Afraid I'll regret abandoning my femininity?

[dormouse]

Ok, I’ve been workshopping this for a while bc I’m having a hard time putting this feeling into words, so I hope this makes sense ^^’

 

So, I'm a 19 year old pre-everything probably-trans-guy (still sort of questioning), out to only a small group of friends, and have been tentatively inching towards transition for 4 years now. (I recently cut my hair short for the first time!) My dysphoria has been particularly bad the past few months, and the happy feeling I get when picturing myself as a man in the future has been stronger than ever, so I’ve been seriously thinking about pursuing T -- but I’m not sure if that’s the right decision, because every time I read about the changes it causes, I have these weirdly mixed feelings. The thing is, I definitely have dysphoria -- I angle my face in the mirror to minimize its softness, actively try to look flat in my clothes, despise the width of my hips and the scrawniness of my arms, take comfort in growing out my body hair, you know the drill. So the effects of T should all be things I’m excited about, and when I think about it, yeah, I'll need those changes if I want to look anything like the future me I picture. But at the same time, I can’t shake the feeling that I’d be… downgrading in some way, by transitioning? Things like “skin becoming rougher” and “fat shifting from hips to belly” just sound like bad things, because they’ll make me less ““beautiful”” in a traditional sense (which I know is bull, but hey, being socialized as a girl is rough), even if when I think rationally about it I know they would probably alleviate my dysphoria. I definitely don’t mean to insult any transmasc people when I say this -- I don’t even necessarily believe it (at least not consciously) -- but the ideas that “women are objectively better looking than men and better overall as a concept” and “it’s always better to be beautiful than not” are thoughts that I can’t shake. It terrifies me, because I DO think I want to transition, but I’m worried that if I do, I’ll regret giving up my… access to that type of beauty, I guess? I’ve been told I make a pretty girl, and when I’m presenting particularly fem I find that I do appreciate how I look, I’ll pose in front of the mirror and things like that -- but it’s hard to say if I actually want to be the girl in the mirror or if I just like looking at her. I’m fairly certain I’m bi, and I’ve been trying to see if framing this feeling as attraction to women helps anything fall into place -- like, I feel like if I transitioned I would miss having some feminine presence in my life, but maybe that void is meant to be filled by dating women rather than by being one. But I can’t tell if I’m misleading myself by thinking that way. Do cis men who are attracted to women feel this way?

 

I know this could mean that I’m genderfluid, or a man for whom physically transitioning just isn’t the right choice, but I guess the clincher is I don’t really want to live as genderfluid or as a pre-everything trans man -- if I’m going to live as a man at all, I want to go “all the way.” (Of course I don’t think trans men are obligated to medically transition, this is just how I feel about it for myself.) The idea of being a very feminine or even androgynous man used to appeal to me a lot (probably because for a while my role models were all anime characters, haha), but as I’ve found more masculine role models it’s starting to feel weird; I think if I were to transition, I would want to be relatively masc. I would probably do my fair share of crossdressing, because I like pretty clothes, but I wouldn’t want to be a man with a “womanly” body. So what do you think this feeling toward beauty and femininity means? Is it just the effect of being socialized as a girl, internalizing the belief that my worth comes from whether or not I’m beautiful? Or is it me misinterpreting my attraction to women as a desire to be a woman? Or have I actually been a cis woman (or genderfluid) the whole time? How can I tell the difference?

[killjoyaiden]

Hey! Message me and we can talk it out!

 

Stay safe and stay alive,

Aiden

[dormouse]

@killjoyaiden ok! I will once I'm able, I think there's a new user restriction because it says I can currently send "0 messages per day" 

[EliAtkins]

First, having doubts is perfectly natural!  Like you, I feel like I keep sort of talking myself around in circles about whether or not I want to transition some day and I'm still in the early stages of this journey so I had to sort of put that whole decision on the shelf for the time being.

 

You're asking a lot of really deep questions and it sounds like you're ready to do the work.  No one can answer these questions for you, but you might want to consider exploring them with a good gender therapist.

 

That being said, transitioning is a big deal, emotionally as well as physically.  I can't speak to it personally because I'm pre-everything, but I imagine there would be some sort of grieving process for the loss of your feminine self.  Although, this is your transition so feel free to write your own rules!

