Still Feeling The Sting.......

[Guest gentleman1]

Hi all!

Are there any here......gotta be!, lol....ex-or even current Catholics on these forums?

I used to be Pentecostal and was an adult convert into the Catholic Church having been "received into the Church" in 2002. This was five years prior to my coming out and transition. When I at long last surrendered to my "transness" and attraction to women, I suddenly faced a jarring collision with my still new Catholic faith and my core identity and sexuality (preferences). I was reeling with the ramifications my coming out would do to me as a member of this one billion plus membership Church. I loved this Church so much and in spite of myself, still have great respect for Pope Benedict XVI! So, when he and others high up in the heiarchy (sp?) condemn us and homosexually oriented PEOPLE, I am very deeply grieved. Suddenly, I'm not "ok" enough anymore. I continued to go to Mass until this year. I stopped going right before Easter. I really miss it, but havn't gone back because I feel like I've lost that sense of "community" and that is very important part of "Communion"....all being "one" in Jesus the Christ (as Sally likes to address "Him"). Well, I think that is my dilemma in going back. I'm not looking for advice necessarily since I feel that I am the only one who can come to a conclusion on this matter.......I darn well almost lost my faith in God altogether over this whole mess, but while I find my faith growing in God, I find my participation within the Catholic Church to still be in "limbo'.......ironic and kindof funny for those who are familiar with pre-Vatican II teaching on "Limbo", but I've rambled long enough now. I just want to know how others deal with feeling "put out" even if it hasn't taken place literally. - S.

[Sally]

While my church does not have any official policy about us like the Catholic church does - when the Pope says it, you had better believe that it is the way the church will be - it certainly is not exactly open to gays and trans, they can make you feel unwelcome.

Love ya,

Sally

[Guest Pól]

I'm Catholic. I basically try not to think about trying to reconcile the two, and just keep them separate. It doesn't work all that well.

[Guest Evan_J]

For me, I was one that couldn't "be" all of those things at once. It was like saying "I'm black AND I'm a member of the Ku Klux Klan" -basically I would be asking myself "sooooo, what? you hate yourself then? or is it just that you agree to call the people who'd rather you die/ not exist/(in the case of catholics) not exist in their world your "family"". It didn't work for me. I couldn't sell myself that I loved me but hold hands and smile with people who (if I can use the phrase from Benedicts end of the season address) feel I'm a "threat to mankind itself". Or any of their other "christian" statements. I couldn't give money to an organization who was going to take my own money and spend it to ensure that I was discriminated against, that legislation that would protect me be repealed or barriered, to break the most "loving" of breads with people who said my love if it was not with who they dictated was unworthy of respect and acknowledgement.

No I would not be Catholic. No I am not Catholic. And no I will not "support" or endorse Catholicism.

[Guest gentleman1]

Thanks all for your replies.

I guess I'm having a hard time because I still hold Catholic beliefs but really have no outlet or place to practice them. I have been to "independent" Catholic churchs and they are alright, but it's just not the same. I have been abstaining from church for awhile now. I just wanted to know if there were any other Catholic trans people on this forum and how they lived their faith and/or dealt with remaining within the Church or without. Evan, you make a good point but the KKK were established for the sole purpose of exclusion of peoples and groups. The Catholic Church is supposed to be for everyone as far as Christianity goes. With much due respect to you, I could take your analogy further and reject Christianity altogether because of its stance on homosexuality and people like us. I just can't do it! I've grown too attached to God and Jesus over my life time.

Pol, my sympathies lie with you my brother! Do you still attend Mass? How do you feel when you are there among all the "gender normative" people? I sometimes feel strong resentment and that distracts me from my worship. A Catholic nun tried to tell me how do I know what the other people are struggling with? To be sure many of them struggle with their own crosses, but how many besides gay people and trans, struggle with such core identity struggles as one's identity?

Skeletonya, you know your way around the Bible. Thanks for your input! And of course thanks to everyone else. God bless you one and all! - S.

I'll be away for a few days, see ya'll back on Sunday nite!

[Guest Elizabeth K]

I am Catholic.

I take communion.

I am at peace with my Creator because I have spoken with him. The Catholic Church is just that, a church. My faith is based upon much of the teachings but I ALWAYS felt there was not 100% consistancy in the leadership- and sometimes too much faith in the leadership, whom after all all human. My most searing criticism of the Catholic church is the advice given by unmarried priests on family crisis issues. Priests only have a hint of what the real world is - but they pray for guidence. And that guidence is usually good enough for them, but who are you going to have the faith in? The priests, the leadership., or GOD?

