Refusing to date trans people is transphobic?

[Lucca]

This is the one widely held tenet of pro-trans ideology that really bothers me: the idea that it's transphobic to not want to date a trans person. There are inappropriate ways to express this, obviously, but as long as the person is reasonably respectful, I don't think this is a problem.

 

1, it's a simple fact that genitals affect how you can have sex. If you want to have standard penetrative sex, you can't have that with two penises or two vaginas. Personally, when I was using dating apps as a man, before I knew I was trans, I skipped over all the trans women I saw. This was not because I was grossed out or thought they were unattractive, but just because penis-in-vagina sex is what I wanted at the time, and I knew it was rude to ask if they'd had SRS or not. I'd still prefer for my sexual partners to have vaginas, though not as strongly as I used to. I'm not comfortable with this preference being read as bigotry, especially since I ended up realizing I was trans less than a year after I really started trying to find a date for the first time in my life. (I'm a late bloomer, romantically speaking, but that's a story for another time.)

 

2, I find that there are some creepy undertones of entitlement to the idea, albeit ones that I think are unintentioned.  What other group of people gets away with insisting that it's offensive to not want to have sex with them? Leftists typically don't let cishet men act like they're entitled to sex with people who have rejected them, even if they were rejected for inherent features like height or skin color.

 

3, This labelling of the non-trans/post-op-only preference as transphobia is the number one grievance I see being aired by people who aren't supportive of trans rights, some of whom cite it as the tipping point for when they stopped supporting trans rights entirely. Since I already don't buy the idea in the first place, I find it doubly frustrating that it's apparently causing collateral damage to trans rights beyond just my own personal annoyance.

 

 

I don't want to ruffle any feathers, and I'm sure that plenty of people here have unpleasant experiences with people rejecting them in offensive ways. But I just have to get this off my chest, even if not everyone will agree with me.

[tracy_j]

My own personal view in these 'politically correct' times is that some people almost complain about any view. I believe that it is not 'phobic' to restrict oneself for or against a relationship with any person, as such, but is to voice opinion in the effort, intentional or not, to influence others.

 

Tracy

[SaraAW]

People like or are attracted to who or what they are attracted to. I have no issue with this, as long as they are not harming others in the process. 
 

We all have preferences for everything in our lives, such as food, art, clothing, and people, to name a few. Some people are more open to experience and others are self-limiting. For those that are limiting themselves, that’s their loss. 

Where I do have an issue, is that a lot of personal preferences are driven culturally and through media. When there is hate and false information being spread to foster alienation, I do get upset. 

 

All though trans is it not new, in lots of areas, it’s new in the level of openness and understanding for a lot of people. It takes time for things to become accepted en masse. Given time and awareness efforts,  trans will likely become more accepted and likely more people will consider dating trans people. This doesn’t help us now, I get it, but it does give me some hope I’ll see it in my lifetime. 
 

 

[Jackie C.]

I suppose it COULD be considered transphobic if the sole reason you're refusing to "swipe right" is that the person in question is trans. If you're otherwise attracted to them, why wouldn't you give it a chance? The compatible genitals thing is kind of a non-issue for me. It might have mattered more when I was younger, but there are plenty of work-arounds if you have a little creativity and a desire to please your partner. I probably don't have to tell anyone here, but there are more ways to "have sex" than what they taught you about in sex-ed. As far as I'm concerned, if everybody had a good time and gets to climax, the evening was a rousing success.

 

It's not very transphobic though. More... I don't know, ignorant? I think it goes back to, "Oh, that's really a man," thinking. We're getting past that, but it's a big leap for the older generation. What constitutes the older generation varies by region. Some places are more progressive than others.

 

I don't like the idea of hiding it either... but that seems like something that I also don't have to reveal right away. If things look like they're getting to the point where it could be an issue (hey, I'm a good girl, I don't put out on the first date) then your partner should be informed. Though in my case, I look like a log with breasts glued on so I can't imagine a prospective partner wouldn't at least suspect.

 

So yeah, I guess the problem is that we're not in a great spot as far as our acceptance by society. It makes it hard for us to find a love connection because prejudice, cultural artifacts and propaganda from a certain segment of the population. It's not fair. It strongly curtails our ability to find happiness with another human. We have to deal with it though. At least it's better now than it was twenty years ago, right?

 

Hugs!

[ToniTone]

I agree with Lucca on all points. And would add that disclosing one's identity as trans would be in their best interest I believe, even if they are passing and/or post op. I say that primarily for safety. But also for acceptance, for ourselves and from others. There's that population that wants to deny they are trans, and I think it's healthy to accept that about ones self. 

 

~Toni

[Michelle F]

Hmmm...

 

Interesting topic. My fiance´ is bottom Gay and is considering transitioning now as well. I count myself lucky because there is no animosity or rejection whatsoever

 

Of course living in Palm Springs helps being that it is a predominantly gay society to begin with.

[Lucca]

It's just, I can't think of anything that would irritate me more or make me more uncomfortable than someone telling me I had to want to have sex with them or else I'm morally wrong.

[TommieAnne]

55 minutes ago, Lucca said:

It's just, I can't think of anything that would irritate me more or make me more uncomfortable than someone telling me I had to want to have sex with them or else I'm morally wrong.

I can't say I disagree.

After all, if coercing someone into having sex is viewed as rape, then how would it be different forcing/coercing someone to begin dating a person they don't feel attraction to?

