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Passing is when people start the Pronoun shift on their own.


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I find tis topic very interesting. While i agree with most of you," Beautiful is in the eye  of the beholder". I also can relate to Teri. 

 I have being 24/7 now for 2yrs. Today was my 2yr annv on HRT.

At the beginning i would be piss if someone misgender me to the point were i would verbal enforce my gender on then. But I did not have the confidence i do now.

Like Teri said , I no longer care cause i pass all the time now and when i don't 100% pass fem, cause my voice or I am wearing a tight shirt and my shoulder show, i still have the mojo to let it not matter to me.

Wow 67 gender -what the heck-....Alexxiss is right no wonder people are having a hard time with the TG community

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Teri Anne

You know I have found religious to be accepting even up in the mountains of Eastern Kentucky the rural people treated me and others like me just fine. They were respectful and asked questions but there was no hate whatsoever.

The most heat and hate I have encountered has come from LGBT people.

Radical feminists don't care much for us either. That has been my experience anyway.

 

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Teri Anne

I read somewhere about 60 something genders and I thought what the heck are they talking about?

There are many ways to present sure but 60 + genders? I am not to sure about that LOL.

 

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MaryMary
22 minutes ago, Teri Anne said:

You know I have found religious to be accepting even up in the mountains of Eastern Kentucky the rural people treated me and others like me just fine. They were respectful and asked questions but there was no hate whatsoever.

The most heat and hate I have encountered has come from LGBT people.

Radical feminists don't care much for us either. That has been my experience anyway.

 

 

yeah. I always say that I'm used to the prejudice of cis people but I find LGBT landscape very confusing and hard to navigate. There's many prejudices within the LGBT community too.

I had very band encounter with radical feminist, I would say they are the only one that I trully felt treatened by, they were out to get me ... like for real, lol

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MaryMary

That being said I feel we are getting far from the original topic ;)

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Teri Anne

A trans friend and I were parking my car and headed to a pride event and a group of radical feminists did threaten us and to stay safe we just left.

 

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Teri Anne

To get back on point passing is a huge thing when you first come out or if you are just a CDer.

Over time you realize passing is is more about your attitude and how you handle yourself in public.

 

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Alexxiss

Agreed Teri. I’m sorry to hear your experiences with radical feminists, both of you. As someone who underwent conversion therapy from my Christian family, I have to say that was the most oppressed I’ve ever been.

Yes back to the point. Personality has a lot to do with passing. You can be beautiful and young but if you are unlikeable it’s unlikely someone will respect your pronouns.

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Teri Anne

Personality is the key. Be nice to people and more than likely people will be nice back to you.

I have seen some younger trans people get up into non trans people faces demanding they be referred to as miss or ma'am and cussing them like a sailor.

To me that is 1. rude 2. not very lady like if you are presenting as a female that is.

Then they expect people to be nice to them.Most of the time acting like that makes things worse.

Maybe even the trans person getting harmed.

I think its basic lack of respect the younger people have these days.

 

 

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21 hours ago, Teri Anne said:

The younger crowd have this need to be a part of something or a group of people just like them.


This is what I attribute the explosion of pronouns to. People have such a need to be “special,” they all seem to make up their own rules on the spot...then get offended if everyone doesn’t immediately know what term they’ve made up this week.

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8 hours ago, Teri Anne said:

A trans friend and I were parking my car and headed to a pride event and a group of radical feminists did threaten us and to stay safe we just left.

 


And this is one of those things that shows the current feminist movement is a joke..to me anyway.

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Alexxiss

I found this in the Pinned thread on the Transgender Forum, titled “Problematic Language.

 

“I think one of the big issues comes from within the community itself.  "Boy mode"  "Girl mode"  "boy brain" "girl brain"  "Target Gender" "Preferred Pronouns" and so on.

We are not becoming our gender.  We ARE our gender.  We're (some of us) just trying to be cuter versions of our gender ^_^

 

At the end of the day it doesn’t matter how much you pass and to who. It’s about finding people who acknowledge your competency as a human being to analyze yourself and conclude your gender, even if that means you are one of the other 65.

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Teri  Mary i agree with you both. When I every I am in a Lesbian bar or Gay Bar in noho or West Hollywood..I feel super uncomfortable.

