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jae bear

What’s the accepted benchmark, can I just be me in girl mode?

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jae bear

I was talking with my psychiatrist that is inside my medical insurance coverage, and we talked a bit about when I’m going to live full-time. I hadn’t really thought about this at all as I honestly thought I was going to spend the next year in boy mode even if it was going to be a ridiculously difficult undertaking. Didn’t really ask him if there is a standard benchmark by which my girl mode would be accepted, as honestly I’m not exactly a super feminine girl. All the girls in my family are This way, when my mom was young you couldn’t get her into a dress unless you wanted to get bitten, you’d only find her in boots jeans and a T-shirt driving a tractor or sitting in the truck, and that’s pretty much how she was until she was much much older in her 50s and onward, you would just never find her in a dress. My sister is also very similar I don’t think I’ve ever seen her in a dress, it’s just nice tops jeans and high tops, and honestly that’s very much me. I think my aunt would be the most feminine of the bunch of us, but even she is All about the pants shirts and tennis shoes, although she does dress quite nice and always has a collection of great sweaters and jackets. I guess this leads us to me, as I don’t fall far from the tree, I’m all, jeans T-shirts and a jacket or a sweater with a pair of hightops, that is very much my style, and all of it would be from the women’s department, but In my girl mode no one would currently gender me as female at all, in fact I doubt they would look twice. This of course is due to my fairly NOT long hair, and my three days stuble every week for my electrologist. I know it sounds like cheating, I feel like it’s cheating, but that’s just my girl mode, is it really considered living full-time if nobody has any idea of your true gender?

Hugs,

Jae

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Jani

Jae, Jae, Jae!  You're not doing this for other people to notice.  You're doing this for you!  Now at some point the validation would be nice but it really is secondary.  We all want to blend in and be recognized for being ourselves.   

 

So you dress like a tomboy and you have stubble a couple days a week.  This is just an androgynous time for you; a time to get comfortable within your newfound skin.  Do not fret!

 

Jani

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MaryMary

Good question. There's a big gray zone really. I'm 4 years in since my coming out and many people I know still use male pronouns when talking about me. I'm 0 good with the getting respect part of life. I don't think that in real life many people really think i'm really a woman. You could say i'm full time trans* that for suuuure :D hahaha Everybody get i'm trans* lol But what does it mean "full time"? To me it's more of an old, archaic therapist slang for gatekeeping. To use a hockey metaphore to me full time sounds like the penality box I was thrown in to get treatment. I agree with Jani, I prefer "androgynous time" to "full-time" :D

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VickySGV

Each of us has our own "standard of living" as far as dress goes.  My wardrobe is all over the place and I have some things I hardly ever wear, but I have just learned when "THE RIGHT TIME" to wear them has come.  I was a presenter for one partner of a Trans / Cis couple at a Marriage Vow Renewal and while the gown is not my favorite formal wear, it has been used since the wedding. (Three times since the wedding 10 years ago).  When I am on stage with my Transgender Chorus, I am  in an ankle length "concert black" dress or skirt and top combo.  I have other clothing that is "costume" stuff that I wear when needed.  My  most usual daily wear though are some type of slacks or shorts, and a top I have picked up at some Pride Event or a party for some group I am part of.  One shirt I love I bought in San Francisco 6 days after my GCS which says "I Am So Over The Rainbow" and I wear it occasionally at events with my day-glow pink wig. 

My personal "benchmark" for full time was when I realized that I was comfortable with any of this on and that I could pick and choose what I felt like on a given day.  There is no one right way.  If I pop any eyes with the safety glow shirt and purple shorts I have on right now, that is the eye owner's problem.  Some people are in a hurry to ignore me, but that is OK too.  Most people may not really know what gender they are talking to, but my demeanor is usually sweet and caring, and that is the make or break.

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jae bear

I guess I was just worried that my version of girl mode might not be good enough for the psychiatrist to recommend my surgeries, it never occurred to me that just being rather tomboyish is perfectly fine, I didn’t want to ask him if there were some requirements that I had to meet as I was a little scared of what the answer might be. I do have to say that I am very much looking forward to advancing the schedule of girl mode, I’m getting the keys to my studio apartment in 10 days and I know by that weekend I will be busy ordering online to get my Initial wardrobe started. I know a few things I need to order in advance are going to be a fabric tape measure and a few of the body care  essentials that I’m already starting to use up that belong to my wife, hopefully she won’t be upset that I’ve been using her products but if she is I’ll just buy her some more. The one thing I’m Unsure about ordering online is shoes, as I know the size I wear converts roughly to a 12 wide but I guess I’ll have to find a place that has easy returns just in case they don’t fit quite right. I had ordered some hightops from eBay but they were so narrow I couldn’t get my toes in them at all, I have no idea who those shoes are for. Do any of you have suggestions for a great place to buy shoes?

