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Martyn

Am I alone in being this way ?

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jae bear
On 11/12/2018 at 2:54 PM, Martyn said:

my wife said yesterday that she felt she’s lost me to my non binary female

 

 Our spouses often have fears and worries that are rather unfounded, it doesn’t make those fears any less real, but I have seen with time that many of these fears are laid to rest when they don’t actually materialize . I have a good friend who has been married to her wife for a very long time, they have seen their kids grow up and have children of their own, and her wife was worried  about the very same thing. I have spoken with her wife on occasion and was pleasantly surprised to hear that even though all of those fears and worries were once there, she still allowed time to play out, and kept an open mind, these days the two of them are closer than ever,  and do everything together. One of the things I believe was very successful was that my friend included her wife in decision making processes, and typically once a month includes her wife in group therapy sessions, I don’t know if you’re going to therapy,  but couples therapy with a transgender experienced therapist might do both of you a world of good. I’m sending all the positive energy and good thoughts that I have today your way, I hope everything is moving in a positive direction for both of you. 

 Hugs, 

Jackie

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Martyn
1 hour ago, jae bear said:

 

 Our spouses often have fears and worries that are rather unfounded, it doesn’t make those fears any less real, but I have seen with time that many of these fears are laid to rest when they don’t actually materialize . I have a good friend who has been married to her wife for a very long time, they have seen their kids grow up and have children of their own, and her wife was worried  about the very same thing. I have spoken with her wife on occasion and was pleasantly surprised to hear that even though all of those fears and worries were once there, she still allowed time to play out, and kept an open mind, these days the two of them are closer than ever,  and do everything together. One of the things I believe was very successful was that my friend included her wife in decision making processes, and typically once a month includes her wife in group therapy sessions, I don’t know if you’re going to therapy,  but couples therapy with a transgender experienced therapist might do both of you a world of good. I’m sending all the positive energy and good thoughts that I have today your way, I hope everything is moving in a positive direction for both of you. 

 Hugs, 

Jackie

Hi Jackie, yes I have been seeing a therapist, my wife has seen her once with me, she still sees me turning into a woman and nothing I do or say changed that.

the marriage has totally broken down now, she wants me out. Life’s suddenly taken a cruel turn, I don’t want to loose her but it seems I already have.

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Susan R

20 hours ago Jae Bear said:

 

“but couples therapy with a transgender experienced therapist might do both of you a world of good”

 

I'm considering doing this with my wife.  I've only attended therapy myself.  Although this has been very helpful for me, I'm worried that my wife attends that she will find out too early through a group session that I intend to go all the way with SRS.  This may scare her if she learns too much, too quick.  I'm currently only revealing a little at a time.  I'm probably going discuss this group therapy idea next session but I think my therapist just going to say it may be too soon based on my wife's reluctance right now.  She is very aware of how my wife feels about this whole thing.

 

20 hours ago, Martyn said:

I have been seeing a therapist, my wife has seen her once with me, she still sees me turning into a woman and nothing I do or say changed that.

Martin, I was curious how your wife responded to this particular group therapy session, if you wouldn't mind sharing.  I am having trouble moving forward with wife in my transition.  So far my minimal physical changes from HRT haven't forced me to speed up my 'coming out' to others.  Right now, I'm sort of coasting a bit as far as further exposing my wife to my transition.

 

Susan R🌷

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jae bear

 I feel deeply for you Martyn, this is a very difficult path for married couples, I know firsthand how you must feel right now. Please let me assure you that no matter what happens you’re going to be OK, hopefully you can patch things up with your wife,  let her know how much you love her. I know in my case my wife felt that she had no control over the situation at all, and in many ways she was right, I was transitioning and not considering her wishes or telling her what was happening...  I think her lack of control formed the decision to ask me to leave the marriage, among other feelings of embarrassment with friends and family, and her realization that ultimately she would be perceived as a lesbian in public at some point.  I have no idea if this is what your wife is thinking, right now she is clearly in distress, and may need some time and reassurance. 

