Dating as a gay FTM (questions and thoughts)

[OliverPerry]

Hello, wise beings!

 

Usual intro: I'm a 24 year old pre-everything FTM in hiding.

 

To the issue!

I like blokes. To this day,  I never felt any sort of romantic/sexual attraction towards a girl. 

Looking female*  and living as one makes it easier for me to attract and have sex with guys (straight ones).  However, I have always felt uncomfortable when doing it. But, believe me, It's not that I don't want to do it, I simply freak out as soon as the guy touches me on any of my "female exclusive parts", a thing that makes me wish for it to be over as quickly as possible. It's frustrating, feeling desire and not being able to act upon it and enjoy yourself. I feel like the few sexual encounters I've had have traumatized me. In fact, it has been years since I even kissed a guy. Nowadays, whenever I have the opportunity to be with someone in a romantic way,  I just run away, avoiding it like the plague. I miss those times when kissing someone didn't mean "take your clothes off". Oh well, that's a whole other issue though.

The thing is, I find straight guys to be easy. However, they treat me like a girl and want me because they are attracted to me as a girl. This makes me uneasy, I feel I'm lying to them and that this lie is a major part of the problem. I don't want to be perceived as a girl while having sex but I do realize that's impossible while being in the closet.

 

I'm going to London next month, alone, and I feel it's the perfect opportunity to try another way of presenting myself, the male way. 

I've been looking at binders online and I have convinced myself to get one.

Also, I've decided to cut my hair short again, like the one I have in my profile pic. I've been growing it out for months. I stupidly thought that, by having long hair and not looking at myself in the mirror with a slightly more boyish appearance, I would eventually discard the wish to be male. It didn't happen though. Yeah, well, I guess you can't just erase 12 years of dysphoria by ignoring it. Truth be told, I've never wanted long hair, I've always preferred short. The problem is, short hair reminds me of what I don't have, I love it so much that it makes it causes me pain. Still, I'm going short again! I suffer with both styles anyway, so why not? 

Righty right. Binder and short hair. Rocking no boobs and my strangely female but boyish facial features. Actually, quick fact, I work as an actress (secretly dreaming to be an actor instead) and I've been offered roles in Theatre which were actually for young boys. They cut my hair and there ya go! I'm a boy! Well, a 12 to 15 year old boy but, still, it's bloody great. 

 

Ok!

Being FTM, going to a club and being perceive as lesbian. How do I avoid this?

There was once a time when I attempted to come out (failed miserably) and everyone just thought I suddenly liked girls. It's a complicated story though, I'll tell it some other time. 

But yes, I've come across pre-T trans men complaining about this issue online. It is a thing and a quite annoying one, specially if you want to not only pass as male but also attract one.

I'm really not excited about the thought of having a girl in my face and wanting to snog me. However, I do realize it must be quite difficult to attract a guy who likes guys and that's going to treat you like one when you're not even on testosterone yet.

But, bloody hell, I absolutely despise having to play the role of the "cute" 24 year old girl in order to please a straight guy. And I'm a bloody people pleaser, a dreadful thing to be. 

I just miss romantic/sexual interaction so much. Even just a bloody kiss would feel heavenly. But I really don't want to use my "female qualities" to attract someone.

 

Quick note: My inner being might not be female but it's also not all "manly". I'm shy and silly, which pretty much makes me a dork. If I had been born in a male body, I would have been the teenage boy with the awkward laugh that barely speaks but, when he does, talks really fast and then goes home kicking himself for acting weird around people again. This teenage boy would, of course, then lock himself in his room and spend hours playing the latest videogame in solitude. If you imagine him as a girl, you'd basically be imagining my teenage years (and my present life). 

All this to share that I am not and doubt I'll ever be the stereotypical "dude". 

 

*A shout of despair*

I don't know what to do...

Help! Someone!

How can I have any sort of romantic interaction without being seen as a girl?

Has anyone here been able to be perceived as a guy in the dating world before taking T?

 

I had many opportunities during this pitiful time of abstinence but I still couldn't go through with anything. I'm just really sick of lying and not being able to enjoy sexuality.

My last kiss/sexual act was in march 2017. It's bad. 

I want to enjoy my youth! It's slipping away!

 

 

*Don't let my profile pic fool you. I really bloody look like a girl in the real world.  If you saw me in person, or in another photo, you would never guess how uncomfortable I constantly feel. 

