As God Made Us

[Guest Charlene_Leona]

I won't answer that question, except to say God gives us tribulations to make us better people.

[Guest Evan_J]

.....what if God had created me a morfidite (part male and part female) Then he would concede that I could have a choice to go either way.......if I had the mind of female and the body of a male.......

It's the same thing. The first proposition consists of two physical components, the second consists of one physical and one essential. His conclusion is limited by his own inabiltiy to "see and touch" some part of you.

[Guest Elizabeth K]

Everyone hold on. My sisters are coming today. THEY have all the answers. I'll try to take notes and report back as accurately as posible.

Lizzy

[Guest Donna Jean]

Yes, Lizzy.....

Be sure to keep REAL GOOD notes!

I need answers and to have someone with ALL of the answers is an awesome thing to have happen, Liz!

Now we can finally get to the bottom of this! No more guessing!

The answers to Transsexuality will be reveled today!

Is it a cruel joke? A hoax? Are we all going to hell? Will Lizzy get her mind right?

Stay tuned, folks, for the exciting conclusion!

Donna Jean

[Guest Sarinah]

Yes, Lizzy.....

Be sure to keep REAL GOOD notes!

I need answers and to have someone with ALL of the answers is an awesome thing to have happen, Liz!

Now we can finally get to the bottom of this! No more guessing!

The answers to Transsexuality will be reveled today!

Is it a cruel joke? A hoax? Are we all going to hell? Will Lizzy get her mind right?

Stay tuned, folks, for the exciting conclusion!

Donna Jean

I bet theres a cliff hanger at the end of this episode.

[Guest (Lightsider)]

"'Why can't we gender dysphoric accept ourselves as God made us?"

To this my answer is: "Is it a sin if a person is born blind and that defect is fixed?"

Who are these people to dictate to us what we should and should not do? Did you know that in some parts of the world that it is considered a sin if you happen along an accident and help some one with out waiting 30 minutes to pass? Why? because they believe that if you try and help some one in an accident you are interferring with the will of God?

Far too many people are walking around professing to know the will of God and should tend thier own business than that of what others are doing.

[Guest Amelie]

"'Why can't we gender dysphoric accept ourselves as God made us?"

To this my answer is: "Is it a sin if a person is born blind and that defect is fixed?"

This is such a good point.

[Guest Justme]

Like you...I believe God made me transgendered. In replying to religious people in my life....people that use the verse from the Bible...that says God is the potter....so we have no right to change. I point them to the book of Jerimiah..Chapter 18 verses 3-4. It says...The clay was marred in the potters hand...God's hand...BUT He did'nt throw it away...He remade it ...into something GOOD. The other thing I heard from Dr. Charles Stanley...who is a fundamental preacher...is that if you have a real connection with God....His spirit will not allow you to continue to seek something that is not His will for your life. We are trans...and God is making us into something good.

[Guest nymphblossom]

I have only come out to my wife and have not been asked this yet, but am glad you started the thread, Elizabeth, so I can be prepared for the day I am. I don't think you can reason with or explain to a person who has the audacity to ask a question like this. They already have there mind made up and are only looking for confrontation. I would simply reply That is between me and my God. It is not any of your business and it is very rude of you to ask.

Blossom

[Guest Joanna Phipps]

Let them wallow in their bigottry, lack of knowlege and hate. I have better things to do, for the first time in my life I have a clear path to walk; this is not to say it wont have hills, valleys and the occasional mudbog. For the first time in my life I can hold my head up and know that I am on the path to being something that they never will, a complete and loving individual.

[Guest Jean Davis]

OMG, Elizabeth you brought up a tough topic.

I hope I don't affend anyone with my views on this subject.

