Non binary - Are we invisible ?

[Martyn]

It’s so hard to try and explain how I have become to my wife, the concept of non binary seems so difficult to describe how you feel inside when compared to cis people, my wife just doesn’t get it, she says she’s beginning to understand but I can tell she’s no idea what planet I’m now on so to speak.

The more I research non binary it seems in such a minority compared to trans type genders, all my wife sees is trans and cis people, trying to describe the people in the middle of these seems an impossible task, it’s as if we are invisible in terms of most people’s perception of gender types . I’ve come to realise I’m non binary only during the past few months during gender counselling, at first it was exciting and such a relief to realise and start to understand myself, I’ve been buying much more floral shirts where as before I was basically vanilla man, I’ve always resisted change but this time I was sooo ready for it, I’ve been in the women’s clothes shops and bought a couple of items, not overly feminine but just enough, it feels wonderful wearing these. Life is still very confusing, and so many thoughts race around my head, I so badly want to get across to my wife that nothing has changed about the way I feel towards her, I still love and want her just as I have always done. I’m feeling the need to join a local group if I can find one, one that’s dedicated to non binary would be best, hopefully it might help me find a pathway forward.

[Robin]

Hi Martyn,

I have only recently begun to come to terms with my gender identity and, as I said in my introductory post, I too feel invisible.  There is no easy way to prove that you really do identify as you say.  I feel female, but I do not look or sound like a "normal" woman. 

At the present time, I am trying to think of being transgender as an identity in it's own right, and not rushing into doing anything just because I feel the need to conform to a stereotypical image.

 

Robin.

[Martyn]

Hi Robin

Thank you for your thoughts, personally I’ve not always had these feelings. In hindsight it all started when I admitted I hate body hair just over two years ago, I’ve always hated it but only since then have I done anything about it, now that I’m a fair way down the road of reducing / removing it with laser treatment I feel much more like ‘me’ , just over six months ago I started anti-adrogeon meds which has helped things along too, and since then I’ve realised I like many feminine things more so than masculine, I’m happy being a male but do like certain feminine clothing, along with preferring the rom coms type films rather than the traditional male type films.

Would you say you prefer the more masculine things in life as I do the feminine things? 

I’m considering taking low dose of oestrogen to help reduce the hot flashes that have become a big problem, but as I don’t want to transition and feel very strongly that I’m non binary and I’m worried about my chest developing further than it has recently, other than that I’d be ok with the other side effects.

The more I try and explain non binary especially to my wife the more i feel I’m being true to myself, it’s a shame it’s such a difficult thing to describe and get your feelings understood. Patience is the key to most things in life I guess.

[Robin]

Hi Martyn,

As many transgender people say, I have always felt different from other people, but it is only very recently that I have begun to understand why, and to put a name to it.  I am fifty years old, so I can look back a reasonable amount of time to analyse myself.  Now that I realise that I am transgender, lots of things make sense, and I am sure that it is real.

Like you, I always prefer romantic type films and when my female friends are talking about clothes, I am always interested to see what they have bought or made, and wishing that I could wear something similar.

On the other hand, I have obvious been brought up as a male and had to blend in to the acceptable image.  I have a collection of classic cars, which is traditionally seen as a male hobby, although there are actually plenty of women that own classic cars, so it is not really a contradiction.

Hopefully, the more people talk about these issues, and society realises that there are lots of people with similar feelings, the more it will be believed and accepted.

 

Robin.

[Martyn]

Hi Robin, I too am of a similar age (47 next week) if I’m honest tho I’ve not felt different all my life as most have it seems, only since recently, I don’t consider myself transgender, but more non binary (as the name of the thread suggests) I have tho always preferred the more feminine things such as music types and films that I mentioned before, it seems the body hair removal process has brought it all into the open now, so the process of dealing with theses thoughts and feelings are at an early stage. Like you suggest only by talking openly about it will be believed and accepted by society in the long term, I just wish we could speed that process up a bit.

[Jani]

18 hours ago, Martyn said:

The more I research non binary it seems in such a minority compared to trans type genders,

It seems every minority has a sub-minority!  The concept of transgender is hard enough for most cis-gender people, NB is in a different planet as you suggest!   Even I have a hard time grasping the concept some times.  

 

18 hours ago, Martyn said:

Life is still very confusing, and so many thoughts race around my head, I so badly want to get across to my wife that nothing has changed about the way I feel towards her, I still love and want her just as I have always done.

It seems like the confusion is clearing for you!  Talk to your wife and demonstrate that you are the same person to her, just a happier version.   You can wear brighter colors and patterns without shopping in the women's section.   They may be a bit harder to find in men's but they are there, and they may fit better.  I was always a bright color person before transition.  Variety is the spice of life.  Tell your wife you're not giving anything up, but you are adding to your life.  

