When is it time?

[Cindy Truheart]

Okay.

 

Background and context first.

 

My wife of 13 years has been working on becoming my best friend and roommate. (Hella long story there, let's just move on.) So after she found out that she was going to get some money from an insurance policy (something like $10k), she suddenly decided that she wanted to separate our finances. At first, this crushed me because it meant that she felt she couldn't trust me. It hurt me on another level because despite my making more money than her the entire time we've been together and the 2 years of her not working and me paying the bills, she didn't want to put any of it toward my surgery. Then, I saw the advantages because rather than constantly having to try and get her to agree to a budget that put money in the bank for my surgery, I would be free to save as much as I wanted!

 

But the separating of the finances isn't going so well. I pay off a credit card, tell her it's paid and that we shouldn't use it. Then discover two months later that she's used it and that no payments have been made. Late fees abound, joy. The Amazon account that we shared was in my name, so of course we just left it alone, she pays me for anything she orders. But every time she orders something, she uses the points on the card to reduce her bill. I finally said something about it and she acted like I was being a penny pinching jerk, when I'm the one building up the points. We'll be out doing something and she'll offer to pay for whatever (dinner, coffee, drinks, etc), but she puts it on the joint account and when it comes time to settle up she's suddenly "forgotten" she offered to pay! And to top it all off, because she works for the leasing company that runs our apartment complex, she gets a discount for the rent. SHE gets a discount on the rent... $268 a month for an approximate bill of $1400. Oh, and she makes as much as I do now....

 

I'll be honest, I don't think she's being malicious, but I'm kinda getting $(*%&. I'm thinking about removing myself from the joint credit card and the joint account. I already have my direct deposits going into a new bank with my new checking account. I don't know whats going on with her, but I feel like I need to protect myself, my credit. I had thought she didn't trust me and it hurt. But her actions seem to be telling me to stop trusting her.

 

There are many other factors here, many other emotions and things going on. I don't want to make a wrong step and ruin what we have left. But lately I'm wondering, what the hell DO we have left? It's been very important to me to keep her in my life in whatever way possible. Unfortunately I've learned she doesn't see things the same way that I do and that love isn't always enough in this world....

 

So I'm wondering, is it time to finally make a hard break? This halfway, quasi-break up is beginning to get under my skin. I'm finally starting to understand myself and how to navigate this world as me (STARTING!) And between her depression and this passive-aggressive behavior, I'm kinda done with it all. I'm beginning to pull myself out of a pit of depression that I've lived in for my entire life. And it seems to me that every time I've managed to pull myself out of that swirling maelstrom of black madness, I'm getting pulled back in. If it isn't one thing, it's another. Frankly, I'm sick of it. I can't get a man and I can't have my best friend. I'm feeling like it's time to go solo again.... But I hate that lonely road too.... Advice is REALLY welcome here, and thank you.

[tracy_j]

In my opinion you have not really separated your finances at all. It's just bits and pieces that have been hived off. It sounds like it's time to take her decision to seperate finances and form a plan between yourselves to do it. I am not familiar with your type of lifestyle. My partner and I have always had seperate finances except for the mortgage account , which was used just for buying the house, which I always handled, so I am not in the ideal position to advise you how to do things. Perhaps pay off the credit card with a fresh one opened by yourself then close the original one, saying you got a good deal to work it out.

 

There again, it seems like symptoms of deeper issues. Your wife may well not see things the way you do. I can only say that the way I did things in the end was to move ahead and trust that things would workout. That is not to say I was inconsiderate, but being confident in myself, rather than uncertain, trying placate someone who was probably very unsure herself too, has seemed to make all the difference.

 

Hope it helps!

