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Afraid I'll regret abandoning my femininity?


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Ok, I’ve been workshopping this for a while bc I’m having a hard time putting this feeling into words, so I hope this makes sense ^^’

 

So, I'm a 19 year old pre-everything probably-trans-guy (still sort of questioning), out to only a small group of friends, and have been tentatively inching towards transition for 4 years now. (I recently cut my hair short for the first time!) My dysphoria has been particularly bad the past few months, and the happy feeling I get when picturing myself as a man in the future has been stronger than ever, so I’ve been seriously thinking about pursuing T -- but I’m not sure if that’s the right decision, because every time I read about the changes it causes, I have these weirdly mixed feelings. The thing is, I definitely have dysphoria -- I angle my face in the mirror to minimize its softness, actively try to look flat in my clothes, despise the width of my hips and the scrawniness of my arms, take comfort in growing out my body hair, you know the drill. So the effects of T should all be things I’m excited about, and when I think about it, yeah, I'll need those changes if I want to look anything like the future me I picture. But at the same time, I can’t shake the feeling that I’d be… downgrading in some way, by transitioning? Things like “skin becoming rougher” and “fat shifting from hips to belly” just sound like bad things, because they’ll make me less ““beautiful”” in a traditional sense (which I know is bull, but hey, being socialized as a girl is rough), even if when I think rationally about it I know they would probably alleviate my dysphoria. I definitely don’t mean to insult any transmasc people when I say this -- I don’t even necessarily believe it (at least not consciously) -- but the ideas that “women are objectively better looking than men and better overall as a concept” and “it’s always better to be beautiful than not” are thoughts that I can’t shake. It terrifies me, because I DO think I want to transition, but I’m worried that if I do, I’ll regret giving up my… access to that type of beauty, I guess? I’ve been told I make a pretty girl, and when I’m presenting particularly fem I find that I do appreciate how I look, I’ll pose in front of the mirror and things like that -- but it’s hard to say if I actually want to be the girl in the mirror or if I just like looking at her. I’m fairly certain I’m bi, and I’ve been trying to see if framing this feeling as attraction to women helps anything fall into place -- like, I feel like if I transitioned I would miss having some feminine presence in my life, but maybe that void is meant to be filled by dating women rather than by being one. But I can’t tell if I’m misleading myself by thinking that way. Do cis men who are attracted to women feel this way?

 

I know this could mean that I’m genderfluid, or a man for whom physically transitioning just isn’t the right choice, but I guess the clincher is I don’t really want to live as genderfluid or as a pre-everything trans man -- if I’m going to live as a man at all, I want to go “all the way.” (Of course I don’t think trans men are obligated to medically transition, this is just how I feel about it for myself.) The idea of being a very feminine or even androgynous man used to appeal to me a lot (probably because for a while my role models were all anime characters, haha), but as I’ve found more masculine role models it’s starting to feel weird; I think if I were to transition, I would want to be relatively masc. I would probably do my fair share of crossdressing, because I like pretty clothes, but I wouldn’t want to be a man with a “womanly” body. So what do you think this feeling toward beauty and femininity means? Is it just the effect of being socialized as a girl, internalizing the belief that my worth comes from whether or not I’m beautiful? Or is it me misinterpreting my attraction to women as a desire to be a woman? Or have I actually been a cis woman (or genderfluid) the whole time? How can I tell the difference?

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Hey! Message me and we can talk it out!

 

Stay safe and stay alive,

Aiden

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@killjoyaiden ok! I will once I'm able, I think there's a new user restriction because it says I can currently send "0 messages per day" :unsure:

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First, having doubts is perfectly natural!  Like you, I feel like I keep sort of talking myself around in circles about whether or not I want to transition some day and I'm still in the early stages of this journey so I had to sort of put that whole decision on the shelf for the time being.

 

You're asking a lot of really deep questions and it sounds like you're ready to do the work.  No one can answer these questions for you, but you might want to consider exploring them with a good gender therapist.

 

That being said, transitioning is a big deal, emotionally as well as physically.  I can't speak to it personally because I'm pre-everything, but I imagine there would be some sort of grieving process for the loss of your feminine self.  Although, this is your transition so feel free to write your own rules!

