Truth About Biological Sex

[DesiB]

Biology categorizes humans into one of two categories for sex--male or female.  At first glance, this appears to be a binary system.  However, a deeper investigation reveals that male and female are actually the ends of a spectrum.  Throughout modern history, doctors & midwives who have delivered babies have announced either "It's a boy" or "It's a girl."  Even when intersex babies are born, attempts have been made to choose between "boy" or "girl" with no other options to more accurately reflect the biological truth. 

 

The biological advantage of sexual reproduction over asexual reproduction is that it creates more diversity in offspring.  That diversity is what prevents most natural hazards from having equally destructive effects upon entire populations.  Intersex babies are born on a regular basis and have been throughout all human history.  Intersex itself is an umbrella term that encompasses a wide multitude of variations.  In some of those cases, it is immediately difficult to make the call between "boy" or "girl" based on ambiguous external genitalia at birth.  There is no universal and objective line between micro-penis and macro-clitoris.  In many other cases, the intersex condition is not immediately visible (e.g. XY with CAIS exhibiting female external genitalia at birth), but that makes it no less of a biological truth. 

 

Biological sex determination, beyond the initial assessment of external genitalia, also includes several more components such as genes, chromosomes, hormones, secondary sex characteristics, and reproductive organs.  Legal and social sex determination is primarily based on external genitalia and, later in life, on secondary sex characteristics.  Rarely do most people even know exactly what hormone levels, genes, or chromosomes they carry prior to a medical event requiring such investigation.  I know of a case where an individual with only one testicle fathered children and then later learned that the other gonad was an ovary and that there was an underdeveloped vagina under the surface as well. 

 

When discussing biological sex, we generally focus on reproductive organs and ignore another biological organ that is probably the most important organ in any human body--the brain.   It may be true that there is as much difference between individual brains as there is between male and female brains.  Still, this is a biological factor in determining one's sex, and one that cannot be observed and instantly declared with precise accuracy at birth.  Therefore, I consider transsexuals to belong to the broad category of intersex births--a biological truth about sex, not to be confused with various comorbidities of mental health issues.

 

Based on the above, I personally object to those who attempt to distinguish transsexuals from biological, natal, genetic, chromosomal, anatomical, natural born, or real men or women.  Making a distinction based on potentially faulty "assignment at birth" can be useful.  And only at times when it is even necessary at all (e.g. dealing with prostate exams or pap smears), using the prefix of "trans-" or "cis-" to make a distinction can be helpful .   No accusations of attempted deception or denial applies--this is the truth about biological sex.

[Robin68]

Hello DesiB!

Welcome to this forum and thank you for sharing your thoughts. Let me be the first to admit that I am no expert on gender assignment or the interplay of biology and psychology in defining who we are. I know that biology can often be a poor indicator of who we "feel" we are and determining sex by looking at genitals at birth has to be a very crude measure of what we are. Yet, it is true that most humans grow into adulthood biologically displaying a bone, shape and secondary gender characteristics which carry with them powerful social definitions and expectations. I think it is these often rigid social expectations labeling us as male or female that are the most stifling and destructive. It is this reinforcement that denies us a fundamental freedom to know and be ourselves. So, I liked much of what you had to say but it does seem to me that people who identify themselves as transsexual or transgender are doing so precisely to identify that they are daily engaged in this struggle to get free of these social expectations. Perhaps in a more ideal society where there is not so much rigid unfairness concerning gender, people will not need to identify as transsexual. I can see you are very knowledgeable about this subject so I appreciate you thoughtful comments. I look forward to learning more from you!

 

Hugs,

 

Robin68

[Maid In Bedlam]

Thank you DesiB

 

Thats a very interesting way of putting it. I am intrigued.

 

First off i Do Agree with most of the above. I would love to see the actual evidence of your statement. to justify the stance. Just so i can read the full account and digest it. Have you considered the XX and XY chromozones and there part in determining a real birth sex later in life? Please supply a link to the study.