Well, I pray for guidence also - first, I ask for intecession from the Virgin Mary. What she tells me trumps the church. Secondly, what Jesus tells me trumps again - but ultimately, what GOD tells me is what I listen to. He told me not only to pray to HIM but to take cfull ommunion with the wine - which I previously would forego. It was a miracle what happened - it has given me the rock, the foundation of my transition, this Will of GOD, HIS answer to my request for resolution, his instructions to me - HIS assurance I am perfectly fine in HIS eyes, that HE made me as I am for a reason. I believe and it make my other hardships bearable. HE NEVER LIES! Never has to me, ever!

A Catholic miracle perhaps - my faith - I could not be where I am without it.

I hope this helps - listen to GOD. The Pope does what he can, but GOD tells all.

Elizabeth Anne

[Guest Donna Jean]

In the morning I look to the east.....

The sun rises like it has for eons.............

It doesn't favor me one way or another ....

I'm here....

I make my way through this world...

We all grab what we can.....

Love ...

Donna Jean

[Guest Evan_J]

Evan, you make a good point but the KKK were established for the sole purpose of exclusion of peoples and groups

Actually? Thats not true. The KKK -originating in 1855-56- ACTUALLY was conceived to be a well-intentioned social group for confederate veterans. Their role, goals, and actions became those of the hatefilled group history has documented them as after they become displeased with the number of freed blacks following that civil war. And they based their actions on their interpretations of the bible and "will of God" effectively making themselves "christian" terrorists. Its OUR view of them that lands them as murderers and madmen but the perspective of the traditional Klan was that they were an organization of christians. THAT -for me- would actually be frighteningly similar to that of the Catholic Church in as much as it is intolerant and justifies mental and emotional assault these days (as opposed to some of its historical behaviors that rival the Klan) to "impliment God's will" against identified segments.

And as an organization they "stand out" above the others that do it (cuz others do it) because of the extraordinary political and material "muscle" used against those they target. The Catholic church makes it its business ( amazing that I chose that word.....) to submerse, invest, divest, restructure, andvance and if necessary retreat temporarily only to reemerge as an entity of finance and politics as much as "deliverers of a loving doctrine" often imposing itself on those who do not chose its tenants.

I could take your analogy further and reject Christianity altogether because of its stance on homosexuality and people like us. I just can't do it! I've grown too attached to God and Jesus over my life time.

Except that Christianity actually doesn't reject people like us

Just certain organized sects that claim it.

And I never said I wasn't attached to God (though I admit to having known you might get that impression and saying what I did anyway). In truth (though I like the uh "advocate" role) I am very much "warring" for the only true christian "law" there is. That all love one another.

[Guest Jean Davis]

I was brought up catholic but don't go to church anymore. I like to believe that I belong to a bigger community than the catholic church. The community of God's children. Just because the church can't see God's much larger picture, it doesn't shake my faith .

Jean Davis

[Guest gentleman1]

Wow, Evan_J,

Thank you for educating me! I did not know that about the KKK. That is interesting because from what you say, it sounds like they started out well intentioned but human nature being what it is, got pretty ugly. I never saw the Catholic Church the way you are describing it to be though. Keep in mind that I am a convert to it, not raised. I researched it from a "belief" point of view (history and consistency of beliefs), etc. To be sure, the Church does have an ugly side(es?) to its history that never, EVER should have been, but I am open to any research and information you might want to privately send me as to how you came to your conclusions. Thanks again for educating me though, I LOVE to learn so that I may know what I am talking about.

Thanks to all who replied to this thread. I am spiritually still a work in progress and I anticipate this to take me the rest of my life. God bless you all- S.

[Guest Pól]

Pol, my sympathies lie with you my brother! Do you still attend Mass? How do you feel when you are there among all the "gender normative" people? I sometimes feel strong resentment and that distracts me from my worship. A Catholic nun tried to tell me how do I know what the other people are struggling with? To be sure many of them struggle with their own crosses, but how many besides gay people and trans, struggle with such core identity struggles as one's identity?

I do still attend Mass and I do take communion, but not quite as often as I should. It's sometimes hard for me to go if I'm feeling particularly aware of the conflict. I'm stealth nearly always, so being among 'gender normative' people has never really been a problem for me. I really try not to think about the conflict too much. It's not an issue that I think the Church will resolve in my lifetime. My faith has been, and continues to be, very important to me. I kind of just try to ignore the problem, say a prayer to St. Jude, and hope for the best. I guess I'd like to hope it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. Like I said, it doesn't work so well. >_>

[Guest S. Chrissie]

I am practicing Catholic. And I think Lizzy put it better than I can, so I don't think I have anything to add. My beliefs are similar to her's.

I am Catholic.

