Reactions to current events

[Charlize]

I feel almost sick when i read of the hate being thrown about in our country.  It is perhaps because i may become a target.  I was there before when i was hated for being against the recent wars (including Vietnam....i'm that old).  I was certainly younger then and much more likely to protest and accept the consequences of being in a minority.  Today i feel like mourning for our country where hate is somehow taught to whole groups of people.  There is nothing i can do about it directly but i also don't hesitate to protest when i feel it is right.  I an trying not to demonize those who march under flags of hate.  Seeing them as sick people helps me in that endeavor but it's hard not to speak out.  I often look to the faith of the Quakers, Nelson Mandela or  Mahatma Gandhi to show me a way.  Resistance without violence may be the only way to stop the cycle of hate.

Now do you feel about today's events?

 

Hugs,

 

Charlize

[MaryEllen]

I'm wondering if these rioters are just pawns of some larger factions. Who or what stands to benefit from all this hate and destruction that's dividing this country. Could it be a faction that would like to see this country destroyed and made part of a new world order?

[Carolyn Marie]

Our president should be someone who can and would denounce those preaching hate and intolerance, clearly and unambiguously. as has been the case with every modern president, regardless of party.  Given what I saw today on the news, that is no longer the case.  The man who supposedly represents all of us, and shows to the world who we are as a people, has endorsed (some would say tacitly, some would say directly) those forces of evil, and said that they have equal stature and moral authority as those who denounce evil.  He stated outright that there were "good people" among those supporting bigotry, racism and hatred.

Our president has been endorsed by, and been congratulated by, David Duke, the former Imperial Wizard of the Klu Klux Klan.  This is the same man who, during the campaign, then candidate Trump refused to condemn and repudiate until forced to do so. 

So I join you, Charlize, in feeling sickened, and in wanting to do something proactive against the rising tide of hate in America.  My Uncle Moritz died in a Nazi concentration camp.  I will not stand idly by while our president tells me that Nazis are "good people."

Never again!

Carolyn Marie

[VickySGV]

"Good People" are actually at the center of this storm we are going through.  They are at the eye of the storm where winds are calm or gentle at worst.  Their "goodness" has prevented them from seeing the violence and even knowing the history which they feel free to refute as unproved rumor.  They are "good" because the world has not in their minds touched them and made them worldly (a sin they believe that will devour then).  This results in not being able to see the larger more relevant human experience.  It is a virtue to not let others like you in body and mind move you from your path to righteousness, because a misstep from it will send you to a place of damnation in your afterlife.  If your present life is not perfect, it is the will of a being who intends to make your afterlife one that will be and you dare not risk it by learning what the world is like.

The faces I see in the recent photos from Virginia and other things I keep finding in many places are those of young people who were not taught that they are part of a diverse world, only part of their homogeneous families and near community who have no taint of straying from righteous paths.  Maybe we have bred people who cannot see that it is our diversity that provides richness above money, and even some of that.  When I trace my family tree back a few generations (the 1600's for one line) and see where my children can go back to three digit years (987) through their mother, I find some wonderful diversity, and my grand children's mother adds a new racial branch even there to them.  I am not the pure bred human that others think they see, and I am one who finds that I cannot see advantage to any one thing, except for a cultural stone wall, that I would like to see leveled so I can see others more plainly.

 

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

I do not consider myself to fit the "good people" model being touted these days, I am very much a part of the world they fear from long before I ever said i was "Trans*".

[Jani]

2 hours ago, Carolyn Marie said:

Our president should be someone who can and would denounce those preaching hate and intolerance, clearly and unambiguously. as has been the case with every modern president, regardless of party.  Given what I saw today on the news, that is no longer the case. 

In Seth Meyers opening monologue yesterday he spoke in a clear and sober manner about this.  It's on line.

6 hours ago, MaryEllen said:

I'm wondering if these rioters are just pawns of some larger factions.