Hugs,

Jae

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ChickenLittle

Hi Jae, 

 

If you want to buy online, I have friends who order from Zappos because she have free shipping both ways; meaning if you don't like them or they don't fit you send them back for free! I just looked and they have up to women's size 13 and offer W and WW. 

 

And as for what your therapist considers living as a woman, it's probably a good idea to talk to him about it! There's no one-size-fits-all way to live your life and I can't imagine a therapist saying "you have to wear this type of clothes" for him to write a letter. I think the one year thing is mostly about being out to the important people in your life, like friends/family, workplace, etc and less about the way you look. If they expected us all to look cis before they'd approve us for surgery, that would be ridiculous! I agree with Mary that the whole concept is a form of gatekeeping and should be scrapped, but it's what we have to work with for now. 

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Kirsten

I use shoe dazzle. They are petty good. They carry a pretty good range of size 12 shoes. And they are rather affordable I think. Or at least a good mid range. All of the purchases I’ve made have been decent quality. But it is a monthly subscription so you have to remeber to go online every month before the 5th to opt out if you don’t want to be charged. And honestly the daily deals are always better than the regular subscription deals. There’s clothes and jewelry as well. The clothes are also decent quality. Even the accessories. But jewelry is not that great. 

And I wouldn’t worry too much about fitting in with others cookie cutter “female” mold. Just dress act and be yourself. Androgynous is a fun look. I jumped directly into it. And I haven’t heard anything bad from anyone. Some days I look more female than male. Others it’s the opposite. And I’ll even throw a little makeup in here and there as well. Just nothing crazy. I think you’ll be surprised how accepting people are. I was. 

Kirsten. 

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jae bear

@ChickenLittle I have heard of Zappos from a friend, I think I am going to give that a try for sure! Thanks for the heads up!

@Kirsten I am definitely down for a more androgynous look, and maybe push my look a bit more female on the days I can shave! I can't wait for my hair to grow longer, sometimes I am just sooo impatient! I wish electrolysis wasn't so rough on my face, but I am excited for the end result!

Hugs,

Jae

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VickySGV
4 hours ago, jae bear said:

I guess I was just worried that my version of girl mode might not be good enough for the psychiatrist to recommend my surgeries,

 

Therapists are not supposed to be handling things that way, and if they start to, they become your FORMER therapist real fast and you can say why you fired them without harm. 

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jae bear

I don’t think my therapist is doing anything like that, I think it’s more of my insecurities about the idea of how I present myself in girl mode, or I guess maybe tomboy mode since that’s kind of the way I am, and the way my sister, my aunt and my mom were to, but someday when I feel more adventurous I may move toward something a bit more feminine just like my mom did in her later years. The therapist inside my insurance network is only one of two available near me, and I really like him, I don’t think he’s looking for anything in particular other than trying to direct me toward the requirements for surgeries, as the one year full-time requirement is a necessity that even he doesn’t agree with but knows that the requirement must be fulfilled to schedule surgeries. He’s very helpful and would even fudge the dates a little bit and stack things up rather than stagger them out, so he’s being as helpful as he can be inside the rulebook,  without being pushy about anything. This all really revolves around my insecurity and lack of overt femininity, it’s weird that I don’t really have such a need to be feminine as much as I have an absolute requirement to be female. 

Hugs,

Jae

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jody

people talk about benchmarks,rule books ect but i dont see any. There are areas of society that people want to fit in and that sets the "standard" for that. i had the discussion with my psych that ok for some its the presentation that paramount and for some its actual body makeup.here in the ukk not so long ago it was almost,for mtf,a heres the way we want u to be...my argument was i dont want to be like that and so did a lot of others.we did agree that the term living in role had to be expanded.i argued that i have breasts,castrated,tuck very convincingly,ok im a jeans and sweat shirt type but they are fem.apart from grs i am in role as i see it.hopefully gone are the days when outward presentation is the only standard.it was more important to me to find where i could fit in rather than try to fit in somewhere i couldnt no matter how hard i tried.ok i cheat a little as i see myself as mtf but butch..other people assume im ftm and at the same point..if that keeps them happy then alls well.effectivly(ok some internal bit are different but who sees them) there is a point where a mtf and a ftm can be at the same point..i used to get so frustrated that under the standards back then to fit in how they expected i was something im not.its taken me 10 years to find out where im comfortable whilst been accepted. im a live and let live and however u want to present is cool with me.

