Detransition and HRT

[Lucca]

I read stories of people who detransition/regret transitioning occasionally (not the ones who are super anti-trans and want to prevent others from transitioning, just the more "nice" ones who want to make their personal experience heard). I dunno, I just feel kind of bad for how they get treated, and I also want insight from people with regret in order to make absolutely sure I'm not going to have my own regrets. Something that struck me with the story I just read (https://youtu.be/_FrNWXCKQkE) is that the author largely based his transition goals around surgeries he was planning to get, as well as theoretical gratification that lay far in the future. Not a lot is said about mental changes or hormones, or things that made them feel very good about themselves early in their transition. Maybe it's just selection bias, but I feel like this is something I remember hearing in other transition stories.

 

Now, big disclaimer: I am not saying that trans people have to have HRT in order to be trans or to transition, or that they have to feel a certain way on it. However, for me, personally, hormones and immediate mental improvement are by far the biggest reasons why I'm transitioning, and why I doubt I'm going to have any regrets. I used to be an absolute mental wreck, and estrogen has improved my mental health dramatically, way more than any prior therapy medication ever has. I don't get debilitatingly anxious anymore, I don't have panic attacks, I don't have extreme depression, I don't have suicidal ideation, I don't have huge mood swings, I don't cry at inappropriate or embarrassing times, and I don't have memory and concentration problems as badly as I used to.

 

I don't want to be a "transmedicalist" here, I don't believe that every trans person needs to be suicidally depressed and require medical intervention to be valid, but I definitely need it. I need HRT just to function well enough to hold a job. Even if I went back to living as a man, I can't imagine quitting hormones. I need them to be whole, and that was apparent after just a couple months, without even coming out to any friends and still living full-time as male. (This is also why I don't like the "real-life test" that some places will make you do, where you have to live full-time without HRT for a year or so before being given HRT. I think that, arguably, a better test is to give someone low-dose HRT for a couple months without transitioning, and if they have mental improvement, it means they're trans.)

 

This makes it very easy to prove to myself that I'm trans, I really don't have any doubts anymore after going on HRT. Some detransitioners and regretters just don't seem to have had the same  drastically life-altering experience with hormones that I've had. There's often a lot of hope placed in feeling complete after surgeries that are a long way off, and then they don't feel satisfied once they've gotten them.

 

Thoughts?

 

[VickySGV]

There are recent legitimate studies on the "de-transition phenomena" and the actual rate is less than a full percent of people who have Transitioned.  Sadly it is that tiny number that is thrown in our faces as a reason not to have HRT or especially GCS.  Yes, it might happen, it might just happen, but instead of worry about it, lets take the best steps we can to prevent it.  It will be 7 years in January since my GCS and I know what it does not do for you even better than what it does so I will not encourage you to have it, nor in any way say it is the best and only way although I have no regrets of having done so by now.  At hour 36 after the surgery I was dead certain I had made the mistake of my life but as the pain and swelling went down and other healing took place it all became simply life for me. I am part of a wonderful group of people who live their deepest truths and we care for each other in way our Cis Siblings cannot approach at all.

 

Follow the proven pattern of counseling and inward reflection that helps you be sure certain steps are right for YOU (not some other person).  You never will be 100% certain what is right.  The best I can do in about 95% even now and with the continuing help of mental health therapists for the issues the HRT and GCS did not solve.  I am a whole person, not just re-manufactured body parts.

 

The old one year RLT is phasing out as therapists are getting people who are better informed and know what is happening in their lives.  The therapists themselves are learning more things about cross gender experience, and actually there are a growing group that DO go more quickly to HRT and use it as a diagnostic tool for patients. 

It is your program, and while it is useful to see where others have met challenges that send them back to their assigned birth gender, if their reasons do not apply to your life, move on and do not invite trouble.  There are multiple back-ups and fail-safes to keep you from hurting yourself. Actual Evidence Based Science studies are continuing and  new ones are being stated almost daily or weekly.  BE YOU, be the BEST YOU you can be is the bottom line.  Go for it.

