Jump to content
  • Welcome to the TransPulse Forums!

    We offer a safe, inclusive community for transgender and gender non-conforming folks, as well as their loved ones, to find support and information.  Join today!

Krisvm

Relationship As Seen By Others

Recommended Posts

Krisvm

This is more a rant than anything else but wanted to get it out. 

As I am appearing more feminine more regularly there is an issue that is starting to annoy me and upset my wife. When we are out and about strangers no longer see us a couple. 

 

Examples of this include:

- Going out to a restaurant on a date and when I offer to pay the waitress said "Isn't it so nice you are willing to pay for her."

- When we areb asked for both our names by service people they are visibly surprised we have the same surname. 

- My wife was upset and crying on a bench so I hug her and comfort her. Someone came up to me and said "I see your friend is upset, is there anything I can do to help?" 

 

Whilst we are not super PDA we still hold hands as we walk, hug and kiss occasionally and are affectionate to each other but doesn't seem to help in people's minds. It is rather frustrating. 

 

Has anyone else experienced this? 

Share this post


Link to post
Jackie C.

Could be an English thing? People here are too stuck in their own business to pay Susan and I much attention, even if we're being gross in public. I was talking to an older (70's) Lebanese man the other day and his only reaction to me mentioning that, "No, my wife and I don't have kids," was to ask, "Do you love her?" I answered in the affirmative and we moved on with the conversation. Nobody's said a word (while I'm in earshot anyway) in restaurants.

 

I suppose it could be age related as well. Two middle-age lesbians probably attract less attention than we would if we were younger. That or they just assume that we're friends. Granted that would be friends that hold hands and kiss, but maybe we're just really, really good friends. In general though, I find the public to be pretty chill about the two of us.

 

Hugs!

Share this post


Link to post
ShawnaLeigh

I’ve yet to go outside the house dressed feminine.  No less with my wife.  Sorry I have no real world experience to draw from.  
However I can tell you I would feel the same.  Almost.  
I suppose I would expect most folks to treat us that way.  It amazes me how few same sex couples are not recognized as such.  Unless there is blatant PDA and then most wont bat an eye.  At least in VT.  
I know for a fact that most don’t care here.  Some do and will remark but I personally have never heard anyone say anything homophobic in my presence.  
I suppose I would be happier to not be recognized as a couple period then to be ridiculed as a trans couple. Either way it’s not anyone’s business.  I understand people making mistakes too.  It happens.  Quite a few folks may of never dealt with a trans person or couple and not know what to say.  Or to nervous to make a mistake.  
I wouldn’t worry about it unless it’s consistent and obvious.  Jmo. 

Share this post


Link to post
Carolyn Marie

My wife was really nervous about the very issues you raised, Kris.  She didn't start realizing how little people seemed to notice or care until we started being out and about more often.  I think her real concern was whether and how well I would pass.  The first time we sat down in a restaurant together and the waitress said, "How are you ladies doing today?" that really seemed to ease her mind. 

 

As we've traveled the U.S. and the world together, we mostly pass ourselves off as a couple, or sometimes as friends, and less often as married lesbians.  We also hold hands but rarely kiss in public.  What people think of us doesn't matter much any more, as long as they leave us be and don't stare.  The staring bothers both of us, but I've never confronted anyone over it and hope it never gets to the point where I feel the need.  We've been on motorcoach tours and cruises and never had a real problem.  Most people just don't seem bothered by us, and we go out of our way to be friendly with everyone.  That seems to really help. 

 

My wife wondered if we would be able to live out our lives the way we had always dreamed.  With very few exceptions we've been able to do exactly that.  With the advent of gay marriage in the U.S., its easier than it might have been otherwise.  I hope that can alleviate some of your and your wife's concerns and fears.  If you have more questions please feel free to PM me.

 

HUGS

 

Carolyn Marie

Share this post


Link to post
Krisvm

Thank you all for what you have said. Is good to hear. 

Share this post


Link to post
Charlize

I have certainly lived through this one.  My wife hated the idea of being seen as a lesbian but in time we have found it isn't an issue.  Folks seem to see us as friends and we certainly are just that!  Perhaps it is easier as an older couple.  There are certainly awkward times.  My descriptors vary from "my wife" to "my best friend".

