The Standard Of Care…

[Guest Zenda]

Kia Ora,

Now I wonder... what if cisgender people agreed that only other ‘post’ op trans-people were allowed to set up the guidelines for the standard of care, would the vast majority of pre op transsexual people acknowledge/accept whatever was laid down? I’ve selected post oppers as the gate keepers for this because, bearing in mind they/we have been there and done that, so in theory [because of our past experiences] have a good idea as to what is needed…

But just imagine how difficult it would be to ‘try’ and please ‘all’ of the pre-op trans-people, ‘all’ of the time…Virtually an impossibility…The post oppers no doubt would argue amongst themselves, egos would clash and when finally all was settled - I’m guessing it wouldn’t be much different to what it is now…

There’s a saying that goes like this “There’s always room for improvement!” [because one will always find fault with what ‘is’]…

And yes, I do have the luxury of sitting back and watching all of this unfold-I’ve done my time, been to hell and back a few times and now am settle comfortably in a place of true contentment …So it’s easy for me to say what I say …A luxury many members have yet to experience...

BTW…

If you could have your say in how the standards could be improved…what would you recommend? This is open to pre and post oppers…

Metta Jendar

[Guest Little Sara]

I would recommend REAL flexibility. Not imagined flexibility with a court order and an army of lawyers. So no more "It's 3 months or bust" thing. A therapist should be able to work that out a LOT faster than 3 months in most cases. If someone needs more time, the therapist should also recognize that. No blanket requirements.

Same for RLT, and I recommend the removal of some stringent criterias such as being employed, volunteering or being a full-time student for the duration:

1) Most people can't afford studies without working part-time, being rich, or having rich enough parents (not my case in any of the ways).

2) Working part-time + studying removes time from your school work. Full-time schoolwork should be 80 hours counting studying time, no way you can be expected to fit a part-time 20 hours/week job AND sleep/hygiene/social/chores in there and not go crazy. Some can do it sure, but expect it of everyone, no.

3) Working full-time for trans people, pre or post-op is a problem in many places. You get looked over or outright discriminated. Lookism also comes in the picture if you're not perfectly passable (see the VRR vs Nixon case, it was about passability despite their clever wording about having a girl childhood - they'd never known if not for 'spotting her' physically).

4) Volunteering means you have no income. Few people can afford to volunteer without some other form of support (someone paying your stuff, wether that be rich parents, a boyfriend, a husband, or the rare girlfriend or wife who would, or being retired.

Those 4 points make the viability of those requirements not into a comprehensive test of your skills at adapting to the new role, but a screening object to make as many as possible fail it regardless of their ability in adapting.

Surgery should require only 1 letter. I frankly don't see the point in 2. Even 1 is pushing it, but I'll agree to it. Remove the "must be PhD" requirement as well as the "must be part of a gender team" requirement (how many gender teams exist in the whole world anyways??? - I know *none* here besides the stupid backwards gender identity clinic of the province). It should be any therapist who has followed you for this - without requiring it to be weekly sessions (I don't have 1 hour/week of things to say to a therapist frankly, I'd talk about my cats a lot more than about myself at this point).

[Guest Leah1026]

I would recommend REAL flexibility. Not imagined flexibility with a court order and an army of lawyers. So no more "It's 3 months or bust" thing. A therapist should be able to work that out a LOT faster than 3 months in most cases. If someone needs more time, the therapist should also recognize that. No blanket requirements.

Same for RLT, and I recommend the removal of some stringent criterias such as being employed, volunteering or being a full-time student for the duration:

1) Most people can't afford studies without working part-time, being rich, or having rich enough parents (not my case in any of the ways).

2) Working part-time + studying removes time from your school work. Full-time schoolwork should be 80 hours counting studying time, no way you can be expected to fit a part-time 20 hours/week job AND sleep/hygiene/social/chores in there and not go crazy. Some can do it sure, but expect it of everyone, no.

3) Working full-time for trans people, pre or post-op is a problem in many places. You get looked over or outright discriminated. Lookism also comes in the picture if you're not perfectly passable (see the VRR vs Nixon case, it was about passability despite their clever wording about having a girl childhood - they'd never known if not for 'spotting her' physically).

4) Volunteering means you have no income. Few people can afford to volunteer without some other form of support (someone paying your stuff, wether that be rich parents, a boyfriend, a husband, or the rare girlfriend or wife who would, or being retired.

