Jump to content
  • Welcome to the TransPulse Forums!

    We offer a safe, inclusive community for transgender and gender non-conforming folks, as well as their loved ones, to find support and information.  Join today!

Native Americans and Gender


Oh_Kay

Recommended Posts

I read some posts about Native Americans and gender. I think it was in Sandra Lux's introductions as she lists herself as twin spirit. I found some interesting material about Native American beliefs and gender that you may find interesting:

 

The Native American belief is that some people are born with the spirits of both genders and express them so perfectly. It is if they have two spirits in one body. Some Siouan tribes believed that before a child is born its soul stands before The Creator, to either reach for the bow and arrows that would indicate the role of a man or the basket that would determine the role of a female. When the child would reach for the gender-corresponding hand, sometimes The Creator would switch hands and the child would have chosen the opposite gender’s role and therefore casting its lot in life.

Native Americans traditionally assign no moral gradient to love or sexuality; a person was judged for their contributions to their tribe and for their character. It was also a custom for parents to not interfere with nature and so among some tribes, children wore gender-neutral clothes until they reached an age where they decided for themselves which path they would walk and the appropriate ceremonies followed. The Two Spirit people in pre-contact Native America were highly revered and families that included them were considered lucky. Indians believed that a person who was able to see the world through the eyes of both genders at the same time was a gift from The Creator. Traditionally, Two Spirit people held positions within their tribes that earned them great respect, such as Medicine Men/Women, shamans, visionaries, mystics, conjurers, keepers of the tribe’s oral traditions, conferrers of lucky names for children and adults (it has been said that Crazy Horse received his name from a Winkte), nurses during war expeditions, cooks, matchmakers and marriage counselors, jewelry/feather regalia makers, potters, weavers, singers/artists in addition to adopting orphaned children and tending to the elderly. Female-bodied Two Spirits were hunters, warriors, engaged in what was typically men’s work and by all accounts, were always fearless.

Traditional Native Americans closely associate Two Spirited people with having a high functioning intellect (possibly from a life of self-questioning), keen artistic skills and an exceptional capacity for compassion. Rather than being social dead-enders as within Euro-American culture today, they were allowed to fully participate within traditional tribal social structures. Two Spirit people, specifically male-bodied (biologically male, gender female) could go to war and have access to male activities such as the sweat lodge. However, they also took on female roles such as cooking, cleaning and other domestic responsibilities. Female bodied (biologically female, gender male) Two Spirits usually only had relationships or marriages with females and among the Lakota, they would sometimes enter into a relationship with a female whose husband had died. As male-bodied Two Spirits regarded each other as “sisters,” it is speculated that it may have been seen as incestuous for Two Spirits to have a relationship with each other. Within this culture it was considered highly offensive to approach a Two Spirit for the purpose of them performing the traditional role of their biological gender.

 

From: https://indiancountrytoday.com/archive/two-spirits-one-heart-five-genders-9UH_xnbfVEWQHWkjNn0rQQ

From: 

Link to comment

Thank you Kay, very interesting. I love, that these human beings were seen as something special, not a freak of nature. Wish it would be like that for all of us, who are between genders or on the transition!

Link to comment
  • Admin

Canadian First Nation people and the more U.S western plains Native American tribes were the ones who recognized the Two Spirit persons, I have a very distant relation (6 generations ago) with one of the tribes who did honor their Two Spirit members.  The more eastern and southern tribes did not give any specific place to cross gender people partly because they did not have the rigid gender roles that the Europeans did.  I visited on one reservation near the Canadian border and I was wearing a woman's top and windbreaker with hair a bit long, and was introduced to a minor shaman, whom I had a pleasant talk with for a few hours about what he saw as my gender diversity.  I am a bit too far out of the blood to claim Two Spirit status although I have participated in Spirit Circles as a welcome member by several people with more actual NA blood and spiritual teaching than I have.  Tribes in the area of Mexico and south of there also did not specifically have the Two Spirit groups but also were more tolerant of gender diverse tribal member than the European customs.

