Test: Physical Markers Of Transsexuality?

[Guest androgynous]

I'm just curious how this test works out for you:

also interested in your opinions.

[Guest nymphblossom]

Thank you for the link! I have the characteristic female angled forearms.

Blossom

[Guest gwenthlian]

Hmm seems my forearms do do that bent thing, never noticed. The idea that this could be used as a test though? *) seems rather simplistic considering all the factors that play a role.

[Guest StormBird]

lol Mine too, I even tried pushing them in and I couldn't do it!

Interesting.

[Guest S. Chrissie]

Not sure where I stand, mine bent at a slight angle though I can make the straight, but they hurt if I do that. *shrugs*

Sherlyn

[Guest SaraNetherlands]

I have female angled forearms myself, but I do not know if this is a result of my physical disability.

[Guest androgynous]

I have it too

Personally I think it has to do with the fact that girls have wider hips and if they did not have that 'angle' those arms would rub against their hips all the time if the arms were straight. Just my theory behind it, sound more plausible to me.

Yeah probably more markers, like the finger length in the other topic. I wonder if there is more?

[Guest skyy]

i've got it too, i always did throw like a girl

[Guest Elizabeth K]

Fun topic - someday there may be a whole list of characteristics and have a scientific certification. My entire life i could NEVER flatten my hand out (like to accept change) without rotating my ebow DEEPLY into my side, causing my forearm to angle out - not slightly, but more like 15 to 20 degrees. My father would tease me about it. My arms flare - always have. If it is a marker, I have it.

But my hips are not wide. And everyone says I walk 'funny' - I am not sure what that means. I was a distance runner in high school (tried to be) in track (we had the state champion my senior year - wasn't me - so obviously I was not in that many competitions and I dropped out). I also was very good in an event that didn't stay in the program - hop, skip and a jump. I was 6' 2 1/2 and 140 pounds.

But why do I walk 'funny? It is really exaggerated when I take small strides.

Other indicators I know of - maybe? (askerisk where I see it on me)

widows peak*

no adam's apple*

high cheel bones*

no or very minimal brow bone projection*

narrow nose (sometimes) *

delicate nostril structure*

large eye socket opening in the scull - 'large eyes' presentation

luxurious lashes

'boxy' scull cap

small jaw projection

pointed chin*

(Very much an indicator) a pointed tip of the tongue

lesser upper lip, exposure of teeth in a smile

very pronounced complexion depth area at the sides of the face - a cheek ridge*

paler skin

lighter hair

of course - little or no body hair*

little and very fine hair on the forearms, none above the elbow

fuzzy body hair rather than well defined 'hairs.'

narrow wrists (now on HRT*)

a longer forearm to upper arm ratio*

and that discussed arm turnout* (new trait to me)

the index finger even to or longer thn the ring finger*

deeper and narrower nail beds

little wrinklng pattern on the nuckles of the hands (young people)

tapering at the ends of the finger tips

of course - femine shaped arms and hands

and feminine shaped legs and feet

smaller feet usually narrowerer

''pudgy' toes or long slender ones

no ankle bone protrusion*

no knee cap protrusion*

fat behind the knees* - no 'cavity' - dimpled sometimes

of course - female fat distriution*

of course, flat stomach - no beer belly or spare tire, more like pudgy fat if it develops

waist ABOVE the belly button*

And most telling, thinner skin, but with subcutanious fat - causing a general rounding. This also shows more of the translucency of what is under - showing blood vessels*

And these are general traits - everyone is different.

And this is JUST FOR FUN!

Lizzy

[Guest nymphblossom]

Here is a link to an article on tooth characteristics that indicates a genetic basis for transsexualism:

