Just Learning W Very Young Child

[Guest minerva719]

HI all- I am new. My 5 yo daughter has no diagnosis yet. Her diagnosis per DSM would be different as she does have an endocrine basis (CAH, she was virilized at birth). Just before her 4th bday she started telling me she really didnt want to be a girl. It disappeared for a while, she continued to like pink, like her hair kind of long and in barettes, bt otherwise is very physical, into Spiderman, likes sound effects, cars, planes, refuses to wear dresses. But she didnt say much more. Now a few weeks into kindergarten she has told me "it is a secret" and she only tells me and her dad (tho I dont think she tells him as much) that she feels like a boy. A boy at school has made her feel bad about it. She has got the message from several sources, I am afraid from us (parents- dad & I live separate) a year and a half ago when we encouraged some of her girl-ID, but we also encourage her tomboyishness. My approach, my hope has been that she see more tomboy like role models (powerpuff girls) who are very physical, superheroes, etc - have the qualities she likes - so she does not get the cultural message that those qualities are only for boys. I think that is part of hte misconception. She really has not met even one other girl who is tomboyish, none. She has not even seen that as an option.

I am asking this group for your experience, I dont know if you all have children who have persistent GID and eventually want to become the other gender. Or if some of you have had young children treated in the early stages and found that opening up some options and cultural doors can help a child be more comfortable in their assigned gender. Obviously I am concerned that she feels it must be such a secret at such a young age and has already been made to feel badly about it in kindergarten. I would appreciate any advice

[Guest Jean Davis]

Hi Minerva

Welcome to Laura's

Being that you are new , I moved your topic to the introductions forum so everyone can greet you and you'll get more replies to your questions.

LUV

Jean

[Guest Ariana]

Hey there, Minerva. About your daughter (possibly son?), I wouldn't worry about it too much, as long as you assure your child that it's perfectly alright to be the way they are. But, of course, it may be just extreme-tomboyish, it'll be more obvious if they're actually transgendered, or only very tomboyish. Also, make sure to keep a few extra thousand dollars ready, for your child may decide to get the full treatment ahaha! But you sound like a wonderful mother, the way you're supporting your child like this. Congrats!

[Guest Donna Jean]

Minerva....

Welcome to the Playground, Honey....

There are a lot of wonderful parents here and I'm sure that you'll get some good advice soon...

I 59 MTF and I just wanted to tell you that I admire the fact that you pay attention to your childs

situation and take a loving intrest in having the child become happy.

I know that so many of us here wish that we had a parent or parents the likes of you ...we could of lead a much better life...

So for those of us that never had what you are giving your child....

Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Your child is blessed

Donna Jean

[Guest minerva719]

thank you all for your kind thoughts and support. It means a lot to me to read that. My child- my only child and my only daughter- named for my grandmother whom I never knew but had a beautiful name- is the priority here, I will not let her spirit be destroyed.

I have a call in to the child psychotherapist whom the endocrinologist recommends, she has not called back after several days, which I find strange bc when I called therapists randomly they called back promptly and tho they were sympathetic they did not have the experience I was looking for.

All I know at this point is I want help with this, help so my daughter can express herself and not feel she has to carry some horrible secret. At least she has expressed it to me. I don't know for sure that, say, after some play therapy and investigation, they would say she has full-fledged GID or even that I would call her transgendered at this point. I just read an article that just based on her birth condition and prenatal androgens, she has a 1 in 20 chance of gender dysphoria, that is pretty darn high compared to the general pop, of course you know.

I realize most on this forum who either themselves or famiies have experienced FtM dysphoria, etc, this is for the "transgendered," and that means girls who don't merely feel like tomboys or are realizing they are gay but becoming comfortable as gay women. However since I'm not quite sure what I'm dealing with yet I'd really appreciate being able to use this forum for expression and support, and to let this group know (maybe on the parents' forum??) as it progresses and I learn more.