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jo jo

people like labels what is perfect female what is perfect male  no one knows society today likes to stick a label on things people are who they feel they are without a bloody big label slapped on them... if a man wears womens clothes is he a crossdresser or someone who is wearing womens clothes or visa versa people are who they feel not what labelled

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Guest Rachel Gia

Speaking as one who lives outside of the box it is more about being myself then being a "women" , air quotes intended but then I was never required to go to a gender therapist as they knew by my story who I was* and not by how I dressed. I get the thing about beard stubble while waiting for the next appointment but consider it necessary.

When it came down to it , when Dr T said 'you might consider using a girls name' and I started identifying as Rachel in AA and later elsewhere..

When she told me at the same time in order to qualify for vaginaplasty I needed to be out in most circles as someone in transition I started slowly and told people face to face when possible and used the internet selectively to tell individuals.

Believe me Jae, no one is going to think you are cis after you tell them you are trans even if you have 3 days growth and wearing Dockers and talk about the football game (yuck!) on a daily basis.

"Chill" might be your mantra for the next whie.

Mine is "No Agenda."

 

*(I am sorry but I never use "what" as I am not an it or a what )

 

 

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CyndiRae

Hi Jae, since you mentioned surgery above, from Dr Bowers web site below, she adheres to WPATH. This might give you an idea of what benchmarks are important, as you can see it's lot less about clothes and more about your social role that matters.

 

The minimum eligibility criteria for various genital surgeries equally apply to biologic males and females seeking genital surgery. They are:

  • Legal age of majority in the patient’s nation;
  • Usually 12 months of continuous hormonal therapy for those without a medical contraindication.
  • 12 months of successful continuous full time real-life experience living as the preferred gender.
  • Periods of returning to the original gender may indicate ambivalence about proceeding and generally should not be used to fulfill this criterion;
  • If required by the mental health professional, regular responsible participation in psychotherapy throughout the real-life experience at a frequency determined jointly by the patient and the mental health professional. Psychotherapy per se is not an absolute eligibility criterion for surgery;
  • Demonstrable knowledge of the cost, required lengths of hospitalizations, likely complications, and post surgical rehabilitation requirements of various surgical approaches;
  • Awareness of different competent surgeons.

The readiness criteria include:

  • Demonstrable progress in consolidating one’s gender identity;
  • Demonstrable progress in dealing with work, family, and interpersonal issues resulting in a significantly better state of mental health; this implies satisfactory control of problems such as sociopathy, substance abuse, psychosis, suicidality, for instance).

 

Best to you

 

C -

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BrandiBri

Transition to me is really more a state of mind than appearance. I do want to appear as authentic as I can, but that is secondary to who I am on the inside. I am female, maybe not on the outside, but not feminine by any means. I have not started voice training nor do I have the moves and body language commonly associated with cis gender women. I feel that my confidence and being myself has been instrumental in the positive experiences I have had. Working in a big box retail store as a cashier, I interact with hundreds of people every day and am "ma'amed" more than  "sired".

 

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jo jo
Just now, BrandiBri said:

Transition to me is really more a state of mind than appearance. I do want to appear as authentic as I can, but that is secondary to who I am on the inside. I am female, maybe not on the outside, but not feminine by any means. I have not started voice training nor do I have the moves and body language commonly associated with cis gender women. I feel that my confidence and being myself has been instrumental in the positive experiences I have had. Working in a big box retail store as a cashier, I interact with hundreds of people every day and am "ma'amed" more than  "sired".

 

never a true word said

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Jani
26 minutes ago, BrandiBri said:

I do want to appear as authentic as I can, but that is secondary to who I am on the inside.

Agreed!  Once we have this locked in our minds the rest is easier to accomplish.

 

Jani

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jae bear
1 hour ago, CyndiRae said:
  • Legal age of majority in the patient’s nation;
  • Usually 12 months of continuous hormonal therapy for those without a medical contraindication.
  • 12 months of successful continuous full time real-life experience living as the preferred gender.