 

Also, try not to put so much emphasis on who you're attracted to as an indicator of your gender identity because the two are very separate things.

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ah thanks @EliAtkins ☺️ yeah, you're right -- I'm looking into seeing a therapist now, although I'm a little confused on whether a "gender therapist" is a formal category or just any therapist who's gender-affirming? I'm having an intake appointment with the latter in a few weeks, which I'm nervous but excited about!

12 minutes ago, EliAtkins said:

I imagine there would be some sort of grieving process for the loss of your feminine self.

it's actually pretty comforting to think that having a grieving process might be normal. i think if grieving was something I had to do, I could get through it... it's more a question of whether or not grieving is a sign of having made the wrong choice. I'd love to hear perspectives on this from people who have been through it.

1 minute ago, EliAtkins said:

Also, try not to put so much emphasis on who you're attracted to as an indicator of your gender identity because the two are very separate things.

true... I have a bad habit of linking those things in my reasoning when they shouldn't be linked. but I can't help but get hung up on it anyway sometimes, because I really want to have a mental image of the type of person I want to be, and I don't know where to get that image except by looking at people around me... but then every time find someone I'm really drawn to, I have stop and think, "wait, what does this mean? am I into you or do I want to be you?" ? so in that sense, I feel like understanding who I'm attracted to is important so I can sort out those feelings from feelings of envy, y'know?

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Just now, dormouse said:

ah thanks @EliAtkins ☺️ yeah, you're right -- I'm looking into seeing a therapist now, although I'm a little confused on whether a "gender therapist" is a formal category or just any therapist who's gender-affirming? I'm having an intake appointment with the latter in a few weeks, which I'm nervous but excited about!

 

When you read through the therapist's bio, usually they'll list issues/specialties they handle.  Look for either gender issues or gender-affirming on the list.  Of course, there's nothing wrong with going to someone who isn't a 'gender therapist' as long as they're willing to learn if you get into an area they're not fully knowledgeable about and you feel comfortable working with them.

 

Attraction and gender identity do overlap at points.  That is inevitable.  And there's nothing to say you can't also question/explore your attractions as well.  It's a fuzzy line separating everything in a picture that's as clear as mud, haha.  I don't remember who it was that recommended it or if you saw it on another topic, but one member mentioned their therapist had them do a pinterest board for their own version of what masculinity was for them.  Maybe that's something you might want to consider doing at some point?  Find pictures and/or quotes that represent either yourself as a masculine person/trans guy or even simply what is your ideal version of masculinity.  Having some way of focusing your mental image and getting that into something a little more tangible might help you make the distinction between someone you see as a role model vs. someone you're attracted to in a romantic/sexual way.

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10 minutes ago, EliAtkins said:

one member mentioned their therapist had them do a pinterest board for their own version of what masculinity was for them.  Maybe that's something you might want to consider doing at some point?  Find pictures and/or quotes that represent either yourself as a masculine person/trans guy or even simply what is your ideal version of masculinity.

ohh that's a great idea! I had one a few years ago but it's way out of date (again, anime boys ?), I think making a new one could be really helpful. thank you!

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Everyone has a some feminine/masculine qualitie I know some guys who enjoy things that are considered feminine and vice versa for ladies. It really depends upon what you feel is right for you. Having doubt is normal. I would suggest buying  or at least trying on a few masculine/men's outfits that you like. Then, look in the mirror, and compare what you think about what see to what you see/think when you have on feminine clothing. 

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On 5/5/2019 at 1:05 AM, dormouse said:

Ok, I’ve been workshopping this for a while bc I’m having a hard time putting this feeling into words, so I hope this makes sense ^^’

 