There is one side of this equation we don’t often talk about here, spouses of transitioning partners are often left with few solutions, they face all of the ridicule and judgments others would make about those who transition,  as well as condemnation for having stayed in a relationship with a transitioning partner. They really have to face as much or more judgment than the transitioning partner, friends and family members often form negative opinions about them for having stayed in the relationship, it sounds quite ridiculous but the support for the spouses of transitioning partners is nil to none, and they often receive nothing but grief from others. That being said those who stay have a very hard road, however spouses who do stay often find a new, or different relationship with their partners, where it is often very fulfilling even if very different from the original Relationship.  Right now it sounds like your wife is absolutely convinced you will be transitioning to a level that she is not comfortable with, and since she does not know what that truly looks like she is fearful of the future, she most likely is also fearful that your current level of wants and needs are temporary, and that you will wish to transition further at some later point, I know this was true for my wife and myself, and my wife was right, I could not rest until I fully transitioned. 

 Hugs, 

Jackie

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Martyn

Thank you Jackie, forgive the shortness of my reply but unfortunately I have had to move out of the family home, though a combination of my wife being worn down by my struggling business with all that that entails along with my recent obsession with discovering my non binary within me, I say obsession because in hindsight I have devoted all my energy and time into researching and experimenting but not devoting the same attention to my wife - I feel utterly distraught that I have caused this and see the liklyhood of winning her back as very remote. Besides my family I have no friends at all, I’m a loner and the thought of being soo alone horrified me, if I’m honest I don’t want to be around anymore, life has collapsed around me and it’s all my fault 

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jae bear
Just now, Martyn said:

if I’m honest I don’t want to be around anymore, life has collapsed around me and it’s all my fault 

 Martyn, Honey, listen to me when I tell you this is not your fault, you certainly have been working hard to maintain the relationship with your wife but you have not caused the collapse of your marriage, you have been honest with your wife and it did put her in a position where she had to make a decision about the direction of her life, the outcome of that decision is not your responsibility,  and I have been in the very place you are right now, it’s going to get better. I had this very conversation with others here on the forum when I was in distress, and they were here for me just as they will be for you, and I am here right now to echo the words of others and remind you that things will turn around and things will get better even if They are different than they are right now.  I remember thinking the very same thoughts, I had no friends, no one to talk to about these things, and family members certainly were going to be difficult to discuss this with. My wife had made her decision just as yours right now trying to determine her future, this certainly is a snap, knee-jerk reaction and not a well thought out Decision about how to face her future. I understand the idea of spending all of your time trying to operate your business along with delving deep inside yourself, introspection at this level is not simple, It takes time and effort it is not something any of us come to lightly, it takes time and self-care. Right now you need to take time to step back  and exercising some self-care, and remember the words I’m telling you now, just as those here once told me when I was in the very place you are now, it’s going to be OK, it’s going to get better, you will get through this.

I think this is a good time to contact your therapist, my therapist helped me get through so much but the hard part of My life, I saw my therapist this morning and feel recharged, I think now is a perfect time for you to see someone who can listen and understand. Also remember we are all here for you, keep this conversation going and reach out, that is why we are here.

 Huge hugs for you Martyn,

Jackie

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Martyn

Thank you for your kind words Jackie,

i have seen my therapst quite recently, my wife did too on her own, it transpires that the therapist made a comment that there may be a better life for her, I hope she wasn’t meaning away from me though ? :0(

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jae bear

 Therapists often only have their clients best interest at heart, and this would not be unheard of, my wife went through a similar experience. I think the one idea that really sunk my wife was that she would be viewed as a lesbian in public, and that simple idea and visual was simply too much for her to handle. Often with time  our spouses come to realize these fears are unfounded, but unless they take the time to get there they will never find out. I now have some friends that I can rely upon, both trans people and CIS gender female, and I must say that developing my CIS gender female friendships Has been incredibly rewarding, to be allowed access to that world and experience those things with the girls is something I have personally waited for all my life, you may find similar experiences or develop new friends with new experiences that fulfill you in ways you did not previously imagine.

