Jump to content
  • Welcome to the TransPulse Forums!

    We offer a safe, inclusive community for transgender and gender non-conforming folks, as well as their loved ones, to find support and information.  Join today!

Transgender Murder Trial: Hate Crime Charge May Be A First


Guest

Recommended Posts

One question to ask. Does tacking a hate crime on to a murder charge make it less likley the crime will be committed? Do extra penalties deter crime?

Laura

Link to comment
Guest Irielle

Laura, I think I read somewhere a while back about a study showing that making a crime a hate crime doesn't affect its occurrance. In other words, it's not a deterrence when you make a crime a hate crime.

It's kind of like that fact that the death penalty doesn't deter the crimes that have it as their punishment.

What it does do is up the ante when it comes to prosecution. I think the prosecutors can get harsher sentences for those found guilty of a hate crime as compared to those not defined as hate crimes.

Link to comment
Guest ~Brenda~

Laura,

I was pleased to see that the perpetrator was not only charged with murder, but also a bias-motivated crime (or hate crime). What concerns me is that the defense lawyer is trying to argue tha Ms. Zapata was deceitful (implying that begin a woman and living as a woman was a lie) and that somehow there was some justification of the crime. If the public thinks that if you are trans and are living as your true gender, then you are living lie, and are therefore punishable. Leaves us all in a very perilous position right now.

bernii

Link to comment
Guest Elizabeth K

Well - I couldn't help but comment. I wrote:

I don’t understand why everyone is so divided on this issue. As a transperson I can assure you that it is not my intent to be murdered for any reason!

I have the right to judge what I tell people about myself early in a relationship, and if I was dating (I am not) and was very interested in a person, I would certainly want to let some time pass before telling them I was assigned male at birth - although I am totally transitioned female now.

I mean, that is a HUGE personal fact to bring up at the first telephone call. Like saying. ‘Hello Mr. Doe, glad you called me (by the way, I am transsexual) and how are you? ” So I suspect that this very young transwoman was really looking for a ‘normal,’ female life, hoping to meet Mr. Right. It turned out horribly, Mr. Wrong.

Now so many blame the victim. She should have been more cautious, not so trusting. She was just trying to be a happy person. She died over a man’s shame, real or imagined, that he had been betrayed? Or was he just homophobic? Maybe homophobic about himself?

Please read about gender dysphoric people. We are really just like you - but have a really terrible life - because of what we feel is true about ourselves. Its about gender NOT about sex. It is NOT a lifestyle choice. I wouldn’t wish my life on my worst enemy.

How can killing a person because they don’t fit your idea of ‘normal’

NOT be a hate crime? And if it was premeditated, it was a truly evil deed.

I say, let the courts look at this. But remember courts are about the ‘law,' not about ‘justice.’ God is the final judge.

I hope I didn't expose myself too much. Probably no one will even see what i wrote.

Lizzy

Link to comment
Guest Ryles_D
In his opening statements, defense attorney Bradley Martin emphasized that this is not a case about lifestyle and right or wrong; that it’s a case about Zapata’s deceit.

Zapata's lifestyle was exactly what it should be- that of a normal woman. That isn't deceitful, it's likely in those last 3 years her lifestyle was the most honest it'd ever been. She was killed for being trans, that alone should show that we can't expect people to walk around with a "Hi, I was born male" T-shirt.

Link to comment

The deceit is the opposite of what most cis-gender people think. It is in living in our born gender before we transition, not after. This isn't done intentionally and we usually have to work through the confusion first before we are ready. Living as your "True Self is not deceitful it is liberating. The only ones we deceive before transition are ourselves. The "gay/transgender defense" is not enough to justify murder for any reason. It's been tried before. Some would have us wear big neon signs saying TRANSSEXUAL in big letters. That would cause more violence not less.

Laura

Link to comment
Guest mia 1
Well - I couldn't help but comment. I wrote:

I say, let the courts look at this. But remember courts are about the ‘law,' not about ‘justice.’ God is the final judge.[/color]

I hope I didn't expose myself too much. Probably no one will even see what i wrote.

Lizzy

Bully for you as T.R. would say...It takes a lot to post especially when you have to use your email address....I'm proud of you girl!!!!! Mia

Link to comment
Guest mia 1

Yes this trial is going on in my area and here on the Front Range there is no ambivalnce...every one is behind the Zapata family and are hoping for a conviction...the Hate Crime part of the trail is a trial balloon and will make a difference for the trans gendered community. We will not be the red haired step child of LGB(T) community but full members of the LGBT without the parenthesis at least that is the way I reckon it.......

Link to comment
Guest Silver

Yeah, I commented at that site TWICE but neither was posted <_< and they were pretty good too. Ah well, fingers crossed that the next on gets through.

