Is This Possible..? (I Really Need Some Advice)

[Guest Glitterpup]

So I only came out earlier this year and I only started researching everything more recently as well so I apologize if I don't understand everything correctly.
My goals for myself and my body right now is to have top surgery and some sort of bottom surgery as well. I am pre everything and just started talking about getting on hormones, thing is I'm not really wanting to get on hormones for most of the effects like voice change, facial hair, etc I mainly want it for genital growth, which I didn't even know happened until a few months ago and when I did see that was possible I became ecstatic and so so happy that I could possibly have somewhat of an actual penis. I am torn on wether or not to start T because of my intention of mainly just wanting growth, so my question is is it possible to have genital growth any other way? Or what about other bottom surgeries? Would they have some sort of the same effect? Again I'm sorry I'm not that educated and I've tried googling some stuff but a lot of it was very vague :/
Thank you!!

[Carolyn Marie]

Clitoral enlargement seems to be a possible outcome of hormone therapy for FtM persons. This is what the Standards of Care V7 has to say about it:

In FtM patients, the following physical changes are expected to occur: deepened voice, clitoral

enlargement (variable), growth in facial and body hair, cessation of menses, atrophy of breast

tissue, and decreased percentage of body fat compared to muscle mass.

.

However, several web sites I accessed indicate that the growth is likely to create no more than a "micro-penis" of less than 2.0 inches. Testes would not be created. It does not appear that the penis created would be functional for the purpose of intercourse.

I did not find anything that suggested that the same effect could be obtained from any means other than testosterone. I would strongly urge you to stay away from herbal supplements or other "home" remedies. They would be useless as well as potentially dangerous.

Carolyn Marie

[Guest Draik]

As Carolyn said, growth does happen, but for probably 99.9% of guys, it is not significant enough I would say to reach a desirable size. For transmen, there are two main types of bottom surgery, and one is a metoidioplasty where they form a "micro"penis out of the enlarged clitoris. There are some examples of it online like transbucket which is like photobucket for transpeople to show their surgery results. It can work like a bio penis (I don't know the right terminology), but I don't know if the size is enough for full "romantic activity."

If growth is the main thing you want out of T, I would say hold off on taking iit for now because there are so many other changes, and if your aren't prepared for them, you might regret starting T. Going on T is more than just a deeper voice and facial hair. Some guys lose their hair to male pattern baldness, while getting hair everywhere else (including back hair). You should definitely look into the changes T causes more to make sure it's something you can handle.

[Guest Kai Reddtail]

I've had some growth and it's nothing substantial. I've seen guys get decent growth, but by the sounds of it even what they get would be kind of underwhelming for you. If that's all you want T for, I wouldn't say it's really worth it. Unless you want the other effects it's a lot of changes for results that are statistically likely to fall short of your hopes.

[Guest Glitterpup]

Thank you all for the info and advice!! I will checkout transbucket. Oh man I thought I would have more growth I've seen a few guys online that have had awesome results and I really want that. In a way I wonder if the other side effects of T would be worth it though, because I go back and forth on wanting a deeper voice, facial hair, body changes etc. and I know there are other side effects as well that worry me, I'm not sure if I would enjoy the long term effects you know? I'm just feeling very frustrated and conflicted.

[Guest]

Along with body changes, many times there are psychological changes with hormones. Please forgive me for being very blunt, but anyone m2f or f2m that is focusing on bottom body parts and sex are probably transitioning for all the wrong reasons.

This is a life changing event that comes with assuming the complete role of an opposite gender. Cherry picking is the recipe for disaster. Much research of one's self far beyond just sex is involved for satisfactory outcomes.

Gender therapists know this, wrong motives will not get approved for hormones. That leaves DIY bootlegging or very worthless herbal concoctions. No good results there.

As a suggestion, back up a bit, reflect on all the implications of being male with all the pros, cons and responsibilities of manhood. Then find a gender therapist and discuss it with a doctor. The web is famous for misinformation and photoshoping. Do it right and for you manhood could really be totally awesome!