Those 4 points make the viability of those requirements not into a comprehensive test of your skills at adapting to the new role, but a screening object to make as many as possible fail it regardless of their ability in adapting.

Surgery should require only 1 letter. I frankly don't see the point in 2. Even 1 is pushing it, but I'll agree to it. Remove the "must be PhD" requirement as well as the "must be part of a gender team" requirement (how many gender teams exist in the whole world anyways??? - I know *none* here besides the stupid backwards gender identity clinic of the province). It should be any therapist who has followed you for this - without requiring it to be weekly sessions (I don't have 1 hour/week of things to say to a therapist frankly, I'd talk about my cats a lot more than about myself at this point).

I am tired of this discussion. For the last time. This is not the fault of the Standards of Care. It is the fault of the people you are dealing with. All that flexibility is already built-in to the current SOC. For example: In the SOC it says, that after an initial evaluation, therapy isn't an absolute requirement.

I agree with 2 letters because anyone can find one fly by night therapist to write a letter. Finding two would be more difficult. Think I'm being over cautious? I knew somebody who used to advertise how easy it was to get a PRIMARY letter from a certain "therapist" after only ONE session. How can anyone ethically do that?

You are also exaggerating the bit about "gender team". That is not meant to be a formal term. It is meant to be an informal term to describe the healthcare provider you work with; no formal association is necessary!!!

You and your rantings are just too much for me. I'm done responding to your distortions of the truth.

The problem is the people you're dealing with and where you live, NOT the SOC!!!

[Guest Little Sara]

Ever heard of the NHS, the OHIP? Respectively the national health orgs of the UK and of Ontario. For Quebec its RAMQ. Each is independant of the other. Yet each adopts the same male bovine crap.

I hope you'll agree that Quebec is not the UK. Ontario isn't either, slightly different demographics...

I still want only one letter. I would get one after one session, sure, considering I've been 3 years full-time and can prove it (from parents and such). How many sessions do you need to get a nose job, a breast augmentation, your breasts removed following a cancer, your legs or arms amputated following disease, chemotherapy (it destroys your immunological system) or other types of intervention? None? I thought so. That's why I think 1 is pushing it. It should require a GID diagnosis and that's it. Note that all those interventions, save for chemo, are permanent and irreversible. You don't grow amputated limbs back, or your breasts back. You don't remove implants without it looking had intercourse up. You don't 'undo' your nose job.

Neonatal circumcision should also be stopped, along with routine sex assginment (and surgery accompanying it) of those with ambiguous genitals at birth. Those should only be performed with informed consent. Not 2 years of therapy though. Those are also permanent. See how the docs care about doing it to a neonate?

[Guest angie]

The Standards Of Care are meant to weed out the ones of us whom have

extenuating conditions that would not qualify for SRS/GRS.The whole point

is to try to make certain only those whom really need surgery can get it.

Keeping down the ones whom regret their choice.It happens.

The two letters are all right with me.In fact I am looking forward to my surgical

readiness evaluation.My current therapist has a Phd in gender studies(letter one).

Letter two will come from one of my old talk docs.She was there for me waaay

back when I was still presenting male,telling her who I am.Now I want her to see

the real me.See the woman she only met once in two years of therapy.

The new revisions of the SOC will be released in 2012.Then we will see what changes

have been made.

Angie

[Guest Donna Jean]

Well......

I feel that SOC (Standards of Care) are like any other guideline....A "Standard" not set in stone...just general guidelines...

Sure people get their hormone letter after only one visit to the therapist, but no one goes to jail over it...they just didn't follow the guideline....That covers generality...down the middle....what's best for most!

Because there have been cases of people getting SRS and the suing the doctors later because they changed their mind and blamed the doctors for not knowing that they weren't ready...these standards have been put in place for everyone's benefit...they protect you, they protect the doctors. They try to make sure that everyone is in agreement with what is going to happen. And we all know that we Transsexual are an impatient bunch...we want it NOW!

I have to say that I'm in agreement with the SOC and even having said that I get aggravated myself at the time involved and the hoops to jump through. I did my required 3 months therapy (once a week) before I got my HRT letter, I was prepared for that...I have a girlfriend who got hers in the first couple visits...well good for her...

This SOC doesn't nail anyone down...you can go out there and get all you want if you look around and have the money...you could probably get surgery next monday if you wanted it ....although I wouldn't advise that!