Ok I'll try to keep this as short as I can. First I don't believe God makes any mistakes, we just aren't intellectually advanced enough to understand the purpose for what happens. Second I don't believe this is the only life our souls encounter. I believe our souls come back in a variety of different lives to give us valuable lessons, experiences, and to help cleanse our souls of hate and other bad experiences. You have to admitt eternity would be awfull tedious with experiences from only one life. And heaven wouldn't be so great if we dragged along the hate from any life. In fact I believe the only souls that end up in hell are those who can't give up there hatred. I truely believe it is our best interests to try to forgive and understand others to the best of our abilities.

I apologize if I affended anyone,

Jean Davis

[Guest Jean Davis]

Well, God made everything, right? And we (humans) have never ceased to screw with just about everything we touch. The food you're eating? It's the result of centuries of hybrids, breeding, and cloning. God NEVER made a seedless watermelon, yet I ate some for breakfast. (For that matter, God didn't make Granola, and I had some of THAT yesterday). You think for one minute God made rayon? Polyester? Wash-n-wear ANYTHING?

By the way, did you ride in an automobile today? Or any form of transportation that required refined fossil fuel?

I'm going to the dentist next week. By this logic, I should skip that, and just let God's little cavities take over my mouth.

Which begs the question... how 'bout dem vaccinations? Eh?

Anyone's Aunt Susie ever had a hip replacement? HUH?????

GGRRRRRRR..............................

True God didn't make all those things and we do screw up alot. But God did give us the intelligence to better ourselves. Now its up to us on how we use it.

Jean Davis

[Guest darlene lynn]

I got the "why can't you just accept your body the way God made you" question right off the bad, during my TG infancy. I was maybe only a couple of weeks old. I didn't have an answer.

I don't have a good one now. Since I don't consider myself religious, it isn't a huge concern. However, I wish I had a decent answer for my mom. I think it would make her feel better.

My feelings are very strong on this issue. Gender identity and sexual orientation are not moral choices, they are something you are born with. I've been attracted to women and identified with being male since I can remember...long before I had the capacity for moral choice. This is something I have explained to people over and over. My present view is that I don't see any way people can condemn SRS without also condemning any kind of surgery or medical treatment.

Now, there are some verses in the New Testament that pretty clearly speak out against homosexuality. I don't know what to say about those. I've got no answers.

I have a reply to the bible talking about homosexuality. But I would like to say the bible talks about many different kinds of sin in the bible. And that homosexuality is only one kind of sin. The bible also addresses men wearing womens clothing and women wearing mens clothing as a sin,A forgiveable sin no different than anyother disobedience to Gods ways. For that is the definition of sin. For all have sinned,and come short of the glory of God,Romans chapter 3 verse 23. But we are all forgiven thru faith,Ephesians chapter 2 verse 8 and 9 ,For by grace are we saved through faith; and that not by yourselves; it is a gift from God, not by our works lest any man should boast; forgiveness comes thru Christ Jesus. Romans chapter 10 verse 9-13

Hope this helps

LOL

Darlene Lynnette

[Guest April63]

I have a reply to the bible talking about homosexuality. But I would like to say the bible talks about many different kinds of sin in the bible. And that homosexuality is only one kind of sin. The bible also addresses men wearing womens clothing and women wearing mens clothing as a sin,A forgiveable sin no different than anyother disobedience to Gods ways. For that is the definition of sin. For all have sinned,and come short of the glory of God,Romans chapter 3 verse 23. But we are all forgiven thru faith,Ephesians chapter 2 verse 8 and 9 ,For by grace are we saved through faith; and that not by yourselves; it is a gift from God, not by our works lest any man should boast; forgiveness comes thru Christ Jesus. Romans chapter 10 verse 9-13

Hope this helps

LOL

Darlene Lynnette

But to be forgiven, you have to stop performing the sin.

And some sins are not forgivable. Such as murder.

[Guest Elizabeth K]

The men wearing womens clothing and the women wearing mens clothing is taking out of context. Read the passage in it's entireity.

Also - a male bodied transperson is not a man. A female bodied transperson is not a woman.

Lizzy

[Guest April63]

The men wearing womens clothing and the women wearing mens clothing is taking out of context. Read the passage in it's entireity.