 

Cheers, Jani

[tracy_j]

23 hours ago, Robin said:

 

  I have a collection of classic cars, which is traditionally seen as a male hobby, although there are actually plenty of women that own classic cars, so it is not really a contradiction.

 

Robin.

 

Hopefully you will take this the right way, but is one of them a Reliant Robin? lol. Perhaps an English joke, but there was always a thing about Reliant's.

 

Sorry I have had a glass or two for Sunday lunch.

 

Seriously though, I find non binary is difficult. To be totally correct I may well be non-binary but in life I find I have to be female, although I am not unhappy with that.

 

Tracy

[Robin]

Hi Tracy,

 

Sadly, I have not got a Reliant Robin, but I have got a Reliant Supervan, as made famous by Delboy Trotter.

As far as non-binary is concerned, it is difficult to determine where the boundaries of each particular identity lie.  It may be that everyone is non-binary to a greater or lesser extent.

 

Robin.

[Charlize]

Robin i am right with you on that.  I think we are all a mixture.  I am much happier as female but am a pretty butch gal at times.

 

I've got a pretty 52 Chevy flatbed truck that i love.

 

Hugs,

 

Charlize

[Robin]

Hi Charlize,

 

Your truck looks lovely.  My brother had a '51 Chevy truck a few years ago, and he sold it to a friend, who is now in the process of completely restoring it. 

 

A friend of mine mentioned a trans woman who is a member of a car club and I recently saw another trans woman at a motorcycle show, so it is a perfectly "acceptable" hobby.

 

Here is a picture of my '57 Chevy 210 Sedan.

 

Robin.

[Martyn]

On 9/9/2018 at 5:00 AM, Jani said:

It seems like the confusion is clearing for you!  

 

 You can wear brighter colors and patterns without shopping in the women's section.   They may be a bit harder to find in men's but they are there, and they may fit better. 

 

Cheers, Jani

Hi Jani, yes that seems like it’s true, I’ve been re-reading this thread I started and it seems my understanding is becoming clearer as to how I’ve changed and how I’ve now become (non binary).

I’ve been creating a new wardrobe of clothes, mainly floral men’s shirts, but I have to be honest I still prefer the ones available in women’s ranges.  I have though set strict boundaries about what I feel comfortable wearing:-

 

They must be manufactured in the same way as men’s shirts.

They must not have frills or look overly feminine.

They must not have any feminine type fastenings on both the front or back.

 

The restrictions I have put in place do have the effect of drastically reducing the selections available to me but these are where I feel comfortable, I’ve explained this to my wife to demonstrate that I don’t wish to dress as a female but I do enjoy wearing certain. women’s tops.

The gender therapist that I see made the comment that it appears very important to me that the clothes come from women’s ranges. Wearing feminine tops makes me feel comfortable, relaxed and gives me that cozy feeling that I’ve become to love.

Martyn :0) 

[Kirsten]

Non binary is a difficult thing to explain. Especially to someone that doesn’t have those feelings themselves. We all understand to some extent, I think, but not long ago I had never even heard of non binary. 

I have been trying to figure out what “group” I fit into for a while now. And I always end up just forgetting about it all together. 

I consider myself mtf transgender. My wife considers me some form of non binary/Demi boy/girl though. Because although I am 100% positive on needing to be completely female in looks clothes and body, I don’t really do all that much feminine stuff. Sure I do my makeup and paint my nails and love shopping and all of that but that’s where it ends for me. The rest of me is very “masculine”. I’m loud and boisterous. I am an extremely competitive sports orientated girl as well. I watch football baseball basketball and any other sport I can over anything else. I prefer riding quads snowmobiles and dirt bikes to going to wine tastings or brunch. I drive a big beefy looking off-road Chevy 1500 because it’s awesome. And I still scream and yell and high five strangers at the redsox games or a local sports bar when the teams doing great!! 

So where does that leave me? I don’t really know. But I know I’m happy. So how I make sense of it to myself and others is that people are all on the same spectrum. On one side you have the Uber alpha males. On the other is the caring maternal female. There is every single type of man and woman on that spectrum. From a shy and timid male who is transgender and gay to the Uber alpha female on the other side. We are all just a different mix of the same stuff.

Sure people do tend to be more “normal” on that scale meaning most men are more on the Uber alpha male end and are also straight and happy in their gender and vice versa for female. But every possible mix is also in there. Trans people are a “type” of that mix that more people seem to fit into. Nonbinary to me is just a slightly different mix. 

All that matters is that you’re happy with you. Maybe you don’t need a label. After all it’s just a label and it doesn’t change who or what you are at all. I don’t know if that helps at all, but I hope so. 