So, I'm a 19 year old pre-everything probably-trans-guy (still sort of questioning), out to only a small group of friends, and have been tentatively inching towards transition for 4 years now. (I recently cut my hair short for the first time!) My dysphoria has been particularly bad the past few months, and the happy feeling I get when picturing myself as a man in the future has been stronger than ever, so I’ve been seriously thinking about pursuing T -- but I’m not sure if that’s the right decision, because every time I read about the changes it causes, I have these weirdly mixed feelings. The thing is, I definitely have dysphoria -- I angle my face in the mirror to minimize its softness, actively try to look flat in my clothes, despise the width of my hips and the scrawniness of my arms, take comfort in growing out my body hair, you know the drill. So the effects of T should all be things I’m excited about, and when I think about it, yeah, I'll need those changes if I want to look anything like the future me I picture. But at the same time, I can’t shake the feeling that I’d be… downgrading in some way, by transitioning? Things like “skin becoming rougher” and “fat shifting from hips to belly” just sound like bad things, because they’ll make me less ““beautiful”” in a traditional sense (which I know is bull, but hey, being socialized as a girl is rough), even if when I think rationally about it I know they would probably alleviate my dysphoria. I definitely don’t mean to insult any transmasc people when I say this -- I don’t even necessarily believe it (at least not consciously) -- but the ideas that “women are objectively better looking than men and better overall as a concept” and “it’s always better to be beautiful than not” are thoughts that I can’t shake. It terrifies me, because I DO think I want to transition, but I’m worried that if I do, I’ll regret giving up my… access to that type of beauty, I guess? I’ve been told I make a pretty girl, and when I’m presenting particularly fem I find that I do appreciate how I look, I’ll pose in front of the mirror and things like that -- but it’s hard to say if I actually want to be the girl in the mirror or if I just like looking at her. I’m fairly certain I’m bi, and I’ve been trying to see if framing this feeling as attraction to women helps anything fall into place -- like, I feel like if I transitioned I would miss having some feminine presence in my life, but maybe that void is meant to be filled by dating women rather than by being one. But I can’t tell if I’m misleading myself by thinking that way. Do cis men who are attracted to women feel this way?

 

I know this could mean that I’m genderfluid, or a man for whom physically transitioning just isn’t the right choice, but I guess the clincher is I don’t really want to live as genderfluid or as a pre-everything trans man -- if I’m going to live as a man at all, I want to go “all the way.” (Of course I don’t think trans men are obligated to medically transition, this is just how I feel about it for myself.) The idea of being a very feminine or even androgynous man used to appeal to me a lot (probably because for a while my role models were all anime characters, haha), but as I’ve found more masculine role models it’s starting to feel weird; I think if I were to transition, I would want to be relatively masc. I would probably do my fair share of crossdressing, because I like pretty clothes, but I wouldn’t want to be a man with a “womanly” body. So what do you think this feeling toward beauty and femininity means? Is it just the effect of being socialized as a girl, internalizing the belief that my worth comes from whether or not I’m beautiful? Or is it me misinterpreting my attraction to women as a desire to be a woman? Or have I actually been a cis woman (or genderfluid) the whole time? How can I tell the difference?

I think you have to know you shouldn't rule out being a trans man because of these feelings at least. Figuring out your identity is hard and you'll get through it! But trans men do sure as hell experience this! I am also pre-everything, but I've fully socially transitioned, I introduce myself with my name, people use he/him for me (when they read me correctly or know me), and I buy pretty much only clothes I experience as manly. Before making those changes I didn't really worry about losing my femininity, but afterwards when looking at photos from my prom I think to myself that I was really pretty, and I'm not like that now, I'm not ugly, but I've lost that feminine I was brought up to strive for. I start missing the days when I was conventionally attractive, which I'm not anymore. This is me just vomiting thoughts tho, I see now that these thoughts and feelings might be different from yours, take all of this with a grain of salt. But I do think we live in a world where afab people are pressured more to look good, and that will influence our psyche. Try to deal with those thoughts, feel them, accept them, but don't let them rule your life. There was a period where I looked at old photos constantly and wanted to socially go back, because back then, I fit in. Now I feel I'm being read as somewhere in the middle, which I'm not, and I feel great shame with it, but I can't let it hold me back, I never went back to being "a girl" to fit in, and I never want to. It's better being me, and I hope you manage to be you, even if you don't completely know what that looks like yet. Don't rush HRT if you're not sure yet, if you feel no urgency then there is none! 

Best of luck!