 Hugs, 

Jackie

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Susan R

Martyn, I don't have anything to add to what Jackie has already stated.  She has given you some great advice.  I simply want you to know that my heart goes out to you in this most difficult situation.  Things will get better.  I know it's hard to see this right now but think back to all the low points in your past.  Eventually, all things come to pass and this will also.

 

With a concerned heart,

Susan R🌷

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Martyn

Thank you Susan, the hardest part is she keeps repeating we’re over no matter how hard I try to explain things or attempt to win her back, if I could wind the clock bar and sacrifice some of my desires to bring us together again I would, 19 years I don’t want to let go of but it’s slipped through my fingers already, I miss and love her so much 

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Susan R

I'm right there with you, Martyn, I have 21 years with my wife and I can't imagine being without her.  Lately, I feel like I'm in a holding pattern waiting in my marriage as I move through transitioning...not knowing her thoughts.

I know how much is a stake but there no need to give up on the situation.  It's possible this whole thing is a knee-jerk reaction to a situation that she was not well prepared.  Give it time.  I'm sure deep down she still loves you very much.  It's not that easy to just write someone off that you've invested that much time.

 

Susan R🌷

 

ps: forgive me for misspelling your name in my previous post. Apparently, spellcheck had other ideas.

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Jani

Martyn, I'm asking you to think positive thoughts.  You will be around for quite some time.   I understand that you want to maintain your marriage as it is important to you but as a marriage is a partnership your wife must feel the same for it to work for both of you.  Unfortunately things happen that will be beyond our control.  You cannot make your wife's mind up for her.   She is the master of it as you are the master of your mind.  Be brave and do what is best for both of you, even if that may be apart.  As Jackie noted (and others have too) your wife may come around to eventually be a friend and supporter, but she needs time.  ...On her schedule which is different than yours.  You chose to come out as NB, that was your choice.  

 

Hang in there.  You will be all right.  And so will your wife.  

 

Hugs, Jani

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MaryEllen

I can only echo what all the others have said. No. You are not alone in being this way.

 

MaryEllen

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Martyn
2 hours ago, Jani said:

Martyn, I'm asking you to think positive thoughts.  You chose to come out as NB, that was your choice.  

 

Hang in there.  You will be all right.  And so will your wife.  

 

Hugs, Jani

I have no positive thoughts now, nothing.

my choice to come out is my biggest regret ever.  I’m not like most on here I’ve never had these feelings before , I’m 47 and it just came out of the blue, my wife thinks I’ve lied to her all these years and says I must have know years ago - thing is I genuinely have never had these thoughts before.  The only thought sort of similar is my hate of body hair which I have surpressed up until two years ago, I’ve since the been having laser and taking anti androgen meds to keep the hair at bay. I can only assume this process triggered off the NB feelings.

i so wish I could take it all back, it just wasn’t worth it, my marriage was far more important. Everything is lost now , I have nothing left nor the desire want to continue 

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Robin

Hi Martyn,

 

I can totally understand why you feel terrible at the moment.  However, you have now selected a path that you know is more appropriate for you. 

 

At this stage, you are in a "can't make an omelette without breaking eggs" situation.  When you begin to smell the omelette, you will be glad that you chose to make it.  When your wife sees you enjoying the omelette, she may well want to share it.

 

Robin.

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Martyn

I so wish that would be true Robin, very sadly it’s absolutly never going to be like that, no way back whatsoever 

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AsTheCrow

I may be wrong, but I don't think Robin was talking about going back at all, but forward!

 

Yep, things have changed, and it's a hard time for everyone involved. Your goal shouldn't be to go back, but to keep moving forward, whatever that means.

 

I wonder -- do you think your wife and son really have such strong negative opinions on trans and nonbinary people in general, or do you think their reaction is based more on their feelings about your relationship?