 

It has been proved that a male brain is diffrent from a female brain and the brain of the transsexual  resembles more the desired gender than the assigned birth gender

 

take for instance the study

 

Quote

In this study, Dr. Julie Bakker from the University of Liège, Belgium, and her colleagues from the Center of Expertise on Gender Dysphoria at the VU University Medical Center, the Netherlands, examined sex differences in the brain activation patterns of young transgender people. The study included both adolescent boys and girls with gender dysphoria and used magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) scans to assess brain activation patterns in response to a pheromone known to produce gender-specific activity. The pattern of brain activation in both transgender adolescent boys and girls more closely resembled that of non-transgender boys and girls of their desired gender. In addition, GD adolescent girls showed a male-typical brain activation pattern during a visual/spatial memory exercise. Finally, some brain structural changes were detected that were also more similar, but not identical, to those typical of the desired gender of GD boys and girls.

Dr Bakker says, "Although more research is needed, we now have evidence that sexual differentiation of the brain differs in young people with GD, as they show functional brain characteristics that are typical of their desired gender.

 

 

Link to the full article here

 

 

The theory of Intersex also being classed as a Transexuality is also something i would consider to be partly correct to a certain point. However are you using the term for the full spectrum? IE, Transexulism or transgenderism? As the term Transexuality has been swept under the carpet as it doesnt conform to the current agendas and is sometimes now scorned in certain quarters as an old fashoined word which is now obsolete. Which is not my personal way of interpretation of the word. For me its very much alive during my transformation.

On that note would the definaition of all transsexual being classed as intersex blow the narrative of the trans umbrella out the water so to speak?

 

On another point.  Would you agree that non binary is therefore just a social constuct? 

 

  One  example is height: clearly height is a continuum, and individuals can fall anywhere along that continuum; but we also have the binary labels Tall and Short. Might gender operate in a similar way?

  The two ends of the spectrum are masculinity and femininity. Is there anything else that they could possibly be? Once we realise this, it becomes clear that everybody is non-binary, because absolutely nobody is pure masculinity or pure femininity Just as people are very tall or very short. Most are something in the middle. Can this method be attached to gender? Does gender change as height changes as we grow into maturity? I do not think it does. Therefore. The term transexual if it be mtof or  ftom. Would mean we have always been and always will be.  A man never becomes a woman. But a woman just makes herself more womanly as with a woman never becomes a man just endevours to be more manly

 

Was we all potentially misgendered at birth? Boy or girl, Male or female is the binary. By going by my earlier statement we are all somewhere on the spectrum and rarely at the ends.

 

[DesiB]

8 hours ago, Robin68 said:

So, I liked much of what you had to say but it does seem to me that people who identify themselves as transsexual or transgender are doing so precisely to identify that they are daily engaged in this struggle to get free of these social expectations.

 

Speaking for myself, identifying as trans was mainly useful during my transition period.  At some point, it is something that I would use much less often, such as for certain medical situations or at a certain point of intimacy with another person.  Otherwise, I do not struggle to be free of social expectations any more or less than does everyone else.  

[DesiB]

1 hour ago, Maid In Bedlam said:

Have you considered the XX and XY [chromozomes] and [their] part in determining a real birth sex later in life?

 

Yes, I included chromosomes in the group of biological characteristics that combine to determine sex.  But I also included an example that shows chromosomes alone cannot be considered determinative, since a baby can be born with XY (male) chromosomes and still be assigned female at birth due to apparently female genitalia caused by CAIS. 

 

Regarding the biological differences between male and female brains, you can find valid evidence and convincing arguments on both sides.  Small differences can be found, then it becomes an argument between the degree of difference it takes to be considered significant.  That is my assessment of the debate on that topic and I do not intend to settle that with links and arguments here.  My concern is to be able to provide coherent answers when people try to dismiss the existence of trans individuals by writing them off merely as individuals with psychological deviations.  

 

We do not live in the Matrix where people can imagine jumping off tall buildings and surviving simply because they believe they can.  Physical and biological rules do apply limitations.  I am not a dualist living in a delusional fantasy land.  All my thoughts derive from my physical, biological body which tells me who I am.

 

There is s new book out by Charles Murray called Human Diversity where he takes issue with biology being excluded from the social sciences.    What I posted above is intended to answer people who take such a position.