 

I must admit I was confused about the legal name change part, I thought I had to wait until all the things were done before I be allowed to do so, and again it’s silly to think I couldn’t simply do what I want with my own legal name. At first I really didn’t know what my full name would be, but I knew people called me Jae and it felt just about right, simply changing the spelling was an easy task. Although over the last few months I name has definitely settled in and taken residence, it’s odd because I don’t even really think I picked it from anything in particular, it just seems to fit and came out on it’s own. Jaqueline, Or Jackie for short or Jae for even shorter and the common name I am already called by all. I have already checked with my aunt and asked if I could take my mothers maiden name which is also her last name, and she said that would be perfectly fine, and that all fits good with me since she and I already agreed it’s OK that I call her mom rather than aunt. I love my aunt so much, she fills the space in my heart that a mother would, I would much like to simply call her mom. That and what girl doesn’t need their mother? I am going to start looking into my legal name change, I have a good friend that’s already done it and he can certainly help me as well as all the good Tips here as well and I’m sure I can scour some of the old threads around here, all very useful stuff. I don’t know why Jackie seems to fit, but it does and I’m very much looking forward to the idea of changing my name, wouldn’t it be nice if my drivers license had my actual name on it?

Hugs,

Jae

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jae bear

As far as the second part in that quote, I may be contrary indicative to being prescribed estrogen, but I will manage to find a prescription even if it’s a low dose. For me I feel I need it, I will continue to work with my doctors to find something that will be manageable. The last item on the list, living full time, will start sometime soon, as I am just five days away from getting the keys to my own apartment, and living my own life. I already bought some hightop sneaker boots that are women’s only, and I absolutely love them, when I see the pink inside it reminds me every time I put them on. It may take a little fiddling around to figure out what women size I wear, but it shouldn’t take long, And I bet within a month I will have a few cute outfits that I wear all the time, even if they’re just Jeans T-shirts and cute tops, it makes it easy rolling around in androgynous mode anyway, I doubt people will figure out what’s up but some may question just exactly who is that person?

Hugs,

Jae

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CyndiRae
Just now, jae bear said:

 I don’t know why Jackie seems to fit, but it does and I’m very much looking forward to the idea of changing my name, wouldn’t it be nice if my drivers license had my actual name on it?

Hugs,

Jae

 

It sure would, and for most therapists that adhere to WPATH that starts the clock...

 

Hugs

 

C -

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jae bear

@CyndiRae  First I must apologize for so many errors in my last post, my grammar and spell checking are atrocious these days, I think I was rushing because the battery on my cell phone is about to die. And second, thank you so much for the wonderful comment, I very much want to make this change and I realize I could’ve done it whenever I wanted to, how awesome is that!  I suppose I would’ve had to wait until I knew what my name would be, but I feel like Jacqueline has stuck,  although the spelling can be modified so many ways I think the one that spellcheck comes up with is fine with me, at first I wasn’t sure if I want at the Q version or the CK version but I don’t know why the Q seems to fit, ha ha!  Or maybe I do ... At any rate I’m excited to get started with us, I think I’m going to call my friend and ask him how he did his name change and then start searching the appropriate threads here to get started.

Hugs,

Jae

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Robin Winter

As far as the 'Living full time' criteria, that pretty much just means that you've made your gender known and are maintaining it in your daily life.  There's no dress code. (apologies if this was already said, I'm having trouble concentrating right now and couldn't make it through all the comments.

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MarcieMarie12

I never had a dress code per se. My therapist actually started the clock one month before HRT started (as I was living female 100% of the time outside of work. Which was just the one area I came out too but gave management time to figure things out. I remember the first $500 I spent on my wardrobe thoug, I had a lot of fun doing that. I don't recall and dresscode requirements.

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BrandiBri

The only "dress code" I live by is to make sure that my clothes are age appropriate. No mini skirts in my closet, tee hee! Before transition I hated getting up to go to work every morning because I HAD to wear mens pants and shirts to fit the "mold", but now if I feel like putting on mens wear I have that option. Not that I do, but I can just because I can!

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KeiraC

Here in Ireland it’s a pain in the ass getting started on the path, One can go to a therapist but to make any headway one needs to be referred to a psychiatrist here is the funny thing the therapist can't refer you only your GP can so then you get referred to mental health and they assess you after many months, I remember my first session she was very matter of fact "so you are looking for HRT but you are not presenting as a girl" I think it more to do with age and the professionals are old school and expect one to be like them, I suppose I was a bit taken back as I had long hair ears were pierced and while I was not girlie girl I was not that masculine either. I had started laser hair removal and I was of the frame of mind that by 5 to 6 session in my face would be better I wanted to lose weight because I was happy I had made the decision I had changed my name and gender legally so it was not a "phase"  I wanted to start HRT as that would bring on boobs, slow down hair growth and start to change the body which I needed, I think therapists have a unrealistic view at times go full time but without the body having the femme curves, yes I agree totally with 2 years before GRS let’s face it there is no going back from that but we are all adults we have to live by our actions I knew what HRT would do to me and the idea of what it would bring made me immensely happy. And I felt that in time it would be easier present as female. But to them they expected me to be female all the time,