 

Hugs,

 

Charlize

Share this post


Link to post
ShawnaLeigh
51 minutes ago, Charlize said:

My wife hated the idea of being seen as a lesbian but in time we have found it isn't an issue.  Folks seem to see us as friends and we certainly are just that!  Perhaps it is easier as an older couple.  There are certainly awkward times.  My descriptors vary from "my wife" to "my best friend".

I am praying my wife gets to this point because this is exactly why she keeps telling me once I am presenting as female full time we go from "Married" to "Just Friends" in every sense of the word. 

She refuses to accept being called a lesbian or even being perceived as one.  She says she cannot picture us shopping "as friends" being married.  It would have to be as friends and nothing more.  She does not want a women or a wife.  Though she says she does not want another husband either.  That she is done with it all.

(OMG I ruined her)

Seriously though, this alone puts me off because not only is she not "really" accepting of me, doesn't love "me" enough to try and make it work, but now my community too.  Where else will it lead?  I will eventually make LBGT friends locally too.  Will that be an issue for her? I don't know but I can not change her mind for her.  Just be patient and see how it develops.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Jani
9 hours ago, Carolyn Marie said:

My wife was really nervous about the very issues you raised, Kris.  She didn't start realizing how little people seemed to notice or care until we started being out and about more often.

This is my experience as well.  We have always been greeted in restaurants and such as two women.  Maybe if we were two guys it would be different, but...   My wife totally avoids as PDA and I understand but it seems like it's not a big deal.  When I've been out with my sister or mother, we hug and kiss when we part and think nothing of it.  

 

As you age and mature in a relationship, a deep friendship is what you strive for IMO.  Yes we know we are a couple but  no one else seems to see this and its all right.  

Share this post


Link to post
tracy_j

This was perhaps the main thing my partner worried about, and still possibly does at times. I am not sure whether she has come across anything but I have been openly suggested as lesbian once. I used to worry more about her as I remember us being referred to as 'two ladies', which is something she finds hard to accept. On a good point though she was far less troubled when her son (my stepson) came out as gay as she said it was not openly obvious to everyone like I was. At least he had fewer issues.

 

Tracy

Share this post


Link to post
ShawnaLeigh

I can only imagine what a ciswomen that has married a man she loves, till death do you part, will feel about staying with a trans women in a marriage.
Actually I can not imagine it as I have tried.  She asked me how I would feel if I were not trans,”just a regular guy” and she came to me saying she was trans.  Would I be ok with that??  A natural first reaction would be no.  But it’s hard to try and place myself in that scenario   being who I am.  I don’t know what a cis male would feel.  But I would think love transcends all.  
I personally would be ok with it as I love the person she is and would do so just as much the person he would become.  
Im very open minded and really don’t care what others think but not everyone is.  

This is my biggest snag with me understand and being accepting to my wife’s views and feeling now.  She says she loves me and she does support and help me.  She claims she even understands. Though for me the jury is out on that still.   Our life together has been really good.  Even after I came out and we got past the shock of it.  She continues to say she will not stay married to me once I am transitioned.  It seems like a hypocrite way to think on her part.  Like she only love the male me.  Which is not who I am inside.  Or have ever been really regardless of how well I played the role.  

Apparently love does not transcend all.  Just some.  
 

Share this post


Link to post
Jackie C.
1 hour ago, ShawnaLeigh said:

I can only imagine what a ciswomen that has married a man she loves, till death do you part, will feel about staying with a trans women in a marriage.
Actually I can not imagine it as I have tried.  She asked me how I would feel if I were not trans,”just a regular guy” and she came to me saying she was trans.  Would I be ok with that??  A natural first reaction would be no.  But it’s hard to try and place myself in that scenario   being who I am.  I don’t know what a cis male would feel.  But I would think love transcends all.  
I personally would be ok with it as I love the person she is and would do so just as much the person he would become.  
Im very open minded and really don’t care what others think but not everyone is.  