Just my thought, but I've read how this movement has been cultivated to believe they are victims and it's OK to hate others.  There is something more sinister going on than what is understood.

Also, because of open carry laws there were many assault weapons and the like displayed by the protesters.  I read how the police were put into a sensitive position because of all the firepower and heightened tensions.   They didn't want a shootout to develop.

It seems we've always had issues to work through in our country, but we do so in a generally sane manner (a number of glaring examples not withstanding).  It seems all decorum has been thrown out the window.   I've said that I think America has lost its way, and with the severe polarization we're experiencing I don't know how we'll get back to center when even horrific events fail to awaken us to the path we're on.   

Sometimes I fear for my granddaughters future. 

 Jani

[MaryEllen]

It's easy to place the blame on one person or a political party but I think we should be looking deeper than that. Where are these protesters coming from. They're being brought in by the bus load. Surely these protesters aren't all working people. They'd be losing their paychecks if this were so. In this day and age, I don't think a working person could afford that. Who are they then?  Welfare, illegals, etc.? Someone or something is funding them. Who or what would benefit by causing this country to be torn apart. I would think, follow the money trail. Big corporations, individuals or a group of individuals?  For what purpose would they be doing this. It is my thought that the plan is to weaken our country so much that we would be forced to join what is called "The New World Order". Don't think it couldn't happen. That's what the Romans thought 2000 years ago and we all know what happened to them. I'm sure by now, you all are thinking that I'm a conspiracy whacko. Maybe I am but maybe I'm not too. Time will tell.

[tracy_j]

It is a much lesser thing, but when I was at work a memo came round from the union about a planned protest march in London (it happened from time to time). The theme of the memo suggested more of a grand day out for the family and kids rather than a serious protest  - free bus laid on etc. Union fees which members pay being used. Personally I protested several times about excesses in provision of buffet refreshments at union meetings but never received any response. At the time others beside myself thought that the union were 'hand in hand' with management with regard to members pay and expenses etc, but the London march I mention (if I remember rightly)  was more of a political issue rather than something for benefit to members. At the time many things which directly affected members pay were agreed with management without consulting the membership. 

It has been stated that there are known groups of agitators here who go from meeting to meeting, although many are known to police. These tend to go to peacful protests to 'stir things up'. It's who stirs them up which is what is needed to know.

I do believe there are ulterior motives and many players in these things, although not usually conspiracy as is sometimes portrayed. There are maybe  too many selfish people to organise a long term successful conspiracy.

Tracy

[Kati]

I have a feeling that there are many hate groups of a variety of stripes lurking in the shadows.  From time to time these groups seemingly feel the need to test the strength of their convictions by revealing themselves in all their ugliness of thought and action.  

I don't have a clue what the next chapter will be.

 Back to the shadows?  Probably.

 More activity?  It's possible.  

Going away any time soon?  Not likely.

[MaryEllen]

My question remains. Who or what is the motivating/sponsoring  force behind these hate groups?

[MarcieMarie12]

The primary motivator is how these people interpret morality (not all of it religiously based, just seemingly to me most of it).  They then seek to force that morality on the rest of us. Another motivator for many of the groups opposed to transgender rights is that they needed a purpose after gay marriage became reality. Need something to keep the donations coming in. 

[Kati]

Perhaps there is some grand scheme behind these groups with a puppet master pulling the strings, but it is just as likely that the events in VA mushroomed into something much bigger and more visible than the organizers ever envisioned.  Generally these groups like to operate just below the radar screen.  

[Cyndee]

First of all I am saddened to hear of the young woman's death in VA, very tragic.

Just turn off your screens and phones, disconnect from social media and the Internet (much of the hate messages originate here), and then smile at a stranger, offer a kind word, do something positive for someone else, real life is full of wonder and beauty.

Cynthia -

[MaryEllen]

In addition to these home grown terrorists, we also have to contend with the radical muslin element that is seeking world domination. The world isn't a pretty picture at the moment. Those who believe in and read the Bible know what is coming. (hint) It isn't going to get any better.