Just a guide line....a speed limit ....to help everyone keep things in place....

I wish everyone the best of luck in they're endevors in all of this.....PLEASE be careful!

**BIGG HUGGS**

Donna Jean

[Guest angie]

If you have the money,you can get your sugery at six months...Six Months!

I brought this up in another group last year sometime.The responses were

from doctors and lawyers and other professionals with the education and money

to fast track their transition.So it is a point of the have's and have nots.

Personally,the slow road has worked well for me.Allowing me to more fully

integrate into my role more fluidly.By the time I get my surgery,I will be more

than ready.Infact,it will truly be the icing on my cake,that cherry on top.

Angie

[Guest Leigh]

If you have the money,you can get your sugery at six months...Six Months!

I brought this up in another group last year sometime.The responses were

from doctors and lawyers and other professionals with the education and money

to fast track their transition.So it is a point of the have's and have nots.

isn't that how it always is...?

but aside from that.. i've found the SOC to be a bit...demanding, mostly on the same points Sara already said. i'm not sure i'll have the money for my top surgery by the time i want it anyway, but getting 2 letters seems a bit much when you're supposed to be on HRT for a year before hand anyway....

that's my two cents

peace&love

Leigh

[Guest Elizabeth K]

WELL the last three current postings, Angie and Donna Jean (MTF) and Leigh (MTF) hit it pretty much as I would have replied. I think slow is needed (augggghhh - but I hate it) and I also find the whole thing a bit demeaning!

But it seems there is a slightly casual approach to obtaining SRS permission - sometimes - a little latitude.

And my therapist (a PhD) said she WOULD giv me my letter. (whew) and she has a source for my second letter - and can advise me on my physical exam letter...

BUT she said it wouldn't be a quick thing. I have had some very deep convesations with her recently. She now says it seems I won't be able to put it off as long as I thought - go figure.

I am like all of you - once I got into transition, I wanted to take it where was is going, The SOC? Well - painfully hard. I tried to work full time as a woman in order to meet those standards, i mean I was slowly getting there. That caused me to get fired. Now I have no income to pay for anything (temporary problem I hope). But the SOC can be a catch 22. I can't get the Real Life thing going because of prejudices against us 'transitioning' transgender. My therapist says if i was already transitioned it would be easier to find a job as people hire women who were assigned male at birth, but pass as women in the workplace. No one wants to take a chance on an apparent 'male' who is transitioning before their eyes.

HARD

Lizzy

[Sally]

I alway wonder if it is really a good thing to put people in charge of themselves - look at the banking industry and the failure of the bail out - the money was given to the people that had messed it up in the first place.

We need some controls and a way to slow down extremely impulsive types so that they do not have irreversable problems if they change their minds - the current system makes that much less likely to happen.

Demeaning, embarassing and a pain in the behind - yes.

But I am willing to jump through all of the proper hoops and dot all of the i's and cross all of the t's to get where I am going.

And as for the second letter any good therapist will have a list of colleages who will set up an interview with you and give you the letter after that meeting - unless you are acting very strangely.

I never wanted to see a therapist in my life - there is nothing wrong with my mind it is just not the right gender for my body, but those were the rules so I went and now I have a wonderful friend and someone who can hug me physically when I need it.

They are actually our friends not our enemies - they are doing all of this in our best interests, I will be watching for any changes as the man in charge is not a friend of the trans community, but he may have more trouble with the AMA than he expects.

Love ya,

Sally

[Guest angie]

I have a friend who self diagnosed,self started HRT within three months.

Here it is thirty months later,and she still hasn't adjusted to her changes.

The standards of care may be a pain,but they would have helped a woman

like her from making the jump before she was ready.Here all our friends are

living female,left our past far behind.While she,is still trying to find herself.

Wondering why she feels so left out,so not one of the girls yet. B is a living

example of doing it the wrong way.If one play's the gate keepers game...

She comes out a winner,everytime.

Angie

[Guest AllisonD]

I knew somebody who used to advertise how easy it was to get a PRIMARY letter from a certain "therapist" after only ONE session. How can anyone ethically do that?

Stanley Biber required two letters of me. I had never been to a gender therapist. I got both of my letters after only one visit to each shrink. I brought with me ten years of clear evidence that I was living in my chosen gender. Rent receipts, utility receipts, pay stubs, my university degree w/transcripts, credit card receipts, anything I had in my file cabinet that showed my name and address. Also court ordered name change from a decade previous, current and two expired driver's licenses, and the receipt for my orchi, also a decade prior. One visit each was enough. Stanley obviously agreed that was enough.