Abstract

The aim of the study was to evaluate the odontometric characteristics of female-to-male transsexuals (FtM) in comparison to control groups of males and females. A total of 48 FtM, aged 20–28 years, were studied. For each tooth, two standard measurements were taken: the mesiodistal (MD) and the buccolingual (BL) diameter of the crown. Significant differences between males and females were found in BL measures of all maxillary teeth as well as mandibular lateral incisor and canine. Within the MD measures, the most distinguishing were maxillary and mandibular canines and the first molars. For seven teeth, there were a total of 14 comparisons of MD (half for the maxilla and half for the mandible) between the control men and women. Of these, the men had larger diameters for 12, of which four were statistically significant. There were also a total of 14 comparisons of BL diameter; of these, the men had larger diameters for 13, of which nine were statistically significant. For seven teeth, there were a total of 14 comparisons of MD between the control men and the FtM. Of these, the men had larger diameters for 12, of which seven were statistically significant. There were also 14 comparisons of BL; of these, the men had larger diameters for 10, of which six were statistically significant. For seven teeth, there were a total of 14 comparisons of MD between the control women and the FtM. Of these, the women had larger diameters for nine, of which three were statistically significant. There were also a total of 14 comparisons of BL; of these, the FtM had larger diameters for 13, of which five were statistically significant. Our study revealed that the shift of values of metric features in teeth of FtM towards males was more frequent in the more sexually dimorphic BL diameters characterized by significantly greater width of the crown of five teeth: maxillary canine, first and second molars, as well as mandibular incisors. The results showed intermediate status of female-to-male transsexuals’ teeth between the males and females, which may suggest a genetic basis of transsexualism.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/p84lr51236u24703/

Blossom

[Paula ult]

I'm just curious how this test works out for you:

also interested in your opinions.

There was a topic on another site i belong to about this, and a woman there did a non scientific study on 110 men, the majority of them had arms that angled out and none of them were transgender.

There is another test, you put the back of a chair up against the wall, stand in front of the chair bend over and put your head against the wall, pick up the chair then try to stand back upright while holding the chair, woman can do it but men can not.

Paula

[Guest androgynous]

Fun topic - someday there may be a whole list of characteristics and have a scientific certification. My entire life i could NEVER flatten my hand out (like to accept change) without rotating my ebow DEEPLY into my side, causing my forearm to angle out - not slightly, but more like 15 to 20 degrees. My father would tease me about it. My arms flare - always have. If it is a marker, I have it.

But my hips are not wide. And everyone says I walk 'funny' - I am not sure what that means. I was a distance runner in high school (tried to be) in track (we had the state champion my senior year - wasn't me - so obviously I was not in that many competitions and I dropped out). I also was very good in an event that didn't stay in the program - hop, skip and a jump. I was 6' 2 1/2 and 140 pounds.

But why do I walk 'funny? It is really exaggerated when I take small strides.

Other indicators I know of - maybe? (askerisk where I see it on me)

widows peak*

no adam's apple*

high cheel bones*

no or very minimal brow bone projection*

narrow nose (sometimes) *

delicate nostril structure*

large eye socket opening in the scull - 'large eyes' presentation

luxurious lashes

'boxy' scull cap

small jaw projection

pointed chin*

(Very much an indicator) a pointed tip of the tongue

lesser upper lip, exposure of teeth in a smile

very pronounced complexion depth area at the sides of the face - a cheek ridge*

paler skin

lighter hair

of course - little or no body hair*

little and very fine hair on the forearms, none above the elbow

fuzzy body hair rather than well defined 'hairs.'

narrow wrists (now on HRT*)

a longer forearm to upper arm ratio*

and that discussed arm turnout* (new trait to me)

the index finger even to or longer thn the ring finger*

deeper and narrower nail beds

little wrinklng pattern on the nuckles of the hands (young people)

tapering at the ends of the finger tips

of course - femine shaped arms and hands

and feminine shaped legs and feet

smaller feet usually narrowerer

''pudgy' toes or long slender ones

no ankle bone protrusion*

no knee cap protrusion*

fat behind the knees* - no 'cavity' - dimpled sometimes

of course - female fat distriution*

of course, flat stomach - no beer belly or spare tire, more like pudgy fat if it develops

waist ABOVE the belly button*

And most telling, thinner skin, but with subcutanious fat - causing a general rounding. This also shows more of the translucency of what is under - showing blood vessels*

And these are general traits - everyone is different.

And this is JUST FOR FUN!

