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Q: Transgender, A mental disorder?


Maid In Bedlam

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I was just wondering after reading parts of the the 11th revision of the International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems (ICD-11) by the World health organisation

 

It would seem that Transgender is no longer going to be classed as a mental Disorder But a part of sexual health.  This has been ignored by many of the mainsteam media. Not sure why as its pretty big. Brace yourselfs.

 

Which of course will effect the way its diagnoised and  treated.

 

The WHO Serves most of the world and of course as it has been in the past has been adopted by the USA  in the form of parts of the DSM. I also think that your Mr Trump over there would jump on this as an excuse to make massive changes to the current policys and not for the better.

 

is the reclasification good or bad? It will effect our our NHS treats it and eventually how medical insurance all over the world will or will not cover it. I know little of health insurance but i would say that my assumption that unless you have a very special policy Sexual health would not be covered.

 

Indeed is it a mental disorder or part of sexual health?

 

The Whole agenda is set up to once again Merge Transsexual with Trangender. In Fact eradicate Transsexual Completly. We know Gender dysphoria is real. Its not fun or something to be played with.

By it being used this way will it no longer be seen the same.  They say it will stop harrasment. However I do not believe that the average person who wants to hate the trans is going to give two hoots about what the world health organisation says.

 

For further reading

 

Some more reading

 

this will eventually effect many should they decide to transition after 2022. or are still in the process of transition.

 

So for some of us who do see themselves as Transsexual and repectivlyTransgender or whatever term you want to use. To quote Bob Dylan The times they are a changing

 

Should we all be afraid of whats to come?

 

 

 

If this should be reclassified then there is a possibility that in time Hormones will be avaliable over the counter with no medical intervention. Just as you would by cream for crabs or such like.  Which to me is fundamentally wrong For me its a mental and biological condition and should be diagnoised and treated as such by medical profesionals and not self diagnoised. If that came to pass you would be playing a very deadly game.

 

Would you consider your status a mental disorder or a part of your sexual health?

 

Are they right or wrong? Is the current diagnoisis treatment method outdated?

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Regarding dysphoria as a mental illness couches being transgender as "sick", much the same way being gay was in older editions of the DSM, and not disregarding dysphoria's impact on mental health, but treating it under sexual health is one step up.

 

You're right that the people who are dead-set on hating trans folk will not stop what they're doing; they're in too deep to stop without looking foolish. And no one wants to appear foolish.

 

Making hormones as easy to acquire as something like paracetamol would be an entirely different piece of legislation with it's own different struggles, as mis-use is where the danger is. No matter how progressive society becomes, even if trans folk became country leaders, they will always be a controlled substance.

 

It happened with music and film: to beat (or at least diminish) a black market/underground business (like DIY hormones), you need to provide a superior service, and 3-5 year waiting lists in order to be ASSESSED for hormone suitability is just about the opposite of that.

 

My hope with this is that maybe drugs specifically for transition are eventually created and marketed: currently our doctors need to balance science & art in order to access the incidental side effects of medications intended for completely different reasons(!)

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I am sorry that I was not able to read all the above due to time constraints in the morning.

It was only at the time of my surgery that I was designated to have a mental illness , Gender Dysphoria.

Vancouver is quite different and gender diversity is seen as something to embrace by most people and the government.

Cheers Rachel

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Anything here in the U.S. even remotely connected to sexuality is going to have Cis people here in an uproar, so in that sector it will be another generation before this will have much effect there especially if our public education system rots  even further as it is doing just now.  The major U.S. medical and psychological organizations have come to the point of seeing that GD and treatment needs are not as extraordinary as they were thought to be even 20 years ago when I first came out. They are generally in line with the new WHO decision already.  Insurance and pharmacological companies are playing their games as usual, but with a broader market will still profit from us, just with different strategies.  Hormones are still a health issue that will dictate competent medical monitoring, but as the current generation of pharmacists dies out, it will help new ones to keep from questioning hormones prescribed for Michael as more appropriately being for Michelle. 

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Just now, Naomi Knowles said:

Regarding dysphoria as a mental illness couches being transgender as "sick", much the same way being gay was in older editions of the DSM, and not disregarding dysphoria's impact on mental health, but treating it under sexual health is one step up.

 

 

 

With Respect While i agree the DSM did had it wrong re homosexuality.My main concern is The diffrence between Being Trans and having Gender dysphoria. Its being all put into one box  The Medical internvention is life changing and once its having its effects its very much a one way street.

