Jump to content
  • Welcome to the TransPulse Forums!

    We offer a safe, inclusive community for transgender and gender non-conforming folks, as well as their loved ones, to find support and information.  Join today!

Refusing to date trans people is transphobic?


Lucca

Recommended Posts

This is the one widely held tenet of pro-trans ideology that really bothers me: the idea that it's transphobic to not want to date a trans person. There are inappropriate ways to express this, obviously, but as long as the person is reasonably respectful, I don't think this is a problem.

 

1, it's a simple fact that genitals affect how you can have sex. If you want to have standard penetrative sex, you can't have that with two penises or two vaginas. Personally, when I was using dating apps as a man, before I knew I was trans, I skipped over all the trans women I saw. This was not because I was grossed out or thought they were unattractive, but just because penis-in-vagina sex is what I wanted at the time, and I knew it was rude to ask if they'd had SRS or not. I'd still prefer for my sexual partners to have vaginas, though not as strongly as I used to. I'm not comfortable with this preference being read as bigotry, especially since I ended up realizing I was trans less than a year after I really started trying to find a date for the first time in my life. (I'm a late bloomer, romantically speaking, but that's a story for another time.)

 

2, I find that there are some creepy undertones of entitlement to the idea, albeit ones that I think are unintentioned.  What other group of people gets away with insisting that it's offensive to not want to have sex with them? Leftists typically don't let cishet men act like they're entitled to sex with people who have rejected them, even if they were rejected for inherent features like height or skin color.

 

3, This labelling of the non-trans/post-op-only preference as transphobia is the number one grievance I see being aired by people who aren't supportive of trans rights, some of whom cite it as the tipping point for when they stopped supporting trans rights entirely. Since I already don't buy the idea in the first place, I find it doubly frustrating that it's apparently causing collateral damage to trans rights beyond just my own personal annoyance.

 

 

I don't want to ruffle any feathers, and I'm sure that plenty of people here have unpleasant experiences with people rejecting them in offensive ways. But I just have to get this off my chest, even if not everyone will agree with me.

Link to comment
  • Forum Moderator

My own personal view in these 'politically correct' times is that some people almost complain about any view. I believe that it is not 'phobic' to restrict oneself for or against a relationship with any person, as such, but is to voice opinion in the effort, intentional or not, to influence others.

 

Tracy

Link to comment

People like or are attracted to who or what they are attracted to. I have no issue with this, as long as they are not harming others in the process. 
 

We all have preferences for everything in our lives, such as food, art, clothing, and people, to name a few. Some people are more open to experience and others are self-limiting. For those that are limiting themselves, that’s their loss. 

Where I do have an issue, is that a lot of personal preferences are driven culturally and through media. When there is hate and false information being spread to foster alienation, I do get upset. 

 

All though trans is it not new, in lots of areas, it’s new in the level of openness and understanding for a lot of people. It takes time for things to become accepted en masse. Given time and awareness efforts,  trans will likely become more accepted and likely more people will consider dating trans people. This doesn’t help us now, I get it, but it does give me some hope I’ll see it in my lifetime. 
 

 

Link to comment
  • Forum Moderator

I suppose it COULD be considered transphobic if the sole reason you're refusing to "swipe right" is that the person in question is trans. If you're otherwise attracted to them, why wouldn't you give it a chance? The compatible genitals thing is kind of a non-issue for me. It might have mattered more when I was younger, but there are plenty of work-arounds if you have a little creativity and a desire to please your partner. I probably don't have to tell anyone here, but there are more ways to "have sex" than what they taught you about in sex-ed. As far as I'm concerned, if everybody had a good time and gets to climax, the evening was a rousing success.

 

It's not very transphobic though. More... I don't know, ignorant? I think it goes back to, "Oh, that's really a man," thinking. We're getting past that, but it's a big leap for the older generation. What constitutes the older generation varies by region. Some places are more progressive than others.

 

I don't like the idea of hiding it either... but that seems like something that I also don't have to reveal right away. If things look like they're getting to the point where it could be an issue (hey, I'm a good girl, I don't put out on the first date) then your partner should be informed. Though in my case, I look like a log with breasts glued on so I can't imagine a prospective partner wouldn't at least suspect.

 

So yeah, I guess the problem is that we're not in a great spot as far as our acceptance by society. It makes it hard for us to find a love connection because prejudice, cultural artifacts and propaganda from a certain segment of the population. It's not fair. It strongly curtails our ability to find happiness with another human. We have to deal with it though. At least it's better now than it was twenty years ago, right?