Alexxiss Dig that Quote . Cause to be honest that exactly how i feel.

I trying just be a cutie version of my real gender

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I think it's interesting to see the generational differences within our community. While it's true that coming out and being openly trans now is a lot easier than it may have been ten, twenty, however many years ago I don't think it's a walk in the park today either. Between me and most of the other trans folks around my age that I know, most of us recognize that the whole "67 genders" isn't really the best way to classify things. Still, we all agree that gender can be a little more nebulous than just a male-female binary. Part of my transition was identifying as genderfluid for a while because I was afraid I'd never "pass" as a woman, and without having non-binary people in my life I wouldn't have had the freedom to explore my gender in the way that I did at the time that I did. While ultimately I came to terms with being a trans woman, I still think it's important to recognize and keep non-binary people as part of our community and the larger conversations we have about trans liberation. 

 

As far as pronouns and "passing" goes, most of us are pretty nonconfrontational in general. It's easier to go through life without having to get into an in-depth explanations of the complexities of gender with the cashier that calls me sir when I'm buying groceries. In my personal experience the only times that I get a little grouchy about being misgendered is when someone that knows me well or that I've already explained that I'm a woman to continues to use the wrong pronouns. For the most part I let the people around me make whatever assumptions they feel like about my gender, but if it's someone important to me or that I'll have to deal with frequently I don't think there's anything wrong with being assertive about being gendered properly. 

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Alexxiss
33 minutes ago, Rorelai said:

I still think it's important to recognize and keep non-binary people as part of our community and the larger conversations we have about trans liberation. 

I like this. It's important that we don't fall into the footsteps of the intolerant people who came before us. We are no better than the man who says, "Men are men and women are women. If you're born a man, I don't care what you've done to yourself. No amount of surgery will ever make you a woman! You're a man!" We're no better than that guy when we ourselves throw up our hands and reject that some people identify as one of the other 65 genders. We become no better than the transphobes who oppressed us and the transpeople who paved the way for us.

I agree with you Rorelai that it's much easier to let the cashier misgender us because fighting every battle that comes our way is exhausting and possibly futile. Live and let live.

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1 hour ago, Alexxiss said:

 

I agree with you Rorelai that it's much easier to let the cashier misgender us because fighting every battle that comes our way is exhausting and possibly futile. Live and let live.

Yeah, I agree.

I've never been very confrontational, and this sort of of thing just doesn't seem worth it.

I know who I am.  I don't need to fight about it.

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Teri Anne

I know who and what I am and it really isn't worth fighting over with a person that will probably never agree with you anyway.

 

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Alexxiss
47 minutes ago, Teri Anne said:

I know who and what I am and it really isn't worth fighting over with a person that will probably never agree with you anyway.

 

Yeah, or remember you in 20 seconds anyway.

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Hey Alexxiss

I don't agree with ; "We are always going to be a male regardless what we do to our self" statement.

To be honest. my goal is to become a CIS woman.

I want to get to the point were i don't worry about the mis gendering because I would have done all the surgeries and truly converted  to my true gender. 

Right now i get more upsets with someone who doesn't know ( AKA the cashier) calling me sir when i am presenting as female. Because I know they are being hateful and disrespectful of me.  Cause in their minds it gives them  power over me and I wouldn't have that with someone i don't know. As pause , to someone whose know  me for a life time and mis gender me bye mistake or call me bye my dead by mistake. Those people are not being hateful or disrespectful and i will educate then and eventually we will get it straight 

 

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8 hours ago, Lexi C said:

Hey Alexxiss

I don't agree with ; "We are always going to be a male regardless what we do to our self" statement.

To be honest. my goal is to become a CIS woman.

I want to get to the point were i don't worry about the mis gendering because I would have done all the surgeries and truly converted  to my true gender. 