I may be just the hated messenger, but here at the Forum, we have known and seen the unfortunate results of unhappy reversals of transitions with negative impacts. JodyAnn

[Guest Glitterpup]

Thank you so much for the info JodyAnn I really appreciate the input. I have had severe bottom dysphoria for most of my life so when I found out that HRT causes genital growth I was really excited, I will definitely not rush into anything before I am certain. And I know I don't want to be normal seeming 'passing' male, I would want to be non-binary and even feminine male and I've felt very conflicted about this and like maybe I'm not a real transgender person and that's upsetting to me :/ I have been going to gender therapy for a while now and I wish I could see my therapist more honestly!! And I just had my first hormone consultation and I'm wanting to talk to them more about it as well. Again thank you for your words, I am trying my best.

[Guest]

Great! With good self research and your eyes wide open you will be fine. I admire that you want to be a nontraditional male. Go break all the molds! Society needs that. Giggle. Hug. JodyAnn

[Guest Clyde Lee]

Although I get frustrated that I don't have normal male gentalia, I do love the growth T's given me. It went from Tic Tac-sized to nearly thumb-sized, and though not large enough for any sort of meaningful sexual penetration, it's fun to play with. Big improvement from what I had pre-T. But if that's all you're looking for, may not be worth it. Adding to what Draik said, keep in mind many of the changes from testosterone are not (easily) reversible. Once your voice changes, it's not going back. Hair you gain (or lose), you're stuck with. So it's definitely something you want to be 100% sure you want.

[Guest Glitterpup]

Sigh thank you all I just feel very confused...I feel so trapped and hating my body so much, I see no other option at this point besides killing myself

[Bulldog1948]

Why don't you see any other option other than killing yourself. Once you make that horrible deceision to kill yourself it has to be extrememly depressing. But, you also need to stop and think about what killing yourself will do to your family members. Especially, the ones who love and support you.

[Guest Raya]

Oh how well I remember the confusion.

I saw 3 real options for me (aside from death, that's no longer something I wish for)

I could 1. Continue leading a dual life, half hidden. 2. Go back to fighting myself, realizing it would be a lifelong struggle 3. Accept myself, live as I prefer.

My point is all three were possible, I spent 40 years bouncing between 1 and 2. Survived it, and it wasn't all suckey, especially once I got over the shame. Finally got to trying #3, acceptance, and it's been real good so far.

So I'm trying to say there are always options.

PS I'm thinking you should always be able to be completely honest with a therapist, it's kinda the point.

[Guest KerryUK]

Like Mike (Bulldog) said,

Killing yourself is not the answer. The first thing I always think when I hear of someone taking their own life is 'their poor family and friends, their lives will be shattered'. I've had the dark thoughts myself and the thing that always stopped me was the effects doing this would have on those close to me.

Eventually, I decided to do something about my dysphoria and sought help from the professionals (after all, they are there to help us). I am now post-op and living the life I always dreamed. Granted, your situation is slightly different and what you yearn seems out of reach to you now (as what I needed seemed so impossible to me decades ago) BUT you just never know what lies around the corner in the medical world.

You're such a special person and you have so much to offer all those who know you (that includes all of us here), please don't throw all of that away and do seek some help from the professionals.

Hugs

Kerry x

[Guest Raya]

Kerry's post reminded me of just how dark it became for me way back when. I could no longer consider how other people would take it if I died. Just couldn't. I was so deeply disturbed, I didn't care as long as it was over.

[Guest KerryUK]

Kerry's post reminded me of just how dark it became for me way back when. I could no longer consider how other people would take it if I died. Just couldn't. I was so deeply disturbed, I didn't care as long as it was over.

Quite frankly I don't know what to say to that. I was trying to help the original poster in what is obviously an awful situation to find themselves in, not help them on their way. I related what helped deter me from taking drastic measures and I genuinely hoped that I may be able to help. Surely, coming along with such negativity afterwards is not helpful at all. Anyway, there we go.

Kerry

[Guest Raya]

Wow, I truly hope I am not helping anyone along the path to self destruction. I don't believe so.

My approach may be a bit blunt, but my lived experience is that life can be great, even after extreme lows. And yes, that was an extreme low, to reach the point where I didn't care. It's still painful for me to contemplate. I share it to empathize, not condone.

And I didn't feel the need to repeat that this was past, and that life is good. My bad if it was not clear.

[Guest Glitterpup]

Kerry's post reminded me of just how dark it became for me way back when. I could no longer consider how other people would take it if I died. Just couldn't. I was so deeply disturbed, I didn't care as long as it was over.