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Jani

Since you are only speaking of small changes, (hair, etc) is this possibly a way for your wife to leave under conditions that are favourable to her?  Is she unhappy in your marriage?  

 

 

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RithiaAllen
7 hours ago, Martyn said:

I so wish that would be true Robin, very sadly it’s absolutly never going to be like that, no way back whatsoever 

There is never a way back in life but there is always a way forward. It may seem that you lost your universe in mere moments.

 

However when doors close others open. Maybe this frees you to be you and your wife can sense desires even if you deny them to her and yourself.

 

Maybe after she has cooled off you two can still be close as friends and hopefully your child will come back around too. Don’t force it though because they need time to process their thoughts and emotions. It’s possible your sons anger is derived from a combination of things.

 

I know that you want things to go back the way that they where and unfortunately that isn’t possible. But your life isn’t over and it is still worth living.

 

I hope you are doing better. 🤗

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jae bear
9 minutes ago, Jani said:

Since you are only speaking of small changes, (hair, etc) is this possibly a way for your wife to leave under conditions that are favourable to her?  Is she unhappy in your marriage?  

 

 

 

 I am also curious about Jani’s question, I do know that in my case it was true, my wife started hunting for big problems to use as an ending to the marriage. The overreactions that came afterward were confusing  and hurtful, I can look back now and see that her goal was to find reasons to leave the marriage, but we did not have a solid foundation to begin with. 

10 hours ago, Martyn said:

I have nothing left nor the desire want to continue 

 While I  have had moments where these thoughts did float about, during the same types of moments you are experiencing now, I can tell you from my perspective that things are going to be OK even if the current direction is unchanged.  Marital discord can be extremely distressing, and it seems we both have a tendency to blame ourselves for everything, but Martyn please hear me when I tell you, it is not just you...  your wife Has her hands on the wheel of this ship more than you do right now, she is deciding the direction even if you are tugging as hard as you can to keep the two of you on course.  Your coming out to her, admitting to yourself that you  accept this part of who you are was the most honest thing you could do, you were honest with your wife, you talked with her about it, and you did not foresee a crash landing on the rocks, did you? Your wife’s reaction seems to be a surprise, doesn’t it? Your wife is acting out of character right now,  she may have her own pathway that she’s not being honest with you about, and keeping the communication going is very important, even if the two of you find separate pathways.  

My ex-wife and I are quite often very cordial to one another now, I wouldn’t say that we are best friends or anything, but we do have nice conversations when we take the time to see how each other is doing, and I do see that a friendship is possible in the future, something I never thought that would be possible the way things used to be. Have you considered these ideas? I understand right now  you don’t have thoughts about a happy future because you can’t envision them, I understand how you feel, I have been there too, and I will tell you again, you are going to be just fine, it might be rough right now, but no matter which way the two of you turn, the rough seas will calm,  it just takes time and communication. Right now your wife might need some space and some time, I would not worry too much about her answers right now, just let her know you love her and that you are here for her...  it’s up to her now to do the rest of the hard work. 

 I’m sending both you and your wife all the positive energy I have today, every ounce of Goodwill and gladness it’s on its way to you right now. 

  Great big hugs, two of them, 

 Jackie 

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Martyn
3 hours ago, AsTheCrow said:

I wonder -- do you think your wife and son really have such strong negative opinions on trans and nonbinary people in general, or do you think their reaction is based more on their feelings about your relationship?

Yes very against anything non binary or trans related, they are disgusted I would consider wearing feminine tops, they feel totally humiliated and embarrassed that I would do that

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Martyn
3 hours ago, Jani said:

Since you are only speaking of small changes, (hair, etc) is this possibly a way for your wife to leave under conditions that are favourable to her?  Is she unhappy in your marriage?  

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Jani said:

Since you are only speaking of small changes, (hair, etc) is this possibly a way for your wife to leave under conditions that are favourable to her?  Is she unhappy in your marriage?  

