Jump to content
  • Welcome to the TransPulse Forums!

    We offer a safe, inclusive community for transgender and gender non-conforming folks, as well as their loved ones, to find support and information.  Join today!

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Martyn

Non binary - Are we invisible ?

Recommended Posts

Martyn

It’s so hard to try and explain how I have become to my wife, the concept of non binary seems so difficult to describe how you feel inside when compared to cis people, my wife just doesn’t get it, she says she’s beginning to understand but I can tell she’s no idea what planet I’m now on so to speak.

The more I research non binary it seems in such a minority compared to trans type genders, all my wife sees is trans and cis people, trying to describe the people in the middle of these seems an impossible task, it’s as if we are invisible in terms of most people’s perception of gender types . I’ve come to realise I’m non binary only during the past few months during gender counselling, at first it was exciting and such a relief to realise and start to understand myself, I’ve been buying much more floral shirts where as before I was basically vanilla man, I’ve always resisted change but this time I was sooo ready for it, I’ve been in the women’s clothes shops and bought a couple of items, not overly feminine but just enough, it feels wonderful wearing these. Life is still very confusing, and so many thoughts race around my head, I so badly want to get across to my wife that nothing has changed about the way I feel towards her, I still love and want her just as I have always done. I’m feeling the need to join a local group if I can find one, one that’s dedicated to non binary would be best, hopefully it might help me find a pathway forward.

Share this post


Link to post
Robin

Hi Martyn,

I have only recently begun to come to terms with my gender identity and, as I said in my introductory post, I too feel invisible.  There is no easy way to prove that you really do identify as you say.  I feel female, but I do not look or sound like a "normal" woman. 

At the present time, I am trying to think of being transgender as an identity in it's own right, and not rushing into doing anything just because I feel the need to conform to a stereotypical image.

 

Robin.

Share this post


Link to post
Martyn

Hi Robin

Thank you for your thoughts, personally I’ve not always had these feelings. In hindsight it all started when I admitted I hate body hair just over two years ago, I’ve always hated it but only since then have I done anything about it, now that I’m a fair way down the road of reducing / removing it with laser treatment I feel much more like ‘me’ , just over six months ago I started anti-adrogeon meds which has helped things along too, and since then I’ve realised I like many feminine things more so than masculine, I’m happy being a male but do like certain feminine clothing, along with preferring the rom coms type films rather than the traditional male type films.

Would you say you prefer the more masculine things in life as I do the feminine things? 

I’m considering taking low dose of oestrogen to help reduce the hot flashes that have become a big problem, but as I don’t want to transition and feel very strongly that I’m non binary and I’m worried about my chest developing further than it has recently, other than that I’d be ok with the other side effects.

The more I try and explain non binary especially to my wife the more i feel I’m being true to myself, it’s a shame it’s such a difficult thing to describe and get your feelings understood. Patience is the key to most things in life I guess.

Share this post


Link to post
Robin

Hi Martyn,

As many transgender people say, I have always felt different from other people, but it is only very recently that I have begun to understand why, and to put a name to it.  I am fifty years old, so I can look back a reasonable amount of time to analyse myself.  Now that I realise that I am transgender, lots of things make sense, and I am sure that it is real.

Like you, I always prefer romantic type films and when my female friends are talking about clothes, I am always interested to see what they have bought or made, and wishing that I could wear something similar.

On the other hand, I have obvious been brought up as a male and had to blend in to the acceptable image.  I have a collection of classic cars, which is traditionally seen as a male hobby, although there are actually plenty of women that own classic cars, so it is not really a contradiction.

Hopefully, the more people talk about these issues, and society realises that there are lots of people with similar feelings, the more it will be believed and accepted.

 

Robin.