This is my biggest snag with me understand and being accepting to my wife’s views and feeling now.  She says she loves me and she does support and help me.  She claims she even understands. Though for me the jury is out on that still.   Our life together has been really good.  Even after I came out and we got past the shock of it.  She continues to say she will not stay married to me once I am transitioned.  It seems like a hypocrite way to think on her part.  Like she only love the male me.  Which is not who I am inside.  Or have ever been really regardless of how well I played the role.  

Apparently love does not transcend all.  Just some.  
 

 

No, I can put myself in those shoes. They're uncomfortable, but I can see how it would unfold. I'd be hurt at first, because my wife would be leaving me. I'm gynosexual, meaning I'm attracted to people who present as female. Facial and body hair make me physically ill and I don't like the way men smell. At all.

However, I love her and would like to keep her in my life. I think we could still be friends, but there would be hurt on her side... I guess his side... too because I wouldn't be able to continue the physical side of our relationship. There would be a slow ... well, not THAT slow, testosterone works faster than estrogen ... tearing apart as the HRT swept my wife away from me and replaced her with a guy. Again, a guy who could be my best friend, but he couldn't be my lover anymore. We'd probably try a couple of times to see if we could re-ignite the spark. We might even manage to make it work for a while, but eventually we'd drift apart because we needed different things from our lovers to be happy.

I'd support his decision every step of the way though. I want him to be happy. I'd just be sad that we couldn't be happy together anymore. And now I'm crying.

 

So yeah, that's probably pretty close to how it would go down if Susan came out as a trans-man. I'd support him every step of the way and love him as much as I could, but there are some things that a man, even a man who I love, can't give me in a relationship. I don't think I could have the same sense of connection once the T had done its work.

 

Just my two cents. I realize that it's hypocritical to say, "Yeah, I probably couldn't do it," when my wife has been so accepting, but unfortunately, that's the way I feel. I'm not always a great person. There'd be some hope (I mean I'm about a 4 on the Kinsey Scale, so it's not out of the question), but odds are pretty good that I just wouldn't be attracted to him sexually any more. At the end of the day, I like breasts.

 

Hugs!

Share this post


Link to post
KymmieL

While I have gone out dressed. I have yet to with my wife. Don't think she would anyway. While I do know that when I decided to go full time she will be getting the papers ready. She has said she wouldn't hold my hand if we where out together when I was dressed in fem. I think we would stay friends, but I couldn't live in the same town as her and not be with her. My love for her is that deep.

 

Maybe that is why I will be moving when I come out full time as a woman.

 

Kymmie

Share this post


Link to post
Jackie C.

That makes me sad Kymmie. People can't help how they feel, but it's hard to be abandoned by a loved one like that for just being more honest about who you are. I hope she changes her mind as she sees that you're not going to turn into some kind of monster.

 

Hugs!

Share this post


Link to post
ShawnaLeigh
59 minutes ago, KymmieL said:

While I have gone out dressed. I have yet to with my wife. Don't think she would anyway. While I do know that when I decided to go full time she will be getting the papers ready. She has said she wouldn't hold my hand if we where out together when I was dressed in fem. I think we would stay friends, but I couldn't live in the same town as her and not be with her. My love for her is that deep.

 

Maybe that is why I will be moving when I come out full time as a woman.

 

Kymmie

As you know sweetie I am right in the same boat rowing in circles.  My wife has basically told me the same things.  I don’t blame her for her feelings but that doesn’t make it easier either.  I don’t think I will need to leave my state but I agree I would not do well seeing her with someone else. 
I sincerely hope we stay friends at least.  Those are in short supply for me.  

Share this post


Link to post
KathyLauren

My wife and I enjoy going out together.  No one thinks anything of it, and we don't get stared at.  The only time the question of whether or not we are a couple comes up is when we are asked if we want one bill or two.

 

My wife was a bit weirded out about being a lesbian through no choice of her own.  She considers herself a "lesbian by marriage".  But she has no reservations about us remaining a couple.  As far as she is concerned, my transition is part of the "for better or for worse" that she signed up for.  I am not sure I could have done the same had the positions been reversed, so I consider myself very lucky.