 

Tracy

[jae bear]

Hi Cindy, First I must say that I am jealous of your bravery I’m a complete coward but I think I’m happy enough knowing who I really am at the moment (With some much needed HRT help) I’m having similar issues after 17 years myself but mines a little different as my spouse just seems to be irresponsible rather than  passive aggressive. She just got a job herself after a decade at home but she took care of me when I was extremely injured I needed her help, truly if it weren’t for her I would never have lived through it and I have my life to repay her. I love her so much I don’t know what I would do without her, and I’m very scared that her feelings for me will change, but I would spend my life by her side if that’s what I had to do, But I do need to be me at the same time. We do have separate accounts too, but they’re always comingled as she transfers what she needs without asking, runs up the credit cards and buys what she wants even when our budget is so tight top Ramen is hard to account for. I’m also jealous of your rent about fell down when I saw it, my rents around 2800 and climbing every year the housing here it’s just insane and the cost of everything plus our insurance is draining the accounts faster than I can put it back in. I took some good advice from some of the beautiful people here and I’m going to seek counseling for myself and for my marriage and then maybe merge the two somehow with some advice from professionals. I honestly think counseling is a very important thing to do, before you make any big decisions that separate you two, please see someone who knows much more than we all do... (Why am I rhyming?)

squishy hugs

Jae

[Cindy Truheart]

On 2/21/2018 at 8:56 AM, jae bear said:

Hi Cindy, First I must say that I am jealous of your bravery I’m a complete coward but I think I’m happy enough knowing who I really am at the moment (With some much needed HRT help) I’m having similar issues after 17 years myself but mines a little different as my spouse just seems to be irresponsible rather than  passive aggressive. She just got a job herself after a decade at home but she took care of me when I was extremely injured I needed her help, truly if it weren’t for her I would never have lived through it and I have my life to repay her. I love her so much I don’t know what I would do without her, and I’m very scared that her feelings for me will change, but I would spend my life by her side if that’s what I had to do, But I do need to be me at the same time. We do have separate accounts too, but they’re always comingled as she transfers what she needs without asking, runs up the credit cards and buys what she wants even when our budget is so tight top Ramen is hard to account for. I’m also jealous of your rent about fell down when I saw it, my rents around 2800 and climbing every year the housing here it’s just insane and the cost of everything plus our insurance is draining the accounts faster than I can put it back in. I took some good advice from some of the beautiful people here and I’m going to seek counseling for myself and for my marriage and then maybe merge the two somehow with some advice from professionals. I honestly think counseling is a very important thing to do, before you make any big decisions that separate you two, please see someone who knows much more than we all do... (Why am I rhyming?)

squishy hugs

Jae

 

Because she didn't leave me right away when I came out to her, I swore that I'd stay forever. Even when I told her that I'm not attracted to women, I was still willing to be married to her, to be a partner with her, for the rest of our lives. But without the physical aspects of a relationship, she doesn't believe that we have a relationship. So she told me that as far as she was concerned, the marriage was over. I agreed with what she wanted. But now I feel like, if the marriage is over, why am I still here putting up with this? Luckily she's found a guy online that she's been talking to lately and is going on a date next week. Thank the Powers Above and Below!! It has improved her mood substantially!

 

Oh, and our rent is $1400 because we live in the north Denver area. But if you really want to have your jaw hit the floor then I can tell you about what our mortgage payment was back in NC... $375 a month (no I didn't miss a digit), for a three bedroom, 1100 sq ft home, 1/3 acre of land, with a full basement, in the city limits. As we like to say, the rent in Hell is really cheap!

 

I see a therapist weekly, although we are getting to the point that I probably don't need to go every week. However, I've never been able to get my ex/roommate to go to counseling. She wouldn't go alone, she wouldn't go to a support group, she wouldn't go to couples counseling, she refused to do any of it. It was as if she unplugged from reality and refused to acknowledge that I was transitioning until recently. Now she talks as if who I was died and I'm someone completely different. Fine by me. I just wish she would hurry up and move on already then.

