learn the church's stand before 'coming out' to the father.

I believe that in order to keep the confidence of Tim and the others who will no doubt hear all about it if it does not go well you should not tell tim's father without letting Tim know first.

No binding legal, ethical or moral issue here, just a friendship that obviously is very strong in Tim's mind - telling Tim's father could seem to Tim like a break of a truxt and damage a friendship that Tim needs now and will need in the future if it is determined that Tim is in fact transsexual.

I would hope that you would think very carefully and consult Tim bfore speaking to Tim's father.

You must do what you feel is right, I hope that it is what is rigth for Tim as well.

Helping youth is a tricky business at best, good luck and I hope everything works out well for both you and Tim and that your friendship can continue,

Sally

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Guest PatrickLee

Let me first start off by welcoming you. I have not had the will power to join in this discussion before now. I was just going to let the people who have been on here longer and know what they are talking about handle you questions, but I found that I was confused on certain matters and mayber you can help clear them up...

Thank you for choosing to come to Laura's. I know you haven't had the best experience on here, but it is a great place to be welcomed and loved. Let me tell you about myself and maybe that will help you with some of your decissions. (I have always found listening to other's mistakes or conquests help clear my mind.)

I'm an eighteen year old transman. You would look at me and call me a woman. Although, I am a man inside this body.

It took me all of five seconds in my youth for me to decide that I would be better off in a man's body. It took me the next five seconds to tell myself that my parents, friends, and God could not accept me if I were to tell other people that.

From the age of twelve (puperty) to the age of eighteen, I hated myself and the feelings attached with my body. I hated my body and wanted it to change. I hated the thought of wanting it to change. I cut myself for those years inbetween when I could find no other source of release. I took pain killers to ease the mental hurricane. I thought constantly of suicide but was to much of a coward to do it.

Around my eighteenth birthday, I quit. I quit hating myself, quit abusing myself, quit all negitve thoughts about myself. How? I accepted God into my life and asked him to guide me.

I am now two months past that. I have come to terms that God doesn't want me unhappy, no matter what. If I was unhappy, then I could not spred His word to others.

I have friends, both on this site and in my outside life, that love and accept the real me.

If this is wrong, then I have to go back to living a lie, and I don't think I would live at all. Mentally or phisically.

This was a bit much, I know.

I wonder what you are thinking, Jacob. I worry about Tim and hope she is okay.

This was all just to show you how her life could be.

Does your church not agree with her being who she truely wants to be?

I have read your posts and am a little bit confused... Can she become a true woman or not in your church's eyes?

I don't mean to sound sarcastic or mean, these are honest questions.

Tim came to me and asked if his thoughts and feelings were normal and if they were alright to have. He said that he had desires to have a female body and wear feminine clothes. He stated that he felt more comfortable and enjoyed himself better while chatting with other girls, not boys. I do not believe that he was trying to confide in me, but was only looking for advice about whether or not it was okay in the church, and what he should do about his thoughts.

I really hate to break this to you, Jacob, but this is confiding in someone. She expressed her thoughts and feelings to you that she had not shared with anyone else. She took the trust she has in you and cast her fear aside to tell you something that she needed advice on.

I did ask him why he didn't tell his father, and said that he was afraid that it would wreck their relationship.

This is exactly why she came to you. She did not want to "wreck" her relationship with her father. She needed council from person she trusts. She wanting to talk to someone who would listen to her and tell her its okay... without her parents knowing. A lot of teenagers do this in a lot of different occurrences. Its called being the "fall" guy. There is a lot of responsibility that comes with that. For example: if she wanted her father to know just let, she would have told him insted of coming to you. You need to understand that she is trusting you to keep this between the two of you. I'm sorry if it seems that we're forcing that down your throat.

Tim has a fairly masculine persona, and he does not want his father to treat him like a wimp. I believe that his father could give him better guidance than I can. We just need to make sure that there is communication between the two of them, and I do not believe that Tim wants to start this communication.

If Tim does not wish to start the communication, why do you? Who is the 'we' that you are talking about? Sorry, I'm just a bit confused.

Jacob

Sorry, MaryEllen. I believe I started my reply before your post appeared.

I have not thrown out the idea of telling Tim of this site, but I am waiting to tell him. I am just finishing my research on this, and trying to find out what the best way of telling his parents is. After that I may tell him, but I am not sure if it is the best option. While this place does appear to be very friendly concerning transgender issues, other issues, such as religion, are not treated just as well.

