New to this-but looking for something

[Mel]

I’m new to this site, I just found it last night. I’m just looking for anyone who might be able to shed some light. Or even to know that I’m not alone cuz I just don’t know what I am, who I am, or even how to come to terms with all this.  
 

I am a 34 year old female, married to a feminine woman. I live my life, and I am out to my family, friends and co-workers as a butch lesbian. I have been wearing boys/men’s clothes for as long as I can remember. As a child, all I wanted to do was pee standing up, and walk around without my shirt like my brother. When I could, I would wear my brothers clothes. But my mom would force me to wear girls clothes. She forced me to wear makeup. I hated it. I’ve always struggled with the fact that I have a period. I’ve always wanted to be “flat.” But I’m far from that with a full “C” cup that I hide in a sports bra. I ONLY wear men’s clothes, and boxer briefs.

 

Here’s my problem: I’ve had relationships with both men and women. I came out as lesbian at 21. Now I’m 34, and haven’t been with a guy since I was 22. The issue is, I’m still very much attracted to men, masculine men. But I also am still attracted to women, and I’m married to one. No one knows that I still find men very attractive, not even my wife. I still wish I could be with a man again. I also know that I was never able to have a decent relationship with a man because of the way I look, dress, and act. Part of me feels like I was always supposed to be born a guy, but another part of me says I just need to be the way I am now, a butch lesbian. Because there’s no way that I could be a “butch” bisexual. No man would ever want to be with that. I hate myself for having these feelings, and do think about just ending it so all these thoughts will stop.

 

I’ve been seeing an LMFT for about 7 months and I literally finally told him that I’m still attracted to guys. But I feel like my anxiety and depression have gotten even worse now because it’s been all I can think about lately. I feel like I’m living a lie, but I don’t know what the truth is for me.

 

Anyone have any thoughts?

[VickySGV]

First thought is depression in there, maybe deeper than just emotional reactions and stress.  I have a form of depression that does that to me every year or two, and it kicks hard.  That needs to be discussed openly and honestly with a therapist on the subject of depression.  Support groups that can help you are in our major and not so major cities here in CA and they can help you focus on not harming yourself and becoming comfortable with your Bi/Trans self. 

 

The next item is to pitch out your shame at having these feelings.  I see people that I can imagine dating from all places on the Trans spectrum.  In my case it is not based only on looks, but on other parts of their personality and shared interests.  I know drag kings who have some of the feelings you describe as well, and do know some Trans man / Cis lesbian couples.  The big item is that you need to get rid of the shame and treating this like it is something to hate and fear about yourself.  Yep, I know people who can see those things as fine for others, but have been on the brink of self harm applying it to themselves.  We are not therapists here, but some of us have been part of this life for longer than we care to admit. I am twice your age and still here.

[Jani]

Hello Mel and welcome.

First and foremost stop hating yourself.  (Vicky beat me to this point)  You are who you are and believe it or not that is well and good.  So you think you might be bi-sexual (if I read this post correctly).  You're correct that you couldn't be a butch bi-sexual, at least not that I'm aware of.  I don't profess to be able to fully explain the LGB part of LGBT but don't confuse your "butch-ness" with your sexual attraction.  Your counselor should be able to help you with these feelings.  Is your attraction just that, attraction and not wanting to take action?  That would not be uncommon.  Its like wanting a fancy car or big house while knowing they wouldn't really be that much fun to own.  Dreaming and engaging in our fantasies can be fun and entertaining but not realistic.  

 

If you were to broach the subject, how would your wife react to this news?  If this is getting to you and depression is getting deeper you need to address it strongly with your counselor and maybe eventually your wife.  

 

Jani

[ShawnaLeigh]

Well your situation is quite different from mine as Zi am a MtF in early transition married to a women I’m at very attracted too.  I have no attraction towards men.  Honestly I do not see anything wrong with your feelings of attraction for both.  Yes you are a butch lesbian.  Married to a wonderful women I am sure.  It’s not wrong to desire the opposite sex either. It’s not a lie to be attracted to men and being married to a women.  Acting on it would be if you never confessed. 
 I can garantee there are cis men out there that would love to know a butch lady like you. Do don’t sell yourself short.  I do not recommend cheating to satisfy your itch but instead discuss it with your wife.  I’m sure she loves you and will understand.  Eventually you will tell her when you are ready and she may surprise you. 
 