Quite frankly I don't know what to say to that. I was trying to help the original poster in what is obviously an awful situation to find themselves in, not help them on their way. I related what helped deter me from taking drastic measures and I genuinely hoped that I may be able to help. Surely, coming along with such negativity afterwards is not helpful at all. Anyway, there we go.

Kerry

You both have helped just to know that there is a possible future for me. Thank you. I have been mentally ill for a few years now and a lot of my issues are more than just me being trans, and sometimes it's not as easy as just 'not thinking that way'. Like Tracy said if you are in such a dark and evil state nothing is really tangible at the moment and that can be really scary and frustrating, making it a vicious cycle. But I am on antidepressents and seeing a therapist that specializes in gender and sexual issues, but I wish I had more help. I am alone a lot of the time with my partner and Mom gone almost 24 hours a day and that is why I am trying to reach online like this forum and others. Just to know I have support is awesome and I really appreciate it. I hope you both have a lovely day and thank you again.

[Guest KerryUK]

I worked for a few years I a mental health hospital and know what dark places people find themselves in. Very sad.

So, Prince - I know that you are having a really tough time of things but I really do hope that you find a way to cope and you just never know what lies around the next corner. Take care.

Hugs

Kerry

[Guest Nicodeme]

I don't think I saw anyone mention DHT. It's possible to get that if you're already on T for everything else (dunno about it on its own though), but it's used for speeding up changes below the belt if that's a major focus for you.

[DiscreteLoner]

Great! With good self research and your eyes wide open you will be fine. I admire that you want to be a nontraditional male. Go break all the molds! Society needs that. Giggle. Hug. JodyAnn

Go friend! A non-traditional male! That's awesome! I have never heard of it or never considered that option before. You break the rules (it's a compliment) of what people usually think of what males are like (by 'people' I mean mainly me, the one who has just entered the world of non-binary genders). Today I have learned one more thing that me alone can never think of.

Hi five,

DiscreteLoner

[Guest Mickey]

I see many very effeminate cis gender men around here. I see no problems with that at all. You are the only one that can define who you are. Some of us need a lil help in finding that definition of ourselves, and that's not only okay, it's kind of expected most of the time. *hugs*

[JJ]

For me one of the hardest parts of this journey is letting myself evolve into who I am -free of the stereotypes and acting I've projected all my life. I don't want to act like a man -I am one and I just want to act like me.

That's hard. As I have often said to my granddaughter who very much walks her own path no matter what anyone thinks and always has-there is nothing wrong with being unique and being yourself but there will be people who don't like it and people who will make their dislike plain. You have to reach a point where you say to yourself that is okay. And it is definitely not limited to gender issues but to just about every aspect of human behavior. No matter who you are or how you act or look someone will disapprove so you might as well please yourself.

I have had to go through times when I learned who I was and what really fits me and fulfills me. Cis people by and large do that at puberty and we have to go through a sort of puberty ourselves when we decide to live as ourselves at last. Whoever that may be.

Just got back from a Renaissance Festival-we go as often as we can-and one thing that always strikes me is how many people there are who love to express themselves differently. The real diversity and richness of human behavior. Celebrate who you are and give yourself time and permission to discover who that is. You are unique as each of is-but you are far from alone.

Johnny

[Ravin]

It's okay to fall just to the male side of the middle. In my case, I'm not actually bothered by my bottom parts, though if I could have whatever I wanted I'd have nonstandard equipment different from what I have now. I quite enjoy being hairy, so in those two things different from you. T changes a lot of things. Some of them can be countered, and some can't. Like body hair can be removed, plenty of cis men do.

You can go after the changes that will make your body more satisfactory. But whatever you do, it's important to go in fully informed and with realistic expectations.

[Guest cerise]

I like the idea of a vision board where you can paste up a view of for yourself that you would like to see.

Then do it in your mind and allow yourself to modify that vision as it and things become clearer.

My vision I have for instance these days is a stepping out of my old self to become who I am inside. Cerise.

It is just a pencil sketch in my minds eye right now but that is enough for changes to take shape.

Love the parts of you that you don't like as well as the parts that do.

Talk to them in a kind and caring way so they can find their way and let you find yours

Grace will take care of things that self loathing won't.

The Divine Essence of Being.

Hugs Cerise