Have you checked out the forum just for religion? There are many more posts on there that might help convince you that this is a great place to be

I am not sure whether or not if would be best to send him here where he may have multiple issues, gender, religion, and perhaps more, challenging him at the same time.

This is what this site is for. To help people, young and elderly to understand the issues the the transsexual communitee has and to assist in the overcoming of obsitcles in our path of being who we truely wish to be.

I hope you can understand what I mean.

Jacob

I truely hope that everything works out okay. I will prey for you, Tim, and her parents.

Thank you again and I hope that you can answer my questions.

Patrick

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Guest Selkia

I have Only read the first page of posts,

So I am sorry if the Whole topic has changed or wither an action has been desided.

But this is my Input.

Since I do not see a Location or a country flag my info may not be of great use.

If you( Jacob) and Tim are Located In Canada I Know of Groups for trans Youth. And If this is the case, It is possible to have a member from the Trans Group team come and Teach you and all the other Advisors A Little bit more about the Topic of Transpeople, this will help if another Trans Youth was to be in your Church, and Perhaps even Help all of the other youth Understand what Trans People go through. This would give Tim the chance to talk to someone who understands what She is going through.

As I agree with what many of the members of Laura's Playground have said today that forcing a Gender and also trying to tell tim what she feels is a sin should be completely out of the question.

I also have to Object with Telling Tim's Parents about their daughter's feelings you should let Tim graduly build up Her strenght and courge to tell her parent's in time when she feels ready. (because a phone call or telling this to a parent might make their child feel as though this is wrong and they might Force Tim to be something she is not.. also one thing that can ruin Tim's life and put her life at risk is the Rage and anger of a Parent who hates their child for this..or to teach their child a harsh lesson, Abusive Parents are out there and many people don't know what goes on behind closed doors, adding pyhscial pain to the already tormendious Emotional pain/Confusion that Tim is probbly already feeling, could lead Tim into Suicidal thoughts which could lead to suicide or even a failed suicide atempt which haunts and can ruin a person's life making them wrost off then before.

That is my advice on this subject, I sure hope this has helped you some what, if not I am sure that one of the many helpful members on the site shall be able to help..

-Sel

Ps. I am glad to see that you are trying to help Tim, instead of just jumping to one decision

Also ^_^ It is great that you are an advisor at a Church I still remember my Church Advisor.

(also I must really also Agree with MaryEllen on giving Tim the Url to this site, it will let Her know she is not alone. and she would be able to get anwsers to her questions)

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  • Root Admin
Sorry, MaryEllen. I believe I started my reply before your post appeared.

I have not thrown out the idea of telling Tim of this site, but I am waiting to tell him. I am just finishing my research on this, and trying to find out what the best way of telling his parents is. After that I may tell him, but I am not sure if it is the best option. While this place does appear to be very friendly concerning transgender issues, other issues, such as religion, are not treated just as well. I am not sure whether or not if would be best to send him here where he may have multiple issues, gender, religion, and perhaps more, challenging him at the same time.

I hope you can understand what I mean.

Jacob

Yes, Jacob. I'm afraid I do understand exactly what you mean. I will pray for Tim.

MaryEllen

I am a Born Again Christian btw

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Guest julia_d
While this place does appear to be very friendly concerning transgender issues, other issues, such as religion, are not treated just as well. I am not sure whether or not if would be best to send him here where he may have multiple issues, gender, religion, and perhaps more, challenging him at the same time.

What are you frightened of? Access to information is a right which every person in the free world should be allowed. You DO NOT tell somebodys parents without their express permission... never ever.. That's a breach of confidence.. Sanctity and confidentiality of the confession.. heard that? You have already broken that trust by talking with others about the matter.

I feel sorry for "Tim" that she trusted you.. because it's becoming plain that you shouldn't be trusted with anything of any importance or relevance.

You were asked for help and guidance.. well you found help, and you found a link to all the resources that you were asked to find. As for guidance, I don't think you are qualified to give any. There are professional therapists for that kind of thing... trained ethical professionals.

And I didn't mention religion once XD

I suggest you hand the information over to "Tim" and leave it at that. It's up to her to decide what she wants to do, and who she wants to tell.

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Sorry, MaryEllen. I believe I started my reply before your post appeared.

I have not thrown out the idea of telling Tim of this site, but I am waiting to tell him. I am just finishing my research on this, and trying to find out what the best way of telling his parents is. After that I may tell him, but I am not sure if it is the best option. While this place does appear to be very friendly concerning transgender issues, other issues, such as religion, are not treated just as well. I am not sure whether or not if would be best to send him here where he may have multiple issues, gender, religion, and perhaps more, challenging him at the same time.

