Coming out to other trans people?

[Rorelai]

Hey everyone! 

 

So now that the semester has started again, and my college is one of the ones trying to continue in person instruction, I've been seeing more people face to face again. In my astronomy class, we're in a large lecture hall, all spaced out to maintain physical distance, but one of the other students caught my eye. We don't sit near enough to strike up a casual conversation during class but I'm pretty sure (but not certain) that she's also trans. I've seen her around campus a few times too and we usually wave to each other but that's about it for now. I don't know much about her, but I'd like to reach out and try to be her friend.

 

Do any of you know of a diplomatic way to ask someone if they're trans? I know that it can be embarrassing to be outed but I'd like to find a way to broach this subject and let her know that she has a compatriot in me. If any of you have any ideas on how to come out to her and let her know that I'm here as a potential ally and friend without being rude in asking if she's trans too I'd love your advice!

[KathyLauren]

23 minutes ago, Rorelai said:

Do any of you know of a diplomatic way to ask someone if they're trans?

 

There isn't one.  Don't ask!

 

It is okay to out yourself if you so choose, but it is never okay to ask someone else to out themselves.  The best way to broach the subject is to wear something trans-related, like a trans flag pin, or a pendant with the trans symbol on it.  That lets others know that you are open to discussing the subject, and allows them to take the initiative to out themselves to you if they feel like it.  Or not.

[Jackie C.]

I just wouldn't. It's none of your business unless she chooses to share. If you want to be friends, approach her like you would anyone else that you'd like to forge a friendship with. Being trans is very personal and she might not want to share with someone she just met, if at all. There needs to be a level of trust, y'know?

 

Hugs!

[Jani]

48 minutes ago, KathyLauren said:

The best way to broach the subject is to wear something trans-related, like a trans flag pin, or a pendant with the trans symbol on it.  That lets others know that you are open to discussing the subject,

Kathy's approach is the time tested method.  Never ask as my friends have suggested. 

[Rorelai]

Thanks gals! I've met other trans folks before (and there's actually quite a few that I've met here on campus even though we're a pretty small college) but it's usually been in very queer spaces, such as at GSA meetings where we all feel comfortable opening up about our gender and our experiences as trans folks. Unfortunately since we haven't been able to have club meetings yet this semester there's less of a chance to open up like that right away. I know from being on the receiving end of being clocked that it's not a fun situation and of course I don't want to make her uncomfortable so your advice makes sense. Because I transitioned so publicly within our campus community I don't really have the option to live as stealth here and for me it's not something that I can keep secret (because I've worked with our GSA and spoken publicly with faculty and administration on making our campus more trans inclusive most people on campus kinda see me as the "resident transsexual"), but not everyone is in that same boat and it's their choice if/how/when they disclose that information. I might try to get lunch with her after class sometime and just be able to get to know her before jumping right into the whole trans discussion to see if we even have anything else in common anyway. The advice about wearing trans swag is also helpful, and I have a few pins on my backpack like that already. I'll let you guys know how things go though!

[Rorelai]

Also just to build off of what I just said: I know that just being another trans person doesn't mean that we're destined to be friends or anything. Even though we may share some experiences we're still a very diverse group of people and just being the same gender doesn't mean we'll get along. I know plenty of cis girls that I don't get along with even though we're both girls, and the same applies for other trans people. 

[Abi]

@Rorelai,

    Friendship is a great thing to have. Just be yourself. It's really cool how you have become active in your school and the community. I also agree that no matter how well I know someone, I just would never ask about their gender. That is just one of the very many personal things that people feel uncomfortable talking about with new people. I would extend that courtesy always, as it is one I would equally appreciate. I like the feeling that we get to decide who we share our lives with. I do like the idea of putting yourself on a path to make friends with this person. They have peaked your interest. This person likely knows some things about you, if you are very public there. Their waving at you is a sign they may like to have your friendship as well. Getting to know someone new can be great. Best of luck.

 

Abigail

[Abi]

I also would point out that we all have each other here and knew we were all choosing to come here for one similar reason or another. Even here we all extend this courtesy. It is one of the greatest strengths we have as a community. That does not mean that we can't approach subjects with each other ever. It is just about how do we maintain a feeling of appreciation while we get to know each other better. I am grateful for the many wonderful people that have shown me that by example. 