[Lucca]

I just want to figure out why some people end up detransitioning, if we understood it more it would help a lot of people out. A lot of regret stories I've read seem like the regretters believe that hitting a bunch of milestones in the future will make them happy, and there's not a lot of satisfaction with the process during the journey to get to that point. On the flip side, people who describe having a massive improvement from hormones alone don't seem to have these kind of stories.

 

That doesn't mean that taking hormones and having an improvement is necessary to be trans, particularly for non-binary people, but people who take hormones and have good results are not likely to experience regret. And that's probably what most trans people experience.

 

I dunno, I'm just trying to wrap my head around how someone could feel the way I do and regret transitioning. It's like saying someone who's diabetic would regret taking insulin. I have to assume there's something very different about detransitioner's trans experience that isn't outwardly obvious.

[Guest]

I will share my own poor opinion about the topic. 

 

I don't have nothing against detransitioners who felt that the presure of "society" is too much for them or those who goes back for a medical reason. As long as they do not do harm to the rest of the community (like Walt Hayer, etc.) I am okay with them. Even feel supportive. 

 

A few weeks ago I've read an article with some trans detransitioners stories. One of them made one statement that wasn't that harmful (depends who and how will use it): He started the whole transition with the (sorry but I'll say it) stupid idea the process will give him a new identity. He will change. All of his issues will disappear magically just as he "recaive" his "new body" and legal status! 

 

Sadly his not the only one. 

 

One of the most absurdic reason for detransition was from a trans woman. For her it was too expecive to be a woman but she doesn't mean hormpnes or surgeries. She meant dresses and make up. And the whole competition-like thing that exsists in most womens' circles - who is more feminine, more stylish, etc. Brabie beauty stereotypes. That stupid, ladies and gents! There are cis people who don't fit the beauty and other traits related to the "society's expectations"... Is that the reason for all of us to reject ourselves and to obey to absurdity. 

 

No!

 

But it seems like some people, since the beginning were confused, were even into the idea that being trans is "a fashion trend", choice, attention seekers, genderfluids, cross-dressing, etc. Let's be honest... There are this kind of people, no matter how we don't want them to be between us. 

 

That's why, when someone comes to our support group or to me and ask what to do first I am sending them to rethink everythink and to find a trans-friendly psychological specialist. I am not a huge suporter of "gatekeeping", especially, when it's not inclusive to specialists or activists who are trans people who to participate in the descision making what to do with the patient, what procedures to have. Some monitoring is needed so we don't have more Walt Hayer-s walking around. 

 

Detransitioning is a problem that needs to be examined, especially the motivation for it, because often when the conservative media writes "ex-transgender" it must coming to our mind that it's all about a perosn who have never ever been a transgender person in first place. 

 

P.S. Sorry, the editor is not working, so I might have some huge and small gramatic errors. Excuse me for that!!!  

 

 

[Jani]

20 hours ago, Lucca said:

I just want to figure out why some people end up detransitioning,

This is just my opinion but I think it comes down to expectations that are beyond reality and societal pressures.  These two things weigh heavy on us.  When I went for the second recommendation letter for surgery I was asked what I expected afterwards.  I told the counselor that nothing would change for me except I would feel more complete.   

 

Any problems I had would not be solved by surgery or the act of transitioning.  I needed to deal with these one on one.  So my overall expectations were reasonable and from the social POV I was lucky in that I was accepted by those that cared for me.    

 

I have come across those wearing rose colored glasses that thought transition was the one answer they needed.  Many were sadly disappointed.   I for one am glad I spent time with a counselor to sort things out so I could be full informed before I took each step in this journey.  

 

Jani

[NB Adult]

2 hours ago, Jani said:

This is just my opinion but I think it comes down to expectations that are beyond reality and societal pressures.  These two things weigh heavy on us.  

I think you nailed it Jani!

[VickySGV]

22 hours ago, Lucca said:

I dunno, I'm just trying to wrap my head around how someone could feel the way I do and regret transitioning.

 

The studies I mentioned above put three main reasons up for the de-transition.