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"What's the matter?" "I am pretty touchy." "Okay.  Untie the straps in front and tie them the other way, like mine." "I don't have a belt." "There. That is right. You will get a belt after three months and passing tests on kata, kumite and karate knowledge." "I don't know what that is." "And we touch a lot here.  Not romantically. You see how Sensei Bob is going around and adjusting people's stances and arm locations." "Yes, I see that." No enthusiasm. "You are Sensei Bob's girl, right?" "Yes.  What is important to him is important to me, so here I am."  He wished her well and told her to go see Margie, who handled registration at the little table. "Hi, I heard about you." Margie began. "What does that mean?" "It means we treat everyone here with respect.  That was the wrong way to start." "I'll say. Try again." "Good morning. How can I help you?" "I want to register for the beginner class." "You are Taylor, right?" "Right." "Sensei Bob paid for your lesson today." He would. She gave name, address, age, height, weight, and they came to gender. Margie asked it twice. "Put down female." "The only other choice is male." "Then that is it." "Earlier I was thinking about tournaments, which are big here. The rules are that boys fight boys and girls fight girls - there are Men's and Women's Divisions.  I know you look like a woman, but they go by the birth certificate." This was awkward.  Really awkward.  Down at the other end of the room they were moving in unison when Bob said HAI!, turning, punching, kicking, etc. "I don't plan to go to tournaments.  One step at a time, shall we?" "Okay.  And I meant it when I said respect.  We bow to each other.  You will see. As a sign of honoring other people." Margie bowed slightly, sitting down.  Taylor returned the bow and smiled. The class moved into sparring, breaking into twos and practicing moves against each other.  Bob was moving among the pairs, adjusting positions of hands, hips, feet.  Taylor was unsure about someone touching her like that, her hips particularly.    The green belt class ended as new students came in for the beginners' class. Down at the other end the brown belt class began.  The room was large enough you could do two classes at the same time.   The other beginners, nervous, lined up at Margie's table.  People got into gis, the men in their big area and only woman in the little restroom that was for them.   Sensei Mark greeted them and showed them where to stand: on the little x's on the floor. He explained the School Code.  They would recite it at the beginning of class and they needed to memorize it for the white belt test, at which time they would, of course, receive a white belt. He explained some terms.    They warmed up with some basic, easy stretches.   They learned a kata called Taikyoku Shodan, involving blocks, punches and some movements. This was not bad.   She was now paired off with Judy.  Things were going well and this was not too bad. Judy was sixty years old and had been told to exercise by her doctor.  Taylor said her boyfriend was teaching the other class, which was impressive, and he wanted her involved.   "You remember the gedan barai - downward block?"  They did. Everyone showed him and he went around and made sure everyone had it down. "And the lunge punch?"  They did. "Now we are going to put them together. One of you will punch and the other block it. Okay?"   Taylor squared off against Judy.  Her heart was pounding.  She practiced her gedan barai as Judy practiced her lower lunge punch.  Then they faced each other. "Okay, first partner, lunge punch.  Second partner, lower block.  Slowly.  Go!" Taylor saw the punch coming at her, but instead of blocking it her eyes welled up with tears and she dropped to the floor, weeping uncontrollably. "Oh God, Oh, God, Oh God, make it stop, make it stop" she shouted to parties unseen. Fetal position, rocking back and forth. Crying hysterically. "I didn't go near her," Judy said, bewildered. "Taylor?"  this was Sensei Bob.  Both classes had stopped and were looking at her. She kept crying. "I am here, "Bob told her, not touching.  "Oh Bob you need a wife who can be a real woman to you. I am making you into a monk or something." And she continued crying at full volume. "You need someone better than me, someone who can give you kids." Everyone could hear this.  They were turning away, trying to pretend they could not hear this. "I need to get her out of here and take her." Bob said, and he and Mark bowed to each other. He scooped her up and she bawled into his shoulder.  She clung to him.  First hug ever. Death grip, more like it. "Judy, would you get her things?" "I did nothing," Judy said, and moved towards the restroom, stunned.  "Nothing." "I know what she was wearing," Margie said, and got them. "I've got a gym bag. It 's red and it says Roosters on it. Can you get it? Mark got it.  