I hope you can understand what I mean.

Jacob

Dear Jacob,

I am sorry that you don't feel comfortable about this sight or in Tim's strength of faith to let the information asked for to be available to Tim.

I can not excuse any of us for attacking religion, in your posts but you do have to remember that many evil things have been done in the name of religion.

Some of the sects out there are carrying on their own sort of Spanish Inquisition against Transgendered individuals and have torn families apart and ruined lives and even caused suicides through their intense efforts to 'cure' the transgendered,

That does not excuse us from not being more friendly to you, but we all have triggers for our emotions and you managed to hit several buttons without realizing it.

I have no doubt that it was never your intention to come here and stir up a hornet's nest but things happen beyond our control.

I have told you earlier that I am a Christian and as such asked for your forgiveness for the way that I had responded earlier, I am know asking you to do just one more thing for me.

Ask your self, would the Son of Man associate with transsexuals and bless them and even heal them if he were here today?

Remembering that he worked with everyone, outside of his race and religion, all levels of society and forgave sinners.

We have had this discussion before, imagine that Jesus were here right now, because he is, he is in you and me and Tim and MaryEllen and everyone who has accepted him as their personal Saviour, would he turn his back on Tim or me or anyone else who believes in him.

I can't even imagine that - he is Lord over all who believe not just all who believe exactly as I do and for those who do not believe in the Son there is always the Father and belief in him will also allow for salvation through his grace and his grace alone!

We should not be deciding for Tim what to do, who to be, who to tell, when to tell them or what information should be presented - in the end all decessions must belong to Tim.

You can honor the wishes of Tim and maintain a relationship and hold this wonderful person in your church and in your life and in the hearts of the entire congregation or you can tell Tim's father and hope that Tim will deal with it better than all of the people that you have heard from here.

Your choice, not an easy one and yet it is - open your heart to Jesus on this issue, pray to him and feel his answer and you will know what to do.

"A church is wherever 2 or more people are gathered in my name."

You have had a 'church service' with Tim over this already, you can keep Tim in the church or turn her against religion all together so the choice has a lot riding on it.

This site is filed with people from all religions and includes a lot of Atheists and Agnostics most of whom were the result of religious people turning their backs on questions that they did not want to answer.

You have made the effort to answer and you have the responsibility to help Tim to maintain her faith throughout life.

I am older and have seen a lot of good things done I the name of religion and a lot of bad, I can sort that out because men often hide behind religion to cover their actions and make them seem noble and the truly good things are so often done quietly and anonymously that they go unnoticed.

You are trying to do a kind thing and I hope that you will help Tim, when a teen-aged boy comes up to someone that they know and trust and says that they have always known that they should have been born a girl, it isn't idle chit chat, it is a real and strong need.

Tim wanted to know the stand of the church because faith is important to her, she didn't want to tell her father before she knew if she could stay in the church or not.

The issue here really isn't is Tim transgendered that answer was given to you by Tim, by coming to you - the question is can Tim stay in the church as she transitions and will you keep Tim's trust and not tell her father until after you have answered the first part.

Good Luck and my prayers are with you to make the right decision for all involved,

Sally

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Guest Irielle

Hi Jacob, I just came across this thread and decided to add my two cents.

Please, don't tell her father or anyone about her transgender issues. It is not your place to do so. She came to you in confidence and you owe it to her to maintain that trust. Breaking her confidence and outing her to her family, or to anyone, could be disastrous.

Here is my bias; I have a huge issue with accepting authority, tradition or revelation as legitimate reasons for morality or as reasons for beliefs or behaviors. Religion uses all three of the above. I think one has to begin with the real world, with reality, with the way things really are and then proceed from there. Religion begins with its conclusions and then attempts to make the world conform to those views. It wields guilt and rewards and threats of damnation to reinforce itself. It took the church almost 400 years to vindicate Galileo, for goodness' sake.

You are starting with your religious views and using them to try and make sense of Tim's situation. How about jettisoning that, for just a moment, and begin with Tim. She is a human, with a heart and dreams and hopes and fears and everything that goes with her humanity. Start with her. We MUST begin with her. Set aside dogma and unfounded belief and look at her with your heart and with your shared humanity.

She is in an intolerable situation; she is in the wrong body. She needs help. She wants to be a full human being; she wants her body and emotional life and sense of self to all work together and right now they don't. And the world tells her there is something wrong with her for wanting that. Something that most people take for granted is beyond her grasp right now. She is alone and she hurts and she came to you for help. She has placed great trust and confidence and hope in you; don't let her down because of your religious beliefs.