It scares me to think that the gate keepers so to speak will be absent with the gates open to people making the biggest mistake they can possibly make. I have a Biological and mental condition. I do not feel there is any stigma attached that. Unlike If you were Gay many years ago. I think being Gay is no compassion to being Transsexual/Transgender. I believe even a number of Gay people do not quite get why there is a G in LGBT

 

If you are not trans but think you are then get the diagnoises. Its there to stop the mistakes. Which we all know there are and have been in the past. You cannot not be the one who makes the diagnoises. Thats for the proffesionals.

 

Just now, Naomi Knowles said:

You're right that the people who are dead-set on hating trans folk will not stop what they're doing; they're in too deep to stop without looking foolish. And no one wants to appear foolish.

 

 

 

Haters are always going to hate. It doesnt matter about the facts.

 

Just now, Naomi Knowles said:

Making hormones as easy to acquire as something like paracetamol would be an entirely different piece of legislation with it's own different struggles, as mis-use is where the danger is. No matter how progressive society becomes, even if trans folk became country leaders, they will always be a controlled substance.

 

I hope your right. I for one would certainly not want to see Hormones handed out like sweets.

As I said. Life changing, No return. You get the idea ?

 

Just now, Naomi Knowles said:

It happened with music and film: to beat (or at least diminish) a black market/underground business (like DIY hormones), you need to provide a superior service, and 3-5 year waiting lists in order to be ASSESSED for hormone suitability is just about the opposite of that.

 

I definatly think we are going to agree to dissagre on that.

if the drug is already there then i would assume the drugs companys will charge about $10000 a pop for it.

As far as waiting times go. I think thats a good thing. By the time its your turn. I am sure you would have your mind made it. If its really what you want. Agreed that 3 years is a long time but if your serious then 3 years is a drop in the ocean compared to the rest of your life. Personally I waited 45 years before i was absolutly sure.

 

Just now, RACHEL GIA said:

Vancouver is quite different and gender diversity is seen as something to embrace by most people and the government.

 

Agreed Diversity should be embraced. But not with an incorrect diagnoises  when it comes to actual gender dysphoria.

You said you was not diagnoised until you was very mush toawald Surgery. May I ask how was the surgery option concluded without a diagnoisis? Im just curious how they concluded you needed surgery before the condition was established in the eyes of the doctors. Thats quite scary and proves my point regarding life changing. if i read it right. No going back from it realistically.

 

 

Just now, VickySGV said:

Hormones are still a health issue that will dictate competent medical monitoring, but as the current generation of pharmacists dies out, it will help new ones to keep from questioning hormones prescribed for Michael as more appropriately being for Michelle. 

 I do not think that it will effect anyone like us. Post transition. For want of a better word. But it does concern me with regard to the future generation.

 

 

 

 

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Just now, Maid In Bedlam said:

But it does concern me with regard to the future generation.

 

Six and a half years into HRT I did develop a Deep Vein Thrombosis (DVT) and while IN MY CASE it looks like some extended air travel and vehicle travel were the causes and not HRT specifically, the risk is the same for me as any Cis woman on HRT.  As long as those risks are present, I don't think that effective OTC / DIY  hormones are coming along.  I am aware of the Black Market hormone use in the community from being out and active as I am, and this site is continually getting people looking for those.  My personal hope and bright ray of sun on this is that doctors will prescribe sooner and with less expensive meds that they can monitor safely. 

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3 hours ago, Maid In Bedlam said:

 

As far as waiting times go. I think thats a good thing. By the time its your turn. I am sure you would have your mind made it. If its really what you want. Agreed that 3 years is a long time but if your serious then 3 years is a drop in the ocean compared to the rest of your life. Personally I waited 45 years before i was absolutly sure.

 

 

Your other points are fair, though I insist that waiting times can be a menace, and that professionally curated options should at least exist.

 

Not everyone is built to the same specification, everyone's struggle is slightly different and it's safe to say that it rarely begins as soon as someone joins the waiting list. My experience is by no means unique or special, and I know other people have experienced worse, but I'm one such individual where options saved my life.

 

Because a mixture of being scared & ashamed of my own feelings combined with other personal life-related reasons at the time that I don't yet feel comfortable sharing here, for the better part of 10 years, put me in an increasingly dangerous mental position. And as I was ignorant of how UK waiting lists are currently multi-year affairs until AFTER I willingly sought professional help, things would of ended very badly for me. I was fortunate that fear of THAT outcome managed to outweigh my previous fears enough for me to act.