I've decided that at least half of the people that talk about religion, don't even know their own religion, but instead take things out of context and just say things to hear themselves speak. Especially when you find a bunch of websites that say the exact same thing. Then you ask the author, "Have you read the book?" "Nope, but my pastor said so and so...".

[Guest gwenthlian]

well first off im atheist so i hope im not offending any religious people here, anyway.

I think the key to this question is interpretation. As April says many rely on the interpretation of a religious text by another, whether that is a pastor, an iman or other spiritual leader. The vast majority of those reading a religious text rely on the interpretation into a different language, the meaning becoming slightly distorted or twisted to various degrees. There is also the fact that, to take the Bible as an example, the text itself is a recording of the actions and words of a great many people living a long time ago and is not written by these same people or even in that time period.

Some say that all wars are caused by religion, though I have no faith I disagree strongly with this statement. I instead believe that they are caused by people finding meaning in their religions to support their own aims. The case in question here where ones very existence is deemed sinful or in contradiction to various religious passages is based entirely on one persons reading of that passage. It may be a reading shared by others but it is not the only one possible. Religion itself is fractured, there are fundamentalists, seperate churches and all sorts of conflicting viewpoints.

To answer the statement I would say simply that each person can take religion and it texts as they choose, forcing an interpretation on another is how you get wars.

Forgive the rambling post, I hope I made some sort of point ^^

[Guest ChloëC]

Wow, a lot of reading and a lot of opinions and beliefs. So what do we say? I feel as a Christian, I'm very deeply religious, yet I have basically rejected what I see is going on in organized churches. I was baptized a Catholic, but was switched to Episcopalian after my father died and took first communion, then when my mother married a divorced man we moved to the Congregational church (now UCC) where I was confirmed, then when I got married, I joined the Methodist church in which my wife grew up. And over the course of my life, I've also attended Presbyterian, Baptist, Lutheran, and several independent church services. I've had people try to 'save' me, I've had discussions with ministers, I even chaired a panel discussion in a college class on God is Dead, that we were asked to give again in a evening cafe setting. So, I've experienced a lot.

What I've learned is that there probably is no one response, because all these denominations (funny isn't it that here in the U.S. they're denominations of Christianity, yet for other religions, they're referred to as sects, like denomination is 'good' and sect is 'bad') are different enough that they will disagree with each other and even within the denomination on many things, like the ordination of alternate lifestyle people.

I personally don't believe God gave me a gift or an affliction. I am me, plain and simple. At age 8 I couldn't pronounce 'L's to save my life, sounding a little like a close relative of Elmer Fudd. Was that a gift or affliction from God? I doubt it. It was just what was part of me. My parents took the school's recommendation and I went to a speech therapist at the public elementary school for a few weeks. I don't remember any one making fun of me, or even asking me about it. I guess I was lucky, but I can perfectly pronounce my 'L's. I found like only a year ago that one of grandfathers had the same problem, as did my aunt. Genetics, right? I look at my inward feelings as I looked at my pronunciation problem - it is me. That's what I am.

I do plan to ask God or whoever is there at whatever point I get somewhere about why I am like I am (another funny thing - true Christianity is not about going to 'Heaven' after one's death, it's about being 'saved' to live with God - with Jesus at his/her side - in the future kingdom, but that's an 'inconvenient truth' - people want to believe in a heaven and hell. So the church goes along with it. It's also funny how the church also goes along with wars and the disregard for human life - I suspect they want to keep their tax exempt status and keep their coffers filled. That comes with acquiescing to the government and to human fraility. That is sad)

If asked I sometimes feel like I should take the offensive, and say, 'Why did God make you stupid? What are you doing to overcome that affliction?' And if they reply in any way, just look at them non-judgementally and straight faced, say, 'Well, you are, and I certainly will pray for you.' If anyone wants to try the affliction route with you, just turn it around on them, because physical problems can be alleviated or healed, mental problems go a lot deeper, and those people are full of them.