Angie deserves respect, and justice. RIP.

Link to comment
Guest April63

I don't know if adding extra charges really has much of an effect. I think what you really need is education and you need people to realize that we are all just people. Adding up more charges and having people sit in jail longer will not help anything except an increase in our taxes :(

April

Link to comment
Guest Leigh
The deceit is the opposite of what most cis-gender people think. It is in living in our born gender before we transition, not after. This isn't done intentionally and we usually have to work through the confusion first before we are ready. Living as your "True Self is not deceitful it is liberating. The only ones we deceive before transition are ourselves. The "gay/transgender defense" is not enough to justify murder for any reason. It's been tried before. Some would have us wear big neon signs saying TRANSSEXUAL in big letters. That would cause more violence not less.

Laura

yeah. last time i checked we aren't living in cup cake Germany. i just hope that the prosecution can get that across.

Link to comment
Guest julia_d

I loved the comment by the gay guy.. he claims to be open and up up front with people straight off the bat.

I bet he doesn't go to the local truckers bar with a "gay pride" shirt on XD

The comments just show me what disgusting people there are in society.. Trying to justify violent premeditated murder because somebody happens to be living in their identified gender.

Link to comment
Guest Ryles_D
We will not be the red haired step child of LGB(T) community but full members of the LGBT without the parenthesis at least that is the way I reckon it.......

I hope that does happen. :)

I don't know if adding extra charges really has much of an effect. I think what you really need is education and you need people to realize that we are all just people. Adding up more charges and having people sit in jail longer will not help anything except an increase in our taxes :(

April

Actually, getting it labeled a hate crime is a big move. It's a hate crime to kill someone for being black or gay- why shouldn't it be a hate crime to kill someone for being trans? People need to acknowledge this is an act of hate, and that it isn't okay to kill someone for being different.

The comments just show me what disgusting people there are in society.. Trying to justify violent premeditated murder because somebody happens to be living in their identified gender.

That's why I avoid reading the comments.... They're disappointing.

Link to comment
Guest AshleyK
We will not be the red haired step child of LGB(T) community but full members of the LGBT without the parenthesis at least that is the way I reckon it.......

To be honest, I've never thought that being transgendered should be grouped with being lesbian, gay or bisexual, because those are sexual orientations wheras being transgender is more...gender. That's why being the T in LGBT always confused me, and probably is the reason I stay away from LGBT stuff...

Link to comment
Guest Ryles_D

I read some of the comments- it was just awful. One guy practically called her a rapist?! That makes no sense. I wish they did the newest comments first, what I added will likely never be seen. :unsure:

To be honest, I've never thought that being transgendered should be grouped with being lesbian, gay or bisexual, because those are sexual orientations wheras being transgender is more...gender. That's why being the T in LGBT always confused me, and probably is the reason I stay away from LGBT stuff...

Same here. I've seen people suggest we join feminism- and that makes much more sense to me. It doesn't help that when people hear "LGBT" they think "gay". I don't know if the stonewall journalist controversy came up here (basically someone with anti-trans writing was nominated for an award in a LGB publication), but someone said something along the lines of "It is a LGB (no 'T') work. It should only deal with homosexual issues", completely ignoring the 'B' they just mentioned, so it happens even in the LGB/T community.

The reason's I've been given is because transphobia and homophobia go hand in hand. Which I guess is true, they do seem related. A few people said that the woman shouldn't've been killed for being a gay man. (gah!) But that doesn't make it less annoying to see gay rights making the news and same-sex marriage talked about everywhere and people who seem to have no idea about transissues.

Link to comment

I really hope this trial kills the so-called 'gay panic or trans-panic' defense or whatever they call it.

I'm not buying it that this guy didn't know Angie was trans. Just as likely one of his 'home boys' said he was gay for being with Angie, and he couldn't deal with THAT. I've known a few guys who were drooling to get with me when their buddies weren't around, but when they were around, they would act like I was invisible; and I found out that one guy would say horrible things about me (and transsexuals in general) behind my back, but when he could get me alone he couldn't keep his hands off me and tried to force his tongue down my throat. So, I'm not buying his story. When Gwen Arajuo was murdered out here in California, people came forward and said that her murderers knew she was trans. The female that was partying with them that day, pulled one of the devils aside and outed Gwen, or she thought she was outing Gwen. But these animals were afraid of being called gay and they did what they did. They got away with this "worst kind of deception" defense, but I am praying for Angie and her family and that this 'panic defense' is rejected by the jury.

Link to comment
Guest Elizabeth K

One of the moderators who lives in the area told me not to be misled by the comments in the blog (media site in the TOPIC posting). The general Colorado area seems very much outraged by this whole thing. I can only speculate why people want to be so negatve in their responses - yet when I told a person very close to me about what happened to Angie Zapata, I got a very similar reaction: "she was flaunting her transsexuality!" this person said.