 

My wife likes to be bratty.  Sometimes when we are walking down the street and she spots someone looking disapprovingly at us, she will hold my hand, just to give them something to stare at.

Share this post


Link to post
Kendal01

Hi, I am new to the forum and not sure if this is the best place to post this I have a question.

I am married and currently transitioning, with surgery scheduled in a month. My wife, so far is staying but is not a lesbian and says she will not call me her wife or partner nor her husband. Anyone else in this circumstance? If so what is your spouse going to call you.

 

Share this post


Link to post
VickySGV
3 hours ago, Kendal01 said:

If so what is your spouse going to call you.

 

Hopefully by your name and titles you prefer.  My Ex and I had been divorced for years for other reasons but were co-parents for our children (now in their 40's) and interact with each other regularly.  We simply say we are related through the children and use first names and if really necessary, say "extended family member" which is as much as anyone else needs to know.

Share this post


Link to post
Jackie C.

Hey @Kendal01! I'm having surgery next week. Susan calls me her spouse or a pet name most of the time. She's pretty good with pronouns and only slips up once and a while. Really, I couldn't ask for a better partner. She's decided she's OK with being "straight plus me."

 

Hugs!

Share this post


Link to post
ShawnaLeigh
12 hours ago, Kendal01 said:

Hi, I am new to the forum and not sure if this is the best place to post this I have a question.

I am married and currently transitioning, with surgery scheduled in a month. My wife, so far is staying but is not a lesbian and says she will not call me her wife or partner nor her husband. Anyone else in this circumstance? If so what is your spouse going to call you.

 

First.  Welcome to TP.  I am glad you are here!

I am currently transitioning and have had this same conversation with my wife just last weekend.  She says she is not going to use my new name nor the pronouns until I am fully presenting female and we are in divorce proceedings.  (Its a long story)

Its an attempt to keep "her side" of everyone uninformed of us or my transition as long as possible.  She does not plan to tell anyone yet or as little as possible even after we divorce.  Since I have very little contact with anyone she works with or her side of the family then I am ok with this.  To a point.

Other then this little sticky point she has been very supportive of me in the privacy of our home, with all my side of the family and friends and accepting that this is something I need to do to be healthy and happy.  She is even helping me with a lot of this and buying several things to wear or use as a women.  

Afterwards she will call me by my new name and I suppose refer to me as her Ex.  

Share this post


Link to post
Susan R
On 1/28/2020 at 7:39 PM, Kendal01 said:

she will not call me her wife or partner nor her husband. Anyone else in this circumstance? If so what is your spouse going to call you.

Welcome to our community, Kendal.  Congrats also on you upcoming surgery.

 

What I wasn’t clear about in your post was whether or not your spouse referred to you as simply her “spouse”.  Will she convey any importance of relationship or some marital connection in a similar way as “partner, wife, or husband” would?  It is possible she may not yet be comfortable conveying your relationship to others at any level.

 

Right after going full time, I knew my wife was a bit hestitant the first few times as she introduced me to someone as her spouse.  She got over it fast.  I realize it was a huge paradigm shift for her.


My wife refers to me as “spouse” or “wife” and it seems to be pretty effortless for her now.  She knows it outs us immediately as lesbian and/or me as trans.  We are fine with both and both are accurate, so why not?  On very rare occasions when referring to a past event or memory, my wife may use my dead name only for clarification.  I’ve never corrected her when she does this because it was, after all, my name at that time.  In public she refers to me as just Susan and other times she will add the connection but saying “my spouse, Susan”.

 

Susan R🌷

Share this post


Link to post
Kendal01

Thanks so much everyone for your quick responses.   I think she is uncomfortable, conveying a relationship as it would peg her as  a lesbian, which she is very opposed to. To me the relationship is important, but i]I understand her side.  In an attempt I said how about "former husband" and it almost rang home (to me it was better than ex.)  but still looking for a better word than "former".  

Share this post


Link to post
Jackie C.

I'm not sure that calling it anything besides "your relationship," is important. People get too hung up on labels. Every relationship is different and we don't really need a complete taxonomy to describe everything from heterosexual cis relationship to genderqueer squidsexual. "Spouse" is fine. "Partner" is good if she doesn't want to assign a gender to it and be a little ambiguous about what you are to each other.