One or two more thoughts before I leave off. The sad thing about how people read and interpret the Christian Bible and New Testament especially is their literal acceptance of it, not understanding in the least what Jesus was talking about. When he healed the leper for example, he wasn't healing a uniquely specific disease (which it actually was, contrary to the assumptions of the time, and which we now fully accept as a treatable physical affliction), he was explaining that God loves everyone and leprosy was NOT God's punishment for some unseen sin. Today we have a disease that is held in the same regard that leprosy was back then - it must be God's scourging of the sinful. It's AIDS of course. But today's Sadducces and Pharisees can't even begin to imagine that, or begin to understand what Jesus was trying to tell us. You are to love God first, and everyone else second. No exceptions, no alternatives, no rule bending. All I can say is that the world surely seems filled with an awful lot of self-haters, doesn't it. And all we can do is try to draw that circle with Love's help to take them in.

[Guest Mesingw]

I identify as a pagan so my beliefs i think are going to be a bit different from most people on here. My answer to the question of why can't i be happy with the way god made me is that I am happy with how god made me. It made me transgendered. There is nothing wrong with that and many religions not only tolerate transgenderism but embrace it. The difficulty that I tend to see, and I'm coming at this from a sociological perspective, is that people like to think they know everything when in reality they don't. Eventually, they come across something they don't understand (such as transgenderism) and this flips their entire worldview upside down so they have to condemn it by any means necessary. Religion, for whatever reason, seems to be the way many of them do this. The use of religious teachings against us is nothing that has not happened before. Religion, at least here in America, has been used to condemn everything from different racial groups to rock music. We are transitioning because we know what god created us to be...man, woman, etc. It is the person asking the question that is not comfortable with how god made us. They just won't admit that.

[Guest Amanda joan]

Thank you all for helpping me figure out how I am going to handle this. I know what I need to work on now. I know it is going to be hard to communicate what is in my heart in regards to why I NEED to change my body to match my soul. I will use what I have learned here to express this to my family. I feel like I have traveled a thousand miles in the last two weeks but, now I know what I need to do and this thread will help me to explain it.

I LOVE YOU ALL Amanda

[Guest Elizabeth K]

Thank you all for helpping me figure out how I am going to handle this. I know what I need to work on now. I know it is going to be hard to communicate what is in my heart in regards to why I NEED to change my body to match my soul. I will use what I have learned here to express this to my family. I feel like I have traveled a thousand miles in the last two weeks but, now I know what I need to do and this thread will help me to explain it.

I LOVE YOU ALL Amanda

Amanda

PM me if you need help.

Lizzy

[Guest Morgan]

No one remains 'as God made us' because to do so one would have to stop growing and changing from the moment that life officially begins and I'm not going to debate when that is.

Life itself is a process of evolution and we grow according to a plan or a map - DNA holds the keys, but it seems for some of us the map has a bad fold and is hard to read so some develop club feet, cleft palates or transgendered.

We find as a society in general that correcting club feet and cleft palates is just fine, however correcting transgendered is a sin and an abomination.

We don't ask everyone who dyes their hair, "Why don't you stay as God made you?"

We don't ask men who take HGH or Steroids, "Why don't you stay as God made you?"

We don't ask people with tattoos, piercings or breast implants, "Why don't you stay as God made you?"

That question has been reserved for us, why?

Because most people can see a club foot and know that if it were on the end of their leg, they would fix it.

Most people can not comprehend the plight of the transgendered and rather than take their minds out for a little intellectual and compassionate stroll they simply turn away and grab the book of all answers, THE HOLY BIBLE!

The problem is that while they are busy looking up the answers, they have never learned what the questions really are.

To me the BIBLE shows us the way - Jesus never failed to help someone because they were different.

We should treat people the same way - I have a lot of things in life that I do not understand, but rather than judging and telling them that they are wrong, I try to understand and give them room to live the way that they feel is right for them.

That is all I ask of anyone.

Love ya,

Sally Accepting difference embracing difference enjoying difference untill difference no longer makes a difference.love ya Morgan