 

1) Societal, economic and family pressures.  A hot spot for this is in a couple of eastern European countries but Europe and North America have it too. Many of these people will re-transition if they move to more accepting locations or family members change their ways of thinking. 

 

2) As said above, unreasonable expectations of what the surgery will do for them in terms of sexuality and sexual pleasure leading bodily presentation issues slightly when you include FFS or BA and others.  This can happen with HRT only as well.  Some do think they will have a special sex and love life and lie their way into the treatments.

 

3) Untreated Behavioral Health issues that existed before HRT or surgeries and become confused during the GD or imagined GD cycle.  Borderline Personality disorder or Dissociative Identity Disorder are two, although not in all cases of them.

[Lexi C]

I am sorry but I so confused right now. Maybe I didn't do a enough research, but I was put on HRT right way. I bein CD for over 2yrs before, but still the clinic put me on my currents meds and HRT injection before 2 therapist session that was a yr ago, And I more depress, have major anger swings, constantly forgetting things or misplace stuff and I barely sleep anymore. I just assume its was because my mom is dying but now I scared I am doing the right thing. Maybe I should off stay a CD,,,..Dam I was I never have read this 

[TommieAnne]

Alex C I have shared some off/on concerns with my therapist. The bottom line is it's fine to put things in "park" for a bit instead of rushing down the freeway with no destination in mind. Which more or less describes my situation. I cannot say that applies to you or not.

But if you're in a place of significant turmoil and transitioning isn't relieving your distress or is contributing to it, to me it seems it's time to discuss this with your therapist.

[MiraM]

9 hours ago, VickySGV said:

3) Untreated Behavioral Health issues that existed before HRT or surgeries and become confused during the GD or imagined GD cycle.  Borderline Personality disorder or Dissociative Identity Disorder are two, although not in all cases of them.

I originally transitioned in 1999-2000, and de-transitioned for this reason.  I was expecting HRT and transitioning to be the magic bullet that was going to solve all my problems.  I did not work on ANY of the other major mental health issues I was having (MDD, self-harm, substance abuse disorder, PTSD.....), and it was a disaster.  Yes, the dysphoria was eased some with HRT, but the other issues became worse and led to several forced confinements to the psych ward over a two year period.  In the end, I stopped HRT and went back to living as a male, stopped taking all my psych meds, and stopped going to any therapy.

 

I went back in to therapy in 2016.  For the first 1 1/2 years, my psychologist and I worked exclusively on the other issues, only touching briefly on the gender dysphoria.  It was only after the other problems were somewhat more manageable, did we begin to address the dysphoria which was still present.  It was another 6 months before either of us was comfortable with me going back on HRT and beginning to transition again.  It was a little over a year after starting HRT again that I was convinced that transitioning was the only option for me in treating the dysphoria, and I began living as my true self full time instead of only in certain circumstances.  Even now, our sessions are mainly focused on the other issues and not solely on the GD. 

 

I really have to agree with Vicky in that the untreated co-morbid conditions are a major factor in why many may de-transition.  It was true in my case.  HRT and transition WILL NOT make all of you problems go away, and will not turn you into someone else.  I am still the same person I was, with all the same problems.  Transitioning has helped ease the dysphoria somewhat and regular work with my doctor helps with the other issues.   Getting the other things under control has made it possible for me to re-transition, be comfortable with who I am, and not be ashamed to be seen as who I am.

 

So yeah, unreasonable expectations (which I had many the first time), and co-morbid conditions are a major factor in why people choose to de-transition.

[VickySGV]

Thank you @MiraM  for being  open and helpful on this issue.  It sounds like you are on a healing pathway with a lot of hope on it.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, MiraM said:

I originally transitioned in 1999-2000, and de-transitioned for this reason.  I was expecting HRT and transitioning to be the magic bullet that was going to solve all my problems.  I did not work on ANY of the other major mental health issues I was having (MDD, self-harm, substance abuse disorder, PTSD.....), and it was a disaster.  Yes, the dysphoria was eased some with HRT, but the other issues became worse and led to several forced confinements to the psych ward over a two year period.  In the end, I stopped HRT and went back to living as a male, stopped taking all my psych meds, and stopped going to any therapy.