So I have to agree the SOC is not the problem. I flew through the system perfectly legally without even being aware of the SOC until Stanley asked me to get two letters.

Allison

[Guest JenniferLeigh8798]

Kia Ora,

Now I wonder... what if cisgender people agreed that only other ‘post’ op trans-people were allowed to set up the guidelines for the standard of care, would the vast majority of pre op transsexual people acknowledge/accept whatever was laid down? I’ve selected post oppers as the gate keepers for this because, bearing in mind they/we have been there and done that, so in theory [because of our past experiences] have a good idea as to what is needed…

But just imagine how difficult it would be to ‘try’ and please ‘all’ of the pre-op trans-people, ‘all’ of the time…Virtually an impossibility…The post oppers no doubt would argue amongst themselves, egos would clash and when finally all was settled - I’m guessing it wouldn’t be much different to what it is now…

There’s a saying that goes like this “There’s always room for improvement!” [because one will always find fault with what ‘is’]…

And yes, I do have the luxury of sitting back and watching all of this unfold-I’ve done my time, been to hell and back a few times and now am settle comfortably in a place of true contentment …So it’s easy for me to say what I say …A luxury many members have yet to experience...

BTW…

If you could have your say in how the standards could be improved…what would you recommend? This is open to pre and post oppers…

Metta Jendar

Hi all!!! I would like to say that I am pre-op. Not because of choice, but because of cost. The greatest contribution any of us could make, I feel, is to get the WPATH version of care accepted by the Insurance industry. I believe that the SOC is a necessary part of transition. This path is truly a one way trip. It better be because you couldn't live any other way.

[Guest Jean Davis]

Stanley Biber required two letters of me. I had never been to a gender therapist. I got both of my letters after only one visit to each shrink. I brought with me ten years of clear evidence that I was living in my chosen gender. Rent receipts, utility receipts, pay stubs, my university degree w/transcripts, credit card receipts, anything I had in my file cabinet that showed my name and address. Also court ordered name change from a decade previous, current and two expired driver's licenses, and the receipt for my orchi, also a decade prior. One visit each was enough. Stanley obviously agreed that was enough.

So I have to agree the SOC is not the problem. I flew through the system perfectly legally without even being aware of the SOC until Stanley asked me to get two letters.

Allison

This has to be the best example of what the SOC is tring to accomplish. To eliminate as many or all the questions, doubts, and fears; to let you live out all experiences good and bad. Even though Allison had done it on her own she had clear evidence that she was ready for her surgery. The SOC does this to protect us.

If anything should be changed it should be the laws against discrimanation and insurance policies.

Thank You Allison for sharing this

Jean Davis

[Guest]

Over the last 5 years I've seen a lot of changes in my mail. There is a dramtic increase in those getting therapy and legal hormones. There is a decrease in regrets after SRS and deep vein thrombosis. There is even a slight decrease in actual suicide attempts though there are more people here which makes us seem just as busy. I think version 6 of the SOC are mostly responsible for this. It also helps that we've been pushing the SOC and the gender therapist list and legal hormones to make it more acceptable. Certainly I've seen improvements in our members and their outlooks. These changes have been gradual but steady. I think it's good news.

Laura

[Guest Elizabeth K]

I am fairly new at transsexuality issues, having researched it, but never lived through it until recently.

All it requires to have a transition completed through SRS.

As all post op people will tell you, transion is for the remainder of your life.

And again, please forgive me for addressing most of this as MTF issues. That's what I am familiar with, I suppose.

But the requirements for approval for SRS astounded me? I had understood that a person is to demonstrate an ability to live successfully as a woman - that made sense. I didn't realize that NORMAL issues had to be resolved (I would expect Social Anxiety, Split Personality, BiPolar issues and other behavioral problems to be discussed) but I had to show I was stable with my family, job, and money, vocation, and every other problems that may be lurking.

That I knew what I was facing (that made sense) and what could go wrong (didn't expect that, but again sensible). BUT there was so much more - that I had to convince my thereapist that ONLY transitioning was the answer to solving my extreme sadness and inability to live my life in a reasonable manner. I suppose I thought that was obvious.