Lizzy

I got these (in green)

widows peak

no adam's apple (well not visible)

high cheel bones

no or very minimal brow bone projection

narrow nose (sometimes)

delicate nostril structure

large eye socket opening in the scull - 'large eyes' presentation

luxurious lashes (VERY)

'boxy' scull cap

small jaw projection

pointed chin

(Very much an indicator) a pointed tip of the tongue

lesser upper lip, exposure of teeth in a smile

very pronounced complexion depth area at the sides of the face - a cheek ridge

paler skin

lighter hair

of course - little or no body hair

little and very fine hair on the forearms, none above the elbow

fuzzy body hair rather than well defined 'hairs.'

narrow wrists

a longer forearm to upper arm ratio

and that discussed arm turnout (new trait to me)

the index finger even to or longer the the ring finger (even here)

deeper and narrower nail beds

little wrinklng pattern on the nuckles of the hands (young people)

tapering at the ends of the finger tips

of course - femine shaped arms and hands

and feminine shaped legs and feet

smaller feet usually narrowerer

''pudgy' toes or long slender ones

no ankle bone protrusion

no knee cap protrusion

fat behind the knees - no 'cavity' - dimpled sometimes

of course - female fat distriution

of course, flat stomach - no beer belly or spare tire, more like pudgy fat if it develops

waist ABOVE the belly button

[Guest Jeannine Bean]

There was a topic on another site i belong to about this, and a woman there did a non scientific study on 110 men, the majority of them had arms that angled out and none of them were transgender.

There is another test, you put the back of a chair up against the wall, stand in front of the chair bend over and put your head against the wall, pick up the chair then try to stand back upright while holding the chair, woman can do it but men can not.

Paula

That would have to do with center of gravity, and might change with HRT in many cases.

-BUT-

Actually, one of my co-teachers lost a bet on this with a student.

Plenty of the older teenage boys could do it. And they didn't have wide hips or anything... actually one of them looked quite strong in the upper body to me.

--Jeannine

[Guest Donna Jean]

Fun topic - someday there may be a whole list of characteristics and have a scientific certification. My entire life i could NEVER flatten my hand out (like to accept change) without rotating my ebow DEEPLY into my side, causing my forearm to angle out - not slightly, but more like 15 to 20 degrees. My father would tease me about it. My arms flare - always have. If it is a marker, I have it.

But my hips are not wide. And everyone says I walk 'funny' - I am not sure what that means. I was a distance runner in high school (tried to be) in track (we had the state champion my senior year - wasn't me - so obviously I was not in that many competitions and I dropped out). I also was very good in an event that didn't stay in the program - hop, skip and a jump. I was 6' 2 1/2 and 140 pounds.

But why do I walk 'funny? It is really exaggerated when I take small strides.

Other indicators I know of - maybe? (askerisk where I see it on me)

widows peak*

no adam's apple*

high cheel bones*

no or very minimal brow bone projection*

narrow nose (sometimes) *

delicate nostril structure*

large eye socket opening in the scull - 'large eyes' presentation

luxurious lashes

'boxy' scull cap

small jaw projection

pointed chin*

(Very much an indicator) a pointed tip of the tongue

lesser upper lip, exposure of teeth in a smile

very pronounced complexion depth area at the sides of the face - a cheek ridge*

paler skin

lighter hair

of course - little or no body hair*

little and very fine hair on the forearms, none above the elbow

fuzzy body hair rather than well defined 'hairs.'

narrow wrists (now on HRT*)

a longer forearm to upper arm ratio*

and that discussed arm turnout* (new trait to me)

the index finger even to or longer thn the ring finger*

deeper and narrower nail beds

little wrinklng pattern on the nuckles of the hands (young people)

tapering at the ends of the finger tips

of course - femine shaped arms and hands

and feminine shaped legs and feet

smaller feet usually narrowerer

''pudgy' toes or long slender ones

no ankle bone protrusion*

no knee cap protrusion*

fat behind the knees* - no 'cavity' - dimpled sometimes

of course - female fat distriution*

of course, flat stomach - no beer belly or spare tire, more like pudgy fat if it develops

waist ABOVE the belly button*

And most telling, thinner skin, but with subcutanious fat - causing a general rounding. This also shows more of the translucency of what is under - showing blood vessels*

And these are general traits - everyone is different.

And this is JUST FOR FUN!

Lizzy

LOL!

It's simple......

I just look GOOD!

Haaa ha ha h a...LOL!

Donna (Lookin' good) Jean

[Guest Jeannine Bean]

I will voice my two cents.

I believe that transsexualism, transgenderism, and other deep identity issues are going to prove a tough nut to crack. Currently, these conditions remain idiopathic, and I suspect that eventually there will be discovered a multitude of causes, or contributing factors. It appears that hormone levels at different times in the womb may contribute to it and harry benjamin also noted some testosterone insensitivity in some of his MtF patients. I suspect there will always be some transgendered people who DON'T have ANY of these characteristics, and moreover I think we'll find plenty of cissexuals who do display them. I've read of women who considered themselves cissexual women up until they discovered they had a Y chromosome when they found they could not have kids but they still thought of themselves as women.

