Biden Talked Trans Rights at Thursday's Town Hall

[Heather Shay]

I am sorry if I disobeyed any of the rules of this amazing forum. I wish you could delete this full thread as some of the views I find wrong and politics does need to stay out. It is such a decisive topic and has no place here.

[Charlize]

      The issue here is not about the topic which i perceive as Biden speaking positively about trans rights.  As a trans person this policy is important to me and to any here who are transitioning or who may have plans to transition.  We often have posts here that relate to political policies affecting trans folks (we have a political forum for that reason).  Those are fine as long as we can keep the conversation civil and on topic.

      The feelings and expressions of political beliefs are extreme at this point.  Those extremes do not belong in this site.  We are here to support each other not to get into political arguments.

 

Hugs,

 

Charlize

[ValerieRun]

While I do not offer my political perspectives, I enjoy reading all the posts here. Keep them coming, in a civil manner, of course ?

[KayC]

@MaryEllen for PRESIDENT❣️?  Thank you!

 

14 hours ago, JillPilled said:

Because the U.S has lagged behind the rest of the world in this capacity, for its citizens, for years.

Agree, Jill!  I live in a country that has socialized medicine, and nobody has to worry about if they get sick what's going to happen to them or how they're going to be able to afford it.  Its a basic right of citizenship, and everybody pays their fair share.  

[Ivy]

I am also sorry if I offended anyone here.

 

I have friends on both sides of the fence.  I hate that there even is a fence. (In my family, we basically cancel each other out at the poles.)  As for the 'Rona, there's not much point in arguing over where or who it came from.  The thing is, it's here now, and we need to deal with it the best we can.  It's a pity it has been so politicized.

 

I already voted.  And I went in person.  And since I don't really "pass" at all, it was obvious that I was a transwoman.  I guess I just wanted to make a point.  For some reason that seemed important to me.

 

This election has been so depressing for me.  People are even going to court over which votes to actually count… Like, why?

And being stuck at home only makes it worse.

Sometimes I just want to "self-medicate" till it's over.

Just how I feel these days.

[VickySGV]

9 hours ago, KayC said:

@MaryEllen for PRESIDENT❣️?  Thank you!

 

She is actually higher here than president, the RED QUEEN is more like it.  (Bows low!!)

 

Imaginations and passions are running higher this year than any I can remember, and the internet and isolation has given rise to false information False Evidence Appearing Real (FEAR).  The same events carefully communicated by one person will be wholly acceptable to many more people than just an "inner circle" of policy and direction, but the same entire set of actions communicated poorly and only to "trusted disciples" from a different person will be condemned.  This will be my only post in this topic. It was a good topic though, and with the staff we have will be kept in social bounds.

[Heather Nicole]

I appreciate all the civility here, and there's a lot that's been said I liked hearing. (Erm..."seeing"...)

 

I normally avoid political topics because I feel so strongly about certain things it can be difficult to keep emotion in check and not devolve into uncivil rule violations. I think I can manage that right at this moment, though. If I find I can't, I'll just delete without posting and keep my big fat mouth shut

 

Just a couple misc points:

 

1. The idea of COVID being deliberate is quite a large claim. That's not to say it can't be true, but as per Occam's Razor, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I'd welcome being presented such evidence to evaluate, but all I've been able to come across so far has been hearsay from social media's siloed echo chambers and maybe one, and only one, news channel I won't specifically name that happens to be widely considered questionable. I would need much more than this to personally consider the claim plausible, let alone true.

 

2. I've noticed that most of the objections to socialism I've personally come across tend to fall prey to "slippery slope" usage which is a well known logical fallacy. Yes, the USSR does provide convincing evidence that a full-blown extremist form of 100% socialism is...uhhh...certainly quite problematic to say the very least. But there are other parts of Europe, Denmark especially, that provide living, breathing evidence that utilizing a mixed economy of partial socialism together with free market (which, btw, is also the US's model, just to a much lesser extent). Despite it's notable socialist side, Denmark has yet to fall apart or degenerate into Soviet-like extremism. And they have a lot less of certain problems that are prolific here in the states.