I would agree as well with the two ladies above that your depression should be addressed as soon as you can.  It’s hard to figure things out with that crushing you down. Self hate helps nothing too.  Easier said then done but truly it will only drag you further down.  
It is hard to just not think about it all the time and just live your life. I know.  It will nag at you in the back of your mind.  You need to tell someone even just to get it out there where you can work on it.   Keep posting here and vent if you need.   Ask questions and know there are no judgements here.  It’s a great place.  

[Mel]

4 hours ago, Jani said:

Hello Mel and welcome.

First and foremost stop hating yourself.  (Vicky beat me to this point)  You are who you are and believe it or not that is well and good.  So you think you might be bi-sexual (if I read this post correctly).  You're correct that you couldn't be a butch bi-sexual, at least not that I'm aware of.  I don't profess to be able to fully explain the LGB part of LGBT but don't confuse your "butch-ness" with your sexual attraction.  Your counselor should be able to help you with these feelings.  Is your attraction just that, attraction and not wanting to take action?  That would not be uncommon.  Its like wanting a fancy car or big house while knowing they wouldn't really be that much fun to own.  Dreaming and engaging in our fantasies can be fun and entertaining but not realistic.  

 

If you were to broach the subject, how would your wife react to this news?  If this is getting to you and depression is getting deeper you need to address it strongly with your counselor and maybe eventually your wife.  

 

Jani

Thanks for replying Jani,

 

I have had discussions about transitioning with my wife. However they have always been lighthearted and in a “joking” manner. Her response has always been, “I’d still love you, but I love you the way you are. I wouldn’t want you to change.”

 

I am honestly not sure how she would react if I told her I was still attracted men. I’m not sure if she would not care or if she might be threatened by it.

 

I’ve never cheated on my wife, and I don’t want to do that. But I do feel like I would like to be with a man again. Not sure if it is just a sexual desire or if it is more of a relationship desire. I honestly don’t know, partially because I have not acted on it.

 

Transitioning scares the hell out of me, and I don’t know if I could ever actually do it. I’d be afraid of losing my family, and possibly some friends. And I don’t know how it would turn out at work. But mostly, my mom is super religious so I know for a fact I run the risk of some issues arising from that. And I’m also not sure how my dad would react, I’m pretty sure he already struggles with the way I am now.

 

I’ve struggled with depression and anxiety my entire life. I have never been prescribed medication. I need to get into the doctor and try again to get a prescription because I have never had luck with getting one. I’ve always pretty much been denied medication for anxiety, and sleeping. So I’ve been pretty discouraged by that. Doctors have told me to talk to someone. Which I’m doing, but I still struggle every day. And it doesn’t help that I have one of the most stressful jobs ever.

[Belle]

Hi Mel!

 

It's one thing to be loved for who someone perceives you to be. It's another to be loved just because you exist and have intrinsic value. If your wife loves you, not just her perception of you, then you have a lot to gain by revealing more of yourself to her.

 

While it may trigger fears in her and possibly cause some turmoil in your relationship, you will grow closer through the struggle. And in the end you will realize that you can be loved for simply being you. That is a powerful thing.

 

Belle ❤️

 

[Mel]

7 hours ago, VickySGV said:

First thought is depression in there, maybe deeper than just emotional reactions and stress.  I have a form of depression that does that to me every year or two, and it kicks hard.  That needs to be discussed openly and honestly with a therapist on the subject of depression.  Support groups that can help you are in our major and not so major cities here in CA and they can help you focus on not harming yourself and becoming comfortable with your Bi/Trans self. 