Share this post


Link to post
Martyn

Hi Robin, I too am of a similar age (47 next week) if I’m honest tho I’ve not felt different all my life as most have it seems, only since recently, I don’t consider myself transgender, but more non binary (as the name of the thread suggests) I have tho always preferred the more feminine things such as music types and films that I mentioned before, it seems the body hair removal process has brought it all into the open now, so the process of dealing with theses thoughts and feelings are at an early stage. Like you suggest only by talking openly about it will be believed and accepted by society in the long term, I just wish we could speed that process up a bit.

Share this post


Link to post
Jani
18 hours ago, Martyn said:

The more I research non binary it seems in such a minority compared to trans type genders,

It seems every minority has a sub-minority!  The concept of transgender is hard enough for most cis-gender people, NB is in a different planet as you suggest!   Even I have a hard time grasping the concept some times.  

 

18 hours ago, Martyn said:

Life is still very confusing, and so many thoughts race around my head, I so badly want to get across to my wife that nothing has changed about the way I feel towards her, I still love and want her just as I have always done.

It seems like the confusion is clearing for you!  Talk to your wife and demonstrate that you are the same person to her, just a happier version.   You can wear brighter colors and patterns without shopping in the women's section.   They may be a bit harder to find in men's but they are there, and they may fit better.  I was always a bright color person before transition.  Variety is the spice of life.  Tell your wife you're not giving anything up, but you are adding to your life.  

 

Cheers, Jani

Share this post


Link to post
tracy_j
23 hours ago, Robin said:

 

  I have a collection of classic cars, which is traditionally seen as a male hobby, although there are actually plenty of women that own classic cars, so it is not really a contradiction.

 

Robin.

 

Hopefully you will take this the right way, but is one of them a Reliant Robin? lol. Perhaps an English joke, but there was always a thing about Reliant's.

 

Sorry I have had a glass or two for Sunday lunch.

 

Seriously though, I find non binary is difficult. To be totally correct I may well be non-binary but in life I find I have to be female, although I am not unhappy with that.

 

Tracy

Share this post


Link to post
Robin

Hi Tracy,

 

Sadly, I have not got a Reliant Robin, but I have got a Reliant Supervan, as made famous by Delboy Trotter.

As far as non-binary is concerned, it is difficult to determine where the boundaries of each particular identity lie.  It may be that everyone is non-binary to a greater or lesser extent.

 

Robin.

Share this post


Link to post
Charlize

Robin i am right with you on that.  I think we are all a mixture.  I am much happier as female but am a pretty butch gal at times.

 

I've got a pretty 52 Chevy flatbed truck that i love.

 

Hugs,

 

Charlize

love of truck 2 - 1.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Robin

Hi Charlize,

 

Your truck looks lovely.  My brother had a '51 Chevy truck a few years ago, and he sold it to a friend, who is now in the process of completely restoring it. 

 

A friend of mine mentioned a trans woman who is a member of a car club and I recently saw another trans woman at a motorcycle show, so it is a perfectly "acceptable" hobby.

 

Here is a picture of my '57 Chevy 210 Sedan.

DSCF0322.thumb.JPG.c37f2c56edae7173e5b606777461c8bf.JPG

 

Robin.

Share this post


Link to post
Martyn
On 9/9/2018 at 5:00 AM, Jani said:

It seems like the confusion is clearing for you!  

 

 You can wear brighter colors and patterns without shopping in the women's section.   They may be a bit harder to find in men's but they are there, and they may fit better. 

 

Cheers, Jani

Hi Jani, yes that seems like it’s true, I’ve been re-reading this thread I started and it seems my understanding is becoming clearer as to how I’ve changed and how I’ve now become (non binary).

I’ve been creating a new wardrobe of clothes, mainly floral men’s shirts, but I have to be honest I still prefer the ones available in women’s ranges.  I have though set strict boundaries about what I feel comfortable wearing:-

 

They must be manufactured in the same way as men’s shirts.

They must not have frills or look overly feminine.

They must not have any feminine type fastenings on both the front or back.

 

The restrictions I have put in place do have the effect of drastically reducing the selections available to me but these are where I feel comfortable, I’ve explained this to my wife to demonstrate that I don’t wish to dress as a female but I do enjoy wearing certain. women’s tops.