 

I went back in to therapy in 2016.  For the first 1 1/2 years, my psychologist and I worked exclusively on the other issues, only touching briefly on the gender dysphoria.  It was only after the other problems were somewhat more manageable, did we begin to address the dysphoria which was still present.  It was another 6 months before either of us was comfortable with me going back on HRT and beginning to transition again.  It was a little over a year after starting HRT again that I was convinced that transitioning was the only option for me in treating the dysphoria, and I began living as my true self full time instead of only in certain circumstances.  Even now, our sessions are mainly focused on the other issues and not solely on the GD. 

 

I really have to agree with Vicky in that the untreated co-morbid conditions are a major factor in why many may de-transition.  It was true in my case.  HRT and transition WILL NOT make all of you problems go away, and will not turn you into someone else.  I am still the same person I was, with all the same problems.  Transitioning has helped ease the dysphoria somewhat and regular work with my doctor helps with the other issues.   Getting the other things under control has made it possible for me to re-transition, be comfortable with who I am, and not be ashamed to be seen as who I am.

 

So yeah, unreasonable expectations (which I had many the first time), and co-morbid conditions are a major factor in why people choose to de-transition.

Precious experience!

 

Thank you for sharing it...

 

For me, for myself I am sure in one thing - there is no going back! The path leads in two directions - ahead in the future or in the ... you might get it... 

 

I have never believed that transitioning will change anything. Actually, being the person who I am helped me to survive and to gain some emotional wisdom and a bit of maturity in the emotional sphere. 

 

I hadn't rushed into my transition. I grew up in post-communistic Bulgaria and i didn't have any answers to what is happening to me. The answer came in the form of an article about Caroline Cossey, about her story in a dirty magazine (the story was well, positively presented). Even then I had a doubt that I can accomplish something in that direction and I doubted that there are many trans people... I didn't know what to do! So I go on with my inner womanhood and something like blur manhood (always reflecting the femininity that was soaked in my identity). 

 

I started my transition two years ago. 

 

I was introduced to the Bulgarian trans community around four-five years ago. And I didn't rush into transition.

When I felt secure and really prepared (as much as it's possible). I knew that the estradiol and the blocker won't do the magic trick and turn me into a woman... But how it could turn me when I am a woman, a trans woman, a woman on her own?! Even in my fraud man look!!! 

 

I didn't put many hopes. I set my mind in "Receive what you get with joy! Be prepared for a lot of bad things". 

Now two years later, with Facial Feminization Rhinoplasty, I still have a long way to walk, I am looking at the detransitioning as a betrayal of my own self! As I said I prefer "the end" then giving up my identity... 

 

I also know that problems can't be solved by "becoming someone else via HRT and GCS". I know it clearly and I know that I am still MICHELLE (not legally)- the same one that I was 34 years ago -  emotional, sometimes distant, introvert, emphatic and still trying to think and feel, to balance those two, because feelings sometimes took a toll over me.

 

I am not the one to judge detransitioners. I do not agree and like some of them, like You Know Who, who harmed our communities worldwide!  But I am here to live my life and to walk my path, and dysphoria IS the thing that makes me who I am with my good and bad sides, it helped me to look beyond and I will try (I won't say "never"- You know what they say "Never say "never") to retain myself, my identity core at any cost. 
 

[Jani]

9 hours ago, shelly_koleva83 said:

When I felt secure and really prepared (as much as it's possible).

This is an important element in Transitioning.

 

9 hours ago, shelly_koleva83 said:

I didn't put many hopes. I set my mind in "Receive what you get with joy! Be prepared for a lot of bad things". 

It's good not to pin your future on "hoping", but instead on "doing".  

 

9 hours ago, shelly_koleva83 said:

I also know that problems can't be solved by "becoming someone else via HRT and GCS".

Because you won't become someone else!  You hopefully will allow yourself to be the person you are and have been, without fear or having the need to keep secrets.   Being able to walk your own path is empowering and being able to work with both good and bad will ultimately help you be the best version of you.  