As you know it's a lonely process, it has been all along with the CAH, the surgery, etc, I see all parents with sick kids being able to share so openly- "oh well he has this ... and the Dr says that... and we go to this specialist.." and with CAH and now with this, you protect your child's privacy, you don't want to reveal too much. A while ago I posted about this on the CAH boards. Some CAH girls have feelings like my daughter has, maybe they pass, but maybe the parents minimize them because they are less surprised, it is expected that the girl will be tomboyish. But I don't even know yet if what she is feeling is more GD than is common in CAH, more than what other CAH parents have dealt with.

well I've rambled on too long.... i'll check back in later... thanks again & hugs to you sweet people!

[Sally]

Dear Minerva,

Sadly much like the schools and the children there many parents decide for their children that they are only tomboys or it is just a phase and cause the deepening of the secretiveness.

Along with it the ever stronger feelings of guilt that accompany living a lie but to the relieved parents they are finally just fine and the way it should be - try checking back with these same parents in about 15 years and see how many are still crowing about how there child is 'normal' and how many are dealing with their child's depression and suicide attempts.

Every one wants a quick cure, those of us in transition want it to be overnight but it is not that easy.

Continue like you have been, supporting your child and if it is determined to actually be GID then you will have to support your son and try your best not to mourn the loss of your daughter she will live on and be much happier as your son if that is what he truly is.

It takes tremendous strength to be transgendered or the parent of a transgendered child and different things will test your strength everyday - the only power strong enough to over come these trials is unconditional love for your child and theirs for you.

Never let that bond weaken and you will both be fine no matter what the diagnosis.

Love ya,

Sally

[TassieTiff]

Minerva,

You seem like a great Mum. Your love for your child is to be admired. I am early 50s and knew from my earliest recollection I was 'different' and that is a recurring story the more TS folks you talk to. Your child is Lucky... Most of us didn't have anything like the sort of support and compassion and understanding you are giving them.

Welcome to the group and remember there is no such thing as a silly question, Education is enlightenment

Regards, Tiff.

[Guest minerva719]

Minerva,

You seem like a great Mum. Your love for your child is to be admired. I am early 50s and knew from my earliest recollection I was 'different' and that is a recurring story the more TS folks you talk to. Your child is Lucky... Most of us didn't have anything like the sort of support and compassion and understanding you are giving them.

Welcome to the group and remember there is no such thing as a silly question, Education is enlightenment

Regards, Tiff.

Hi All- just checking to say thanks for your support. I finally heard back from the endocrinologist-recommended therapist. I will talk to her today while my kid is at school. She has not wanted to talk to me more about her "feeling like a boy." Please remember she is only 5 and has already- apparently by her own decision & strategies - tried to conform and be more girlish, and yet her natural tastes include that she has always liked pink and to have her hair long and in pigtails or barrettes- it is a really mixed picture- that's why I have so many things going thru my head. Like, for instance, I was in a Army surplus store the other day and these 2 cashiers looked like, I guess you could say, masculine women, like I would guess they were lesbians. They looked happy and confident.

So waht makes the difference? There's a page on this website about the 3rd gender- androgynous people - it seems like there are some who are comfortable _acting_ how they feel regardless of their sex, not conforming to expected gender social roles, but not getting surgeries either. If Chastity Bono had not been rich and famous and had more resources than most, would she have gone thru wth becoming the man Chaz? If it is as Chaz said, gender is between the ears not between the legs, then can't this realization help one feel comfortable in their own body, just acting the gender roles they feel are natural to them?

My kid doesn't even know one single "tomboyish" little girl- she's never even seen that it's an option - to just have her sometimes boyish tastes in toys and sports. How might she feel if she met more girls like her?

I know what you mean by TG /FtM is not simply a "tomboy," but at this point for a 5yr old I use it for lack of a better phrase, not as a term of denial.

[Guest CharlieRose]

Sadly much like the schools and the children there many parents decide for their children that they are only tomboys or it is just a phase and cause the deepening of the secretiveness.

Yeah, I was going to point that out. My parents had a wonderful way of rationalizing everything I said and did. Stuff like, "I hate wearing dresses, I feel stupid in them," was greeted with, "Well, a lot of girls feel that way." Even if it wasn't exactly true. Anything masculine I did was explained away by me just being a more masculine girl. It really put my identity back a bit and has probably messed with my self-confidence in my gender.