The gender therapist that I see made the comment that it appears very important to me that the clothes come from women’s ranges. Wearing feminine tops makes me feel comfortable, relaxed and gives me that cozy feeling that I’ve become to love.

Martyn :0) 

Share this post


Link to post
Kirsten

Non binary is a difficult thing to explain. Especially to someone that doesn’t have those feelings themselves. We all understand to some extent, I think, but not long ago I had never even heard of non binary. 

I have been trying to figure out what “group” I fit into for a while now. And I always end up just forgetting about it all together. 

I consider myself mtf transgender. My wife considers me some form of non binary/Demi boy/girl though. Because although I am 100% positive on needing to be completely female in looks clothes and body, I don’t really do all that much feminine stuff. Sure I do my makeup and paint my nails and love shopping and all of that but that’s where it ends for me. The rest of me is very “masculine”. I’m loud and boisterous. I am an extremely competitive sports orientated girl as well. I watch football baseball basketball and any other sport I can over anything else. I prefer riding quads snowmobiles and dirt bikes to going to wine tastings or brunch. I drive a big beefy looking off-road Chevy 1500 because it’s awesome. And I still scream and yell and high five strangers at the redsox games or a local sports bar when the teams doing great!! 

So where does that leave me? I don’t really know. But I know I’m happy. So how I make sense of it to myself and others is that people are all on the same spectrum. On one side you have the Uber alpha males. On the other is the caring maternal female. There is every single type of man and woman on that spectrum. From a shy and timid male who is transgender and gay to the Uber alpha female on the other side. We are all just a different mix of the same stuff.

Sure people do tend to be more “normal” on that scale meaning most men are more on the Uber alpha male end and are also straight and happy in their gender and vice versa for female. But every possible mix is also in there. Trans people are a “type” of that mix that more people seem to fit into. Nonbinary to me is just a slightly different mix. 

All that matters is that you’re happy with you. Maybe you don’t need a label. After all it’s just a label and it doesn’t change who or what you are at all. I don’t know if that helps at all, but I hope so. 

Kirsten 

Share this post


Link to post
Jani

Martyn, setting restrictions is not a bad thing if it helps you meet your goals.  Aside from patterns, you can look for shirts in linen or rayon.  I had quite a few linen male clothes as I loved the look and feel of them.  Rayon is great for warmer weather wear too.  

 

Jani

Share this post


Link to post
Martyn

Hi Kirsten, thank you for your many thoughts. From my point of view it has been very important to work out fairly precisely what label or gender type I fall under, as I was feeling very confused and without identity due to me being happy and content being male and not wishing to transition but being somewhere in the middle. Non binary for me sits comfortably, however, trying to allow my wife to understand these feelings is much harder than I thought. It’s  lot for her to take in and a learning curve for us both too.

Share this post


Link to post
Martyn

Hi Jani, yes I must admit the feeling of silky smooth fabrics against my skin is most appealing, I ordered one shirt on line, it was a viscous type fabric, i soo love wearing it :0)

Share this post


Link to post
tracy_j
11 hours ago, Martyn said:

Hi Kirsten, thank you for your many thoughts. From my point of view it has been very important to work out fairly precisely what label or gender type I fall under, as I was feeling very confused and without identity due to me being happy and content being male and not wishing to transition but being somewhere in the middle. Non binary for me sits comfortably, however, trying to allow my wife to understand these feelings is much harder than I thought. It’s  lot for her to take in and a learning curve for us both too.

 

I would pull my hair out if I were so inclined as I have found mine does not change her point of view whatever. We live reasonably well together, but, even though for example, I have been wearing mid thigh / knee length skirts with femine tops an undies all summer long, which she accepts well now, and generally live a pretty much female lifestyle with more new female friends than male, she still sees me as completely male. Admittedly I am not transisitioning in the way of hormones and surgery, or even officially at the moment, but it does make it strange at times. Being so close means that 'pronouns' as such seldom come up so it does not grate too much.