 

But I guess you could say that the worst part about it all is that I can't seem to find anyone to talk to. My ex/roommate doesn't obviously doesn't understand, I've got a co-worker who is Bi, but she doesn't understand. And hell, I can't even find another trans woman who has been in my position, or even one close to it. At least not anyone nearby that I could go have coffee with so we could talk. All the trans people I know around here are either retirement age or in their twenties! Or we have absolutely NOTHING in common past the fact that we're both trans. There's just too much of an age gap, too much of a generational distance, and not enough commonality to make for a friendship. So I end up coming on here or FB and pouring my heart out only to either be completely misunderstood, or dismissed, or patronized, or ignored. I end up feeling bad because it seems like I'm wasting everyone's time.

 

But, whatever. Par for the course I suppose.   ....funny thing is, when I finally realized that I'm trans two years ago, I was SO HAPPY! Because I finally realized that I wasn't alone. I wasn't so different from everyone else. There were people out there who were like me. My first support group was magical. I wanted to get to know everyone and to find friends that I had a bunch of stuff in common with. Instead, despite being part of the trans community, more and more I feel separate from it. The people I've met with similar interests, want nothing to do with me. The people that I enjoy being around and I think are really cool, want nothing to do with me. You know who does want to be with me? My ex/roommate who would like nothing more than for me to go back to who I was. My cis co-worker who is fine with being my friend that she can complain to about her life but doesn't have the time for me. And men who only want me for an evening. So, that is my life. It is what it is. And it's all mine. Bitter loneliness. Never ending isolation. An eternity of being misunderstood despite the fact that I finally know who I am. ....I guess I do need to keep seeing that therapist.

[Guest Rachel Gia]

I did not read the whole thing because I have issues with reading but the part i did read sounds like your partner has debting issues which is not something any kind of pleading can solve. Its also probably the most common addiction going on in North America right now so its could be considered normal.

I still have issues with my finances but went to Debtors Anon. and got some skills and tools , one of which is a charge card and not a credit card. I have to pay it off every month so I can't over spend.

I hope I an not overstepping here but part of the reasons behind racking of credit cards et al is it is a way of escaping and dealing with hard to handle emotions.

 

I only quoted a few of the signs so's not to clutter up the post.

 

4) Compulsive shopping: Being unable to pass up a “good deal”; making impulsive purchases; leaving price tags on clothes so they can be returned; not using items you’ve purchased.

5) Difficulty in meeting basic financial or personal obligations, and/or an inordinate sense of accomplishment when such obligations are met.

6) A different feeling when buying things on credit than when paying cash, a feeling of being in the club, of being accepted, of being grown up.

12). A feeling or hope that someone will take care of you if necessary, so that you won’t really get into serious financial trouble, that there will always be someone you can turn to.

[jae bear]

 oh my gosh Cindy get out of my head, you really hit the nail squarely... I don’t have any friends to talk with either, my wife doesnt want to talk at all, my other friends don’t know as I’m not out yet... too bad your so far away, I would gladly have coffee or tea with you and chat up a storm!  On the topic of rent I seem to remember my 1100 square-foot three bed two bath being 4755 a month not including property taxes and when I sold it we got nearly $810,000. at the moment it’s actually worth 1.3 million if you can believe it ! It was a cute little place built in 1958 and I kept it fairly period But I did upgrade it with crown molding with modern paint accents and a nice Seattle red front door. And it had such a lovely little backyard I fell in love with the place, even though it was cozy I wouldn’t mind another one but the cost simply keeps me away, I think there is a small condo in my future.

squishy hugs,

Jae

[jae bear]

Great outline and tips Rachel! I guess I shouldnt throw my wife all the way under the buss, most of her credit card use is for her student loans, but she could do with less retail therapy now and then... She is trying harder, crock pot meal planning is working well for her and I love the plentiful helping size (important to most bears) that and she is a good cook, but she will tell you herself, if you want to know where the good food is, follow the fat girl! Thats pretty much how we got married in the first place!

squishy hugs,

Jae

[Cindy Truheart]

On 2/24/2018 at 12:49 PM, Rachel Gia said:

I did not read the whole thing because I have issues with reading but the part i did read sounds like your partner has debting issues which is not something any kind of pleading can solve. Its also probably the most common addiction going on in North America right now so its could be considered normal.