 

Hugs!

Link to comment

I agree with Lucca on all points. And would add that disclosing one's identity as trans would be in their best interest I believe, even if they are passing and/or post op. I say that primarily for safety. But also for acceptance, for ourselves and from others. There's that population that wants to deny they are trans, and I think it's healthy to accept that about ones self. 

 

~Toni

Link to comment

Hmmm...

 

Interesting topic. My fiance´ is bottom Gay and is considering transitioning now as well. I count myself lucky because there is no animosity or rejection whatsoever

 

Of course living in Palm Springs helps being that it is a predominantly gay society to begin with.

Link to comment

It's just, I can't think of anything that would irritate me more or make me more uncomfortable than someone telling me I had to want to have sex with them or else I'm morally wrong.

Link to comment
55 minutes ago, Lucca said:

It's just, I can't think of anything that would irritate me more or make me more uncomfortable than someone telling me I had to want to have sex with them or else I'm morally wrong.

I can't say I disagree.

After all, if coercing someone into having sex is viewed as rape, then how would it be different forcing/coercing someone to begin dating a person they don't feel attraction to?

The heart loves who/what it loves. Labeling someone phobic over those choices doesn't make it better.

I'm open to being with anyone I'm attracted to, regardless of gender. I'm not open to being with someone I'm not attracted to, regardless of their gender nomenclature or equipment.

Link to comment
  • Admin

Transphobia comes in when the person decides sight unseen that they would never consider a Trans person as a viable dating option and when they find themselves attracted to a Trans person becomes violent toward the Trans person from personal disgust and self loathing.  It is the reasoning behind the decision. 

 

I do get a feeling of disgust at the idea that "Dating" is actually a euphemism for SEX.  Maybe I am too old, but Dating was a way of getting to know a person intellectually and emotionally long before SEX entered the picture.  I Dated many people with the idea of having companionship and enjoyment of common interests, and only Dated people for those reasons.  I buy dinner or show tickets for many friends whom I have no sexual interest in although some hand holding and a hug or two are welcome with boundaries we both honor. 

Link to comment

Vicky is so right about that! Dating to me was really just a means of initiating a possible friendship which is usually established once the other party began to see me as non threatening and a nice person to spend time with. The question of a possible sexual relationship, if at all, might come much later based on IF all the emotional factors between two people mutually click. 

Link to comment
43 minutes ago, TammyAnne said:

I'm afraid we old folks have been dragged into the age of "hooking up."

??

 

No hookups for this old kid, my better half would make it very expensive for me.

Link to comment
  • 2 months later...

I don't think it is necessarily transphobic to not want to date transgender people, and I also have concern that those who argue it is transphobic might be provoking people to become transphobic, and can make the rest of us look bad.


I think it makes sense why some transgender people feel it is transphobic, in that peoples' preferences can make it hard to find someone. So even though I don't agree with them, I see where they are coming from.


I've seen discussions online where people were discussing dating preferences (about transgender people and also other preferences) where they say that it is not prejudice to have preferences, but is prejudice to say they will *never* date someone who is a certain way. I don't know what to think about this but I thought I'd put it out there.

 

On 11/11/2019 at 11:42 PM, tracy_j said:

My own personal view in these 'politically correct' times is that some people almost complain about any view.

 

I strongly agree with this.

 

 

Link to comment
  • 4 weeks later...

I would say that it does get transphobic if: 

 

1. They say they will never date a trans person because "trans is an abomination" and "that's a man." 

2. They get violent out of disgust after finding out the truth. 

 

But not if it's simply about preference. 

Link to comment

I don't seem to have any difficulty dating a trans. It doesn't follow from this that I am attracted to any trans. Just like my attraction to women means only certain women and my attraction to men means only certain men, I can be intensely attracted to certain trans and not others. As I've gotten older, I've been more drawn to certain trans and men and less so to women. I also was much more transphobic when I was younger. I think dispelling this has been part and parcel of finding self-acceptance.

Link to comment

I personally do not like to label anyone based on there likes and dislikes or their personal choices.  Not having a desire to date a transgender person is a personal choice not a phobia in my opinion.

I would not have a problem dating a transgender person and the jury is out for which sex they have chosen to be if I must be honest.  (yes I know this is new for me)

It is more important to me on the level of connection that exists up front and the potential to grow that is between me and whomever I may be interested in.