 

 

DIY in order to preserve myself until the NHS was ready for me was a gamble I was not thrilled about, but I was spared that spectacularly risky option when I found GenderGP. Knowing that it would take months instead of years gave me hope, and was the right decision for me personally. A multi-year waiting list would of been my end, absolutely no hyperbole about that.

 

I flat-out refused that reality, an thanks to having that alternative option, I thrive and am no longer a danger to myself; that's victory enough for me?❤️

 

 

 

 

 

One thing I DO agree is about right is the waiting time & requirements for surgery:

 

 

MOST effects of HRT may slowly reverse over time, but invasive surgery is typically irreversible, and the patient really needs to give their body time to adjust and adapt to it's new conditions before a surgeon puts a knife to it.

 

A surgeon (private or state-funded) won't even think of considering you without a written endorsement from a psychiatrist that it is in your best interest, and at least 1 year spent on HRT, which given how life changing, painful & expensive it is, is more than fair really.

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I personally think that some people put too much thought into it. I’ve never really felt like it was my mind rebelling against my body, it’s just who I am. If anything my mind tried to suppress who I was. When I was younger and first aware of my transness, I never questioned it. It just felt correct. It only became an issue when other people inflicted judgement and I decided to suppress myself to avoid pain and to “survive”, but it only brought more pain. I suppose in that sense it could easily be mistaken for a mental disorder because it loosely shares certain characteristics with a mental disorder but it is much easier to remedy in most cases which totally separates it from the disorder category. For me dysphoria centers mainly around the nagging presence of body and facial hair, and other obvious male traits, those will diminish over time. Hormones and other things are there to help me feel more correct. The biggest part of it is how I am perceived by others with respect to how I feel I should be. Since that is something that can be achieved in time, and not just all in my head, it’s definitely not a mental disorder. 

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Im just going to say this. Not as part of this debate but as a small amount of LOOK AT ME.

 

When I posted this. The BBC had not shown any interest in the subject at all. There was nothing on there website

I look today and theres a big article concerning this subject. Ill link at the bottom.

 

So I can draw some conclusion. Either I influence the BBC in my poorly grammed posts. The BBC take note from sites like this in there content. Or The one i like to think is more correct. I am  Social Media Influencer. which seems to be the buzz career choice for the trendys. I quite like the latter. Its going on my CV anyway ?

 

BBC Link here

 

I will now have delusions of grandure all day. Its my mind and i can think as i like ?

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Personally, I take comfort in the narrative I tell myself about my gender dysphoria that it's a disorder of some kind. I don't know if I would consider it a mental disorder specifically, but I consider the hormones I take to be my medication and the surgeries I'm pursuing as corrective treatments. I don't think being trans in and of itself is a disorder in any way, but when gender dysphoria is intense enough that it interferes with daily functioning as mine does, I think that would classify it as some kind of a disorder that needs treatment, treatment for me being transition since it's the only thing that eases the mental anguish I feel on a daily basis.

 

I understand the goal of reducing the stigma around being transgender or experiencing gender dysphoria by removing its status as a disorder, but feel like that particular solution is built on the completely separate problem that so many people consider mental disorders something to stigmatize in the first place. People shouldn't be stigmatizing mental disorders at all. Everyone I'm close to has had some form of a mental disorder; depression, ADHD, an eating disorder, anxiety, etc. and they deserve compassion for these challenges, not shame and stigma. There is a huge problem across the globe of people with disorders, mental or otherwise, being treated with shame and stigma instead of compassion, and I think removing the mental disorder classification of gender dysphoria for the sole purpose of reducing the social stigma around it implicitly affirms that mental disorders should be stigmatized because it says that we specifically shouldn't be stigmatized like everyone else is, and that reclassification does very little to actually help us as it can be used to deny us the treatment that some of our lives depend on. To me, it feels like one step forward and two steps back.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Again i have to work but in answer to your question

Quote

You said you was not diagnoised until you was very mush toawald Surgery. May I ask how was the surgery option concluded without a diagnoisis?

It was a box on the form that the nurse was filing out just prior to surgery in which she asked me if I had a mental illness.

I could not think of any and she sort of said 'oh you are gender dysphoric so we will put down that".

Up until that time I had never been treated in any way that I had had a mental disorder and even then it was no biggie.