This is a no-brainer if we use common sense. She is in the wrong body and she needs help. She needs a gender therapist, someone trained in gender issues. Not someone who will tell her to live with it but someone to support her in her quest to become who she really is. It doesn't matter if she is transgendered, or a crossdresser, or androgyne or anything else. She needs to become who she really is and she will need help and support to get there. She chose you.

She needs your confidence. Let her come out to whomever she wants to whenever she is ready. She needs to take her time. She's been in this situation her entire life and reconciliation won't happen overnight. Be there for her. Be a role model for her so she knows people can be trustworthy and be trusted with her innermost being. You have been given the tremendous gift and equally tremendous responsiblity of her trust. Keep it, don't throw it away. Just because you might have an inner conflict between your religious beliefs and transgenderism, that's no reason to foist it upon her. You must put her well being above all else, even your religious beliefs and convictions.

Bronze age mythologies have no place in her turmoil and she should not be burdened with them and they should not even enter into consideration of her plight. Please, please leave them behind; do it for her. Help her follow her heart and find her way. Too, too many of us have taken our own lives, in no small part because of religious opposition. No more. We cannot lose her, too.

You are, of course, entitled to any religous beliefs you want. You are not entitled to use them with Tim if it will do damage to her or make her feel less than who she is entitled to be. Your ego is not allowed here.

Religion offers nothing that our hearts don't already own, but it can break what is already there.

You are obviously intelligent and caring and have a good heart. Use it; I want the best for both you and for Tim. :)

Irielle

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I have not broken Tim's confidence yet. When I spoke with the other advisors, I did not mention that it was Tim. So far, only I know. But I do believe his parents have a right to know about this. I am sorry, but I feel that they would do a better job at leading and guiding him. Tim can do what Tim wants to do, but I think his parents should know. Julia mentioned the right to access information, why does this not apply to Tim's parents? His parents are his guardians. I think this right should be especially strong for them.

Jacob

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Guest Zenda
Hi, my name is Jacob. I am here because I am a teen's advisor at my church. Recently, one of my male youths has decided to come out to me, and has told me that he is transgendered. He has informed me that he has not yet told his parents or friends. I am the only one who knows.

I have come here in seek of guidance about what to do about this issue. My church does not hate the transsexual community, but does not support transition or living life as a transsexual. I do not believe that my church considers this to be any mental disorder. I am fairly certain that the church only considers transsexuality to be a sin. Regardless, I am not sure what the right course of action is. I am not sure whether or not I should tell his parents, or if I should even try to help him through a transition of any kind.

I am going to look at this issue open mindedly and from all sides. I would like to hear your opinions on this matter, and would appreciate any help you can provide. Thank you.

Jacob

Kia Ora Jacob,

Russian proverb “Pray to god fine; but keep rowing to shore!”

You should do what YOU feel and know is right…But also you MUST be prepared to accept full responsibility for whatever the outcome…

Remember… You’re holding someone’s life and future in YOUR hands…

Why not contact a gender therapist and explain the situation to them…Here’s a list of ‘independent’ therapists that specialise in gender issues…I’m sure by sending one [or more] an email explaining the situation, they will provide you with a way out of the dilemma you find yourself in…

http://www.lauras-playground.com/gender_therapists.htm

Life's at times can be a conundrum where solutions are many...

Metta Jendar :)

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Guest CharliTo

Okay, I'm just going to go right through any religious things and just get straight to the main point: the child.

Do you want the child to feel love? or hate? Do you want to give him hope? or despair? I'm sure you're have good ethics as a person and want to give a child that's looking to you for support the best support the child is looking for...and I'm sure that is why you came here...

For anyone young...I think they just need to think on it for a bit...but the main concern you might wanna concentrate as an youth advisor is making sure the child is still doing good in school, in their self-confidence, self-esteem, and health... Gender problems and not having a resolution to it can cause a huge amount of stress....and that is why so many kids who have it end up not doing well in school despite being a very bright young child. It'll be great if you can keep the future bright for this child as possible...

I was lucky that I had a mother and great friends (who are still friends with me today!) who didn't understand why I was so depressed back in high school...but encouraged me to still stride forward... and despite the fact that I wishhh I transitioned in the past, I am atleast grateful that they wanted me to go to college...pursue my career (which I am working in now! :)) ... and whatever it may be, grow up to be a good human being.