Kirsten 

[Jani]

Martyn, setting restrictions is not a bad thing if it helps you meet your goals.  Aside from patterns, you can look for shirts in linen or rayon.  I had quite a few linen male clothes as I loved the look and feel of them.  Rayon is great for warmer weather wear too.  

 

Jani

[Martyn]

Hi Kirsten, thank you for your many thoughts. From my point of view it has been very important to work out fairly precisely what label or gender type I fall under, as I was feeling very confused and without identity due to me being happy and content being male and not wishing to transition but being somewhere in the middle. Non binary for me sits comfortably, however, trying to allow my wife to understand these feelings is much harder than I thought. It’s  lot for her to take in and a learning curve for us both too.

[Martyn]

Hi Jani, yes I must admit the feeling of silky smooth fabrics against my skin is most appealing, I ordered one shirt on line, it was a viscous type fabric, i soo love wearing it :0)

[tracy_j]

11 hours ago, Martyn said:

Hi Kirsten, thank you for your many thoughts. From my point of view it has been very important to work out fairly precisely what label or gender type I fall under, as I was feeling very confused and without identity due to me being happy and content being male and not wishing to transition but being somewhere in the middle. Non binary for me sits comfortably, however, trying to allow my wife to understand these feelings is much harder than I thought. It’s  lot for her to take in and a learning curve for us both too.

 

I would pull my hair out if I were so inclined as I have found mine does not change her point of view whatever. We live reasonably well together, but, even though for example, I have been wearing mid thigh / knee length skirts with femine tops an undies all summer long, which she accepts well now, and generally live a pretty much female lifestyle with more new female friends than male, she still sees me as completely male. Admittedly I am not transisitioning in the way of hormones and surgery, or even officially at the moment, but it does make it strange at times. Being so close means that 'pronouns' as such seldom come up so it does not grate too much.

 

Tracy

[Martyn]

10 hours ago, tracy_j said:

Admittedly I am not transisitioning in the way of hormones and surgery,

 

Tracy

Hi Tracy, thank you for the insights of the workings of your home life, it’s much appreciated. My wish is to only wear feminine tops mixed with my own male clothes, I’ve been on anti-androegeon meds for just over six months and are now considering taking oestrogen mainly to counter act the hot flashes at night, my issue tho is I don’t want any further breast deveoplment as I don’t see myself as female but non binary instead. I would like the other side effects such as more feminine skin tho etc.... I think because I’m in the middle of the genders so to speak it makes it very difficult for others to understand my mindset, as non binary appears not a commonly talked about topic in the wider community.

[tracy_j]

I think non binary is not well understood anywhere. It goes against how most everyone has been taught from an early age. In my opinion the gender spectrum should be shown as such then the meaning of non binary would be more obvious. I do occasionally mention things to people, but more in passing so things don't get deep. It's really keeping a balance between being open, but not forcing things down people's throats. The balance can be tricky at times. Non binary or androgyne tends to get noticed far more than fully female (at least for me). This perhaps emphasises my first point.

 

I just need to say, although we may  have mentioned before, but I hope you are taking your meds under support of a doctor. If not I would suggest you get regular checks as hormones can be risky.

 

Tracy

[WeaselSoup]

I didn't being non-binary it for a while and I really think I am NB. I was well aware of trans people because of LGBT activism but I never considered myself part of the group because I didn't think it included people who were not going to transition. I'm still not sure I'd be accepted everywhere but I'm going to visit the local university LGBT group and see how that goes.

 

It would be nice if there was some more visibility to NB people because I am sure that there are other people out there that feel that something's off but don't know anyone else who feels the same.

 

On the home front, my husband knew about my gender issues from quite early on in our relationship because I talked about how I thought I would grow up to be a boy. We didn't have a name for it at the time and nothing has changed between us now that I think I would call myself NB. I am lucky that I have found some people that will accept all of my "weird" traits.

[Martyn]

On 9/12/2018 at 9:27 AM, tracy_j said:

I think non binary is not well understood anywhere. It goes against how most everyone has been taught from an early age. In my opinion the gender spectrum should be shown as such then the meaning of non binary would be more obvious. 

 

I just need to say, although we may  have mentioned before, but I hope you are taking your meds under support of a doctor. If not I would suggest you get regular checks as hormones can be risky.

 

Tracy

Hi Tracy

Yes, even my own gp is not that familiar with the term which surprises me - I had been referred to see an endocrinologyst privately, he has been prescribing the medication along with monitoring my progress.

Martyn 

[Martyn]

On 9/12/2018 at 10:45 AM, WeaselSoup said:

 NB. I am lucky that I have found some people that will accept all of my "weird" traits.

Hi WeaselSoup

I hope my wife will be able to accept my “weird” traits too, it’s been a difficult and testing time on us both lately.

Martyn