 

Many North American tribes actually were taken with most parts of Christianity since many of their spiritual  traditions had characters very much like the ones in Christianity, but with a big difference in that they did not believe in the Christian Original Sin or the devil as such.  They saw it as man's own self will that ran amok and that distanced him from his tribe and neighbors. 
 

Link to comment
  • Admin
5 hours ago, Suzanne1 said:

.  Anyway, the Indians fed the French psychedelic concoctions & dressed them in women's garments.  After a time, they used the Frenchmen as concubines.]

 

Suzanne, do you have a source for this anecdote? 

 

Carolyn Marie

Link to comment
  • Admin

I once knew a man from Guatemala who was of Mayan ancestry.  I asked him about the Two Spirit belief, and he said that Mayans didn't have such a belief in their culture.  I don't think its consistent among North American Native American cultures either.

 

Carolyn Marie

Link to comment
  • Forum Moderator

In Canada, the "LGBT..." alphabet soup acronym is almost always written to include "2S" for the two-spirit people.  For example, "LGBT2SQIA+"

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Who's Online   0 Members, 0 Anonymous, 121 Guests (See full list)

    • There are no registered users currently online
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      80.6k
    • Total Posts
      768.2k
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      12,020
    • Most Online
      8,356

    Tami
    Newest Member
    Tami
    Joined
  • Today's Birthdays

    1. Bebhar
      Bebhar
      (41 years old)
    2. caelensmom
      caelensmom
      (40 years old)
    3. Jani
      Jani
      (70 years old)
    4. Jessicapitts
      Jessicapitts
      (37 years old)
    5. klb046
      klb046
      (30 years old)
  • Posts