[Sally Stone]

This is such an important question and I'm so glad everyone agreed unanimously that asking another if they are trans is absolutely the wrong way to go.  As has been stated, it is perfectly okay to tell another as much as you dare about yourself.   Perhaps, that is enough to get the other person to open up, but if it doesn't, that's perfectly okay.

 

Just imagine, you identify as male or female, yet someone approaches you and asks:  Are you a woman? - Are you a man?  Asking someone if they are trans is just as insulting, so again, I am so glad we are all in agreement on this point. 

 

Way to go!  Common sense and empathy truly prevail on this site, which makes me such a proud member. 

[Elizabeth Star]

I've had this same question and I'm interested to see how this goes. I do like the trans swag idea but thought it might get me clocked by people who would have otherwise thought I was just a woman.

[Steff7]

I'm glad to read this discussion as there is a guy slightly older than me (late 40s/early 50s) that works a shift on the till at my local liquor store that i suspect is either TV or MtF.

what gave it away are his red painted & manicured fingernails, carefully shaped eyebrows, traces of incompletely removed eyeshadow & lipstick, and waxed forearms & hands.  I only noticed as they are the same details that i still have to conceal at times myself, and are so rare as to be virtually unheard of in the small place i now live.

 

i know how isolating being TV or TS can be at our age in this religiously & socially repressed part of N.I, and i was wondering how to quietly reach out to offer a friendly/sympathetic ear if needed without worrying or offending him, but some wearing some sort of swag does seem the most discreet option.

 

i don't know of anything except the catch-all rainbow badge which seems overused these days - is there any more specific symbol i could wear ?  that way i could leave it to him to comment if he feels like it, as advised by the above posts...

[Susan R]

9 hours ago, KathyLauren said:

There isn't one.  Don't ask!

Agree 100% due to not knowing ANYTHING except what you see on the exterior about the person you’re attempting to reach out to. It’s tempting I know but all I have to do is role reverse for 2 seconds and I know what the right thing to do is.

 

My 2¢

Susan R?

[KayC]

Not being Out yet, I really appreciate the sage advice and experience from all the Members here.  Thank you❣️

[Rorelai]

9 hours ago, Susan R said:

 It’s tempting I know but all I have to do is role reverse for 2 seconds and I know what the right thing to do is.

 

I absolutely agree. When I think about how I'd take it if someone just came up and clocked me like that it would be kinda awkward and embarrassing. Because there's not a lot of trans women out there I think it's natural to want to stick together when we do find one another, and even though I know it comes from a place of meaning well if we're asking if someone else is trans, that still isn't a fun situation to be in on the receiving end. It makes you wonder what gave it away, what parts of your appearance aren't femme enough, and it can be invalidating especially if it's been a long time since someone clocked you. It doesn't even have to be misgendering you, but it still bites knowing that you don't pass to the discerning eye. Still, I think the comraderie that comes from being around other people that have gone through similar experiences and journeys with their transition means it's important to be willing to reach out to one another. We need to still look out for each other, otherwise how can we call ourselves part of a community. 

[DeeDee]

@Steff7 Just like the rainbow gay pride flag, there are many other flags for different groups in the lgbt+ community.  You can buy all sorts of badges and bracelets and merch online, here is a pic from an amazon store that sells badges to show you what it looks like. It isn't as well known as the rainbow so while some may ask you what it's for others might just think it's pretty.  

 

 

[Steff7]

34 minutes ago, DeeDee said:

@Steff7 Just like the rainbow gay pride flag, there are many other flags for different groups in the lgbt+ community.  You can buy all sorts of badges and bracelets and merch online, here is a pic from an amazon store that sells badges to show you what it looks like. It isn't as well known as the rainbow so while some may ask you what it's for others might just think it's pretty.  

 

 

thanks - i'm out of touch enough that i didn't know about that one...

[DeeDee]

I'm still learning too. I have a tee from Critical Role that has 11 different flags on it with the words, "Don't forget to love one another" in the middle, and without google I cannot tell you what half of them mean. Though I have had plenty of conservative religious people who would be mortified to know compliment me on the message.