And other hoops to jump - health, reasonable expectations, knowledge of possible medical complications, the knowledge of potential sexual orientation results, the probable rejection of many current family members and friends .... the list is very long! I never realized you had to be READY to have HRT (I had obviously needed that since puberty I felt). There is the apparent need to ask about EVERYTHING! Fortunately I am a fairly stable individual. My therapist said I have done well, not in the streets, not prostituting myself, not in jail, not in a mental facility, not taking drugs or abusing subsances, not suicidal, not (fill in the blank).

So I discovered the concept - GATE KEEPER.

My therapist is old school - has handled a hundred TS cases. She said two opposing things that guided me toward understanding of her methods (1) the SOC are just RECOMMENDATIONS (2) She is NOT EASY.

So She says - "You are progressing about right!" I really don't know what that means - I guess she sees me as typical on some unknown scale she has hidden in her desk. She also says, 'You are not ready for your letter, but you WILL get it." I don't know why she says this? What does it mean?

So I am blind in this... I just try to be me... I suppose that is what she means - when the 'me' that she knows needs expensive 'sexual reassignment surgery' she will know. I feel so desparate sometimes to be complete - but I am lost... when is that happening? I am 62 years old? Do I get it on my deathbed? Do I have the oppostunity to have SOME of what I feel is my birthright? Will I live to see it?

I don't know, I just don't know.

SOC?

It's not what it was once. But it is still in place!

I get depressed just thinking about it - so I don't.

Lizzy

[Guest Leah1026]

So She says - "You are progressing about right!" I really don't know what that means - I guess she sees me as typical on some unknown scale she has hidden in her desk. She also says, 'You are not ready for your letter, but you WILL get it." I don't know why she says this? What does it mean?

Transition is much more complicated than people realize. If you're *really* interested in the nuts and bolts of the process from the therapists point of view I would suggest reading "Transgender Emergence" By Arlene (Ari) Istar Lev.

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Transgend...tm=1&usri=1

That's a good overview, but it's still not everything. You therapist obviously takes her job seriously and cares a great deal. In today's world those qualities are to be treasured, for their are *many* bad therapists out there.

Trust me when transition is over you'll look back in awe, wondering how you did it, how you managed it all. And a big part of the answer will be your therapist. In the storm that is transition a good therapist is the rock that's always there for you. A good therapist is worth their weight in gold.

She sounds like one of the good ones.

[Sally]

I am about to embark on the HRT later today is my appointment.

My therapist has been that rock for me supplying a stable platform for me to weather the storm of disapproval from my family the departure of my wife and all of the other little things that we worry about so much.

While my finances have been so bad she has not received a payment for several months but is always happy to see me, she uses the SOC as a guideline but her experience with over a hundred transsexual clients she has never had anyone regret their decisions - she just guides us never pushes.

With all of the conflicts going on in my life she just talked to me and listened and made suggestions, when I finally decided that I was ready for HRT and I asked her what I should do now - she told me to find a doctor and she would write the letter to them, she even told me where to get a free doctor visit and low cost blood work and then she added, "I've been ready to write that letter for you for almost a year now."

Everyone is different and a good therapist watches for the signs that you are ready for the next step but waits for you to feel ready.

Love ya,

Sally

[Guest Joanna Phipps]

For all the times that I have complaine, cried, screamed and said nasty things about my therapist, shrink and family doc I dont know what i would do without them. They had reasons for putting the brakes on me, slowing me down and getting me to understand on an emotional level just what transition involved and the changes that it would make in my life.

Many here know the complaining I did about having to do rlt with out hrt, but looking back it was for the best. They wanted me to prove to myself that I actually did need to transition and that I wasnt going off half cocked on another scheme. I know the standards do say that it is up to the patient when to go full time, but there are cases where it is prudent and necessary for a gender team or therapist to make sure that the patient is ready for the next step and sometimes it takes tough measures to assure themselves of it.

How would I improve the standards? Im not sure I would do anything except align them with current research, they are convoluted, and tough but like boot camp they are designed to weed out those who really arent trans. I live in a smaller center and there are no gender specialists here however my therapist, shrink and dr have been good about contating colleagues and getting the information they need to make sure that this works the way it has to for all concerned.

[Guest Isabella]

There's never going to a SOC version that everyone's happy with, but as long as the TG & medical communities work together to improve it, then we're heading in the right direction. The larger issue as I see it, is that the rules & laws of society are at complete odds with one another. RLT? No problem, just don't bother working for us looking like that until you're legally female.