    • Carolyn Marie
      You make some good points, AYS.  But there are usually already too many ballot propositions each election, so the proponents know it's best to wrap it all up into a nice package.  Plus, it's easier for the signature gatherers.  Otherwise they have to have a separate clipboard for each proposition.  Too much paperwork, dontcha know?   This kind of proposition is a loser in CA, so the only possible way the proponents can succeed is to give it the scariest title imaginable and try to put one over on the voters before they get wise.  Bottom line; an ice cube on a hot summer sidewalk has a better chance of success.   Carolyn Marie
    • awkward-yet-sweet
      Reading that article, it seems like the attorney general gets to call it whatever unless its an outright lie.  Given the nature of politics in CA, it seems like one side has the bully pulpit for sure.  Labeling it "Restricts Rights" vs "Protects Kids" is very much a matter of perspective.  Unfortunately, that matters since many voters don't bother to read.  Perhaps a better (unbiased) way to handle it would be to simply give the ballot measure a number with no title, forcing folks to read it.    I think it would have been better to handle the various issues covered by the ballot measure separately, rather than all at once.  For example, issues relating to disclosure of medical and social information to parents.  That could be its own ballot measure, rather than lumped in with everything else.  Besides, shorter and more succinct measures are more likely to be read completely. 
    • Carolyn Marie
      https://calmatters.org/education/k-12-education/2024/04/trans-youth/     Yup, the existing title sound perfectly appropriate and accurate to me, too.   Carolyn Marie
    • Adrianna Danielle
      Seen my hrt specialist this morning and nothing but good news,estrogen levels looked good.Boyfriend was with me and I admit he has been learning well about my transition showing his support.Our relationship is going great and we both see each other much happier now.
    • Abigail Genevieve
      This reminded me of an individual who, due to child sexual abuse, lived as a woman for 15 years, detransitioned and noisily insists that all trans people have his story.  His name comes up fairly often because it fits the narrative.   I don't know that anyone actually has been railroaded.  People may say it, they may look back at what happened and decide that happened.  It's a he said / she said, but it feeds a narrative that is useful for those who are already convinced that trans people are abuse victims first and foremost.  That the detransition rate is so low tells me that railroading is not actually a problem, and I regret giving the impression that I thought it was.  That so few detransition is a success story.   What is pertitent at heart is that people hear and believe all the stories out there, and the story we have to tell is not heard, because TG folk are, after all, untrustworthy in their view and unworthy of an audience.  Somehow it needs to get out there as to what the real situation is. 
    • Ashley0616
    • Ashley0616
      I'm not saying that Christianity is wrong but at the same time there were more than 30,000 changes to it. The Bible doesn't state anything against transgender. The only point that can be proven by them is that people are giving into their desire. 1 John 2:15-17 ESV "Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life—is not from the Father but is from the world. And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever." I would love to challenge them by asking who watches a movie, reads books, and listens to music that isn't Christian based because then they would be guilty as well. 1 Corinthians 10:31 ESV "So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. Probably not a single hand would still stand that they don't participate in everything they do gives glory to God. "
    • VickySGV
      My neighboring state got lucky a couple years ago. 
    • VickySGV
      https://www.wpath.org/soc8   I had been looking for this to respond to a member and could not find it .  Pinning it for now.
    • VickySGV
      @Abigail GenevieveSomewhere in the Forums here, we have a link to the World Professional Association for Transgender Health's Standards Of Care, now at revision 8 but it is available in plenty of places.   https://www.wpath.org/soc8.    These are the canons for the allied medical fields that deal with Trans people and are the guidance for those professionals.  I personally know members of the Association and have toyed with the idea of becoming an associate member since I am not a medical professional but because I like to keep on top of what is going on medically.  There are a number of Trans people who think they are overly oppressive as far as the gatekeeping goes, but the medical / psychological profession members who follow these guidelines for there patients WILL NOT be forcing their patients into unneeded or harmful surgery or medications.  I read my first pitiful and heart-rending  "detransitioning" story 60 years ago when I snuck a tabloid newspaper behind a comic book down at the neighborhood convenience store when I was 16 years old and reading it off the rack which should have been adult only.  I am afraid that it was the first thing I ever read that told me about Trans and Transsexual people, it would be another 30 years before I actually figured out my own story.  The story I later found out, was NOT written by a Trans person, but a well known Porn scribbler who wrote many fantastic and gory stories about what he thought Trans people were.  We are not anything like his imagination, but he was a "press agent" for Trans people of the time.  We do have some well known and noisy, negative view Detransitioners who have been found to have gone to multiple psychologists and lied their way Transitioning, one of the most infamous actually hid Dissociative Identity Disorder, right therapist wrong Identity that was being counseled.  It is a messy story.  The public, like my first encounter, was NOT getting their information from the scientific journals of the time, they were getting it from Adult Entertainment and Tabloids   We need to be careful of where we get some of our ideas from. Evidence is good that the person at the heart of this thread gets most of his information from us from the slanted and non-scientific sources most people get theirs.   OOPs, I( may have sent this off track here, but but but.    
    • Ivy
    • Ashley0616
      Yet another failed attempt. Glad to know that we are more important than education or health care to them.
    • Mmindy
      I agree with you.   Mindy🌈🐛🏳️‍⚧️🦋
    • Mmindy
      Well said, and I agree @VickySGV   Mindy🌈🐛🏳️‍⚧️🦋
    • Ashley0616
      Well the VA tried setting me up with another appointment with laser even though they won't cover it? This just doesn't make sense. Back to the waiting game on electrolysis. I'm in a area that doesn't do much of that. There is one place that covers face only. There is another one that looks like they do it in their home. Other than that it's it for nearby. I don't think they are wanting to do it due to how expensive it's going to be. Typical VA stuff dragging their feet. 
  • Upcoming Events

Contact TransPulse

TransPulse can be contacted in the following ways:

Email: Click Here.

To report an error on this page.

Legal

Your use of this site is subject to the following rules and policies, whether you have read them or not.

Terms of Use
Privacy Policy
DMCA Policy
Community Rules

Hosting

Upstream hosting for TransPulse provided by QnEZ.

Sponsorship

Special consideration for TransPulse is kindly provided by The Breast Form Store.
×
×
  • Create New...