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NB Adult

What Makes Non-Binary A Good Fit For You?

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NB Adult

I'm curious to know the reasons you have for believing a Non-Binary presentation is best for you. 

As for me, I started transitioning and was on estrogen and Spironolactone by 1996, was surgically castrated shortly afterward and backed out of my SRS date with Dr. Marcie Bowers. I'd had some kind of epiphany based on multiple factors. Before discussing those factors I'd like to hear from others from both ends of the spectrum to see how much we actually share in common.

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Jackie C.

I don't think a non-binary presentation would work for me. I know and have known non-binary individuals in the past. They are all wonderful people. I have another friend since middle school who identifies as dual-gendered. She likes being able to flip back and forth between genders. I present as female.

 

I imagine it's a comfort thing. I feel most at home presenting as a woman. Rob/Jenny feels comfortable presenting as one or the other. Molly just prefers to be themselves.

 

For me there's a little voice in my head... not literally, obviously... that says, "No no, the gender needle is supposed to be HERE." I don't dress especially femme. I prefer jeans and a t-shirt. I like my hair long. Minimal makeup (mostly because I'm rubbish at applying it). I'll get more dolled up for special occasions. I'm usually wearing some form of hair ornament, but unless it's a special occasion that's the beginning and end of my jewelry. Sometimes I wear clothes with sparkles on them. It's hard to feel anything but happy when you sparkle.

 

I don't think I'd feel comfortable in the middle like you do. It doesn't feel like me. I suppose it comes down to everybody being a little different. You have to figure out what's right for you and then grab it with both hands. You just need to be yourself.

 

Hugs!

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NB Adult

An honest comment based on self introspection, good one Jackie!

 

Personally I've taken a lot of flak in the past from TG women who were all ???? and I could hardly blame them. In the end I decided that I didn't want to get too far into bed from the side I had entered as it would conflict too heavily with family, personal interests and other friends and associates that I didn't wish to alienate from my life over this inner drive that we all have. I'm married to a lovely lady who is a clothes horse and the ultimate shopper girl, anyone looking in her closet would think she's a millipede. Then there are purses, jewelry and all the necessary accessories to be stylish, and remaining that way is costly. Then the cosmetics, salon and hair color. I balked at all that, no it wasn't the direction I wanted to go in the long run. UP front was going to be GRS and  FFS, would have been extensive and costly. In the final analysis I decided to be at peace in my skin and ride out my years as a rather androgynous but happily chicken -crap- non-binary individual.

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Jackie C.

That's really all there is to it. So long as you're comfortable in your own skin, it's all good. It hasn't been that long since I realized that if I didn't embrace who I was, I wasn't going to last a lot longer. I needed to do what made me comfortable and was right for me. I've met people who recruit, but it's not really in my nature to cajole anyone into doing anything. All I can really do is be the best me I can be and answer questions sincerely asked.

 

I have had people tell me I was the most laid-back trans person they'd ever met. I don't know about that, but therapy and embracing who I am on the inside have left me with a certain serenity. I'm not saying I can't be riled up. It's happened. But I used to be an angry and miserable human being. I found what's right for me. It's obviously not right for everyone, but it's what I need to be happy. I plan to proceed with GRS in February. I am both giddy and terrified in equal measure. There are risks. I embrace them. I'm not sure I really NEED FFS. I've got killer cheekbones and a nice smile. I'd like to shave my jaw a little given unlimited money, but it's not terrible and I'd like to keep surgery to the minimum. Besides, I'm not classically pretty, but I love the girl that looks back at me in the mirror every morning. That's plenty.

 

I'm married to a wonderful (and accepting) woman too. While neither of us are "clothes horses" there have been a few good-natured arguments over closet space. We're thinking about turning the guest bedroom into a walk-in closet. We never have sleep over guests anymore, but we do have clothes hanging on every door upstairs.That doesn't solve the problem with the shoe rack in the mudroom though. I may need to add another shelf if I want to be able to put my cute boots up when they get soggy. There's also this lovely pair of flats (I don't wear heels, I'm tall enough) I was looking at...

 

I definitely think I'd miss the emotional connections though. There's no way I could go back to feeling things like a male. I'm firing on all cylinders with the hormone treatments. It would probably break me if I had to give that up. I am NOT looking forward to January (if you were unaware, I need to stop hormones for four weeks before GRS and one week after). I don't really care for boy-me at all.

 

Then again, I'm terrible at being a boy. I can fake it, barely... well, I could fake it. All the learned "boy" behaviors fell off pretty quickly when I started transitioning. For example, there's a bunch of female voice markers that I was doing anyway so I'm probably atypical. What's typical for a trans-woman though? We're all different.

 

I guess, that's the rambling point I'm trying to make. We're all different. We need to do what makes us happy and makes us comfortable to be ourselves. It doesn't matter if that thing is male, female, both, neither or squid. When you're happy with who you are, and you love yourself your inner light shines though.

 

Hugs!