 

And I, for one, have never felt any particular need to be "number one!" in overall GDP, especially if it comes at the cost of other socio-economic problems. People matter more than money. And rather than partial socialism, I'm far more fearful of totalitarianism and loosing the very fundamental foundation the US was founded upon, the very reason for the first amendment: The right and ability to question leadership.

 

[JillPilled]

@KayC That's good to hear that it's helping yourself, and yes maybe there's a lesson to be learned and things that could help if brought abroad to help people in more places too :D! We really should be all covering each others' backs in a sense by mutual support and funding, thank you KayC.  I wish or have been hoping here there could be more unity or table-side discussions here too, there's plenty of that on this compared to most communities and its really heartwarming! It's cool to get worldly input from all us who have common experience and identities--there's a shared experience there!

 

Also I just want to apologize, likewise,  if I've said or expressed anything divisive at all to any y'all--there is enough fear and anxiety about current affairs for all us here who are trans or nonbinary, genderfluid, bigender, that really we could stand to speak openly and still support one another which we direly need still. Civility is super nice/needed particularly now when tensions feel high just about everywhere else. I just repress a lot of political feelings, too on things I see at the cross-roads of my identity/experience and feel really concerned if I were to speak in public discussing politics in general. It can be nice to have a place to do so for sure here and I'd rather not lose that . To return to the original topic, it's good to have some public-acknowledgement by a candidate on the presidential ballot like Biden. I'd hope it'd mean more change to help us, times are really uncertain now.

[Wichita]

On 10/25/2020 at 3:15 AM, Jackie C. said:

 

OMG, I hadn't seen this one in the wild before! This is straight out of conspiracy theory territory. While I'm terrified, the psychology of Trump supporters and how it's developed since 2016 is really fascinating. Psychology is kind of a hobby for me. I wish I'd had the opportunity to study it more deeply,

 

Anyway, at least half of the democratic party are conservatives. Biden is a conservative. He would have been a Republican in the 80's, the same as Obama. There are something like twelve politicians in the democratic party that are actually progressive. The big ones get you "scary" YouTube ads with Halloween colors and dripping blood animations.

 

Finally, why do people use "socialism" like it's a bad word? Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security are all sodalist programs. People like those. Personally, I'm a democratic socialist. Socialism for needs, capitalism for wants. That lets everybody get what they need to live and still allows for the insane excesses of capitalism, just maybe tamped down a little bit. Also taxes. Why do people think taxes are a bad thing? Taxes are how we buy services in society. Taxes pay for the police, firefighters, roads, snow removal, the military, all those things we need to function. We're not a bunch of bearded (or leg-bearded for the ladies) pioneers scratching everything out of the dirt and making all our things with our own two hands anymore. We live in society. There's a buy-in if you want to participate.

 

So yeah, Biden isn't who I'd want for president. I'm settling because the other option is, in my opinion, infinitely worse. If you look at the situation, we've got two parties in the US. One is conservative, the other is openly fascist. That would be packing the courts, refusing to work with the other party, military against domestic targets, there's more but we'd be here all day. So yeah. I held my nose and voted for Biden. I'd rather not end up in a concentration camp. It's South and Central Americans right now and that needs to stop, but a central tenet in fascist governments is that there HAS to be an enemy to oppress. It's not going to stay "brown people" forever and this administration has already shown that it really doesn't like trans people. We're on the list.

 

For the inevitable "If you hate this country so much, why don't you leave it?" I'll say that it's hard to get accepted into another country and my health problems make it really difficult for anyplace you'd actually want to live. I think the real act of loving your country is doing what you can to change it into a place that isn't so terrible to live.

 

Well, that got heavy. Anyway. Vote if you haven't already.

 

Hugs! 

Here’s another point of viewR about the “other option.”