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      MarcieMarie12, DenimAndLace  I won't say we haven't had issues with our marriage.  But, we've been married for over 46 years.  Two kids, three granddaughters.  Neither of us want this, but as everyone here knows, it isn't a choice.  As my therapist said to me during one session, if we had a choice, would any of us choose to be this different?  I've been denying my feelings for nearly 60 years.  Always thought it was a fetish or something. i hide everything from everyone.  I never really put it together with my episodes of depression.  My wife recognized I needed to see someone for the depression years before i did. I kept insisting I was fine.  When it started really getting in the way of life I finally saw my doctor for an anti-depressant.  I suppose it helped but life happened.  Our then 6 year old granddaughter was diagnosed with cancer, a brain tumor.  Three 12 to 16 hours surgeries, chemo, proton radiation, traditional radiation, experimental treatments, 18 month of trying everything we could to save her, she told us God had told her it was time to come home.  My doctor gave me more anti-depressants.     The two in combination gave me really bad GERD, which in turn gave me laryngeal cancer.  That is essentially cured.  But I stopped all the anti-depressants.  That's when everything got worse for me.  I finally told myself i needed to find a therapist.  Still didn't tell her why except for the depression from the death of our granddaughter.  after just a few sessions, the dam broke and I told him everything.   I was not on anti-depressants, but was relieved and happy for the first time in many years.  a few more sessions and I asked about HRT and he approved it.  Instead of HRT I got a different anti-depressant from my new doctor.  At first I was emotionless, now I am back to feeling better but along with that the desire to be female has gotten stronger.  I suppose due to lower inhibitions.  I guess we just have to see where this goes.    Willow
    • Fernode
      Thanks  My therapy starts on August (officially with doctor!). And maybe I'll do HRT this year or beginning of next year! ☺️ I also got new clothes and I planned to shop new one next month with my flatmate (roommate), but I am kinda nervous a bit, to be honest.     I do not do Self-Medication, don't worry. I start therapy on August 23th. And I also have a specialized counseling at our University Clinic on July 10th.   Thank you very much, Riley with ❤️
    • stbSusan
      So today was the very first day that i wore a sports bra to work and i felt amazing wearing although it did take a bit to get used to wearing it but i was very comfortable. just wanted to share that. thanks
    • Jani
      Ah yes.  I think it's a combination of estrogen and age.  Noooo!    Jani
    • KoreyA
      His girlfriend said he looked beautiful as a female.Borrowed a dress to wear from her
    • Carolyn Marie
      That's horrible. I wonder what led to that desperate act?  At least some people tried to help.   Carolyn Marie
    • claire1000
      Springstien ,the Born to run CD always gets in a good mood in the morning  
    • Carolyn Marie
      That's great to hear, Korey.  I hope he finds continued support and happiness.   Carolyn Marie
    • DenimAndLace
      The best advice I can give couples in transition is what I learned going through transition myself.  Each person will need to learn to SAY very hard things to each other and also, learn to HEAR very hard things from each other.  Everyone thinks they're good at doing that but I'm talking about a much deeper level that I've rarely seen in relationships that haven't gone through something apocalyptic.  Tell each other the most raw and naked feelings you are having ALL THE TIME - don't stockpile emotions or things you're thinking about.  Hear each other's pain.  Help each other process it without being defensive.  In addition to having a gender therapist, we worked with a marriage counselor who facilitated our so-called hard discussions until we learned the skill and could do it on our own.  We started with nearly impossible odds coming from conservative and religious territory with only a moderate marriage.  I was positive she was going to leave me when I told her but she stayed by me hard as it was for her.  We went slow TOGETHER and slowly got proficient at communicating until there was nothing we couldn't talk through.  Today we're through the fog and doing better than ever.  It CAN happen but it takes a LOT of hard work.  Others have not been so fortunate as we have so don't be discouraged if your relationship doesn't survive.  What I'm offering is only advice, not a guarantee.  Best of luck to all who read this.
    • BrandiBri
      Happy Birthday Dimitri K!🎂 Have a great day!   Hugs, Brandi
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