 

The next item is to pitch out your shame at having these feelings.  I see people that I can imagine dating from all places on the Trans spectrum.  In my case it is not based only on looks, but on other parts of their personality and shared interests.  I know drag kings who have some of the feelings you describe as well, and do know some Trans man / Cis lesbian couples.  The big item is that you need to get rid of the shame and treating this like it is something to hate and fear about yourself.  Yep, I know people who can see those things as fine for others, but have been on the brink of self harm applying it to themselves.  We are not therapists here, but some of us have been part of this life for longer than we care to admit. I am twice your age and still here.

Part of the problem is I don’t know what I am. I guess that’s part of the reason why I posted on here. I don’t even know if I’m trans. I don’t even know if I’m lesbian or bisexual or what. I feel like I’m being pulled in all these different directions and I’m just not sure where to begin. 

[ShawnaLeigh]

5 hours ago, Mel said:

Part of the problem is I don’t know what I am. I guess that’s part of the reason why I posted on here. I don’t even know if I’m trans. I don’t even know if I’m lesbian or bisexual or what. I feel like I’m being pulled in all these different directions and I’m just not sure where to begin. 

Well try to break those all down to just themselves and try to examine each one on its own.  I do not want it to appear I am making light of your feelings either.  Or minimizing them.  Just trying to remove some of the emotion from it so you can look at each one with logical eyes.

 

You are born female but you are a lesbian.  Fact.

Proven by your love and marriage to your wife.  Your attracted to her, respect her, and talked to her about this, in part, so you are very concerned about her feelings on this too.  This can create fear and then anxiety over hurting her.  Trust in your love for each other.

 

You lean towards the side of being the more masculine side in a lesbian relationship. Fact.  Proven by your self proclaimed "Butch" status in your marriage.

You are in a situation where you can have on both sets of feelings.  She is very feminine as you have said and you are attracted to that.  However being a female by birth and being a butch lesbian is not the same thing.  Your brain still has elements of your female self along with your male self.  Thoughts a feelings can intermingle at times.  Neither is wrong but you feel one is more wrong then the other based on your life choices.  You feel its wrong to feel for men when you are married to a women.  I understand that.  Its like mentally cheating.  It is not.  You have conflicting emotions and feelings inside, as mentioned above, being both female and butch lesbian.

 

So you are NOT a CIS women based on your life choices and how you feel and think inside.  In essence I think you would be considered trans.  Caroline Marie had said in another post "that by definition, even questioning your gender proves you are not CIS".  CIS being totally comfortable with being your birth sex both physically and mentally.  Trans questioning these things or feeling differently about that sex and gender.  However this does not mean you need to transition.  You are already living the life of a male role in your lesbian relationship and have said you are very accepted as such. If you decided to transition to become male would this be so far off from how you live now?  I can not say one way or the other.  But I would guess your loved ones would accept you for your choices as they had in the beginning.

 

Being female by birth can create feelings of attraction toward males.  Fact.

You  are struggling with this feeling as you feel its wrong being a lesbian.  It is not.  It does not make you bisexual any more then my cis-wife is a lesbian married to me as I am transitioning to become fully a women.  However if you decide you desire both sexes then perhaps you are "open" to being bisexual.  This does not mean you have to act on it or cheat on your wife to prove this to yourself.  I have no real suggestions on how you should try and explore and prove this to yourself.  Other then speaking to your wife about this and seeing where that conversation takes you.  Who knows.

I respect you not going down the road of infidelity.  I know it can be hard.  I've been there.  I think it is the right choice.

So that's my take.  I hope I did not offend you in any way.  I also recognize that saying "Fact" may be not completely accurate, but you can fill in the blanks, as I do not know you other then just what you have shared with us here.  

I wish you well and keep us posted.

[TommieAnne]

Hi Mel! Welcome!

I can relate (from the other side of the spectrum) to your complicated feelings.

As others have said, it's important to learn to love yourself. I struggled a very long time learning to accept my attractions to others. Coming to grips with that has brought me peace, although the struggle will occasionally rear its head.

This forum is a great place to connect, learn and inquire. I'm glad you found it!

TA

[Mel]

54 minutes ago, ShawnaLeigh said:

Well try to break those all down to just themselves and try to examine each one on its own.  I do not want it to appear I am making light of your feelings either.  Or minimizing them.  Just trying to remove some of the emotion from it so you can look at each one with logical eyes.