[OliverPerry]

Oh!

I'm really short!

I'm suddenly kinda embarrassed about it but here it is anyway: 5ft

 

I'm doomed, aren't I?

[TTheta]

I struggle with the same thing. Wanting to be treated as a male in a relationship, I get perceived as a lesbian half the time and it's terrible in my opinion because I want to be a guy. I am bisexual but am usually only noticed by guys who see me as a girl, but for me it's half and half. Some guys see me as a dude and some see me as a girl. Honestly, height will be the death of most of us trans dudes, and there is really nothing we can do about it. 

[tracy_j]

The height thing is one thing I think about with people (amongst several other looks). For myself from mtf point of view I am five foot eleven so not too extreme but it is a negative marker. I wonder about both cis men and women who are outside the normal range. In a place where I used to work there was a beautiful girl in her early twenties. She was six foot six and built in proportion. She worried greatly about the way she looked as she would be very intimidating to most men although obviously a woman. I was only wondering a day or two back where she is now.

 

I think the point I am indicating is that there are cis men and women out there whose looks are contradictory. They are common but it is in their actions and mannerisms that they show who they are. As you get older the androgyne looks will fade somewhat and it will be less of a problem. I can understand though how you feel as I know it would have been a far bigger issue for me to not have been heavily attracted to girls in my teens, just guys.I have never seen myself as gay as I am generally only attracted to heterosexual men from a female viewpoint but most women (lesbian or otherwise) although physically male (it gets really confusing if I think about it but I generally don't).  I can only suggest moving forward and gaining experience. You will meet people who see you as you are, not appear. I don't think relationships are ever easy.

 

Tracy

[TommieAnne]

12 hours ago, OliverPerry said:

Oh!

I'm really short!

I'm suddenly kinda embarrassed about it but here it is anyway: 5ft

 

I'm doomed, aren't I?

I was in the Army with a guy who was about 5 feet tall. No one ever questioned his virility.

Being perceived as male has a lot to do with how you carry yourself, move and conduct yourself.

At my local group, there is a trans-woman who must be 6 feet 6 inches tall. She has long hair (but then so do I) but her movements are relaxed and flowing, almost slinky. At a glance you'd never guess she was born in a male body.

Practice how you carry yourself so that you blend in, don't over exaggerate the male act. Most men don't swagger unless they're showing off for an audience.

Oh. Men often communicate status in very subtle ways. A slight nod, a half smile as they pass by. Staring can be seen as a combative challenge - be careful about that.

It's a lot to cope with, and many cis men do it poorly.

[Adrian Doyle]

I recently got a boyfriend, but I honestly thought it would be impossible to find one. Crazy enough, he asked me out after I came out to him. He’s incredibly supportive, and I can’t epress well enough in the English language how much I care about the guy. I am worried about our dynamic later on, since I’m asexual and he is not. I’ve talked to him about it, and he says he’s 100% fine with it, but I still worry that it may cause problems in our relationship later on. His parents also aren’t nearly as accepting as him, so he has to call me his “girlfriend” to prevent possibly being kept apart by his family. 

[NB Adult]

13 hours ago, OliverPerry said:

Oh!

I'm really short!

I'm suddenly kinda embarrassed about it but here it is anyway: 5ft

 

I'm doomed, aren't I?

 

You're not doomed Oliver Perry! There are lots of short guys in the world with slight builds that are seen as men. Presentation, mannerisms and body language is the key. I'm relatively short at 5' 7," when I had shoulder length hair and diamond ear studs I was ma'amed a lot, some even took me for a lesbian because I still carried myself as a man and had masculine mannerisms. I didn't like it at the time and got rid of the studs and chopped off the mop, that's when I decided to go non-binary and bag GRS.

 

So you are an actor, time to make those skills work for you. As for kissing, this is where male assertiveness comes into play, just make it clear that hugs and kisses are nice but you aren't interested in a shag just because you like someone. 

[NB Adult]

1 hour ago, Adrian Doyle said:

I recently got a boyfriend, but I honestly thought it would be impossible to find one. Crazy enough, he asked me out after I came out to him. He’s incredibly supportive, and I can’t epress well enough in the English language how much I care about the guy. I am worried about our dynamic later on, since I’m asexual and he is not. I’ve talked to him about it, and he says he’s 100% fine with it, but I still worry that it may cause problems in our relationship later on. His parents also aren’t nearly as accepting as him, so he has to call me his “girlfriend” to prevent possibly being kept apart by his family. 