At the time of my intake into the transgender program in BC I told my story say I was Gender Dysphoric since I was 9 and wanted to transition since I was 13. Perhaps my story was such that the intake nurse brought in another health care pro and I was moved along quite rapidly to see a doctor later that spring.

I have never seen a shrink, phsychologist, or been required to talk to a gender councellor and gender dysphoric is what I am but it only shows itself now when I don't shave my arm hairs or wear the wrong clothes. 

Although my posts count may be single digit on this forum I have been on the forum for longer than I have been sober which is 12 years. I needed a break after my surgery or perhaps a reset so had my profile deleted.

Most of the guidance and support that kept me sane, came from this forum and other support points of contact with other trans people.

Being dysphoric and untreated or even obsessed can be a very bad combination and 2 weeks ago I was talking with a friend about how dangerous it is to hang your mental health on your transition . 20 minutes later got a call from a another friend that a transwoman had died. She was the unnamed transwoman I was referring to in the conversation.

Stay safe and settle into this ride which is 100 percent worth it.

Much Love Rachel

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36 minutes ago, RACHEL GIA said:

It was a box on the form that the nurse was filing out just prior to surgery in which she asked me if I had a mental illness.

I could not think of any and she sort of said 'oh you are gender dysphoric so we will put down that".

 

In doing that the nurse was actually was practicing medicine without a license.  What she did was in opposition to the most accurate medical guidelines and diagnostic standards in place today.  It was medical malpractice that could have hurt you.

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I think it was quite ok and since I don't look at my medical records , I really don't know what they say.

My transition doctor always asked me how my dysphoria was when I visited and since everything was written down I am sure it says Gender Dysphoric somewhere. 

Alcoholism could have been put down as in some circles and as of around 11 years ago it is considered a mental/medical issue.

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There seems to be some concern in my path to being approved for surgery but I assure you that it was a long time from the time of my intake to having my needs met.

In fact it was longer than normal and I don't think any of the professionals that I was involved with were lacking in either care or concern for health and lifestyle afterwards.

I got fast tracked in both my intake date and surgery date because others cancelled for their own reasons but everything else was long which is quite typical of this life choice.

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As was brought up in a thread a few years ago , the best thing I can do to remove the stigma that may still surround trans folks is to be openly trans in society when and where it is safe and to be a good person.

 

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As I watched my daughters grow up, I became painfully aware in our community, it was socially fashionable for teens to have depression and anxiety.  If you were anybody at school you had to claim both of these conditions.  I found it sad what I had grown up seeing as a detriment and tragic being worn as a badge of social status.  There was a sort of social contagion going around with depression and anxiety.

 

I think it is likely in our current climate being trans for some unknown number of people is a matter of social contagion, and lacks the serious introspective consideration it deserves.  I think I fear most for our youth who are, in increasing numbers, coming out as trans with 'sudden onset gender dysphoria,' and making dramatic decisions, with no practical assay of their mental ability to make such decisions.  I would hate for people to suffer the consequences of short-sighted decision making and the potential damage to the image of trans as a treatment for gender dysphoria due to mass de-transitions and stories of transgender fails fueling the confirmation bias of our detractors.

 

Please, don't misunderstand me.  I don't feel qualified to set any bar for what is trans or not.  I don't want to be the gatekeeper, nor judge when someone is right for transition.  I still found it alarming I was offered an HRT letter after a single hour session of therapy.  It seems the pendulum has swung too far the other way from the days of waiting 18 months or two years to start HRT.  I do feel gender dysphoria is a mental disorder, and one I would not wish upon my enemies, and I do not agree with a society where people are self-diagnosed to receive medical treatment.

 

This is a complex issue, and one for which I don't have near all the answers.  What I do know is there must be some sort of middle ground between the simplistic mindsets of "all trans people are sickos that should be locked up" and "anythings goes."  We live in a society with people smart enough to turn one kind of genitals into another, I think we should put that brain power into finding some sort of process which helps people who need transitional therapy get it, while discouraging those who are too driven by the emotions of the moment to make clear considered decisions.

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3 hours ago, michelle_kitten said:

 

 

I think it is likely in our current climate being trans for some unknown number of people is a matter of social contagion, and lacks the serious introspective consideration it deserves.  I think I fear most for our youth who are, in increasing numbers, coming out as trans with 'sudden onset gender dysphoria,' and making dramatic decisions, with no practical assay of their mental ability to make such decisions.  I would hate for people to suffer the consequences of short-sighted decision making and the potential damage to the image of trans as a treatment for gender dysphoria due to mass de-transitions and stories of transgender fails fueling the confirmation bias of our detractors.