Unfortunately, there is the whole law thing and as long as they're a minor, their parents or legal guardian are the people that can give consent to life-changing decisions for these children. I think it'll be best if you let the child know that there's limited things you can move around legally without a parent's consent at his age (and like everybody else says, don't tell the parents until the child says they're ready)...but that you still want the kid to lift their chin up and stay strong. The child isn't alone...

As far as why not to tell the parents? You see all that above? The whole thing about self-confidence, self-esteeem...health...future.... if you break this child's trust by telling the parents, you might also break all of that too. When I was in a similar shoe, I was...terrified...like...utterly...terrified..and if my best friend that I trusted so much were to tell my parents...other friends...or anybody else for that matter...I wouldn't know what would have happened to me... I will assure you that I wouldn't be doing well as I am today...

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  • Root Admin

Hello Jacob,

You came here seeking advice on what to do about a young person who confided in you that she was transgendered. This thread has gone on with 4 pages of advice from a transgendered point of view and yet you don't appear to have listened to any of it. You keep insisting that you must tell her parents knowing full well that if you do, you could very well be ruining this young persons life. Because this thread appears to be going no where, I will give this thread one more day and then I am going to close and lock it. All that can be said, has been said. This thread is beginning to look more and more like a 4chan tactic to cause disruption among our members. Something that we will not tolerate here. Unless you can be a little more forth coming about who, what and why you are really here and start listening to reason, this thread will end.

Now that I think about it, why did you pick our site to come to? There are many others you could have gone to. Also, do you realize that by using a church networked computer, you are leaving a trail for all the church elders to see. You might think that you are deleting your viewing history but anyone with any computer savy knows that this just isn't so. How would you explain to them that you are surfing and have actually joined a transgender site. Did you ask their permission to do this. I hope for your sake, you did.

Anyway, it's time to put up or shut up. It's up to you.

MaryEllen

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Guest Irielle

I'm going to try one final time. Mary Ellen is right. I think you came here with your mind already made up and were looking for confirmation. You will get none here. You obviously are not thinking about Tim and her concerns or well-being; you are wrapped up in something else that is going on within you. You are determined to take control of something you have no right to. My hope is that Tim will find us on her own and realize she is loved and can love in return and be accepted for who she is and truly belong in the world - even if it is a world you don't hold in any esteem.

I thought by coming here you were interested in the transgender point of view and what would help Tim. Your continued insistence on thinking you should talk to her parents despite the overwhelming experiences shared with you here demonstrating the opposite proves me wrong. You are playing with fire and there will be no absolution.

When I was 15 (perhaps that is about Tim's age?) I had my first boyfriend. I am transgendered and he was gay. Gary was 16 and I was in love. Two years later he was dead by his own hand - he couldn't take the struggle and committed suicide. It was bigotry and intolerant religion and uncaring attitudes and pettiness that killed him. Part of me died with him and there will be a hole in my heart forever. It has taken years and much therapy to come to terms and it is still a struggle. I was ready countless times to take my own life and by all rights should be dead myself. Are you willing to put Tim into Gary's shoes? Are you willing to actually take that risk with her? After the trust she has blessed you with? Have you any idea how hard it was for her to turn to you? I wish I had had her strength at that age and turned for help sooner than I did. Out of everyone she could have turned to she chose you. Whether you like it or not you are now responsible for her. Do not take this lightly - she has very much entrusted you with her well-being and perhaps even her life.

And instead of being on her side and taking care of her heart and helping her you are going to turn her in. It seems she has misplaced her trust in you. Shame on you; how can you look at yourself in the mirror for even considering it?

This is not about religion. This is about human beings and our struggles to belong to ourselves and to others. It's about confidences given and received, about privacy and help in growing up, about learning to become who we really are and accepting ourselves so that we can accept the world and be accepted by it. It's not about control, it's about power - the power to be ourselves and love ourselves for being who we are.

Get out of your head, quit trying to justify "doing the right thing". Get into your heart, put yourself in Tim's place. I am angry because I am helpless here but even more so, underneath my anger, is a profound sadness. Sad that Tim may well have misplaced her trust. Sad that she has had to struggle with her gender issues. Sad for you that you cannot empathize and cannot find your heart. Sad for the world that makes us hide our true selves at the risk of our lives. Sad for my loss and for everyone's losses. Sad for all the young lives lost, ended too soon because of the tragedy that is intolerance and the absence of care and love for their fragile hearts. Sad because I know their numbers will only increase.