 

Kudos and congratulations, there are some accepting good people in this world! You may just have to play along in front of his parents and suck it up over the girlfriend designation, we all do whatever it takes to make things work.

[OliverPerry]

3 hours ago, Adrian Doyle said:

I recently got a boyfriend, but I honestly thought it would be impossible to find one. Crazy enough, he asked me out after I came out to him. He’s incredibly supportive, and I can’t epress well enough in the English language how much I care about the guy. I am worried about our dynamic later on, since I’m asexual and he is not. I’ve talked to him about it, and he says he’s 100% fine with it, but I still worry that it may cause problems in our relationship later on. His parents also aren’t nearly as accepting as him, so he has to call me his “girlfriend” to prevent possibly being kept apart by his family. 

 

You're living the dream! Well, a male body, of course, would be an even better dream but still I do envy your situation. Your boyfriend must be a wonderful being. It must be quite rare to find someone so loving and expecting.

 

The whole calling you his "girlfriend" when talking to his parents thing must suck though. But I guess it must be done.

 

I'm FTM and dating another FTM like myself is not something I would oppose to. I like blokes and I perceive trans man as blokes (male anatomy is great and all but it's not the only thing that I find attractive in a guy).I'm still living as a girl though. And, while dating as one, If if I were to bring a trans guy to meet my parents, then I guess, if pre-T, I would introduce him as a "friend" and, after T, as a cis boyfriend (hiding the trans issue). I guess this is bad but the need to protect ourselves and others is important. 

 

Hopefully, when you start taking T (if that's what you're hoping to do) and begin experiencing physical changes, your boyfriend's parents already like you so much that they won't mind and you'll become the boyfriend instead of the "girlfriend" in their eyes with no judgement. This would be heavenly and it's not completely impossible.

I have a bisexual female friend who used to bring her girlfriend to her parents house as if she were just another friend. They broke up in a horrible way (after almost three years of dating) and my friend was so low she ended up telling the truth to her parents over the phone in a crying fit. Her mom and dad are wonderful people and had been quite found of her "friend". However, they've always lived in a small town and never had access to anything other than what's considered to be "normal", so it was quite a shock to them. Also, they are very religious people. Still, after only a couple of days, they accepted it, maybe not fully but at least showed their support. In the end, all they wanted was for their daughter to be happy and actually expressed missing her girlfriend's presence in their house, even after knowing about the truth of their relationship. 

I'm sharing this just to show that isn't impossible for not very openminded parents to accept things like this. Well, I guess if they don't like you now as their son's "girlfriend", they'll probably won't like you as a trans boyfriend in the future as well. I hope that's not your case and that they adore you. 

 

Oh well, again: your boyfriend is bloody amazing!

 

 

 

 

[Adrian Doyle]

Thanks everyone! Well, unfortunately, I naturally look very “feminine”, so it’s still a bit of a battle with looking “masculine” enough. On the other hand, I find that even though I am 100% sure that I am a trans guy, many of my mannerisms, interests, and choice in apparel stems from both male and female upbringings. I love sports, but I was trained in music and dance at a young age. I love them equally. I can’t live without oversized hoodies, band shirts, and baseball tees, but at the same time, I feel more comfortable in high waisted shorts than jeans (I think the only jeans that actually fit me show my curves off too much for comfort, so I wear shorts all year round). There’s so many other little things that have confused my friends for years, but I know who I am, and personally, I think that it’s not so much how you look or act, but what makes you most comfortable and happy that helps define one’s identify, gender, sexuality, or otherwise. I am a boy, but I don’t look or act like the “average” one. But at the same time, that in no way discredits what I identify as. I would never be “average”, no matter my gender or sexuality, and I’m so grateful for the friends and my boyfriend that recently entered my life and support and love me as much and I do them. I can’t thank them enough for the amount of happiness they’ve brought me in the past few months, so for now at least, I’m trying to be positive about my transition. 

[Jackie C.]

I don't know, T is a hell of a drug. You might be surprised how masculine you become on HRT. I'm a little jealous of FtM's honestly because of how well most of your physicality turns out. (MtF's get better bottom surgery, but that's about it.) Seriously though, grow a beard, nobody will question you.