But you said you're willing to accept her (him) if he really is a boy inside, you just don't know yet, so that's fine. (Well, actually, that's great. )

As of now I'd say he/she could be one of several things:

A confused/repressed boy in a girl's body

A feminine boy in a girl's body (that happens, and can make things more confusing because childhood gender is often times only defined by masculinity/femininity)

An androgyne-type individual in a girl's body

A future lesbian

A future tomboy

A future girl, if a slightly unique one. (If you're this concerned, I doubt it, but, who knows, really?)

You seem to be on the right track, though. Good luck!

[Guest SusanKG]

Hello Minerva, and welcome.

I feel that you have a massive headstart in helping your child through this. And there is a through this. It is not easy, fun or desireable, but it is absolutely necessary to get there. Anyone that has GID has had it all their life. It rarely if ever goes away; it can be self-pushed into hiding, but is there - always; unless it is a phase, which I feel it does not sound like. What surprises me is that there are no tomboys around at all.

I grew up as a semi-sissy male in an era fifty years ago where that was really not advisable being, actually much worse that it is today, though I'm sure the pressure is still intense. It sounds as if she is coping very well considering. But don't ignore it. After all, she has the best thing possible going for her - you.

Give her a hug for all of us.

Love,

SusanKG

[Bulldog1948]

Minerva, Hi & welcome to Laura's, where we are all "Family". We're here to listen and help you in any way humanly possible.

CATH can be a serious problem, if not dealt with by a qualified gender therapist. It falls within the intersexed population. You may also have to take her to an expert in handling this medical problem. Please do not allow her to be treated by a well-meaning but unqualified doctor; they could really mess her up. Please go over to the intersex board and go to the website that I posted. It's written and handeled by qualified intersexual people who know about these types of medical problems and are able to steer you in the right direction; including doctors and therpists.

Please keep us appraised of what's happening with her.

Mike/Bulldog1948

[Guest Kayde]

I just wanted to put this in there ,

but you are a WONDERFUL mother. Honestly.

Many mothers cant understand and go into denial when theyre child comes up front about their gender identity

Since you already are figuring it out, and are supporting her/him, you will definitely see how comfortable her/his life will be with such a support system

I just think that's amazing

[Guest minerva719]

Minerva, Hi & welcome to Laura's, where we are all "Family". We're here to listen and help you in any way humanly possible.

CATH can be a serious problem, if not dealt with by a qualified gender therapist. It falls within the intersexed population. You may also have to take her to an expert in handling this medical problem. Please do not allow her to be treated by a well-meaning but unqualified doctor; they could really mess her up. Please go over to the intersex board and go to the website that I posted. It's written and handeled by qualified intersexual people who know about these types of medical problems and are able to steer you in the right direction; including doctors and therpists.

Please keep us appraised of what's happening with her.

Mike/Bulldog1948

Thanks for your input! .... just wanted to clarify that of course she has been seen/folowed by specialists for CAH since she was diagnosed at birth and takes meds without which she would probably die, as she has severe salt-wasting form (thanks to total gene deletion passed from me, which also affects neighboring gene and causes Ehlers-Danlos syndrome for me).

We have always been very educated about CAH since she was born and made a very educated decision about surgery, she had at 5 mos age (she was a Prader 2 or 3, id'd as girl on ultrasound and at birth).

But someday my little girl will put it all together, she will know that she had surgery (it's not done like they used to up til 70's or even 80's - it is much more sophisticated now) and that she was born a little different. I have thought about telling her, when she's in the mood to talk- that her "feeling like a boy" is related to her CAH. I could not explain it beyond that, I think that would be enough for a kindergartener.

But she hasn't wanted to share more with me recently so I may wait until we start with a therapist, which mainly I am hoping for some play therapy, a good young-child therapist who can encourage her to be open.

As for there being no other tomboys around -We live in a rural mountain area, she just doesn't meet enough peers, all the girls up here are either overly fashionable or hippies' kids; it's nice to be in a very liberal area and school district, but aside from that her classmates are all girly-girls!