[Robin68]

1 hour ago, DesiB said:

Speaking for myself, identifying as trans was mainly useful during my transition period.  At some point, it is something that I would use much less often, such as for certain medical situations or at a certain point of intimacy with another person.  Otherwise, I do not struggle to be free of social expectations any more or less than does everyone else.  

For me, the transition period never ends because transgenderism is a process, not a destination. Whether I am involved in a physical transition, a mental transition or both, I am always becoming. 

[Maid In Bedlam]

Thank you for your Answer DesiB

 

Its a shame you cannot provide a link to the science. I would have really like to have seen what you have researched.

 

As you pointed out. there are many sceintific studys gauged to proving that the Brain is diffrent between males and females. Sceince and Pseudoscience. However. it still stands as sceintific fact the brain of a male has more grey matter than a female brain which is more promonate with white matter. This has been proved in autopsoy in earlier times and more recently with MRI Scans.

 

Pseudoscience is normally created to push an agenda. because in reality it sounds factual useing the word science as its marker. a system of theories, assumptions, and methods erroneously regarded as scientific. The term pseudoscience is considered pejorative, because it suggests something is being presented as science inaccurately or even deceptively.

 

where Scientific method is starting with an observation then working through experimentation and evidence to reach a conclusion.

 

however both are right. It really depends on the situation.

 

I have seen much  on this in both camps but regard the sceintific evidence far more convincing.

 

On 2/16/2020 at 5:23 PM, DesiB said:

We do not live in the Matrix where people can imagine jumping off tall buildings and surviving simply because they believe they can.  Physical and biological rules do apply limitations.  I am not a dualist living in a delusional fantasy land.  All my thoughts derive from my physical, biological body which tells me who I am.

 

 

I agree with you. I am the same as that i knew there was something diffrent from an early age. Could it have been something else? Could i have been suffering from some mental disorder which fooled me into thinking i was when i actually had schizophrenia or some other dilutional disorder?

 

This was all figured out in the phycho therapy phase of my journey. thats is basically where it was concluded if i should have hormone thearpy treatment or a diffrent medication. Mine was the former and i was given hormones to correct the imbalance of body and mind.

 

I still have or assume i have XY chromozones and not XX. I say assume as i have never to my knowledge been tested. However The matrix is also not being lived in here. I made my own choice on if i should take hormones and surgerys or just live with dysphoria. But that does bring up a observation. I still had male genitals at my time of birth but was with a female brain.  But without any other conclusive testing at the time. There was no way to gauge this. Which leads me on to:

 

It has also been proved this is so with expreiments with babys and there toys. Babys who were born male tended to be drawrn to male toys such as trucks etc. Where babys with female genitals tended to be drawn towald toys more female There is also prove of this. With monkeys who bare close relation to human beings. Link provided of an experiment of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bm9xXyw2f7g

Granted its not a conclusive test but it does demostrate the urge between the male and female preferences. Which also would lead me to belive Gender is not a social constuct but biological. Built into our very fabric. Granted you can get very efeminate men or very masculine women. But they do not suffer with gender dysphoria. They have to a certain point constucted there own personality and traits. during expreiance. They wasnt born with those tendencies but created them as there presence.. (My opnion)

 

On 2/16/2020 at 5:23 PM, DesiB said:

There is s new book out by Charles Murray called Human Diversity where he takes issue with biology being excluded from the social sciences.    What I posted above is intended to answer people who take such a position.

 

Should be something that im sure will be interesting. I assume its the same Charles Murray who In high school, at the height of the Civil Rights movement, Charles Murray burned a cross on a hill in his Iowa town, according to a New York Times a profile of Murray. Murray later claimed he had no idea that his cross-burning had any racial significance.

 

Also the Charles Murray In 1996, decade-plus campaign to end welfare for single mothers paid off when President Bill Clinton signed the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act, essentially killing traditional welfare programs with a specific emphasis on cutting welfare for poor families

 

Just wondered? As he sounds a bit of living in the matrix kinda fella. I was going to use the word "D~*K but the filter wont let me.

 

To End. DesiB I whole heartedly agree with much of what you have said in your first posting. 

 

We are on the same side. Until you have lived through it you have no idea what it is to be gender dysphoric.