 

Tracy

Share this post


Link to post
Martyn
10 hours ago, tracy_j said:

Admittedly I am not transisitioning in the way of hormones and surgery,

 

Tracy

Hi Tracy, thank you for the insights of the workings of your home life, it’s much appreciated. My wish is to only wear feminine tops mixed with my own male clothes, I’ve been on anti-androegeon meds for just over six months and are now considering taking oestrogen mainly to counter act the hot flashes at night, my issue tho is I don’t want any further breast deveoplment as I don’t see myself as female but non binary instead. I would like the other side effects such as more feminine skin tho etc.... I think because I’m in the middle of the genders so to speak it makes it very difficult for others to understand my mindset, as non binary appears not a commonly talked about topic in the wider community.

Share this post


Link to post
tracy_j

I think non binary is not well understood anywhere. It goes against how most everyone has been taught from an early age. In my opinion the gender spectrum should be shown as such then the meaning of non binary would be more obvious. I do occasionally mention things to people, but more in passing so things don't get deep. It's really keeping a balance between being open, but not forcing things down people's throats. The balance can be tricky at times. Non binary or androgyne tends to get noticed far more than fully female (at least for me). This perhaps emphasises my first point.

 

I just need to say, although we may  have mentioned before, but I hope you are taking your meds under support of a doctor. If not I would suggest you get regular checks as hormones can be risky.

 

Tracy

Share this post


Link to post
WeaselSoup

I didn't being non-binary it for a while and I really think I am NB. I was well aware of trans people because of LGBT activism but I never considered myself part of the group because I didn't think it included people who were not going to transition. I'm still not sure I'd be accepted everywhere but I'm going to visit the local university LGBT group and see how that goes.

 

It would be nice if there was some more visibility to NB people because I am sure that there are other people out there that feel that something's off but don't know anyone else who feels the same.

 

On the home front, my husband knew about my gender issues from quite early on in our relationship because I talked about how I thought I would grow up to be a boy. We didn't have a name for it at the time and nothing has changed between us now that I think I would call myself NB. I am lucky that I have found some people that will accept all of my "weird" traits.

Share this post


Link to post
Martyn
On 9/12/2018 at 9:27 AM, tracy_j said:

I think non binary is not well understood anywhere. It goes against how most everyone has been taught from an early age. In my opinion the gender spectrum should be shown as such then the meaning of non binary would be more obvious. 

 

I just need to say, although we may  have mentioned before, but I hope you are taking your meds under support of a doctor. If not I would suggest you get regular checks as hormones can be risky.

 

Tracy

Hi Tracy

Yes, even my own gp is not that familiar with the term which surprises me - I had been referred to see an endocrinologyst privately, he has been prescribing the medication along with monitoring my progress.

Martyn 

Share this post


Link to post
Martyn
On 9/12/2018 at 10:45 AM, WeaselSoup said:

 NB. I am lucky that I have found some people that will accept all of my "weird" traits.

Hi WeaselSoup

I hope my wife will be able to accept my “weird” traits too, it’s been a difficult and testing time on us both lately.

Martyn

Share this post


Link to post

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Who's Online   5 Members, 0 Anonymous, 87 Guests (See full list)

    • Elyssia
    • Jackie C.
    • jae bear
    • Susan R
    • Belle
  • Topics With Zero Replies

  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      69,790
    • Total Posts
      630,798
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      6,137
    • Most Online
      8,356

    Staceythesissy
    Newest Member
    Staceythesissy
    Joined
  • Today's Birthdays