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NB Adult

I enjoyed reading this Jackie, you are all girl and exceptionally normal in every way and also in the direction you are headed with your transition. I wouldn't worry about FFS, you have a very nice face, great smile and indeed yes your cheekbones are excellent and what many genetic females could only wish for. I wouldn't worry about the chin either, overall your face is very nice as women's faces go. It's better to fit in rather than be outstanding and drop-dead gorgeous, you wouldn't want to garner all that attention, especially from other women who would survey every inch of you with a critical and discerning eye out of sheer jealousy. Not what you want.

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Jani

I think the point is we need not worry about others as this is our life.  Thankfully today we can live as we wish (depending upon where you live I guess) and be happy.   Once we stop worrying about how others think is the day we truly are free.  Doing what makes us happy is key!  

 

@Jackie C.  This is great news.  I guess I hadn't picked up on your upcoming date.  Interestingly my surgeon only required 2 weeks of down time.  I took spiro up to the day before.  Make sure you ramp up back up slowly over a week or so.  I experienced wicked hot flashes and anxiety by going back to full dose after I was cleared by my doctor.  

 

Jani

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NB Adult

Yeah Jani, My endo says the Estrogen stays in your system in a gradually declining level for a few weeks after getting off of it. I quit entirely and six months later there was still some present according to the labs, probably all that was stored in fatty tissues.

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jody

hi

non binary for me is a god send in that I had huge body dysmorphia. problem is im 6"2 and have many male characteristics..i started to approach my problems late in life( 51) and at first seemed to make things worse and worse,i walked away from it so many times..the problem was and I don't mean any disrespect to anyone but the initial just transition to female would have made me look wrong...for my transgender and another issue my docs put me on antiandrogen injections and over the next year things calmed down..i stopped the ideas of ill do all this in 6 months ect ect ect and with the testosterone gone I calmed down and decided to give things time not really actively doing much else..i mentioned estrogen ect to my doc but he said just let things progress..to cut a long story short since then my body has softened and gone curvey,my breasts have well they show as breasts and I tuck all the time and its very convincing even the nurse at a clinic I go to asked have u had the grs?.the male bits became redundant for the most part the testicles back up where they started ect ect ecct..so what happened over the few years is my main body semi transitioned its self but the likes of my face although softened still has its male looks.. I see myself as the definition of non binary as in a mixture of male and female features. people do look and wonder but im used to that..some do ask and all I tell them is im a transman transitioning back a bit. funny that seems to satisfy them...my next goal is for grs. I was gona have surgical castration first but the things are small and hide away like good little balls lol. for me grs will finish the body transition and ill be happy with that, although there is what the body does by its self which up to press ive liked a lot..as a side line from my experience and as countless others on here have said it all takes time..u cant rush it in fact time is ur best friend..dont think drugs are always the magic answer, my doc says that maybe if he had given low does hormones I might be a bit further on but he wasn't convinced. he is of the belief that less can deliver the same results as more. one of the other things ive learnt is u have to be prepared to compromise. u may want to be a glamour model but have realistic goals. I myself knew core body wize what I wanted and ive not regreted one bit of it,the outer bits tag along behind.. for me non binary fits me to a t...

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NB Adult

We can relate on a lot of levels and though I'm only 5' 7" my chest structure, specifically the rib cage would be more fitting on someone 6' 5". I tried on a dress once and almost died laughing, the effect was definitely not pretty and I knew then, along with a lot of other factors that I was wasting my time transitioning fully MtF. 

 

Having been on estrogen for quite some time, by the time I had my orchiectomy the gonads had all but disappeared and looked like two worms that had each swallowed a BB. I'm happy and well adjusted right where I am now. 

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jody

Now my life is a bit more on track im exploring grs..they do what they class as a cosmetic one which is less intrusive..having been on antiandrogen for so long my gonads are very small..even if grs doesn't happen I want orch simply as means no more antiandrogen plus its a psychological thing for me I want the male bits gone.  like u say u have to be happy where u get too..its funny but the clothes side of it was never an interest as such ive always been a jeans and t shirt girl but as the body softened and curved I found myself wearing non fashion womens jeans ect..I think as you become more confident with urself in ur chosen role then things come more natural.one piece of advice id have is for mtf don't rush into it head first id get on even a mild antiandrogen and let it do its thing as when ur testosterone goes u might have a different outlook on things. at least these days here int the uk they have relaxed all the requirements for grs.wasnt that long ago they expected you to dress like an old fashioned head mistress lol...

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NB Adult

I prefer jeans and T-shirts too, besides many of the genetic females here dress the same during their casual time off work. You are so right about not rushing transition. Once on estrogen your brain and your thinking takes a hard turn to the female side and frankly it's emotionally very addicting. The cosmetic grs you speak of is interesting, it would be my preferred way to proceed if I was so driven because I rather doubt I'd ever be interested in having sex with a male, not that I slight any of the ladies here who would wish otherwise, it just doesn't appeal to me but the cosmetic aspect of what you said most certainly does.