 

Jani

[Lexi C]

Am I sorry but this is not help. Thanking for sharing and support..but  now I am really in a bad place. I feel like I just got sucker punch...I am so confused right now.

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Alex C said:

Am I sorry but this is not help. Thanking for sharing and support..but  now I am really in a bad place. I feel like I just got sucker punch...I am so confused right now.

 

No one meant to insult or confuse you! People shared their point of view. Sometimes it's more "not what i want tot hear!"...

 

If you think that me or some of the others members are in a bright place everyday, 24/7. Even writing the second reply I was keeping it together, because I had troubles as well but I won't let them turn me away from myself...

 

Generally: It's up to you! It's your life and you can do whatever you need to do, aside from other's opinion, especially when it's something so personal like your identity... 

 

Hope you'll get fine and decide and find the answers that you need!!!

[Carolyn Marie]

On 11/28/2019 at 8:54 PM, Alex C said:

I am sorry but I so confused right now. Maybe I didn't do a enough research, but I was put on HRT right way. I bein CD for over 2yrs before, but still the clinic put me on my currents meds and HRT injection before 2 therapist session that was a yr ago, And I more depress, have major anger swings, constantly forgetting things or misplace stuff and I barely sleep anymore. I just assume its was because my mom is dying but now I scared I am doing the right thing. Maybe I should off stay a CD,,,..Dam I was I never have read this 

 

Alex, I am so sorry that you are going through difficult and confusing times.  There are those who know without a doubt who they are, and going immediately to HRT is the right thing for them.  For most others doubts are real, and co-morbidity issues are real, and some doctors don't understand or care that such differences exist.  I can't know for sure, but that seems to have been so in your case.

 

It sounds like you need more than two therapy sessions; I strongly urge you to find an experienced gender therapist and really spend some time examining why you feel as you do, and what the best course of action is.  Only through that exercise will you discover if transition is the right way to go.  Then, if you decide that is the right path, staying on or re-starting HRT will be beneficial.

 

Confusion can be beneficial if it leads to action to find out why you are confused, and what to do about it.  It is only a temporary condition. Please seek help with someone trained in gender issues.  I think you will benefit greatly.

 

HUGS

 

Carolyn Marie

[NB Adult]

1 hour ago, Carolyn Marie said:

some doctors don't understand or care that such differences exist.  I can't know for sure, but that seems to have been so in your case.

 

It sounds like you need more than two therapy sessions; I strongly urge you to find an experienced gender therapist and really spend some time examining why you feel as you do, and what the best course of action is. 

 

Exactly the reason why a lengthy series of counseling sessions are so beneficial and required. Sadly there are some doctors that prescribe medications as if it's candy without any consideration for the standard guidelines. 

[Regn]

@Alex C i don’t know you so take or leave this but I don’t think developing mental health symptoms after starting hormones necessarily means starting hormones was a mistake.

 

They’re powerful chemicals and do affect your emotions and mood. My psychologist explained to me that pre-T, i had a set of strategies, developed over years to deal with my history without collapsing in a mess. When I started T, the raw materials of those strategies changed with my brain chemistry and were no longer useful... Things can get weird and messy. It doesn’t mean my transition is a mistake though. It’s just not a simple or linear path to wellness.

 

I know T and E have different effects emotionally but I wonder if what you’re experiencing now is just what’s always been there but E has allowed you to access it, whereas before you couldn’t?

[NB Adult]

12 hours ago, Regn said:

They’re powerful chemicals and do affect your emotions and mood. My psychologist explained to me that pre-T, i had a set of strategies, developed over years to deal with my history without collapsing in a mess. When I started T, the raw materials of those strategies changed with my brain chemistry and were no longer useful... Things can get weird and messy.

 

@Regn  is so right about this phenomenon! Before estrogen I was a classic Type-A Chloric personality, the hormone took my  brain on a 90 degree turn from a hard core masculine mentality to that of a female mindset, it was bizarre initially and it took some time for my brain to click back to center, and find an acceptable point in the middle where I was fully comfortable with myself and not an emotional mess.