    1. RobinCarly
      RobinCarly
    2. sherlockian2342
      sherlockian2342
      (44 years old)
  • Posts

    • jae bear
      Congratulations! Seriously don’t worry about this, it’s a blip in your life and it’s just fine. You will be there in the hospital with excellently managed care, plenty of pain meds and all the help and support you could ever need. After a month you’ll  feel a whole lot better, by the second month it’s a no big deal situation. One of my really good friends at group came in at a month and a half and said she felt just fine, sat there for over two hours with no complaints! keeping you in my prayers, everythingis going to be fine, Jackie
    • Jackie C.
      Thanks for that sweetie. I've got bottom surgery on Tuesday and I'm a little nervous about recovery... and everything else.   Hugs!
    • jae bear
      Thank you girls! I know it sounds like a lot of surgery but really it’s no big deal, if you ever thought about having surgery at all don’t be scared of it, it is a big nothing. It’s more annoying finding time off of work and putting room in your life to do it then anything else. Really doesn’t hurt as much as you might think, it’s only temporary, after the first week you’re kind of feeling fine and after a month it’s like nothing happened. sending you both a great hug, Jackie rabbit
    • jae bear
      The title is a bit misleading, I know the answer but I’m curious what you have to say as well. I have now gone through breast augmentation, facial feminization surgery, and vocal feminization surgery, twice! My divorce is final now, got all the judgment paperwork in the mail early this month, and oddly I still don’t feel a big change has happened even though I know legally it’s all good and finished. I still wish my ex was nicer to me, cared more about me or in someway had sympathy for me, but I doubt that’s in the cards and I am trying to find a way to put it behind me. For the time being it seems my family wants nothing to do with me but that might change someday, i’ll just keep waiting and love the people I have now, my friends and their families who have taken me in. I’ve also made family were I needed it myself, I reverse adopted a very nice trans man who finds me annoying and much like a teenager, but loves me nonetheless just as you would your own child, who could ask for more? bottom surgery is coming up in about six months, somewhere in the middle of July, just trying to get prepared for that one is mostly work related. And of course there are other surgeries that I’d love to have further down the road just for myself, the bottom half facelift would mean the world to me. all that being said I still feel relatively the same, still putting out the same fires and trying to live my life. I’ve been full-time over a year now and can’t possibly imagine anything but being a woman, the surgeries have given me such amazing confidence that I’m surprised how blessed I have been to be able to achieve those things... I am never misgendered anymore, it would be unthinkable now, and I quite enjoy being able to talk with people who once knew me but now see me as a complete stranger, sometimes we even talk about “him“ and I get to hear how they really thought about me. Somehow I kind of wish I had become happier, I thought all along that somehow magic happiness would happen once these things fell into place, but what I’m finding is I’m still me, I’m still relatively the same person, but I do get to enjoy some new found confidence out in the world and feel very secure in being able to be the woman I always knew myself to be.   I’m curious what you think about all of this, tell me your thoughts...   Big hugs, Jackie rabbit
    • Ellora
      Hi!   If you dont have any stores that you can go to, Amazon, as mentioned is a great place to buy clothes. Amazon Lockers can help you keep delivers secret. Amazon also has an Amazon Fashion feature so you can try on clothes and return the ones you dont like.    If you want to be on the super down low, try buying clothes that can double as other clothes. I used to buy A- shirt tank tops (they are the clingy type.) I would wear them as skirts, and depending on the size i bought, can be worn like mini skirts, all thew way to a maxi dress. I would also wear two, one as a top and one like a skirt. You can get really creative.     
    • Susan R
      Fantastic results @jae bear You look amazing.   Warm Regards, Susan R🌷
    • Jackie C.
      While that's way more surgery than I was contemplating, I can't argue with the results. You look fantastic!   Hugs!
    • jae bear