[Guest Miss Aeryn]

And other hoops to jump - health, reasonable expectations, knowledge of possible medical complications, the knowledge of potential sexual orientation results, the probable rejection of many current family members and friends .... the list is very long! I never realized you had to be READY to have HRT (I had obviously needed that since puberty I felt). There is the apparent need to ask about EVERYTHING! Fortunately I am a fairly stable individual. My therapist said I have done well, not in the streets, not prostituting myself, not in jail, not in a mental facility, not taking drugs or abusing subsances, not suicidal, not (fill in the blank).

So I discovered the concept - GATE KEEPER.

Sorry for digging up a old topic, but I had to comment. I agree with the HBIGDA SOC in that it has a lot of room to maneouvere, still clunky as it is. And if I had your therapist Elizabeth with their 'done well by not...' mantra well I would be up Royal Creek without a paddle trying to fit in with their 18th Century beliefs. Lucky for me I've got someone from the 21st. Lucky as in researched and asking as many questions as they all did in the first interview lol sorting the wheat from the chaff.

Aeryn

[Guest julia_d]

hahaha.. very true.. "don't try working for us until you are LEGALLY female".. the last 1700 jobs I have applied for have come back with exactly that answer.. or the more offensive "we don't employ f-ing queers here"

Try getting employment when you are forced to produce a birth certificate and a deed poll paper. What about people over retirement age? How are they expected to work or be in full time education? It's just not relevant and the way the UK insists on employment as a criteria (yeah right.. in a country where the employment figures are in freefall and minimum wage is considered maximum wage, not to mention having something that insurance companies and employers categorise as a mental illness requiring many days off for medical appointments and probably a long time off for srs... riiiight).

I have been abused in the NHS gender system.. most likely in an illegal manner.. so I give up.. Stuff em.. I have jumped through all their hoops and complied with all their criteria to the point of having a surgery letter 5 years ago and 2 meetings with the surgeon... only now to be told I basically have to start all over again... NO! THEY messed it up.. all I did was waited patiently for my psych appointment for my second letter.. which never came... because between the surgical unit and my clinic they never set it up.

SOC .. BS!! .. they have abused me for the last 5 years, and want to abuse me for 3 more.. NO!! .. and people wonder why the suicide rate is still so high.......

[Guest viv]

Hi Hun,

What a way to be treated, I am disgusted no less. You can see by my flag I am Irish.

We have a similar system to yours in Wales/UK. By the time I start Estrogen I will be 2 years

attached to my Trans Meet 1 year signed off from my GT . I am sick and tired of waiting,you

got to pay in the USA I know but you get fast track treatment<<if only I could afford same.

We got to have so much patience , theres jumping through hoops but the way we are treated

sickens me , its inhumane , no less than that imo. I actually thought all the cup cake"s were dead

by now but no,,,,,some survive still, and became freakin politicians !!!. Hope you get sorted

soon hun, sorry re rant , just reading offa the same page as you, keep the faith , luv,viv

[Guest AlexForever]

IF the SOC were actually followed, I would be fine with them.

Problem is, in some places it turns into "our version of the SOC is TEH ONLY VALID ONE 4 EVERYONE!!!111 THERE WILL BE NO EXCEPTIONS"

I KNOW I need HRT. I've known since I was 16.

I'm currently 20 (yay, NO chance of getting that possible inch of height now and less significant genital growt, how great considering I'm planning on Meto...) , still pre-T, STILL IN THE PROCESS OF OBTAINING PERMISSION TO START, because of a too-slow therapist and the Centre requiring a Rorschach test (and the previous Centre requiring €50 every two sessions, which I was barely able to pay, for a whole year, with NO RESULTS!!! I ended up going somewhere else out of frustration but still wasted a lot of money).

I shouldn't have to wait 4 freaking years for something I'M SURE I want and need.

Especially since I've IDed as male for 4 years now, regularly "pass", came out to the whole family (except my brother), and basically have been on RLT for at least 2 years (except for classmates and relatives, other people who don't know about me consider me male).

So, the problem is that the SOC should ACTUALLY BE FOLLOWED by all countries.

[Carolyn Marie]

ISo, the problem is that the SOC should ACTUALLY BE FOLLOWED by all countries.

To that, all I can say is "Amen, my brother."

HUGS

Carolyn Marie