 

Also, try not to put so much emphasis on who you're attracted to as an indicator of your gender identity because the two are very separate things.

[dormouse]

ah thanks @EliAtkins ☺️ yeah, you're right -- I'm looking into seeing a therapist now, although I'm a little confused on whether a "gender therapist" is a formal category or just any therapist who's gender-affirming? I'm having an intake appointment with the latter in a few weeks, which I'm nervous but excited about!

12 minutes ago, EliAtkins said:

I imagine there would be some sort of grieving process for the loss of your feminine self.

it's actually pretty comforting to think that having a grieving process might be normal. i think if grieving was something I had to do, I could get through it... it's more a question of whether or not grieving is a sign of having made the wrong choice. I'd love to hear perspectives on this from people who have been through it.

1 minute ago, EliAtkins said:

Also, try not to put so much emphasis on who you're attracted to as an indicator of your gender identity because the two are very separate things.

true... I have a bad habit of linking those things in my reasoning when they shouldn't be linked. but I can't help but get hung up on it anyway sometimes, because I really want to have a mental image of the type of person I want to be, and I don't know where to get that image except by looking at people around me... but then every time find someone I'm really drawn to, I have stop and think, "wait, what does this mean? am I into you or do I want to be you?" ? so in that sense, I feel like understanding who I'm attracted to is important so I can sort out those feelings from feelings of envy, y'know?

[EliAtkins]

Just now, dormouse said:

ah thanks @EliAtkins ☺️ yeah, you're right -- I'm looking into seeing a therapist now, although I'm a little confused on whether a "gender therapist" is a formal category or just any therapist who's gender-affirming? I'm having an intake appointment with the latter in a few weeks, which I'm nervous but excited about!

 

When you read through the therapist's bio, usually they'll list issues/specialties they handle.  Look for either gender issues or gender-affirming on the list.  Of course, there's nothing wrong with going to someone who isn't a 'gender therapist' as long as they're willing to learn if you get into an area they're not fully knowledgeable about and you feel comfortable working with them.

 

Attraction and gender identity do overlap at points.  That is inevitable.  And there's nothing to say you can't also question/explore your attractions as well.  It's a fuzzy line separating everything in a picture that's as clear as mud, haha.  I don't remember who it was that recommended it or if you saw it on another topic, but one member mentioned their therapist had them do a pinterest board for their own version of what masculinity was for them.  Maybe that's something you might want to consider doing at some point?  Find pictures and/or quotes that represent either yourself as a masculine person/trans guy or even simply what is your ideal version of masculinity.  Having some way of focusing your mental image and getting that into something a little more tangible might help you make the distinction between someone you see as a role model vs. someone you're attracted to in a romantic/sexual way.

[dormouse]

10 minutes ago, EliAtkins said:

one member mentioned their therapist had them do a pinterest board for their own version of what masculinity was for them.  Maybe that's something you might want to consider doing at some point?  Find pictures and/or quotes that represent either yourself as a masculine person/trans guy or even simply what is your ideal version of masculinity.

ohh that's a great idea! I had one a few years ago but it's way out of date (again, anime boys ?), I think making a new one could be really helpful. thank you!

[Motormouth95]

Everyone has a some feminine/masculine qualitie I know some guys who enjoy things that are considered feminine and vice versa for ladies. It really depends upon what you feel is right for you. Having doubt is normal. I would suggest buying  or at least trying on a few masculine/men's outfits that you like. Then, look in the mirror, and compare what you think about what see to what you see/think when you have on feminine clothing. 