      Just as the title says, the first surgery I had was  breast augmentation, the second surgery I had was facial feminization surgery, and the most recent was vocal feminization surgery. It’s been quite a long road and I still have bottom surgery coming up in six months in the middle of July, but all things considered I oddly feel just about the same as I always have! Still feeling slightly dysphoric but probably less than I used to, still a jumble of messes that I put out one problem at a time, and I’m still planning the next phase, the next surgery, the next change, and hoping someday all of those things will be done and I can just live. I just got off the phone with surgery scheduling to get a follow up appointment with my breast augmentation surgeon, as my under the muscle, 450 mL silicone gel implants seem to be a bit asymmetric, the left one seems a bit high and completely under the muscle, and the right one seems to have slipped halfway under the edge of the muscle and is quite a bit low, flexing my pectoral muscles reveals a very wildly asymmetric shape. Hopefully a revision of some sort will fix all of this. I’m not scared Of revisions in the slightest, they are part and parcel to most surgeries and I am well aware of it. My vocal feminization  surgery Did not go as planned the first time, I sneezed and popped the stitch it was back in surgery for the revision one week later. Now there is a granuloma over the stitch that might need to be removed and a gap in my vocal cords that will most likely resolve itself in a few months, but if it doesn’t I can live with the slightly hoarse sounding voice I have for the rest of my life. facial feminization surgery went well, I’m pleased with the results but now of course I want a bottom half face lift, cheek augmentation and slight lip augmentation, as if a lip lift, brow shave, brow lift and hairline lowering weren’t enough to make me feel pretty!  The results have been so dramatic that people simply don’t recognize it at all, I can carry on conversations with people who know me well, friends or family members, and they have no clue they’re talking to me, I actually kind of like it that way. Big hugs to everyone, Jackie rabbit
    • LlanMatt
      Yeah I have like 4 different ones, bought a new one every 6 months ish. Could be time to buy new ones maybe. Thank you
    • Markjvp
      anyone have any more tips?
    • VickySGV
      Most of the name brands go from affordable to way too expensive.  I have had good luck and low enough cost from Louis Fere, John Renau, and Henri Margu wigs.  Revlon is good as well. 
    • Susan R
      “Inexpensive” is relative but I’ve bought Paul’s Young wigs in the $60-$100 range that were OK and looked fairly real on me.  Before you buy online though, it’s a good idea to at least try your local wig shop...a “mom and pop” type shop, if you can.  You can find some deals in these places on occasion.  Be sure to stop in very early in the morning at the wig shop when they are less likely to be busy.  Monday’s and Tuesday’s preferably so you can get some undivided attention.  I did this so many times and it was so helpful to be able to not feel hurried.  I would try on a dozen or so different types and style plus you can find your correct size.  I remember being pleasantly surprised and bought a wig style that I wasn’t planning on originally. After trying it on a few times decided to buy.  You”ll pay $80 and up depending on length, style, construction and quality but it’s worth it.   IMHO, it’s better to have one really good wig that fits and looks good than 3 that fit “ok”, look “ok” but only last a few months or so.   Susan R🌷
    • Susan R
      Welcome to our community, Kendal.  Congrats also on you upcoming surgery.   What I wasn’t clear about in your post was whether or not your spouse referred to you as simply her “spouse”.  Will she convey any importance of relationship or some marital connection similar way as “partner, wife, or husband” would?  It is possible she may not yet be comfortable conveying your relationship to others at any level.   Right after going full time, I knew my wife was a bit hestitant the first few times as she introduced me to someone as her spouse.  She got over it fast.  I realize it was a huge paradigm shift for her. My wife refers to me as “spouse” or “wife” and it seems to be pretty effortless for her now.  She knows it outs us immediately as lesbian and/or me as trans.  We are fine with both and both are accurate, so why not?  On very rare occasions when referring to a past event or memory, my wife may use my dead name only for clarification.  I’ve never corrected her when she does this because it was, after all, my name at that time.  In public she refers to me as just Susan and other times she will add the connection but saying “my spouse, Susan”.   Susan R🌷
    • ShawnaLeigh
      I have been looking on amazon "Wigs for women" in the search bar.  There are a ton that are around $20 and good enough to pass as real.   I am going this route to play around with one and learn.  I eventually plan to go to my local wig shop and go through the whole process but this shop is a higher end and appointment only.  I want to have some knowledge before going.  LOL
    • Markjvp
      yea if i can im going to go cheap if im buying any clothes
  • Upcoming Events

×
×
  • Create New...