But we have our hearts and we have our dreams and they always tell us the truth. Tim has given you her heart on her quest to live her dreams. By all that is sacred, help her. Not the way you want or think you are supposed to, but in the way she desires and the way she deserves. With privacy, with caring and respect, with your heart. I don't know what else to say through these tears of mine except - please.

To all my wonderful friends here, I'm sorry. I don't like to reveal and relive certain things about myself but fighting for Tim's happiness is worth my pain. I love you all.

Irielle

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Guest StrandedOutThere
Hello Jacob,

You came here seeking advice on what to do about a young person who confided in you that she was transgendered. This thread has gone on with 4 pages of advice from a transgendered point of view and yet you don't appear to have listened to any of it. You keep insisting that you must tell her parents knowing full well that if you do, you could very well be ruining this young persons life. Because this thread appears to be going no where, I will give this thread one more day and then I am going to close and lock it. All that can be said, has been said. This thread is beginning to look more and more like a 4chan tactic to cause disruption among our members. Something that we will not tolerate here. Unless you can be a little more forth coming about who, what and why you are really here and start listening to reason, this thread will end.

Now that I think about it, why did you pick our site to come to? There are many others you could have gone to. Also, do you realize that by using a church networked computer, you are leaving a trail for all the church elders to see. You might think that you are deleting your viewing history but anyone with any computer savy knows that this just isn't so. How would you explain to them that you are surfing and have actually joined a transgender site. Did you ask their permission to do this. I hope for your sake, you did.

Anyway, it's time to put up or shut up. It's up to you.

MaryEllen

A 4chan tactic? They do that? Thanks for looking out for us, MaryEllen.

Looking back, this guy does seem a little fishy. It's like he doesn't hear anything we're saying.

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I have accessed this site because of my own desire to help Tim. I have used my own computer, not a church one. Tim came to me, not the church. The church does not know that I have an account here. A few of the advisors and leaders know that I asked them about transsexuality, but that is all. Everything I have done is of my own accord.

I do not know what a 4chan tactic is, and I am certainly not trying to disrupt this site. I picked this site because I found it quickly, and found that it was a valid resource with a vast amount of information. The web forum appealed to me as a good way to ask questions and interact with the community.

I am sorry if I have offended you or any others, MaryEllen. I wish to tell Tim's parents because I feel that it is necessary for his health and development. I do realize that something could go wrong, but I do not believe it will. I think this could be helpful for Tim. His parents could take him to a gender therapist. From what I have heard here, it seems like the best option is to wait, but unfortunately, I do not feel that way. I do not want things to get worse by waiting. The confusion could get worse if he does not see a therapist, and if Tim is truly a woman, I fear the results of continued suppression.

I will attempt to talk to Tim tomorrow. I was reluctant to talk to him about telling his parents, because I thought that may cause additional stress, but I have decided now that it may be the best way to go. I will put telling his parents on hold for now.

Thank you all again.

Jacob

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Guest RainBird

Hi Jacob.

Showing Tim this site and letting her see see for herself and make her own desicions may be the best help you can give at the moment.

I know that if one of my 'friends' ever fowarded sensitive information under confidence and trust to my father or anyone for that matter without my consent it would set off my 'pregnant dog-switch' big time! It is unfortunately a likely possibility this could happen.

I do respect and admire that you are concerned about her well being, I really do, but jumping into her business like that would just result in digging one's self a deeper grave so to speak.

You can still help this girl without jeapordising the situation, just by being there for her.

I for one have been driven away from my father ever since coming out to him.

I may have put this a little bluntly, but it is in the best interest for the both of you to heed the advice that many here have shared as they have already experienced many hardships similar of the like.

Thanks,

Jacci

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I will attempt to talk to Tim tomorrow. I was reluctant to talk to him about telling his parents, because I thought that may cause additional stress, but I have decided now that it may be the best way to go. I will put telling his parents on hold for now.

That is PERFECT!

Talk to Tim.

Encourage Tim to talk to her parents!

Offer to go with Tim for moral support and since Tim has never been to this site also to offer a source of factual information about transgendered issues.

This is the best possible solution for your delima, if Tim is willing, you can talk to Tim's parents, get Tim to a Gender Therapist and preserve Tim's trust in you and hopefully her faith in your church.

Tell Tim how important you feel that telling her parents is to her future not just your piece of mind.

You can tell Tim that you met an older transsexual Christian lady named Sally who will be more than glad to talk to her about transgendered issues and faith as well.

I hope that Tim will go along with you and tell her parents, it is the best possible solution.