Now maybe we'd like to have some easy thing to pin it to in order to gain some social acceptance. Maybe some of this research will contribute to it. But lets think for a second about the human brain. If some structural difference is shown to exist with some transsexual people, that's interesting. But it is also true that you can have a stroke, as an adult, and knock out important speech centers in your brain and your brain can use other places to relearn how to talk, even though the normal places used for that are dead, nada, nil, zilch, gone forever. This tells me that whatever function different parts of the brain are serving in men and women might just be being done by new parts of the brain in people with different structures.

Also, I feel there's a chicken and egg argument at the end of all this, because the brain may develop along lines of what gets used more. I know I felt I was a girl since I was 3 years old. That means I've had 27 years of brain development (including many of the crucial stages) during which I was psychologically developing into a woman. Wouldn't it stand to reason that parts of my brain developed during that time into parts similar to a woman's? And furthermore, the parts that didn't develop into similar with a woman's, I'm not going to let some scientist tell me I'm not a woman in that way. It's quite possible that other parts of my brain learned to do those jobs, like the stroke victim who's brain learns new tricks.

All this is just to say, we are who we are. I sincerely doubt that transsexualism is ever going to be nailed down to simple causes as I think it's a really complex identity construct within the person. We should expect people to treat us like humans who deserve respect, not because some scientists think they know why we feel the way we do, but simply because we're humans who deserve respect. I think trying to understand our transsexualism through the lens that scientists and doctor's give us is a deceptive mistress. I insist that I have human rights that are valid so long as I am not harming anyone else regardless of my sense of identity. Even, for the sake of argument, if being trans was purely a choice, I don't think that choice should exclude me from any of the rights and respect I am entitled to with regards to employment, medical care, protection by the law, access to resources, use of businesses, and all the other things that society provides.

Screw science, I rest my argument on humanity.

--Jeannine

PS: I'm writing this from Taiwan, where transwomen are called RenYao "Monster Person" . . .

[Guest androgynous]

@Jeannine Bean

have u seen my post on the brain in one androgyny topic? was a bout a guy (more cases like this) where scientists discovered at the age of 44 that he was missing around 80% of his brain, scientist were stunned because he led a 'normal' life all these years.

So the role the brain plays has to be revised seriously, if not, why can you function with only 20% of your brain, precisely the parts 'they' thought that make a human being just was not there in this male.

Suffice to say: even science don't have all the answers.

Here is the post I placed about this including images:

http://www.lauras-playground.com/forums/in...st&p=101226

[Carolyn Marie]

@Jeannine Bean

have u seen my post on the brain in one androgyny topic? was a bout a guy (more cases like this) where scientists discovered at the age of 44 that he was missing around 80% of his brain, scientist were stunned because he led a 'normal' life all these years.

Was he a politician? Just curious. Lol

Carolyn Marie

[Guest AllisonD]

...

Screw science, I rest my argument on humanity.

--Jeannine

you present an incredibly compelling argument. I have taken the tests, have been evaluated by psychiatrists for a variety of female indicators, some with indeterminate results, some clearly indicating female or transsexual. Frankly, I don't believe in any of them. Like all of us, I knew when I was four or maybe five, and have been unshakable in my conviction ever since. Unlike some of us, I didn't fight it after the first few early failures to repress it. By the time I was eight I chose to embrace it. At that point it was a choice to accept and embrace instead of repress. Shortly thereafter it was no longer a choice. So regardless of any tests or any approval or any other confirmation, like the rest of us, I KNEW. I consider the tests an amusement, but no one is going to tell me that I am not trans, that I shouldn't have been born female, or that I made a mistake having SRS decades ago. I am the only one on the planet that can make that determination for myself.

Still, the engineer in me is curious as to why I am trans. But I am not hopeful they will figure that out in my lifetime.

Allison

[Guest mia 1]

Me I'm just a fun lovin' non scientific hedonist and enjoy my gender dysphoria,,,Just ask me, I'll tell you...(Honestly I've been on this "high on life bit" for about two straight days.) .well maybe a day and a half.......