 

Trump vs. LGBT 15:16

 

Trump vs. Disabled 23:20

 

Trump vs. military 12:03

 

Trump vs racism 15:53

 

Trump vs pandemic 31:40

 

 

[Heather Nicole]

@Wichita  I'm only just beginning to go through those videos, working my way through the first one right now. But before I even finished the video, I found something interesting. At just over two minutes in, there's a clip showing Biden saying this:

 

Quote

If you were at a fancy restaurant in Washington five, six years ago, at an important business meeting, and a gay or lesbian waiter came up, or transgender, spoke with a lisp or demonstrated they were gay or lesbian, and someone at that luncheon table say, made fun of that person, no one would've said anything.

 

This has me really interested. As soon as he says that, the clip ends. I want to see more. I'm trying to find the rest of this speech, but I have no idea what speech it was, when it was, where...so I'm having a heck of a time trying to find the rest of it. Do you have a link to it?

[Heather Nicole]

Ahh, ok, finally found it!  This is really interesting, this is a link directly into the whole, full, entire speech that "KvonComedy" included just a teensy, tantalizing portion of in the beginning of the first video, you linked to, @Wichita, I think you may be very happy to see this:

 

 

[Wichita]

2 hours ago, Heather Nicole said:

Ahh, ok, finally found it!  This is really interesting, this is a link directly into the whole, full, entire speech that "KvonComedy" included just a teensy, tantalizing portion of in the beginning of the first video, you linked to, @Wichita, I think you may be very happy to see this:

 

 

Truthfully, I'm not overly excited to see anything more from Biden. His 47+ year career spent in politics while blaming all of the country's problems on a guy who's been in office only 4 years tells me all I need to know. Well that and his many, many Freudian slips on camera. But I do commend you for at least watching the videos. Most just shove their fingers in their ears and basically shout "orange man bad."

 

The truth is, if Biden and Obama were such champions for LGBT rights, why did they wait until most of the way through Obama's second term to legalize gay marriage (2015)? The truth is, they resited as long as they could get away with it politically. Meanwhile, the only "negative" thing Trump is said to have done is the ban on transgender people serving in the military. And the truth to that is that we were already disqualified from service based on our gender dysphoria and/or prior surgery. The only thing his ban did was take away the focus and ire being directed at military processing locations and place it on him... acting as sort of a boogeyman to keep military processing centers out of the legal crosshairs, so to speak.

 

Personally, I care less about our people being prevented from serving than I do about one of us being jumped and beaten or arrested for having the "audacity" to need to pee while out in a public place.

 

And Trump publicly stating that Caitlin Jenner could use whatever bathroom she wished while at Trump Tower speaks volumes. 

 

 

[Mia Marie]

I agree with everything you said Wichita. We have no friend ind Biden, and I don't think he will try and do anything for our community until the next voting season comes around, and that is if the courts don't come around and force a full recount of the states that had issues and the states that quit counting, like Cali at 66% counted, and all the fraudulant ballots found which is why the democrats hope doesn't happen. At the earliest opportunity, Harris will work to get Biden out of the seat she desires and she, in my opinion, would be the anti Christ ( if you think you are christian ) in what she wants to happen in this country which will weaken the country to a point of easy take over from another country.

[MirandaB]

Yes! Keep counting in California, Trump is DEFINITELY going to win there!

 

 

Edited November 9, 2020 by Jackie C.
Personal attack against public figure removed. No name calling sweetie. If *I* have to swallow it, so do you.

[Wichita]

4 hours ago, Mia Marie said:

I agree with everything you said Wichita. We have no friend ind Biden, and I don't think he will try and do anything for our community until the next voting season comes around, and that is if the courts don't come around and force a full recount of the states that had issues and the states that quit counting, like Cali at 66% counted, and all the fraudulant ballots found which is why the democrats hope doesn't happen. At the earliest opportunity, Harris will work to get Biden out of the seat she desires and she, in my opinion, would be the anti Christ ( if you think you are christian ) in what she wants to happen in this country which will weaken the country to a point of easy take over from another country.