 

You are born female but you are a lesbian.  Fact.

Proven by your love and marriage to your wife.  Your attracted to her, respect her, and talked to her about this, in part, so you are very concerned about her feelings on this too.  This can create fear and then anxiety over hurting her.  Trust in your love for each other.

 

You lean towards the side of being the more masculine side in a lesbian relationship. Fact.  Proven by your self proclaimed "Butch" status in your marriage.

You are in a situation where you can have on both sets of feelings.  She is very feminine as you have said and you are attracted to that.  However being a female by birth and being a butch lesbian is not the same thing.  Your brain still has elements of your female self along with your male self.  Thoughts a feelings can intermingle at times.  Neither is wrong but you feel one is more wrong then the other based on your life choices.  You feel its wrong to feel for men when you are married to a women.  I understand that.  Its like mentally cheating.  It is not.  You have conflicting emotions and feelings inside, as mentioned above, being both female and butch lesbian.

 

So you are NOT a CIS women based on your life choices and how you feel and think inside.  In essence I think you would be considered trans.  Caroline Marie had said in another post "that by definition, even questioning your gender proves you are not CIS".  CIS being totally comfortable with being your birth sex both physically and mentally.  Trans questioning these things or feeling differently about that sex and gender.  However this does not mean you need to transition.  You are already living the life of a male role in your lesbian relationship and have said you are very accepted as such. If you decided to transition to become male would this be so far off from how you live now?  I can not say one way or the other.  But I would guess your loved ones would accept you for your choices as they had in the beginning.

 

Being female by birth can create feelings of attraction toward males.  Fact.

You  are struggling with this feeling as you feel its wrong being a lesbian.  It is not.  It does not make you bisexual any more then my cis-wife is a lesbian married to me as I am transitioning to become fully a women.  However if you decide you desire both sexes then perhaps you are "open" to being bisexual.  This does not mean you have to act on it or cheat on your wife to prove this to yourself.  I have no real suggestions on how you should try and explore and prove this to yourself.  Other then speaking to your wife about this and seeing where that conversation takes you.  Who knows.

I respect you not going down the road of infidelity.  I know it can be hard.  I've been there.  I think it is the right choice.

So that's my take.  I hope I did not offend you in any way.  I also recognize that saying "Fact" may be not completely accurate, but you can fill in the blanks, as I do not know you other then just what you have shared with us here.  

I wish you well and keep us posted.

ShawnaLeigh,

 

I really appreciate your insight on this. I’m not offended by anything you said. And what you say makes a lot of sense when you break it down like that. 
 

I would never cheat on my wife, but I do wish somehow I could explore the bisexual part of me. But I know that actually acting on it, with or without her would be detrimental to the commitment we have made to each other. I’m not one to believe in any kind of open relationship. I know I do need to talk to her about it...especially because the anxiety from it seems to be worsening, thus causing the depression to worsen.
 
I guess it’s mostly a fear thing and not wanting to admit to her or anyone else that I need to “come out” again. Coming out was difficult as it is. Having to do it all over again in another way seems so daunting. Especially if I really did want to explore transitioning. Which is something I research every couple years or so. I’ve researched it every once in a while throughout my entire adulthood. I also wonder what it would do to my relationship. Just not sure if it would change the dynamic of it in a good way, or a negative way.

 

I do think transitioning would be different and mostly difficult for other people to understand. Which is part of the reason why I’ve struggled with considering it. 

You’re right though, I need to examine these feelings one thing at a time. It’s so overwhelming thinking about all of it and it all catches up to me. I just don’t feel comfortable as myself, I pretty much never have. So I have to figure out how break it down for myself to really understand me.

 

[Mel]

43 minutes ago, TammyAnne said:

Hi Mel! Welcome!

I can relate (from the other side of the spectrum) to your complicated feelings.

As others have said, it's important to learn to love yourself. I struggled a very long time learning to accept my attractions to others. Coming to grips with that has brought me peace, although the struggle will occasionally rear its head.

This forum is a great place to connect, learn and inquire. I'm glad you found it!

TA

Thank you TammyAnne