 

Link to comment

A transgender woman once responded to someone saying that it is always OK to say no to sex, by saying that it is bigotry to not have sex because they are transgender. I think that was extremely inappropriate in that context. The person who said it is OK to deny sex probably did not even have transgender people in mind but was thinking about cis/hetero men pressuring women to have sex.

Link to comment
2 hours ago, Dana Michelle said:

A transgender woman once responded to someone saying that it is always OK to say no to sex, by saying that it is bigotry to not have sex because they are transgender. I think that was extremely inappropriate in that context

I agree that it is extremely inappropriate. To me, it also seems almost coercive and shaming. It is a very odd declaration. Does she really welcome and expect absolutely anyone to pursue her? Somehow I doubt it.  

Link to comment

I've heard this notion before saying people who refuse to date a trans person are transphobic.  It seems to me a ploy to use a sense of guilt to get someone to go out with you/have sex with you.  I certainly wouldn't want to date someone against their will.  It just seems like a recipe for complete disaster.  This is why I love being Ace.  There is no pressure to find someone.  Life is totally more simple being Ace.

 

I have to confess, since starting HRT some men seem cute to me.  I think that has a lot to do with the changes I've experienced emotionally.  Like I totally react much stronger to babies and kittens and cute stuff like that than I ever did before.  I find myself more delighted by personalities than anything physical in guys.  There is a huge difference between finding someone cute, and wanting to get involved with them romantically, or sexually.

 

I don't think it is transphobic at all to not want to date a trans person, in most cases.  I think it is a preference or not.

Link to comment
  • 1 month later...

Even though I don't think it is automatically transphobic to not want to date transgender people, I do think the way people say it can be transphobic. For example, someone on YouTube has made videos about how she won't date transgender women where she is giving the finger in the thumbnail. I think using a hostile gesture like that while talking about not wanting to date transgender people is transphobic. Also, I think it is transphobic to talk excessively about how they don't want to date transgender people.

Link to comment

Attraction is something that varies for all of us.  As long as it is coming from this and not from a place of fear or hate, there's nothing transphobic about it.  Forcing or attempting to convince others to follow your preference is transphobic or phobic of any other preference that differs from theirs. 

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Who's Online   2 Members, 0 Anonymous, 86 Guests (See full list)

    • Hannah Renee
    • KathyLauren
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      80.5k
    • Total Posts
      767.2k
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      11,944
    • Most Online
      8,356

    Melissa_J
    Newest Member
    Melissa_J
    Joined
  • Today's Birthdays

    1. Amyjay
      Amyjay
      (58 years old)
    2. bettyjean
      bettyjean
    3. Breanna
      Breanna
      (52 years old)
    4. Emily Ayla
      Emily Ayla
    5. JET182
      JET182
  • Posts