 

Give it some time. She probably needs to get used to it in her head. So long as the relationship continues, she'll settle into calling you something that makes you both comfortable.

 

Hugs! 

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Who's Online   11 Members, 0 Anonymous, 143 Guests (See full list)

    • KymmieL
    • Mike P
    • A. Dillon
    • ShawnaLeigh
    • KathyLauren
    • Jackie C.
    • Cyndee
    • VickySGV
    • Petra Jane
    • MaryMary
    • Ms Maddie
  • Topics With Zero Replies

  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      70,017
    • Total Posts
      633,348
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      6,306
    • Most Online
      8,356

    Mike P
    Newest Member
    Mike P
    Joined
  • Today's Birthdays

    1. Carolyn Marie
      Carolyn Marie
      (66 years old)
    2. Makayla2019
      Makayla2019
    3. SteamGirlEva
      SteamGirlEva
      (30 years old)
  • Posts

    • Jackie C.
      Neat! Technically, my first Doctor was Pertwee (Spiders of Mars), but Baker is the Doctor I imprinted on.   Hugs!
    • Jackie C.
      Just because your day to day look is much the same, it doesn't mean that you still can't dress up for special occasions. My "uniform" most days is jeans and a t-shirt. The same as it's been since high school. Back in the stone age. When giant lizards walked the Earth, cell phones were about the size of a briefcase and computers ran on punch cards.   OK, PC's were starting to become a thing, but seriously, 5K of RAM.   Anyway, it's kind of expected for women to wear different outfits depending on the circumstance. I wouldn't wear jeans and a t-shirt to a funeral... well, not anymore. I'd add some accents and wear something nice. Maybe one of my pairs of uncomfortable shoes. A nice top with either a skirt or some pants.   In any case, Shawna's right. A big part of this journey is discovering what kind of woman you want to be. There are a lot of options. So many more choices than men get. You need to explore a bit. Nobody gets to figure out who they are right out of the box. Once you explain that to your wife, I'm sure she'll understand. After all, this is a learning experience for you too.   Hugs!
    • A. Dillon
      My dad was in the navy working with submarine's nuclear reactor, stationed in Honolulu, for 4 years. Thank you for your service, and welcome to out community!
    • Jackie C.
      I am SO tired of the hot flashes. They didn't start until I'd been off HRT for about two weeks preparing for my bottom surgery. They're mostly at night but I sweat through EVERYTHING. I've been back on my regular dose for a week or so now, but it can take up to two months for hormone levels to normalize so...   At least my sweat doesn't have the smell it did before I started transitioning. If I was living in a cloud of the musky stuff, I'd probably die. At least I'd shower and do the laundry more.   Hugs!
    • Cyndee
      @KathyLauren gotta love it when that happens    @Donnie_1961 wonderful pictures Donnie, thanks for sharing    Rain here today, what else is new ? Coffee tastes great though.   Have a lovely day all   C
    • ShawnaLeigh
      OMG women you are gorgeous! No wonder you are so confident. Very nice smile.  
    • KathyLauren
      We had to take the hound to the vet to have a growth on her tail removed.  Since she had to be there early, we had breakfast out.  Strawberry waffles, Mmm!   Since we were in town anyway, I went to the government office to get new license plates for the car.  They lent me a screwdriver to remove the old ones, but it didn't fit the bolts.  A nice young man in the next parking stall got out a wrench and removed them for me.  He was still there when I came out with the new plates, so he helped again with his wrench.   I don't mind a bit when men are chivalrous.   Regards, Kathy
    • ShawnaLeigh
      I have struggled with this myself when first coming out to my wife.  I had no clear answers and the "time line" questions that kept coming up I answered based on generic time frames for certain physical changes due to HRT.  I had no real idea what my time lines were or even are right now as my body and mind continue to change week by week.  But I threw out answers before I was clear on what the true answers were to try and defuse the situation back then and give her something to chew on.      I had to explain this again just last weekend because she threw it in my face that I was saying a year or two until I would feel comfortable presenting full female and 6 months into it I am saying now is a good time.  I truly did not think I would be ready or had the right mind set to do so this quickly but I can not be blamed for how my transition is effecting me.   