I am just mystified how people can be so angry at us gender dysphoric for trying to live a happier life.

Lizzy

Link to comment
Guest ~Brenda~
One of the moderators who lives in the area told me not to be misled by the comments in the blog (media site in the TOPIC posting). The general Colorado area seems very much outraged by this whole thing. I can only speculate why people want to be so negatve in their responses - yet when I told a person very close to me about what happened to Angie Zapata, I got a very similar reaction: "she was flaunting her transsexuality!" this person said.

I am just mystified how people can be so angry at us gender dysphoric for trying to live a happier life.

Lizzy

Yes, well said!! This is what concerns me the most!! There is clearly an attitude among the general public that if you are a transsexual, and if you live your life as to your gender, and if you are "found out" then you get what you deserve!! Horrible! to say the least!! Here in lies the crux of the matter for me... It seems that it is OK among the "cis" that if you present as "trans" then all is OK (well sort of), but if you present as male (FTM) or female (MTF) and are "caught" as trans then you are deceitful and are subject to punishment. What the public needs to understand is that being transgendered does not mean that you are any less than your true identified gender!!

How can this continue?

Worried,

bernii

Link to comment
Guest Leigh

so...against lots of advice in this thread, i went to that website and read some of the comments........................i'm so f*cking p*ssed...............

do people think that we change genders as a joke? to screw with them? as a fetish? what...?!?! i just don't know what to say. they have NO IDEA the crap we go through. they don't know what it's like to live the way we do.... and they don't try to educate themselves. they're just ignorant and hateful. i really want to go to Colorado and have a rally for transkids in support of Angie. i mean, if things like this don't mobilize us, what will? this is one of those times that we shouldn't be afraid to come out in support of each other.... and lets face it. the gay community isn't going to stick up for us on issues like this. we have to DO something....

even though i'm super p*ssed...still

peace&love

Link to comment
Guest Ryles_D
I'm not buying it that this guy didn't know Angie was trans. Just as likely one of his 'home boys' said he was gay for being with Angie, and he couldn't deal with THAT. I've known a few guys who were drooling to get with me when their buddies weren't around, but when they were around, they would act like I was invisible; and I found out that one guy would say horrible things about me (and transsexuals in general) behind my back, but when he could get me alone he couldn't keep his hands off me and tried to force his tongue down my throat. So, I'm not buying his story. When Gwen Arajuo was murdered out here in California, people came forward and said that her murderers knew she was trans. The female that was partying with them that day, pulled one of the devils aside and outed Gwen, or she thought she was outing Gwen. But these animals were afraid of being called gay and they did what they did. They got away with this "worst kind of deception" defense, but I am praying for Angie and her family and that this 'panic defense' is rejected by the jury.

I'm skeptical as well. Is it likely she wouldn't know what name that parking thing (was it a ticket?) was under? It seems like she'd either know or suspect, and that seems like a bad idea to bring him with her if she did and wasn't out to him- because that's not exactly a good way to come out to someone.

I hope that doesn't work out, too. It's really sad what people will say justifies murder.

do people think that we change genders as a joke? to screw with them? as a fetish? what...?!?! i just don't know what to say. they have NO IDEA the crap we go through. they don't know what it's like to live the way we do.... and they don't try to educate themselves. they're just ignorant and hateful. i really want to go to Colorado and have a rally for transkids in support of Angie. i mean, if things like this don't mobilize us, what will? this is one of those times that we shouldn't be afraid to come out in support of each other.... and lets face it. the gay community isn't going to stick up for us on issues like this. we have to DO something....

And the ones saying he's wrong where filled with general ignorance, too. "you shouldn't kill someone just for being gay, I think that's racist" or that it's not a murder of passion if you don't use your hands- grabbing an instrument to use makes it pre-meditated. There was also an awful "we need to teach our kids not to kill and also not to change their sex!" :banghead:

I really don't know what people think, but the fetish wouldn't surprise me. I think "the man who would be queen" (I've never read it and have no intent to, this is all heresay) basically says that it's a fetish. It's either gay men who want a leg up on hte competition or people who get off on the idea of themselves as female. Basically, stupidity.

It doesn't help that people seem to genuinely believe it's what's between your legs that makes you who you are. I've seen comments to 100% cisgendered people implying that SRS would make them the opposite gender. We aren't "women/men trapped in a man/woman's body"- we're women/men who become men/women through surgery. So, by that view, it is deception because you're still "really" your birth sex- that's obviously what you identify as. Why the heck did they think we went through all the trouble of transitioning if that's true?! >_<

Link to comment
Guest Elizabeth K

I just went back to the news site to check to see if they okay'd my reply (they did) and saw so much wrong information, prejudice and hatred I was sick! This seemed to come from men and women alike. Not that I am surprised, but many were up in a pizzy fit simply because the article refered to Angie as a 'she!" And it just got worse and worse and worse.