 

[Charlize]

Cynthia i have to agree.  I try to remember the serenity prayer.   Just let go as there isn't much other than stress that world events bring on.  If i can change somethhing or lend my voice i'm there but rotating in the juices of fear and hate doesn't help  me or anybody.

 

Hugs,

 

Charlize

 

[Tejana]

On 8/15/2017 at 0:51 PM, MaryEllen said:

I'm wondering if these rioters are just pawns of some larger factions. Who or what stands to benefit from all this hate and destruction that's dividing this country. Could it be a faction that would like to see this country destroyed and made part of a new world order?

Excellent post.  I couldn't agree more.

[Guest]

I remember some years ago when an area KKK group announced they'd be demonstrating in front of the Jewish Community Center.

A local talk show host encouraged listeners to show up and stage a peaceful counter-protest.  When the bigots showed up at the appointed time, we were well over 1000 strong.  And their "demonstration" consisted of about six men wearing silly hoods and robes.  They stationed themselves along the sidewalk, saying nothing...and we just laughed at them.  Finally, they gave up and left.

What I remember most clearly is that someone pointed to the sky, and there was an eagle flying overhead.

[Charlize]

I heard that much the same happened in Boston with over 40,000 thousand counter protesters and about 100 white supremacists who had trouble having any rally at all.  There were some arrests but not due to clashes with the protestors or policesimply in a crowd that large it seems almost inevitable that some aren't well behaved.

 

Hugs,

 

Charlize

[Guest Rachel Gia]

It apparently was the same in Vancouver last weekend with very few racists and a large number of counter protesters.

[Guest Rachel Gia]

http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/anti-immigration-rally-at-vancouver-city-hall

 

[Cecilia]

On 8/16/2017 at 6:50 AM, MaryEllen said:

My question remains. Who or what is the motivating/sponsoring  force behind these hate groups?

 I have some thoughts on that question / subject.....   Our country was founded on hate (and genocide).  I think now we just have access to seeing more of it.  When the Founding Fathers wrote the Constitution; they said Blacks were three fifths of a white person. They were not afforded equal rights or looked at as a full human being until the 13th Amendment generations later.  Even then, really they were not given equal respect until MLK.  Remember "Strange Fruit".  Horrible.   Blacks are still held back in many ways, and forced to remain dependent on entitlements (inner city ghettos do not provide an easy way out).  Additionally, early White America committed genocides against Indians;  an example of which was the Trail of Tears.  To this day it's hard for Indians just as it's hard for blacks and some other minorities.  In WW II,  we made internment camps and threw everyone of Japanese descent in them.   America hated Asians too.  In the 1800's they made the Angell Treaty, Chinese Exclusion Act, and the Geary Act.  If you looked Asian;  you were denied the ability to come to America or stay in America if you were already here.   The Nationalization Act in 1790 said you were only allowed to become naturalized if you were White.  When we consider the brutal history of our country;  it makes it easy to see how these hate groups feel historically justified in their bigotry and racism.  History involving Mussolini, Stalin and Hitler must validate to modern racists that Fascism is a viable authoritarian form of government and it is attractive to bigots and racists that are spooled up about nationalism.  Equally,  socialist radicals believe Marx and Engels architected the perfect solution with Socialism and want to see that come to USA.  But Socialism also has show itself to be authoritarian and genocidal.  So the far-left and far-right are founded on hatred.  Throw in high taxes, lack of access to affordable healthcare, production moving to other countries, and overall poverty and you see millions of Americans being disenfranchised.  And when someone becomes disenfranchised with the Centrists (Classical Liberalism,  Libertarianism);  they move up the political X axis to authoritarianism and historically that means hatred and abuses.  And I also blame the media for altering the culture to sensationalize hatred and make it seem attractive to disenfranchised people.   IMHO of course.