 

Hugs!

[OliverPerry]

2 hours ago, Adrian Doyle said:

I am a boy, but I don’t look or act like the “average” one. But at the same time, that in no way discredits what I identify as.

 

You're right. Also, glad to know I'm not alone there, mate! 

 

Being dismissed as a trans FTM for not being obviously "manly" bloody sucks. There are so many cis blokes (that identify without a doubt as one) that have supposedly "female" interests/ways of acting as there are also cis girls that have the commonly identified as "male like" qualities. And this doesn't mean they're not "straight" and match the gay or lesbian stereotype. Blokes don't have to be rude, cocky and rough bastards and girls don't have to be frail flowers dreaming about prince charming. 

 

[OliverPerry]

1 hour ago, Jackie C. said:

Seriously though, grow a beard, nobody will question you.

 

Ahahah it will prove to be difficult that. I have until December and have yet to meet the great T that makes FTM wishes come true.

I'll just dream about it. 

Never been a great fan of beard by the way. I like light stubble though. With it, a person doesn't have beard but shows the possibility of beard. Love that. 

 

 

 

 

[Jackie C.]

42 minutes ago, OliverPerry said:

Never been a great fan of beard by the way. I like light stubble though. With it, a person doesn't have beard but shows the possibility of beard. Love that. 

 

They're honestly itchy as hell, but 

 

I completely get where you're coming from.

 

Hugs!

[TTheta]

42 minutes ago, OliverPerry said:

 

Ahahah it will prove to be difficult that. I have until December and have yet to meet the great T that makes FTM wishes come true.

I'll just dream about it. 

Never been a great fan of beard by the way. I like light stubble though. With it, a person doesn't have beard but shows the possibility of beard. Love that. 

 

 

 

 

Speaking of beards. I have never shaved my face and I have only have peach fuzz rip. Asians don't really grow facial hair as much (Which sucks.)

[Adrian Doyle]

1 hour ago, OliverPerry said:

 

You're right. Also, glad to know I'm not alone there, mate! 

 

Being dismissed as a trans FTM for not being obviously "manly" bloody sucks. There are so many cis blokes (that identify without a doubt as one) that have supposedly "female" interests/ways of acting as there are also cis girls that have the commonly identified as "male like" qualities. And this doesn't mean they're not "straight" and match the gay or lesbian stereotype. Blokes don't have to be rude, cocky and rough bastards and girls don't have to be frail flowers dreaming about prince charming. 

 

Exactly! I think what really matters is what makes you comfortable and happy, not what everyone else says fits what you identify as. My boyfriend, for example, wears a ton of cute, pastel stuff, chokers, and high waisted jeans. I’ve been doing his makeup too, and I wish everyone could see how much he smiles when I do. That stuff isn’t for me, but it makes him so happy that I don’t see why his friends (who are 99.9% straight men who’s opinions shouldn’t matter to a bi guy dating a trans guy) should argue with it, especially if they claim that they want to see him happy. They can’t have a socially conforming friend and a happy one. I’m trying to explain that to them. It really tears him up, but he doesn’t say anything, so I’m worried about what might happen if they say anything about me. (Will he just let it slide, or will he blow up? I’ve never seen the guy get mad before, so I don’t know.)

[reyindium]

I dated a preT guy while preT myself. We were boyfriends on and off for 3 years. The relationship was pure garbage but the sex was fantastic. Like you, I have intimacy issues being perceived as female in bed. So being seen and addressed as a male intimately really left an impression.

 

Don't fret about the height thing. A ton of cis men are short. I'm 5"1' and height is probably one of the things I'm the least self conscious of. Confidence really does a lot. Fake it until you make it in the confidence department.

 

And I don't get bent out of shape about "masculine behaviors". I'm sick of societal gendertyping; it's overrated imho. So many cis people already fall outside the 'norm' but they don't hyperanalyze their mannerisms and tastes the way trans folks do because for some reason we feel like we've got something to prove. ?

 

If you want to be kissed as a guy [preT], you may have to openly introduce yourself as a transguy at the club or whatever. Like, "Hey I'm Oliver and I'm a transman" or something to that affect. In lgbt circles, I'm totally open about my trans identity because otherwise I'm presumed to be a butch lesbian. That leads to being misgendered, which sucks.