I still have issues with my finances but went to Debtors Anon. and got some skills and tools , one of which is a charge card and not a credit card. I have to pay it off every month so I can't over spend.

I hope I an not overstepping here but part of the reasons behind racking of credit cards et al is it is a way of escaping and dealing with hard to handle emotions.

 

I only quoted a few of the signs so's not to clutter up the post.

 

4) Compulsive shopping: Being unable to pass up a “good deal”; making impulsive purchases; leaving price tags on clothes so they can be returned; not using items you’ve purchased.

5) Difficulty in meeting basic financial or personal obligations, and/or an inordinate sense of accomplishment when such obligations are met.

6) A different feeling when buying things on credit than when paying cash, a feeling of being in the club, of being accepted, of being grown up.

12). A feeling or hope that someone will take care of you if necessary, so that you won’t really get into serious financial trouble, that there will always be someone you can turn to.

I pay the credit card off at the end of every month. The issue isn't that I'm in debt, or she's in debt. The issue is that she kept using the card when we both agreed to stop using it and because I wasn't paying attention and she never does, it didn't get paid for two months. I've almost filed bankruptcy twice and pulled my fat out of the fire both times, I know what I'm doing here, I'm questioning whether or not she does.

[VeronicaStone]

Methinks thou doth protest too much in the above.

[MaryEllen]

56 minutes ago, VeronicaStone said:

Methinks thou doth protest too much in the above.

 

Why would you say she's protesting too much? Because she doesn't want to be in debt?? What am I missing here?

[Charlize]

I have grown to love the Serenity Prayer that i learned as i started on a path to sobriety.  "Grant me the serenity to accept what i can't change" seems to fit here.  Cindy it seems you cannot change your wife's spending habits.  That takes us to the second part of the prayer  "the courage to do the things i can".  It seems you need to change this situation and move on with your life.  I've found over the last few years that accepting things as they are rather than letting them upset me helps me to relax and find the best course forward.

This is something that comes up for me in many issues but if i take a deep breath and look at the problem with this lens it helps me find a path forward.

 

Hugs,

 

Charlize

[VeronicaStone]

Because those who use cards are by definition in debt. And people who use cards spend on average something like 32% more than someone who pays by cash, because a card reduces friction and the "ouch" factor of cash. It is fact. Which was brought up by Rachel Gia.

[jae bear]

Wow Veronica,

 I could not agree more, I have been selling off everything not nailed do to keep out of debt. I abhor car payments, so I drive whatever affordable thing I find that fits my needs... I sold my F250 turbo diesel crew cab longbed to pay bills, but it was kinda a step away from my overcompensating nature now that I have begun transition. I found a nice 1998 Ford windstar minivan for $300 at an auction, got a little work done to make it run right and checked all the safety items to make sure it was good, I'm quite proud of my mommy van and keep it clear in and out.

 

Wife just texted me... sent me the lyrics to the song "if we're honest"

Hit me like a ton of bricks, have to hide in bathroom at work and cry a little bit...

 

I think things are going to be okay in the end...

Love to all,

Jae 

 

I'd post the lyrics here, but I don't know if that is ok since it is copyrighted material-

[JBfox]

Hey Cindy,

 I really think you should take the next step forward and officially separate things that could bind you financially. There's nothing wrong being best friends with her, living with her, and still trying to enjoy some life together; however, friends don't usually share accounts you know? Sure you guys were more than that at one point, but you're moving on with that phase.  I think you're on the right track. She's either irresponsible with money, or because she knows it can be covered in the long run she's not terribly worried about it. I don't think you finally following through with something she decided should be all that damaging. Though I'd hate to say, if it is, maybe that part's intentional.