The heart loves who/what it loves. Labeling someone phobic over those choices doesn't make it better.

I'm open to being with anyone I'm attracted to, regardless of gender. I'm not open to being with someone I'm not attracted to, regardless of their gender nomenclature or equipment.

[VickySGV]

Transphobia comes in when the person decides sight unseen that they would never consider a Trans person as a viable dating option and when they find themselves attracted to a Trans person becomes violent toward the Trans person from personal disgust and self loathing.  It is the reasoning behind the decision. 

 

I do get a feeling of disgust at the idea that "Dating" is actually a euphemism for SEX.  Maybe I am too old, but Dating was a way of getting to know a person intellectually and emotionally long before SEX entered the picture.  I Dated many people with the idea of having companionship and enjoyment of common interests, and only Dated people for those reasons.  I buy dinner or show tickets for many friends whom I have no sexual interest in although some hand holding and a hug or two are welcome with boundaries we both honor. 

[NB Adult]

Vicky is so right about that! Dating to me was really just a means of initiating a possible friendship which is usually established once the other party began to see me as non threatening and a nice person to spend time with. The question of a possible sexual relationship, if at all, might come much later based on IF all the emotional factors between two people mutually click. 

[TommieAnne]

I'm afraid we old folks have been dragged into the age of "hooking up."

??

[NB Adult]

43 minutes ago, TammyAnne said:

I'm afraid we old folks have been dragged into the age of "hooking up."

??

 

No hookups for this old kid, my better half would make it very expensive for me.

[Dana Michelle]

I don't think it is necessarily transphobic to not want to date transgender people, and I also have concern that those who argue it is transphobic might be provoking people to become transphobic, and can make the rest of us look bad.

I think it makes sense why some transgender people feel it is transphobic, in that peoples' preferences can make it hard to find someone. So even though I don't agree with them, I see where they are coming from.

I've seen discussions online where people were discussing dating preferences (about transgender people and also other preferences) where they say that it is not prejudice to have preferences, but is prejudice to say they will *never* date someone who is a certain way. I don't know what to think about this but I thought I'd put it out there.

 

On 11/11/2019 at 11:42 PM, tracy_j said:

My own personal view in these 'politically correct' times is that some people almost complain about any view.

 

I strongly agree with this.

 

 

[Miss Linnea]

I would say that it does get transphobic if: 

 

1. They say they will never date a trans person because "trans is an abomination" and "that's a man." 

2. They get violent out of disgust after finding out the truth. 

 

But not if it's simply about preference. 

[Robin68]

I don't seem to have any difficulty dating a trans. It doesn't follow from this that I am attracted to any trans. Just like my attraction to women means only certain women and my attraction to men means only certain men, I can be intensely attracted to certain trans and not others. As I've gotten older, I've been more drawn to certain trans and men and less so to women. I also was much more transphobic when I was younger. I think dispelling this has been part and parcel of finding self-acceptance.

[ShawnaLeigh]

I personally do not like to label anyone based on there likes and dislikes or their personal choices.  Not having a desire to date a transgender person is a personal choice not a phobia in my opinion.

I would not have a problem dating a transgender person and the jury is out for which sex they have chosen to be if I must be honest.  (yes I know this is new for me)

It is more important to me on the level of connection that exists up front and the potential to grow that is between me and whomever I may be interested in.

 

[Dana Michelle]

A transgender woman once responded to someone saying that it is always OK to say no to sex, by saying that it is bigotry to not have sex because they are transgender. I think that was extremely inappropriate in that context. The person who said it is OK to deny sex probably did not even have transgender people in mind but was thinking about cis/hetero men pressuring women to have sex.

[Robin68]

2 hours ago, Dana Michelle said:

A transgender woman once responded to someone saying that it is always OK to say no to sex, by saying that it is bigotry to not have sex because they are transgender. I think that was extremely inappropriate in that context

I agree that it is extremely inappropriate. To me, it also seems almost coercive and shaming. It is a very odd declaration. Does she really welcome and expect absolutely anyone to pursue her? Somehow I doubt it.  

[michelle_kitten]

I've heard this notion before saying people who refuse to date a trans person are transphobic.  It seems to me a ploy to use a sense of guilt to get someone to go out with you/have sex with you.  I certainly wouldn't want to date someone against their will.  It just seems like a recipe for complete disaster.  This is why I love being Ace.  There is no pressure to find someone.  Life is totally more simple being Ace.

 

I have to confess, since starting HRT some men seem cute to me.  I think that has a lot to do with the changes I've experienced emotionally.  Like I totally react much stronger to babies and kittens and cute stuff like that than I ever did before.  I find myself more delighted by personalities than anything physical in guys.  There is a huge difference between finding someone cute, and wanting to get involved with them romantically, or sexually.

 

I don't think it is transphobic at all to not want to date a trans person, in most cases.  I think it is a preference or not.

[Dana Michelle]

Even though I don't think it is automatically transphobic to not want to date transgender people, I do think the way people say it can be transphobic. For example, someone on YouTube has made videos about how she won't date transgender women where she is giving the finger in the thumbnail. I think using a hostile gesture like that while talking about not wanting to date transgender people is transphobic. Also, I think it is transphobic to talk excessively about how they don't want to date transgender people.

[SaraAW]

Attraction is something that varies for all of us.  As long as it is coming from this and not from a place of fear or hate, there's nothing transphobic about it.  Forcing or attempting to convince others to follow your preference is transphobic or phobic of any other preference that differs from theirs.