 

 

My wife and son have completely accepted the body hair situation, the tipping point has been the feminine shirts and me considering taking ‘E’ along with a mastectomy if needed to remove the breast tissue that I don’t want

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Martyn
3 hours ago, Jani said:

is this possibly a way for your wife to leave under conditions that are favourable to her?  Is she unhappy in your marriage?  

 

 

Very possible as it’s been difficult for a long time, my business being a major issue and my inability over our entire marraige suffering with errectile dysfunction, although she been understanding it’s bound to be a big issue, it’s hounded me forever that I was unable to perform and satisfy in a way a husband should be able too. 

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Jani

I would stop speaking of this mastectomy, as if it is ever needed it will be some time down the road.   As to the shirts, wear men's shirts that are more floral and made with softer materials (rayon, cotton), thereby satisfying your needs yet not "violating" your wife and son's sensibilities (however outdated).  

 

You can only control how your business goes to a point as the economy will drive a lot of the success or failure.  As to ED, you can go to a doctor to get help for this.   

 

Jani

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Martyn
Just now, Jani said:

As to the shirts, wear men's shirts that are more floral and made with softer materials (rayon, cotton), thereby satisfying your needs yet not "violating" your wife and son's sensibilities (however outdated).  

 

As to ED, you can go to a doctor to get help for this.   

 

Jani

As we are now separated I m now staying with my parents, I’m also taking a few days away to collect my thoughts and spend some time shopping for the things I like, I can now please myself at least.

the frustration from my perspective is that just prior to our relationship detiorating I had started to use penile injections, it meant that for the first time we could make love properly, the sad part is that is all gone now, hurts like hell

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      Most of the name brands go from affordable to way too expensive.  I have had good luck and low enough cost from Louis Fere, John Renau, and Henri Margu wigs.  Revlon is good as well. 
    • Susan R
      “Inexpensive” is relative but I’ve bought Paul’s Young wigs in the $60-$100 range that were OK and looked fairly real on me.  Before you buy online though, it’s a good idea to at least try your local wig shop...a “mom and pop” type shop, if you can.  You can find some deals in these places on occasion.  Be sure to stop in very early in the morning at the wig shop when they are less likely to be busy.  Monday’s and Tuesday’s preferably so you can get some undivided attention.  I did this so many times and it was so helpful to be able to not feel hurried.  I would try on a dozen or so different types and style plus you can find your correct size.  I remember being pleasantly surprised and bought a wig style that I wasn’t planning on originally. After trying it on a few times decided to buy.  You”ll pay $80 and up depending on length, style, construction and quality but it’s worth it.   IMHO, it’s better to have one really good wig that fits and looks good than 3 that fit “ok”, look “ok” but only last a few months or so.   Susan R🌷
    • Susan R
      Welcome to our community, Kendal.  Congrats also on you upcoming surgery.   What I wasn’t clear about in your post was whether or not your spouse referred to you as simply her “spouse”.  Will she convey any importance of relationship or some marital connection similar way as “partner, wife, or husband” would?  It is possible she may not yet be comfortable conveying your relationship to others at any level.   Right after going full time, I knew my wife was a bit hestitant the first few times as she introduced me to someone as her spouse.  She got over it fast.  I realize it was a huge paradigm shift for her. My wife refers to me as “spouse” or “wife” and it seems to be pretty effortless for her now.  She knows it outs us immediately as lesbian and/or me as trans.  We are fine with both and both are accurate, so why not?  On very rare occasions when referring to a past event or memory, my wife may use my dead name only for clarification.  I’ve never corrected her when she does this because it was, after all, my name at that time.  In public she refers to me as just Susan and other times she will add the connection but saying “my spouse, Susan”.   Susan R🌷
    • ShawnaLeigh
      I have been looking on amazon "Wigs for women" in the search bar.  There are a ton that are around $20 and good enough to pass as real.   I am going this route to play around with one and learn.  I eventually plan to go to my local wig shop and go through the whole process but this shop is a higher end and appointment only.  I want to have some knowledge before going.  LOL
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