You aren't wrong. Harris has really sold her soul by joining Biden's ticket. In less than a year she went "believing Biden's accuser" to "eh...it doesn't matter." And she brought up in the first democrat debate that one of Biden's policies against the black community almost prevented her from getting to where she is today. But I guess she's fine with his history of racism now that she's his running mate.

 

It took Obama and Biden 7 years to do anything for the gay community... 47 if you count Biden's lifelong career in Washington.

[Wichita]

3 hours ago, RhondaS said:

Yes! Keep counting in California, Trump is DEFINITELY going to win there!

 

 

Pretty sure no one said anything about him winning the leftist stronghold that is California. But he could have tons of votes left uncounted there that evens out the popular vote totals.

 

The main concern, of course, are the several battleground states where Trump had a commanding lead and the mysteriously flipped while the country slept.

[Heather Nicole]

8 hours ago, Wichita said:

Truthfully, I'm not overly excited to see anything more from Biden. His 47+ year career spent in politics while blaming all of the country's problems on a guy who's been in office only 4 years tells me all I need to know. Well that and his many, many Freudian slips on camera. But I do commend you for at least watching the videos. Most just shove their fingers in their ears and basically shout "orange man bad."

 

Nobody says anything that boils down to that. We've all heard more than enough from him (including double-talk on nearly every issue) that we already know full well what kind of person he is. I also find that you glossing over the proof I posted of "KvonComedy" taking clips very obviousy out of context speaks more than volumes in the realm of "orange man good, left man bad".

 

8 hours ago, Wichita said:

The truth is, if Biden and Obama were such champions for LGBT rights, why did they wait until most of the way through Obama's second term to legalize gay marriage (2015)?

 

Yes, let's pretend that presidents can do anything they want, any time they want, when the congressional majority is staunchly opposed.

[Ivy]

8 hours ago, Wichita said:

Personally, I care less about our people being prevented from serving than I do about one of us being jumped and beaten or arrested for having the "audacity" to need to pee while out in a public place.

Yeah, this is the thing.

I am not a fan of the current regime, but to be honest, I don't expect much from a new one.  For one thing, congress would be involved…

As long as we are not accepted by society at large we will always be looking over our shoulder.

[Carolyn Marie]

7 hours ago, Wichita said:

Pretty sure no one said anything about him winning the leftist stronghold that is California. But he could have tons of votes left uncounted there that evens out the popular vote totals.

 

The main concern, of course, are the several battleground states where Trump had a commanding lead and the mysteriously flipped while the country slept.

 

There is nothing "mysterious" about votes being counted overnight, when every battleground state was working 24/7 to count them.  Nor is it "mysterious" that many Dem voters, being cautious about the virus, sent in absentee ballots while the President was urging his voters not to do so.  As the saying goes, "be careful what you wish for."

 

Carolyn Marie

[Carolyn Marie]

11 hours ago, Mia Marie said:

I agree with everything you said Wichita. We have no friend ind Biden, and I don't think he will try and do anything for our community until the next voting season comes around, and that is if the courts don't come around and force a full recount of the states that had issues and the states that quit counting, like Cali at 66% counted, and all the fraudulant ballots found which is why the democrats hope doesn't happen.

 

As of Monday morning, CA is reporting that 87 percent of all ballots have been counted, so no one stopped counting and Biden has received 65.6% of the vote for president.  NO fraudulent ballots have been found in CA, and no evidence of fraud has yet been presented in any state court..  I really don't understand why it is so difficult for Republicans to accept that counting ballots, especially in a state with our population, takes time.

 

Carolyn Marie

[VickySGV]

15 hours ago, Wichita said:

The truth is, if Biden and Obama were such champions for LGBT rights, why did they wait until most of the way through Obama's second term to legalize gay marriage (2015)?