Right now i get more upsets with someone who doesn't know ( AKA the cashier) calling me sir when i am presenting as female. Because I know they are being hateful and disrespectful of me.  Cause in their minds it gives them  power over me and I wouldn't have that with someone i don't know. As pause , to someone whose know  me for a life time and mis gender me bye mistake or call me bye my dead by mistake. Those people are not being hateful or disrespectful and i will educate then and eventually we will get it straight 

 

Lexi your perspective makes a lot of sense too. I think as with everything the context of being misgendered matters a lot. In my personal life I pass almost all the time now, so it definitely bites on when someone uses the wrong pronouns for me no matter who it is. I've taken the steps I can to present as a woman, and even on days that I hardly try at all most people still can read me as a girl, so sometimes it feels intentional when someone misgenders me. Most of the time though it's not worth the effort it takes to correct people, but one time I did snap at a girl that kept using he/him to refer to me while we were at a leadership retreat. Having gone through the day with people that had known me since the very beginning of my transition but weren't super close to me that kept misgendering me, either intentionally or because they didn't know better, I finally reached my breaking point and lashed out. I hate the stereotype of being "that militant transgender" for correcting people when they get it wrong, but I think what a lot of people don't realize is that there's countless times that we don't correct people that builds up before we get to the point that we need to speak up. 

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Teri Anne

Intentional yes say something unintentional correct them in a nice way.

Never be "that militant transgender" because that really does not help your/ our cause.

I have found the militant types do get the attention but they also receive the most hate from people in public.

My whole intent in life is to be me also be the best me I can be and I do that by being respectful of others.

I do want to be seen as a cis woman of course but some can see the male markers we that have a hard time ridding ourselves of. I tend to think misgendering will happen to me every so often for the rest of my life and being pissed about it is just a waste of time.

 

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Alexxiss
11 hours ago, Lexi C said:

Hey Alexxiss

I don't agree with ; "We are always going to be a male regardless what we do to our self" statement.

To be honest. my goal is to become a CIS woman.

I want to get to the point were i don't worry about the mis gendering because I would have done all the surgeries and truly converted  to my true gender. 

Right now i get more upsets with someone who doesn't know ( AKA the cashier) calling me sir when i am presenting as female. Because I know they are being hateful and disrespectful of me.  Cause in their minds it gives them  power over me and I wouldn't have that with someone i don't know. As pause , to someone whose know  me for a life time and mis gender me bye mistake or call me bye my dead by mistake. Those people are not being hateful or disrespectful and i will educate then and eventually we will get it straight 

 

Yeah just reread and you’ll see that I never said that ?

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Ms Maddie

It bothers me to be misgendered intentionally so as to draw others attention, so they won't be fooled by me.

Like they think they're doing a public service announcement.

 

So i've been just not saying anything in this situation.  Nothing.  I go mute.  Which leads to people thinking your dangerous or suspicious, and they actually sent a psych worker out to my car to keep me from driving away.  

 

I'd say something, but its backfired on me every single time I've tried to assertively correct someone.  Like they become offended for being corrected, and then they take extra measures to ridicule or attack me.  So I don't do it!

 

I don't believe in arguing and correcting people.  I want to be gendered authentically, without coercion, and often do.  

Sometimes even people who knew me WELL don't recognize me,  and gender me female lately.  I think I blend in ok, except that I  in an area where I kind of stick out, and people recognize who I am, regardless of how together my presentation is.

The only people I correct are folks who know me and my situation and persist to misgender me in front of others.  To them I say something quietly on the side about it, and ask them to please try to refer to me as female.

 

It's boiling over tho.

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patience my dear - at least you are being gendered correctly more often and that is the right direction - asking your acquaintances on the side is also a good moveand will keep moving you  along in the right direction. I don't fool anyone so I've an incredibly long road to go - so smile  and be happy your are coming into your own.

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Teri Anne

Its just part of a long and sometimes difficult journey we have chosen to take.

I can't expect everyone I have know thru out life and people I don't know  and people I just met to get it right all the time.

One time I had a very elderly woman watch me and a male friend as we were shopping.

We came out of the store and sat fairly close to where she was sitting with her grand kids. (Mall sitting area).

She walked up to me and said excuse me dear I was watching you and your husband in that store and was trying to figure out if you are really a male dressed as a woman?

I could not get angry at her for asking because she was being brutally  honest.

I said yes but I am transgender.

She said oh I see you born male and living as a woman? I said yeah something like that .She said dear don't you worry at all you really do look like a woman I just wasn't sure.My husband thought I was crazy and said thats a woman no doubt.

No way I could get mad at the lady for asking and really it didn't matter because she was fine with it,walking back to her husband she said see I told you.

My male friend was so sweet and just sat there smiling.

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