Love as always and peace,

Sally

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Guest StrandedOutThere

4chan is a website whose members are like internet pranksters. I don't go on there, but I know what it is.

Well, whatever happens with Tim, I wish you both the best. If you think about it, how about update us later and let us know how things are going. Cool?

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Hi, my name is Jacob. I am here because I am a teen's advisor at my church. Recently, one of my male youths has decided to come out to me, and has told me that he is transgendered. He has informed me that he has not yet told his parents or friends. I am the only one who knows.

I have come here in seek of guidance about what to do about this issue. My church does not hate the transsexual community, but does not support transition or living life as a transsexual. I do not believe that my church considers this to be any mental disorder. I am fairly certain that the church only considers transsexuality to be a sin. Regardless, I am not sure what the right course of action is. I am not sure whether or not I should tell his parents, or if I should even try to help him through a transition of any kind.

I am going to look at this issue open mindedly and from all sides. I would like to hear your opinions on this matter, and would appreciate any help you can provide. Thank you.

Jacob

Jacob,

If you had a church member with chest pain you'd advise them to go to a cardioligist whose an EXPERT. You wouldn't send them to a plumber. By your own admission you are not a transgender expert yet you are trying to treat soomeone for it based on biblical text. Transgenderism is a medical condition best treated by those with expertise in the field. There is plenty of scientific evidence which show it is something we are born with not a choice. Yet there are faith based EXodus style organizations determined to cure us. As one Exodus put it to one gay man failing the Program, "You would be better off to commit suicide than to continue in the gay lifestyle." This site deals with suicide prevention in our crisis rooms 24/7 and wwe've saved thousands of lives. In a survey and from data colleccted here over 50% of Transsexuals have had at least one suicide attempt by their 20th birthday with the youngest being age 7. Many had multiple attempts. Is it any wonder that bible verse hasn't cured anyone long term? This is not a religious matter. In fact the AMA American medical Association and both APA's both PSychiatric and Psychological have come out in favor of the WPATH STandards of care for Transgender people and their treatment. Of course according to religious people THEY know what is best for us over our Doctor's. I ask you whose more qualified to treat them? Worse you want to "OUT" a transgender kid to his family that came to you in confidence. This alone could cause a suicide. Would Jesus tell a parent And out them? This person need a gender therapist not a minister as you are NOT a doctor trained in this area http://www.lauras-playground.com/gender_therapists.htm .

It is a fact here that Homophobia/Transphobia citing bible verse caused 90% of our suicide attempts here. By NOT sending this person to the proper care you are in effect putting their life in jepordy. You don't have that right. I do respect your beliefs and don't believe your intent is malicious. However you do not have all the facts and I urge you to find them. Nothing harms GLBT people more than ignorance of the facts even if it is not intentional. Amateurs should not be advising on medical matters. It is dangerous. It also may interest you to know that there are other pastor's here that DO NOT believe as you do and support us. If you trueley want to help make sure this person recieves therapy from an expert on the subject. I can tell you that biblical "Do it yourselfers" Have caused thousands here to attempt suicide. Certainly I don't think you want that to happen with your charge.

Laura

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4chan is a website whose members are like internet pranksters. I don't go on there, but I know what it is.

Death and rape threats almost daily go far beyond a prank. It is CRIMINAL behavior as well as felonies. In addtion they disrupted a suicide prevention chat where moderators were trying to help 2 users who had attempted suicide. Usually after an attempt there are 5 minutes maximum to get help. These users were never heard from again. If they died it's murder. It is a felony to cause the suicide or death of another. In addition they've attacked many LGBT sites. As there are investigations going on beyond my control I cannot comment further. Some identities have already been made. Ironically they quote the same biblical verses that "Jacob" does.

Laura

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Anyway, as one member of this site has pointed out to me in a private message, this post is not generating much help for me or Tim. Instead, I am receiving criticism of my religion. I would not have expected this from such a tolerant group of people, but I suppose I was wrong.

Sorry I didn't see this earlier or i would have responded. If you haven't noticed we have spirituality forums here. Many of our members are religious or would like to be. I am sorry you feel criticized but it isn't for your beliefs. It's a matter of jurisdiction. The AMA and both APA's have come out in favor of the Wpath Transgender standards of care for our treatment. These are Professionals schooled in our care. If you had someone with a medical or psychological issue you would point them to those professionals. Yet in this case you are second guessing these professionals. That alone is what is being objected to not your religion.