 From my own experiences; I've roomed with a variety of friends, and while you share responsibilities like rent, housing bills, groceries, and maybe cover each others meals occasionally. I don't think it's wise to share sensitive accounts with them in that way. Just me and my perspective on the situation, and to note that I've never had a serious relationship in which finances were shared. I hope you can figure it out without any more trouble to your friendship.

 -Valyn

[VeronicaStone]

Too true. Nearly every time I've shared accounts with "friends", I've been burnt.

[Jani]

I agree with Valyn.  In fact I have married friends that only share an account that's used for shared expenses, like housing, food, etc.  One has an older phone, the other likes the newest things.  It makes sense to them. 

 

Cindy it may be time to have that discussion with your spouse.  

 

8 hours ago, VeronicaStone said:

Because those who use cards are by definition in debt.

I agree in principal but not totally.  Yes they are a buffer to reality and hence some people get over zealous in confusing needs and wants which encourages living beyond one's means.  I use my card for 95% of my expenses and never carry more than a few dollars cash in my purse.  Obviously I pay off my balance  each month and so I never incur a finance charge.  It helps me greatly with understanding where my money has gone since I use a financial tool that Fidelity provides (think: Quickbooks) to categorize and budget my income and expenses. 

 

TL:DR, Credit cards can be a wonderful tool for living or a deceiving tool that chains you down.      

 

Jani

[Rachael]

I agree credit cards are easy to spend large amounts and then wonder how can I pay this. If managed properly credit cards can be helpful. Bottom line is you can not spend more than you make and have money. Good luck. 

[VeronicaStone]

Le sigh....

 

https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/credit-cards/credit-cards-make-you-spend-more/

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/27/your-money/credit-cards-encourages-extra-spending-as-the-cash-habit-fades-away.html

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-science-behind-behavior/201607/does-it-matter-whether-you-pay-cash-or-credit-card

https://www.moneycrashers.com/you-spend-more-money-when-you-use-a-credit-card/

https://www.livescience.com/2849-study-credit-cards-spending.html

 

Income and outgo is easily tracked. I use a debit card for most things, so that appears in my bank statements. Receipts for cash. Cell tools like GnuCash, Everydollar, or simply using your camera or note taking app can easily be used and will follow you wherever you go.

 

Obviously budgeting before the month begins makes things even smoother.

[jae bear]

I like to use the app CamScanner to keep track of receipts it’s really easy and a simple print out at the end of the month gets filed in the drawer,  voilà !

hugs,

Jae

[VeronicaStone]

Nice tip!

[jae bear]

Hi Veronica,

 I really like how it straightens out your receipt image and makes it look like a fax, it'f fun to watch the app stretch and squeeze the frame to square the image up...

Hugs,

Jae

[Cindy Truheart]

On 2/27/2018 at 6:16 AM, VeronicaStone said:

Le sigh....

 

Let me echo this sentiment for a moment while I clarify for you.

 

#1 - I have a debit card which I use for most purchases.

#2 - I use a credit card for online purchases or in places where identity/credit fraud chances are high because it gives greater protection.

#3 - I don't have a car payment, I pay the credit card off every month, and I have no other credit accounts.

#4 - I'm saving approximately $1,000 a month for my surgeries. Sometimes less, sometimes more, but I average 1k. In other words, not only do I have a good grasp of my finances, I stay on track when it comes to my spending.

 

On 2/26/2018 at 5:14 AM, VeronicaStone said:

Methinks thou doth protest too much in the above.

 

Methinks thou doth stick thine nose where it should not belong and you make assumptions out of ignorance.

[Carolyn Marie]

Cindy and Veronica, please cool your jets.  If you can't, please just stop replying in this thread.  Thank you.

 

Carolyn Marie