 

I know the question has been answered but I thought of a real life example from 6 or 7 years ago that may help.

 

Before I started questioning I found myself at a musicians house with a group of people, one of whom I "clocked" as trans, we talked about music and people we might know and everyone had a great time, I remember talking about her song writing process, but when I left with my friends I was trying to place her because I recognised her from somewhere (turns out I knew her brother through work) but kept switching between he/she as I talked because I didn't know her name and the brother always talked about his brother and that confused my brain at the time. (I'd like to think I wouldn't do that now and either use gender neutral pronouns or she as she was definitely presenting female)

I know it didn't stop me talking to her like anyone else while at the jamming session, but I know if the situations were reversed, as they may well be soon, that I would much rather someone was talking to me because I was there and pleasant company and not because they were trying to get me to out myself to sate their curiosity.

[KathyLauren]

12 hours ago, Steff7 said:

i don't know of anything except the catch-all rainbow badge which seems overused these days - is there any more specific symbol i could wear ?  that way i could leave it to him to comment if he feels like it, as advised by the above posts...

 

Here are a couple of options.  The pendant on the left is a trans symbol.  The pin on the right uses the trans flag colours.

 

I know one trans woman who wears the pendant all the time, specifically to invite inquiries from other trans or questioning people.

 

[AmberM]

I too have wanted to talk to others and befriend them on a personal level, but agree 100% that outing them is never a good idea. Being newer to the party, I am torn on wearing the markers because right now my goal is eventually to transition and just blend into society, wearing a marker would out me to those who know what it means, both good people and not so good people.

 

I would agree with just be friendly and talk to them if you are interested about things other than being trans, then who knows, the subject may come up over time when both of you are comfortable.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Rorelai]

As far as markers go, I have a little pin on my backpack that says "protect trans kids" and a sticker that says "la transphobie tue" ("transphobia kills" in French, like a smoking kills advert from a pack of cigarettes) on my laptop. Both of these are pretty subtle, so most people don't even notice them unless they get close enough to see them. For people that just met me I pass pretty well and I don't have any problem moving through the world as a woman, but like I said before I'm pretty open about being trans so anyone that knows me on campus knows that I'm trans. I don't want to hide that part of myself but it's definitely not the only or the most important part of my personality.  

[Elizabeth Star]

A couple days ago i was out a shopping at my favorite grocery store. (There is a trans-girl working there. I have always wanted to just say hi to her but I do understand all the reason not to. ) The store was busy, she was working a register and had the shortest line. It was awkward. I'm pretty open and friendly towards everyone these days so I was a little put-off that she barley said 3 words to me while ringing up my stuff. I really wanted to just be like "hey hon how's it going?" but didn't. I just paid and left. I know it was the right thing to do but I feel I should try to avoid her from now on.

 

[Abi]

@ElizabethStar,

    It may just have been a bad day for them. It's ok to say hello. They may be shy or self conscious. It really could be anything. Grocery stores have been a stressful place to be since the pandemic started ramping up. Don't let one moment discourage you from saying something nice to someone. It might be the best part of their day, just say hello and have a nice day. 

[DeeDee]

I agree with Abi, I smile and say hi to every checkout operator regardless of whether they talk to me or not, I remember working in supermarkets and sometimes that one person being nice was the only reprieve in a long and crappy day. Although at the moment no one can see me smile

[Elizabeth Star]

@Abi@DeeDee Both of you have brought up a very good point that I hadn't considered. I must be hard and very emotionally draining to be on display like that. It's easy for me to forget since I have an office job.

[MiraM]

@ElizabethStar

Also, cashiers in grocery stores are evaluated partly on how quickly they complete transactions.  They have to get you through the line as quickly as possible.  If they take the time to chat with everyone, they risk being documented for falling behind on transaction times.  I'm a department manager in a grocery store, and part of my evaluation is based on department wait times as well, so if my associates are just chit chatting with every customer, my department performance suffers.  Its not that we don't want to talk to you, but we have a job to do.  I have several customers that I would love to talk to more, but most of the time it's just not possible. You have to remember, this is our job, and when we are on the clock we have to be focused on the job.