One question I have is this: why is a therapist the best option? I read in another part of this site that some of the users here believe that transsexualism should not be included in the DSM. If so, and thus it is no kind of mental problem, why is a psychologist the person to be seen? Why is a psychologist needed for a non-mental issue?

The information on this site is from input of over 8 million Transgender users and many health care professionals. In addition we have suicide prevention in our chat crsis rooms 24/7. No other site does suicide prevention online for our community. We have up to 100 staff certified in prevention. Last week alone there were 380 crisis's here successfully solved. How many transgender people have you talked to? In addition we have researchers as well as Doctoral and Master's students here working on their degrees as well as consultants from the medical and Psychology fields.

Just as homosexuality was dropped from the DSM long ago many believe it should be dropped for transgenders as well including many of our care givers. Why becuase there is eveidence to show people are born with it. Many are aware of it as their first remembered thoughts at the age of 3 or 4 long before sexuality is a factor. In many cases there was eveidence of gender issues before that age if you ask the families. At least until as recently as 2 years ago there were no guidlines to handle people with gender issues that young. This meant that most family members surpressed any cross-gender behavior. Some treated it as a religious issue instead of a medical issue which it is. The transsexuality itself is not the mental issue instead mental issues are created by forcing one to supress their "True Selves". This causes trauma which gives birth to psychological problems later. In fact this is why TS's are three times more likley to suffer from MPD/DID or similar issues. Physical abuse isn't the only reason it's also mental abuse that causes severe Depression and other problems. Surpressing the true self causes mental issues. That's the problem. Before any transition can occur mental issues must at least be under control with medication at the very least. In addition NOT ALL are candidates for genital surgery. For some having this would be a disaster. Transsexuals for instance going through the steps of the standards of care have only a 6% disatisfaction rate poat-op while transgenderists are at 30%. The transsexual suicide rate goes down while the transgenderist suicide rate goes up. Obviously we want people to be sure. This is the therapists job to sort out. People wrongly assume that every one who applies gets surgery and that is so far from the case. Ask and many will tell you this is true. There are MAny rejected for surgery. Treatment options are very different between Transsexuals and transgenderists. The tg may live the role but only Transsexuals can get SRS.

Are the people who caused the mental trauma by supression a son or daughters true selves bad people. NO! They still are causing severe damage that will most likley lead to suicide later. We see it here several times a day. Let me ask you if 50% of a group of people could commit suicide who would you send them to? As a minister would I take the chance of being wrong on even one of these lives? NO! I'd send them to a therapist who is experienced with that group. I do hope you'll continue the conversation. This though is a matter of qualifications as to who is better equipped to handle transgenderism. IS it the DOctors speciallizing in our care, or you? I am not a therapist which is why i don't diagnose anyone here. I leave that to the experts. I think you should too with all due respect. Life is too precious to risk on anyone other than with an expert.

Laura

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Hello, Laura. First, I would like to thank you for this site. There is no doubt that it has been useful for many people, including myself, and more importantly, Tim. I think you may have misunderstood me, and may have some false impressions or ideas. I am sorry if I offended you, and it appears like I did from the tone and subject of your replies.

I am not here to cause any harm. I am definitely not trying to perform any criminal activity. I am not here to give death or rape threats. I am here for Tim, and I am certainly not planning on advising him or his parents to send him to this Exodus place.

You mentioned that I have used Bible verses as this other criminal group has used. The only verses I used here were the ones about how we have been commanded to have children. I am not sure how this group has used these verses, but I am certainly not part of this group.

I do not consider transsexuality to be a religious issue. I am not sure if it is a mental issue, because I am hearing that it is and that it is not. Therefore, I am confused. I do not consider it a religious issue, but transitioning when it is not needed is improper. I do not believe that Tim needs counseling from a minister or other religious authority. I do not consider myself to be a therapist, and I do not believe that I can guide him in the proper form.

I believe Tim needs a therapist specialized in this area. These are my two goals: to get Tim to a therapist, and to let his parents know. I am not specialized in the area of gender, and I am not responsible for raising him. You asked me what Jesus would do, and I believe that He would tell Tim's parents. I do not believe that Jesus keeps secrets. But I am putting telling his parents on hold.

I hope this has cleared up any misconceptions about myself. I am certainly not against you or this community.

As for the update on Tim, I did speak with him today. We discussed his feelings again, and I brought up the idea of a therapist and interaction with other transgendered people. He said is a nervous about talking about this to other people, but I told him we could try to work on overcoming that. My goal is to try to build up enough courage so that he can tell his parents.

Thanks for everything.

Jacob

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