 

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tracy_j

I suppose my most usual presentation is non-binary as I tend to dress in non-descript clothing like leggings but usually have a tunic or short plain skirt to cover my modesty (and any bulge). It's not often I wear jeans but do have some. I plan to try a pair of high waisted but have not got there yet. I have just bought some new ankle boots for winter and they would look good with jeans so now would be a good time. That said, it is always female. I do like to dress far more feminine when going out somewhere more special though. It's often interesting when I look in a mirror though as I have a tendency to wear black. With my close fitting clothes I do wonder as I look a bit like the security guy I found climbing down out of the roofspace when entering my room early one morning at work. This was prior to a royal visit so I suspect Special Branch (he looked like SAS without the mask and well fit! LOL). Luckily I am fairly slim so close fitting clothes work, but it does hint at androgyne whether or not I plan it.

 

Tracy

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jody

here in the uk a few years ago when I looked into grs the "cosmetic" version is offered as a less invasive version of grs..as I understood it it doesn't involve any formation of a vagina internally so by far reducing the risk involved with that part of the op..u still get the rest,labia,clit ect which is still invasive but far less risk..i do wonder int his day and age how long it will be before such things are available as "cosmetic" surgery without all the jumping through hoops we have now..lets face it I could have boob implants,bum implants, face lift ect ect ect as off the shelf just pay for it surgery...like so many women here end up traveling abroad for the availability....

 

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Jackie C.

Ah, to live in the UK... or anywhere civilized really. Here in the states you get to jump through hoops to qualify, but somehow both procedures (and orchidectomy) in all their forms are still classified as "cosmetic surgery" so your insurance doesn't have to pay out for them. So... worst of both worlds I guess.

 

Hugs!

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NB Adult

I suspect that all but a few US insurers consider it all "Cosmetic" and base their argument on the fact that nothing so far can change a person's DNA, not that it would really matter to any one of us here other than the fact that the insurers have deep pockets and are evading the cost of a healthcare service that would mean so much to many.

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jody

how much is an orch op over there..

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NB Adult

Back when I had mine I paid $700 USD, should have gone to a veterinarian for  a cheapie! I think they are well over a thousand by now.

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jody

it is funny.i live in a rural village and round here the vet does castrations in the fields and I think its around £50....the private clinics seem to lay on the costs..when I was young I had vasectomy which is dam close to castration and it cost me £25,was a 15 min op under local anaesthetic ..the private clinics here seem to have inflated an orch to major surgery requiring general anaesthetic,a full theatre team and nights in the hospital!!!..funny as the nhs hospital say its a 20 mins op under local anaesthetic and day surgery.

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Jackie C.

There's a guy over here that will do an orchidectomy with an Informed Consent form which is my only real experience. It probably varies with your location, but he still wants $10,000 US. My GRS will cost $25,000 not counting hotel stays, meals and transportation (I have to go out of state).

 

The vasectomy was cheaper, but that was still about $200-250 US in 1994. It was more than twenty years ago, I don't remember exactly. I do remember that the numbing agent being released into my femoral artery was one of the most intense pains I'd ever enjoyed in my life. I think it took about a half-hour.

 

Also, castration in the fields is very, very different than castration on humans. The structures are not anchored and nourished the same way. Not remotely. I grew up with a large animal vet as my egg donor. I tried to "correct the problem" myself a couple of times starting in late grade school/junior high. I'd seen it done hundreds of times, I could handle it, right? Long story short, I could not. That was a very, very bad idea. Didn't do any permanent damage, but I could have. I got very lucky.

 

Hugs!

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Jackie C.

I should clarify. Full depth vaginoplasty is $17000 with my surgeon. The remaining $8000 is hospital fees. A cosmetic vaginoplasty is $10000 here, but I don't know what the hospital fees are. The urologist that will do the orchidectomy here is $10000 complete and he does it in his office. A nice jar as apparently included.

 

Hugs!

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jody

10 grand for castration..gawd im in the wrong trade....

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Jackie C.

Less the cost of the really nice jar. The person I talked to said the doctor's assistant actually did most of the work under his guidance. You're right though, even if he only keeps half of that, it's more than what most people make in a month.

 

Hugs!

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NB Adult

Kind of ridiculous really, the urologist did a local on me and I was in and out of his OR in less than 45 minutes.

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Jackie C.

It could be because he's the only guy in town ... or the state as near as I can tell ... that will do it with just the Informed Consent form. I suppose it could be worth it to someone if they're having trouble meeting the WPATH requirements. I didn't, but my experience is just my experience. I could be atypical. Two notes from specialists wasn't all that difficult (for me anyway). Again though, that's just me.

 

Oh, I don't know if there's a hormone requirement for an orchi. Maybe if you didn't want to go on ... I guess it would be just T-suppression therapy ... for a year. Spiro isn't that expensive though, even with my crap insurance ... OK, I'm floundering. Does anyone this hits closer to home for have an idea as to why you'd want to pay ten grand to get your orchi without a hassle? I'm obviously baffled, but that wasn't a surgery I was considering so I'm a little lost in the tall grass.

 

Hugs!

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NB Adult

No way would I pay 10K for something that is such a simple procedure. 10K is half the cost of a complete vaginoplasty which is extremely intrusive as opposed to a castration. I had a letter from my counselor and another from my endocrinologist, Dr. Bowers said I was good to go anytime for GRS at our consult, but I opted out.  

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