 

The two had NOTHING to do with legalizing marriage other than officially acknowledging the Judgment when the Obergfell Case was decided by SCOTUS in June 2015 and in their acknowledgement affirmed their oaths of office in regard to upholding the law as the SCOTUS  determined that it was to be without regard to their personal beliefs on the subject. Since they were neither a party or of counsel to either side of the matter, that was the legal and appropriate thing to do their personal beliefs would not have swayed the case or changed its course. The Department of Justice  at best issued a Friend of the Court Brief in favor of the decision which were done by either the Attorney General or Solicitor General's Office since this was a civil case. I would have to research the whole case to find out which it was and I am bored of researching  cases for that type of irrelevant minutia.  It was not the job of Obama or Biden's offices to be involved or to comment out of court on them since the cases were from state jurisdictions involving laws of the states and thus they did best by staying out of it to the extent they did.  Since the cases that lead to this decision had begun in 2012 or before in the states there was no official reason for them to make their support known, and in fact the 2015 support which could not have happened before was support of the SCOTUS decision.  There are records of personal support as individual citizens or as Senators going back before they became President and Vice President respectively. 

[Wichita]

9 hours ago, Heather Nicole said:

 

Nobody says anything that boils down to that. We've all heard more than enough from him (including double-talk on nearly every issue) that we already know full well what kind of person he is. I also find that you glossing over the proof I posted of "KvonComedy" taking clips very obviousy out of context speaks more than volumes in the realm of "orange man good, left man bad".

 

 

Yes, let's pretend that presidents can do anything they want, any time they want, when the congressional majority is staunchly opposed.

Out of context... you mean that thing the left has been doing to Trump since before he was even elected? Like that?

 

Okay...you showed one full video about one “alleged” out of context quote. 
 

What about the rest? 

[Wichita]

6 hours ago, Carolyn Marie said:

 

There is nothing "mysterious" about votes being counted overnight, when every battleground state was working 24/7 to count them.  Nor is it "mysterious" that many Dem voters, being cautious about the virus, sent in absentee ballots while the President was urging his voters not to do so.  As the saying goes, "be careful what you wish for."

 

Carolyn Marie

Yes there is. All battleground states reported they were “taking a break” at 3 am November 4. By 4 am hundreds of thousands of votes suddenly flipped Trump’s commanding lead. 
 

And Trump never said don’t vote by mail (and people don’t have to obey him if he did). He cautioned about the potential for fraud.

 

And look...he was tight. 

[MaryEllen]

OK folks, second warning. Keep it factual and civil

[Wichita]

6 hours ago, VickySGV said:

 

The two had NOTHING to do with legalizing marriage other than officially acknowledging the Judgment when the Obergfell Case was decided by SCOTUS in June 2015 and in their acknowledgement affirmed their oaths of office in regard to upholding the law as the SCOTUS  determined that it was to be without regard to their personal beliefs on the subject. Since they were neither a party or of counsel to either side of the matter, that was the legal and appropriate thing to do their personal beliefs would not have swayed the case or changed its course. The Department of Justice  at best issued a Friend of the Court Brief in favor of the decision which were done by either the Attorney General or Solicitor General's Office since this was a civil case. I would have to research the whole case to find out which it was and I am bored of researching  cases for that type of irrelevant minutia.  It was not the job of Obama or Biden's offices to be involved or to comment out of court on them since the cases were from state jurisdictions involving laws of the states and thus they did best by staying out of it to the extent they did.  Since the cases that lead to this decision had begun in 2012 or before in the states there was no official reason for them to make their support known, and in fact the 2015 support which could not have happened before was support of the SCOTUS decision.  There are records of personal support as individual citizens or as Senators going back before they became President and Vice President respectively. 

Thank you. You just made my point far better than I could have. Please allow me to correct myself...

 

Neither Obama, nor Biden (with his 47 years in Washington) has done *anything* for the LGBT community except announce that a ruling by the Supreme Court wasn’t in line with their personal beliefs, but they “accept the court’s decision.”

 

Wonderful LGBT champions there.