[AaronS]

On 5/5/2019 at 1:05 AM, dormouse said:

Ok, I’ve been workshopping this for a while bc I’m having a hard time putting this feeling into words, so I hope this makes sense ^^’

 

So, I'm a 19 year old pre-everything probably-trans-guy (still sort of questioning), out to only a small group of friends, and have been tentatively inching towards transition for 4 years now. (I recently cut my hair short for the first time!) My dysphoria has been particularly bad the past few months, and the happy feeling I get when picturing myself as a man in the future has been stronger than ever, so I’ve been seriously thinking about pursuing T -- but I’m not sure if that’s the right decision, because every time I read about the changes it causes, I have these weirdly mixed feelings. The thing is, I definitely have dysphoria -- I angle my face in the mirror to minimize its softness, actively try to look flat in my clothes, despise the width of my hips and the scrawniness of my arms, take comfort in growing out my body hair, you know the drill. So the effects of T should all be things I’m excited about, and when I think about it, yeah, I'll need those changes if I want to look anything like the future me I picture. But at the same time, I can’t shake the feeling that I’d be… downgrading in some way, by transitioning? Things like “skin becoming rougher” and “fat shifting from hips to belly” just sound like bad things, because they’ll make me less ““beautiful”” in a traditional sense (which I know is bull, but hey, being socialized as a girl is rough), even if when I think rationally about it I know they would probably alleviate my dysphoria. I definitely don’t mean to insult any transmasc people when I say this -- I don’t even necessarily believe it (at least not consciously) -- but the ideas that “women are objectively better looking than men and better overall as a concept” and “it’s always better to be beautiful than not” are thoughts that I can’t shake. It terrifies me, because I DO think I want to transition, but I’m worried that if I do, I’ll regret giving up my… access to that type of beauty, I guess? I’ve been told I make a pretty girl, and when I’m presenting particularly fem I find that I do appreciate how I look, I’ll pose in front of the mirror and things like that -- but it’s hard to say if I actually want to be the girl in the mirror or if I just like looking at her. I’m fairly certain I’m bi, and I’ve been trying to see if framing this feeling as attraction to women helps anything fall into place -- like, I feel like if I transitioned I would miss having some feminine presence in my life, but maybe that void is meant to be filled by dating women rather than by being one. But I can’t tell if I’m misleading myself by thinking that way. Do cis men who are attracted to women feel this way?

 

I know this could mean that I’m genderfluid, or a man for whom physically transitioning just isn’t the right choice, but I guess the clincher is I don’t really want to live as genderfluid or as a pre-everything trans man -- if I’m going to live as a man at all, I want to go “all the way.” (Of course I don’t think trans men are obligated to medically transition, this is just how I feel about it for myself.) The idea of being a very feminine or even androgynous man used to appeal to me a lot (probably because for a while my role models were all anime characters, haha), but as I’ve found more masculine role models it’s starting to feel weird; I think if I were to transition, I would want to be relatively masc. I would probably do my fair share of crossdressing, because I like pretty clothes, but I wouldn’t want to be a man with a “womanly” body. So what do you think this feeling toward beauty and femininity means? Is it just the effect of being socialized as a girl, internalizing the belief that my worth comes from whether or not I’m beautiful? Or is it me misinterpreting my attraction to women as a desire to be a woman? Or have I actually been a cis woman (or genderfluid) the whole time? How can I tell the difference?

I think you have to know you shouldn't rule out being a trans man because of these feelings at least. Figuring out your identity is hard and you'll get through it! But trans men do sure as hell experience this! I am also pre-everything, but I've fully socially transitioned, I introduce myself with my name, people use he/him for me (when they read me correctly or know me), and I buy pretty much only clothes I experience as manly. Before making those changes I didn't really worry about losing my femininity, but afterwards when looking at photos from my prom I think to myself that I was really pretty, and I'm not like that now, I'm not ugly, but I've lost that feminine I was brought up to strive for. I start missing the days when I was conventionally attractive, which I'm not anymore. This is me just vomiting thoughts tho, I see now that these thoughts and feelings might be different from yours, take all of this with a grain of salt. But I do think we live in a world where afab people are pressured more to look good, and that will influence our psyche. Try to deal with those thoughts, feel them, accept them, but don't let them rule your life. There was a period where I looked at old photos constantly and wanted to socially go back, because back then, I fit in. Now I feel I'm being read as somewhere in the middle, which I'm not, and I feel great shame with it, but I can't let it hold me back, I never went back to being "a girl" to fit in, and I never want to. It's better being me, and I hope you manage to be you, even if you don't completely know what that looks like yet. Don't rush HRT if you're not sure yet, if you feel no urgency then there is none! 

Best of luck!