    • Willow
      Good Friday Morning    I will be spending a good portion of my day at church today.  I don’t know how any of my family would have been with me.  They all passed before I figured myself out.  I often think my mother and sister may have figured it out before I did but maybe it was just my depression that they saw.  I don’t know and never will.  My grandfather Young unconditionally loved me but he passed when I was 9.   Same with my wife’s parents, both gone before.  We’ve never had the greatest relationship with my wife’s brother but we do see them occasionally.  They words and actions aren’t always in sink when it comes to me.   Sour kraut or boil cabbage were never big even with my parents so that was something we were never expected to eat.  Nor was anything with mustard.  My mother hated mustard and it turns my stomach. My wife tried to sneak it into things early in our marriage but I could always tell.  She stopped after a while.   well I wave to go get ready to go to church.  I have a committee meeting at 10 and then we have a Good Friday Service at noon.   Willow
    • Mmindy
      Good morning everyone,   @KymmieLI hope you're misreading your bosses communications. As you say keep plugging a long. Don't give them signs that you're slow quitting, just to collect unemployment.   I have a few things to do business wise, and will be driving to the St. Louis, MO area for two family gatherings.   Have a great day,   Mindy🌈🐛🏳️‍⚧️🦋
    • KymmieL
      Good morning everyone, TGIFF   It seems like I am the one keeping or shop from being the best. According to the boss. I don't know if my days are numbered or not. But anymore I am waiting for the axe to fall. Time will tell.   I keep plugging a long.   Kymmie
    • KymmieL
      In the warmer weather, Mine is hitting the road on the bike. Just me, the bike, and the road. Other is it music or working on one of my many projects.   Kymmie
    • LC
      That is wonderful. Congratulations!
    • Heather Shay
      What is relaxation to you? Nature? Movie? Reading? Cuddling with a pet? Music?
    • Heather Shay
    • Heather Shay
      Having just a normal emotional day.
    • Heather Shay
      AMUSEMENT The feeling when you encounter something silly, ironic, witty, or absurd, which makes you laugh. You have the urge to be playful and share the joke with others. Similar words: Mirth Amusement is the emotional reaction to humor. This can be something that is intended to be humorous, like when someone tells a good joke or when a friend dresses up in a ridiculous costume. But it can also be something that you find funny that was not intended to be humorous, like when you read a sign with a spelling error that turns it into an ironic pun. For millennia, philosophers and scholars have been attempting to explain what exactly it is that makes something funny. This has led to several different theories. Nowadays, the most widely accepted one is the Incongruity Theory, which states that something is amusing if it violates our standards of how things are supposed to be. For example, Charlie Chaplin-style slapstick is funny because it violates our norms of competence and proper conduct, while Monty Python-style absurdity is funny because it violates reason and logic. However, not every standard or norm violation is necessarily funny. Violations can also evoke confusion, indignation, or shock. An important condition for amusement is that there is a certain psychological distance to the violation. One of the ways to achieve this is captured by the statement ‘comedy is tragedy plus time’. A dreadful mistake today may become a funny story a year from now. But it can also be distant in other ways, for instance, because it happened to someone you do not know, or because it happens in fiction instead of in real life. Amusement also needs a safe and relaxed environment: people who are relaxed and among friends are much more likely to feel amused by something. A violation and sufficient psychological distance are the basic ingredients for amusement, but what any one person find funny will depend on their taste and sense of humor. There are dozens of ‘humor genres’, such as observational comedy, deadpan, toilet humor, and black comedy. Amusement is contagious: in groups, people are more prone to be amused and express their amusement more overtly. People are more likely to share amusement when they are with friends or like-minded people. For these reasons, amusement is often considered a social emotion. It encourages people to engage in social interactions and it promotes social bonding. Many people consider amusement to be good for the body and the soul. By the end of the 20th century, humor and laughter were considered important for mental and physical health, even by psychoneuroimmunology researchers who suggested that emotions influenced immunity. This precipitated the ‘humor and health movement’ among health care providers who believed that humor and laughter help speed recovery, including in patients suffering from cancer1). However, the evidence for health benefits of humor and laughter is less conclusive than commonly believed2. Amusement is a frequent target of regulation: we down-regulate it by shifting our attention to avoid inappropriate laughter, or up-regulate it by focusing on a humorous aspect of a negative situation. Interestingly, amusement that is purposefully up-regulated has been found to have the same beneficial physical and psychological effects as the naturally experienced emotion. Amusement has a few clear expressions that emerge depending on the intensity of the emotion. When people are mildly amused, they tend to smile or chuckle. When amusement intensifies, people laugh out loud and tilt or bob their head. The most extreme bouts of amusement may be accompanied by uncontrollable laughter, tears, and rolling on the floor. Most cultures welcome and endorse amusement. Many people even consider a ‘good sense of humor’ as one of the most desirable characteristics in a partner. At the same time, most cultures have (implicit) rules about what is the right time and place for amusement. For example, displays of amusement may be deemed inappropriate in situations that demand seriousness or solemness, such as at work or during religious rituals.
    • Heather Shay
    • Heather Shay
    • Heather Shay
    • April Marie
      Good morning, everyone!!! Two cups of coffee in the books and I am just feeling so wonderful this morning. Not sure why, but I'm happy and smiling.   Enjoy this beautiful day!!!
    • Heather Shay
      A U.S. dollar bill can be folded approximately 4,000 times in the same place before it will tear. -You cannot snore and dream at the same time. -The average person walks the equivalent of three times around the world in a lifetime. -A hippo’s wide open mouth is big enough to fit a 4-foot-tall child in. -Chewing gum while you cut an onion will help keep you from crying.
    • Susan R
      Love it! This is great news. We need more of this to combat the excessive hate-filled rhetoric and misinformation. 👍
  • Upcoming Events

Contact TransPulse

TransPulse can be contacted in the following ways:

Email: Click Here.

To report an error on this page.

Legal

Your use of this site is subject to the following rules and policies, whether you have read them or not.

Terms of Use
Privacy Policy
DMCA Policy
Community Rules

Hosting

Upstream hosting for TransPulse provided by QnEZ.

Sponsorship

Special consideration for TransPulse is kindly provided by The Breast Form Store.
×
×
  • Create New...