Now, to be fair., there were kind and considerate thoughts there too.

But my friends, we here are Laura's - we have a moutain to climb if we think anything can be done to educate these people in the non-gender dysphoric community. I am not sure it can be done in my lifetime or yours. I certainly will never give up, but I am really disappointed in these people, many who are probably otherwise decent human beings (or is that me being naive?)

Just a thought or two - and by the way, my very sweet wife says 'see how dangerous it is out there for you?'

YIKES

Lizzy

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Who's Online   4 Members, 0 Anonymous, 97 Guests (See full list)

    • KymmieL
    • KathyLauren
    • Mmindy
    • Markianor
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      80.5k
    • Total Posts
      767.2k
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      11,939
    • Most Online
      8,356

    Chaidoesart
    Newest Member
    Chaidoesart
    Joined
  • Today's Birthdays

    1. **Angela Charlotte **
      **Angela Charlotte **
    2. Carlie
      Carlie
      (63 years old)
    3. Cbxshawn
      Cbxshawn
      (49 years old)
    4. HannahO
      HannahO
      (31 years old)
    5. JustKatie
      JustKatie
      (40 years old)
  • Posts

    • Mirrabooka
      I hope y'all look at this one. A catchy tune released at the end of Covid lockdown. Scarlett is so cute!!!     
    • Heather Shay
    • Mirrabooka
    • Mirrabooka
      Had a weird dream last night.
    • Mirrabooka
      Morning, y'all. Evening here; we had the regulation three mugs full today. Now it's time to drink something else.     No big plans here either, eldest daughter and granddaughter will be arriving on Saturday, and we will have our granddaughter to ourselves for a week after that. We still have plans though. Tuesday we'll go to the swim center, Wednesday we'll take a road trip to visit my mom, Thursday we'll get some mulch delivered to top up the gardens.   I still make other small plans on a daily basis though. The things I do plan nowadays, which is a bit new for me, is that after pinching a nerve and ending up in a bit of pain and getting some treatment from the physio, I am more motivated than ever to exercise more regularly. Tuesday for example, I went for a short (15 minute) early morning walk, went to the pool for some hydrotherapy, and mowed the lawns. Yesterday I did my exercise reps and spent some time on the exercise bike. Today, I went for a 45-minute walk, tomorrow I will do my reps again and go for a long bike ride. As long as I do at least one thing every day, right? The pleasing thing is that I'm losing weight! I blew out to above 95kg early in the year and I'm just under 91kg now. Yay me!
    • Heather Shay
      What one piece of advice would you give to beginning transitioners or considering transition?
    • Heather Shay
      Positive side of the mixed bag.
    • Heather Shay
      Boredom is an emotional state that comes when a person has nothing to do, and is not interested in anything. To stop boredom, most people do something to occupy or amuse themselves. The first known use of the word boredom is in the novel Bleak House by Charles Dickens, written in 1852, but the saying to be a bore had been used to mean "to be tiresome or dull" since 1768. When referring to the mind, boredom is a bad state in which the person feels a deep lack of interest in what is going on around them, and where it is hard to focus.
    • Heather Shay
    • Heather Shay
    • Heather Shay
    • Mirrabooka
      ^ Your story gives inspiration to others.
    • April Marie
      Growing stronger and confident every day.
    • April Marie
      So, yesterday's epiphany was that girl jeans fit me much nicer than boy jeans. Well, duh! So this girl is switching over to wearing girl jeans pretty much full time. I'll keep my others for work jeans. We went out to dinner last evening and I was in androgynous mode...wearing a pair of Bandolino Amy straight leg denim pants. Score!
    • April Marie
      Good morning, everyone!! The coffee upload has started for me but just in the early stages so I'm barely coherent at this point.   You've been missed @Willow - I hope all is going well with your wife and at work.   @awkward-yet-sweet We love to make beans with rice - one of our favorite meals.   No big plans for me today. Small projects around our place and probably some reading. We're going to have some rain off and on, and the temps are still too low for a lot of outdoor work.   Be safe and enjoy this beautiful day we've been given!!
  • Upcoming Events

Contact TransPulse

TransPulse can be contacted in the following ways:

Email: Click Here.

To report an error on this page.

Legal

Your use of this site is subject to the following rules and policies, whether you have read them or not.

Terms of Use
Privacy Policy
DMCA Policy
Community Rules

Hosting

Upstream hosting for TransPulse provided by QnEZ.

Sponsorship

Special consideration for TransPulse is kindly provided by The Breast Form Store.
×
×
  • Create New...