He accompanied them to the car.  Taylor was non-stop crying deeply, clinging to him for dear life. Mark unlocked the car and together they managed to pry Taylor off of him, even though it took both of them to do it.  She was in the car seat and they managed to buckle her in it. "I am going to take you to your apartment," he said. "No. Emergency room," she said. "Maybe the psych ward."  He didn't doubt it. She calmed down in a few minutes on the way. "Well, that was embarrassing." "Everyone remembers their first day of karate class." "Bob, what I love about you is your sense of humor." "I love everything about you." "Even this?" "Yes. Even this." She managed to walk into the ER.  They were both still in gis. "Karate accident?" "No. I am Taylor and I am a nut. I wear a gi all the time. I make my boyfriend wear one, too." "She had a triggered event.  She's had some difficult times." "I see. Do you you know are bleeding?" "No."  Her crotch was wet with blood and the blood was seeping down both legs. She was wheeled away. "Sir, please wait here." He did.  He had no legal right to see her right now. After a while a nurse came out and said he could come on  back. There she was in a hospital gown.  "Seems like old times." "yeah.  We gotta stop meeting like this." The nurse buzzed around and left them. "They are running tests." "I bet they are." "I got an MRI. On a Saturday morning, too."  First ever. "You rate.  But why?" "They figure some of the old scar tissue - you know, from the- from the past - ripped open and they need to see what is going on." "We know what is going on,"said a doctor, stepping in. He looked at her. "I am Doctor Michaels.  They called me in.  I just happened to be in the building and they wanted me to see this and take the case.  My specialty is Disorders of Sexual Development. But what I am seeing is little in the way of disorder.  Look at this." They looked at the image. "This is a perfectly ordinary uterus." "Uterus?" "Yes, your uterus." "What?" "That is not all.  This is a cervix, and this is a vagina." "It's blocked up." "Yes.  It looks like you had surgery to do exactly that when you were an infant.  They used to do that." "This is me?" "You." "Really?" "I imagine this takes some getting used to. "Can it be undone?" "Absolutely. I mean, I cannot guarantee it, but it is more than likely. I would like to run some tests." "And the bleeding?" "It looks like the hormones you have been taking have kicked of a regular monthly cycle. Then you did a whole bunch of exercise.  Not surprising." "What?" "I want you to come to my office next week for follow-up.  Have you ever had a genetic test of any sort?" "No." "Well, your testes - one looks at first glance more like an ovary." "Ovary. Can I have kids?" "Too soon to tell.  You look happy." She did.  "Bob, you look stunned." "I am." "Given what happened earlier today we want to keep you overnight for observation.  I understand you are a trauma victim and something triggered it." "I got a punch thrown at me in kara-tay class, is all. I am a wimp." "Well, I will let you two talk for a minute and they will come and get you shortly.  No bad news here." "They are coming to take me away, hah-hah, they are coming to take me away," Taylor chanted. "Bob, I am not done with kara-tay.  I want to at least finish a first class. I mean, you paid for it and I want you to get your money's worth." "I think I got that." "Kiss me, you fool,"  she said, and he did, with energy.        
    • April Marie
      These arrived in yesterday's mail. I'm out working in the yard today so just old clothes. I'm looking forward to wearing this t-shirt dress when the weather warms up a bit more.  
    • missyjo
      Ashley I've known busty girls who wore b nice bras tl work n such then like a sift sports bra to lounge or sleep in hugs
    • missyjo
      your nails b hair came wonderful  congratulations  enjoy
    • Willow
      The one thing about this position, if you want more hours just wait and be flexible.  I’m now working until 7:30 pm instead of 4:30.  
    • Ashley0616
      I hope your head cold goes away soon! Sorry you have to cut grass with that.   Love the new t-shirt   I love that one.    What Jeep would you want to get? That is awesome about your wife getting better!
    • Ashley0616
      Welcome Mattie! I would recommend the first step is finding a gender therapist and see if you are or aren't. Then one of the biggest steps if you are do you want to start hormone replacement therapy. The decision should be thought long and hard. There are irreversible effects. Looking forward to your next post! Take care!
    • Ashley0616
      Congratulations on being able to pick up a cancellation! I hope to hear more updates about your transition. 
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