I take communion.

I am at peace with my Creator because I have spoken with him. The Catholic Church is just that, a church. My faith is based upon much of the teachings but I ALWAYS felt there was not 100% consistancy in the leadership- and sometimes too much faith in the leadership, whom after all all human. My most searing criticism of the Catholic church is the advice given by unmarried priests on family crisis issues. Priests only have a hint of what the real world is - but they pray for guidence. And that guidence is usually good enough for them, but who are you going to have the faith in? The priests, the leadership., or GOD?

Well, I pray for guidence also - first, I ask for intecession from the Virgin Mary. What she tells me trumps the church. Secondly, what Jesus tells me trumps again - but ultimately, what GOD tells me is what I listen to. He told me not only to pray to HIM but to take cfull ommunion with the wine - which I previously would forego. It was a miracle what happened - it has given me the rock, the foundation of my transition, this Will of GOD, HIS answer to my request for resolution, his instructions to me - HIS assurance I am perfectly fine in HIS eyes, that HE made me as I am for a reason. I believe and it make my other hardships bearable. HE NEVER LIES! Never has to me, ever!

A Catholic miracle perhaps - my faith - I could not be where I am without it.

I hope this helps - listen to GOD. The Pope does what he can, but GOD tells all.

Elizabeth Anne

[Guest Evan_J]

Wow, Evan_J,

Thank you for educating me! I did not know that about the KKK. That is interesting because from what you say, it sounds like they started out well intentioned but human nature being what it is, got pretty ugly. I never saw the Catholic Church the way you are describing it to be though. Keep in mind that I am a convert to it, not raised. I researched it from a "belief" point of view (history and consistency of beliefs), etc. To be sure, the Church does have an ugly side(es?) to its history that never, EVER should have been, but I am open to any research and information you might want to privately send me as to how you came to your conclusions. Thanks again for educating me though, I LOVE to learn so that I may know what I am talking about.

Thanks to all who replied to this thread. I am spiritually still a work in progress and I anticipate this to take me the rest of my life. God bless you all- S.

You're welcome, I say the things I say (not just on this topic)because of what I experience and what I believe (which typically is human affirming or at least that is where I hope to go). Though I know I might "come off" as a bit of a "destroyer " on some level. After posting the post and expending some of the "fuel" (passion, fury, demand for "more" from people than they have given each other) I went "oh wow, I verbally 'tore down the house' as it were, and wondered if that was true that I verbally was "bashing". First , let me tell you, every thing I said was true reference (I was a debate team captain and come from family where substantiating your claims are at a high) wise, also in regard to my view. HOWEVER I know there's a need for people -some people- to follow the Catholic church . Because it gives them hope, because it is a venue for faith, that's something I can't destroy, I'd be wrong. In my moment of fire and fury, often when I see something I perceive as unjust my character goes to 'destroy' mode. This is one though where if you destroy the whole you hurt those who you would seek to help. To take an opportunity to know faith or know hope away from people counteracts the goal.

For someone like me? I dunno what you do. Let people know how you view the institution and where its issues are to you maybe. Then let them figure out how they feel. Maybe they will change it from within. Maybe they don't agree with you. Maybe they leave too. You do what you feel is "the truth".

And I'd love to pm you not just about this either, in general cuz you seem really cool.

I did seek to make a list of things I would like to see different about that particular institution as far as policy and things about the religion itself but well, lol when I got done with the list it was so long it wasn't even Catholicism anymore lol.

[Guest gentleman1]

Evan_J

To be sure, your post concerning Catholicism came across as forceful, and definately NOT for it, lol, but NOT offensive. I suspect you have very good reasons for the way you feel. I can appreciate that and I even want to look into it. So, if you have any sites I can check out and help me begin my research, I'd be grateful. There is nothing wrong with holding strong opinions and convictions, don't we all? I know the Catholic Church has been less than stellar over the centuries, but that's because it is run by men. The reason why I remain Catholic in my beliefs is because there is historical evidence/continuity of the faith and that is what I cling to. These beliefs have been consistently held for many centuries and to be fair, some have developed/evolved but not changed in essence over the years as well. I do not regularly go to Mass yet at this time in my life though. I'm not sure what is holding me back. I did get mighty resentful when I realized that I am no longer a "good Catholic" due to my transexuality/sexual orientation.......because I act on one and fully intend to act on the other when the time is right. I resent the Church's teachings in these areas even though those have been consistently held over the centuries too. Go figure. So, right now, I still seek God and continue my relationship with Him, it's just a little different right now. Your views are appreciated though because that is how I continue to learn, and when I learn, I grow. I love that. Thanks bro! - S.