Try to think of it this way. Yes you knew something was going on with you for a very long time, years even, but you clearly did not know "exactly" what it was and your journey begins with discovery of certain things dealing with transition.  That's after you have accepted there is something going on and its real.   Explain that any time lines or feelings from a few months ago may not apply now because you are changing both physically and mentally.  Again you have no idea how fast or slow these changes can occur Try to set it up as "I will tell you as changes and mind set changes happen asap and keep you informed as best I can." I mean you can not expect to explain everything up front and answer questions when you don't know what it all is yet.   I understand you want things to go smoothly and with as little drama and stress but you are learning so give yourself time too.
    • Willow
      Good morning everyone    had two cups of black dark roast this morning.   @Donnie_1961 those are wonderful pictures you posted. Very natural.   my stress level is rather high right now.  And when my stress level gets this high I tend to freeze.  No, not cold temperature but unable to do the things I need to do.  I’m in the middle of a project at home and I just can’t get going on the next step.     Stress also makes my dysphoria worse.  This much stress over whelms my anti depression meds, but even if I could take an extra, it takes a week to make a difference and usually by then I’m naturally better.  I just have to find a way to push through this.    Willow
    • KymmieL
      Good Friday morning everyone. Well my Friday anyway. Actually slept good last night only had to get up once to pee. I wore sleep pants and seemed to help keep me warm. vs what I usually wear which is very little. Then again We didn't have a cold wind pounding on the bedroom wall all night.   Now I know the reason I hate closing. It can be boring. which it was last night. Got most of the closing done early then nothing.   Everyone stay warm as normal.   Kymmie
    • Aidan5
      Welcome to the forum!   I think it's awesome that you are here and my dad is also a navy chief!! I find it really cool. 
    • TammyAnne
      Good morning everyone! Beautiful sunrise this morning, coffee is finished and I'm feeling energetic. Well, a little anyway. Been sleeping well the past few nights. But also having interesting dreams in which I go in for Orchidectomy surgery. One dream had me having three testicles to remove! I'm about to get my day started, so let me wish you all well! TA
    • TammyAnne
      Aloha chief! Welcome to our little ohana! TA
    • Charlize
      As an old Tom Baker fan i couldn't help but share this.  What fun!  Maybe a long pink, white and baby blue scarf?   https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/02/23/doctor-who-rebecca-root-first-transgender-companion-boy-meets-girl/?fbclid=IwAR31VTt3aSUTETpbz2AmIojGk3Kf4M4XXgCwOS9dH1svrMc5Es4cPKl859c   Hugs,   Charlize    
    • secondlook
      I have a new problem now. When I came out to my wife, I had only been aware of my true self for a couple of weeks. My thoughts up until coming out had been dominated by how I would explain it to her, how I could be sensitive and understanding and try to soften the blow as best I could. That meant that I hadn't done a lot of thinking about how I wanted to explore becoming the real me going forward.   So when she started asking me questions, I didn't have a lot of great answers, and now it seems that something I said that I thought was true at the time is now not entirely true. I told her that my need to become a woman physically wasn't about cross-dressing, that I had never cross-dressed and that I wasn't thinking about it in the future. I told her I could envision myself wearing largely the same kinds of outfits that I do now, jeans and button-down shirts.   But now as I research and come to grips with the fact that any kind of physical transformation is years in the future, no matter how well I deal with the obstacles in front of me, the idea of seeing how feminine I can make myself with my current body becomes more and more appealing. I'm reading fashion articles with interest for the first time in my life. I've got a number of feminine pieces of clothing and accessories sitting in my Amazon shopping cart.   I worry that disclosing this reversal, so soon after the shock of my coming out, will undermine the remarkable emotional progress that she has made up to now. But as long as I keep it quiet, I'm being deceptive again. This is the catch-22: my exploration of this new side of myself seems to be happening faster than she can emotionally process it, leaving me in the position of having to choose between damaging revelations or merciful deception. These seem like equally bad options. 
  • Upcoming Events

×
×
  • Create New...