 

 

 Agree strongly with you Michelle

this is just one reason why we still need strong Gatekeepers. transsexual and Transgender are very diffrent However More and more lines are blurred with the intention of Justification for social contagion.  This is i think one of the reasons why the classification is being changed. So it makes it easier. But the question I ask is Why? Being transsexual. is not a fetish that we grow out of. Im am guessing many people who now see themselves as transgender in 20 years time will consider it Just a part of growing up which they have grown out of. because it was trendy at the time. I could list many examples of social trends that have now ceased to be. What really does scare me is. Should it be made easier to pass the gatekeepers with little or no quesioning how many who did regard it as a fashion trend and have manged to recieve unchangable treatment would then be in a life they no longer are happy with because someone did not stop  them from doing anything life changing. Its going to be a scary world. taking hormones which plays for many a large part of the treatment for this has side effects which last till your passing. Surgery. Well that is not reversable.  All the reclassification does is just make this process stremlined. Which for someone like me who does and will live as who i am for the rest of my life be happy and forfilled. But thats because I have or have had Gender dysphoria. I did not think i had and it went away when it became not part of the in crowd.

I always do wonder If I am one of the odd ones. I wanted to live my life as a normal woman. Never seen or heard as Trans. Which is how i live my life. Im very happy with my world because of the fact that none of my piers, Freinds or people i interact with everyday day would regard me any diffrent than being that woman. I always considered thats what my condition was. To live as a woman and be happy with what i have achieved and will achieve as the woman and not regarded as the trans person. That was my ultimate goal and that is what i have inspired to be. This is how I defeated my dysphoria. Im now just a woman that once suffered trans issues but im better now.

4 hours ago, michelle_kitten said:

 

This is a complex issue, and one for which I don't have near all the answers.  What I do know is there must be some sort of middle ground between the simplistic mindsets of "all trans people are sickos that should be locked up" and "anythings goes."  We live in a society with people smart enough to turn one kind of genitals into another, I think we should put that brain power into finding some sort of process which helps people who need transitional therapy get it, while discouraging those who are too driven by the emotions of the moment to make clear considered decisions.

 

Yes very complex We do need something else but the path we are on now could quite be a path of destuction of the lives of many .

Change is needed. But not making it easier. making it harder to recieve hormones etc. The tried and test saying is "if you want something bad enough you will make it happen if you try " Sadly this will be falling by the wayside. handed to you on a plate with no effort is not a healthy way to go for the human race.  especially when you are dealing with life changing desions on a whimm.

 

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      Good evening everyone,   I don't think my mother ever cooked a meal that I didn't like. We also had a kitchen where mom fixed the food, dad filled your plate, and you eat it. It wasn't until our baby brother was born that we could have Pop-Tarts for snacks. Before that all snacks had to meet mom's approval, and in her opinion wouldn't prevent you from eating supper.   Well my day started off on a good note, but has become frustrating because my IT person didn't transfer my saved videos I use for teaching. Then I found out that they didn't save any of my book marks for websites I use frequently.   Best wishes, stay motivated,   Mindy🌈🐛🏳️‍⚧️🦋
    • MaeBe
      The number is relative to method of deliver, the time of the dose, and when the blood is drawn. However, I do want to keep away from DVT and other potential issues. I assume I may be getting backed down from my current dose, but my doc told me to stick with the higher dose, so? I also wonder if this has anything to do the my breast growth and mental changes that have been happening over the past few years, like I have some estrogen sensitivity so a little goes a long way or something? I don't have enough data to postulate, but who knows!   With weekly, subcutaneous, shots you expect to see big swings of serum level estradiol from shot to peak to trough. My doctor is interested in mid-week testing (for E and T levels only), which would be post-peak blood serum levels but they will be higher than trough. Most, if not all, resources I've seen online is to measure at trough (which I might do just to do it next time) along with a SHBG, LH, and other metrics.   This is from transfemscience.org for Estradiol valerate in oil, which is very spiky compared to some other estradiol combinations. It's also for intramuscular, which will have a slower uptake and is usually dosed in higher volume due to the slower absorption rate from muscles. They don't have subcutaneous numbers, which I would expect to see similar spikes but higher levels at similar doses due to the relatively higher absorption rate direct from fat.   Are you doing pills, shots, or patches? And when you do get your levels checked are you getting that done when your levels are lowest or some other time?
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