The Fifth Gender: The Bissu

[Guest DisDwarf]

This article is quite interesting: http://insideindonesia.org/content/view/484/29/

The biological sex refers to the body, while gender in society refers to things like clothing, mannerisms, etc. There is of course gender identity too which seems to be hardwired in the brain.

The Western culture recognizes two sexes (female and male) with only two genders: female and male.

The Bugis ethnic group in Sulawesi, Indonesia recognizes three sexes (female, male, intersex) and five genders: female, male, calabai (similar to MTF), calalai (similar to FTM), and bissu (similar to genderqueers/androgynes/neutrois/non-binary I think).

In the Bugis culture, the first four genders (female, male, calabai/MTF and calalai/FTM) are "normal" genders each with its own roles in society: calalais/FTMs do many of the things men do but are called calalai rather than men, calabais/MTFs do many of the things women do but are called calabai rather than women. They don't change their bodies, nor they consider themselves women or men, they consider themselves calalai or calabai and they just do what women or men do.

The fifth gender, the bissu (like our genderqueers/androgynous/neutrois/non-binary) is a person who is meta-gender, gender-transended, or beyond-gender. The bissu are a combination of all genders, and they have their own distinct clothing which combines some female and male characteristics, they also have their own gender role (that of a priest or communicator with the gods/spirits). It's mostly intersex people who get the bissu gender role. The Bugis people believe that bissus who have a male body have a female soul, and that those who have a female body have a male soul. The bissu are allowed to socialize and mingle with both women and men.

All sexes and genders in the Bugis society enjoy equality and no one is considered inferior to another.

Would you feel comfortable in such a society? which gender role would you prefer to have in the Bugis society?

See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bissu

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calalai

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calabai

[Guest Katrina_Carter]

I am having a hard enough time figuring out my own gender with only 2 options right now. If I had 5 I had to chose from I can't think of a single reason it would be any easier.

[Guest DisDwarf]

I am having a hard enough time figuring out my own gender

Sometimes I think that there might be more in the transgender spectrum than people of a gender born in a different body or people who are non-binary. I sometimes feel as if there might be some non-binaries who actually are pre-programmed in their brain to not fit into societal gender roles and do and behave as they see fit in each moment. Strange thought, but I wouldn't be surprised if gender neurology is much more complex than the common accepted answers to the question "what gender are you?". Perhaps some people are neurologically a-gendered.

[Guest Anna_Banana]

...And if you order now, you'll get not one gender, not two genders, but ten genders!! All for the low, low price of $19.95!!!

.Billy Mays

[Guest Eth]

Well I can name I think at least 10 genders I've heard of off the top of my head... just society is stupid and doesn't recognise people outside of male/female.

That particular aspect of that society sounds interesting. I'm not sure it'd be ideal entirely but it might be better than what we've got here where they don't recognise anything outside of what they can see by looking at a person's genitals.

愛 Eth

[Guest Lynnx]

That's cool. Told ya cultural acceptance mitigates dysphoria.

Using those keywords i found a National Geographic video on it: http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/.......

[Guest Kaitlyn88]

Well since they don't physically alter their bodies, they just switch societal roles that still wouldn't be good enough for me. I don't just want the roles, I want my body to match what my brain says should be there. So I guess I still wouldn't fit in any of those even with 5 unless they welcome MTF transsexuals as women and automatically put you in that category. After my transition I don't even see gender so much any more, everyone seems to have an unique combination of masculine and feminine attributes, both mentally and physically.

[Guest Javey]

Hmm, very interesting!

[Guest Anna_Banana]

I actually did want to give this topic a serious reply because I thought the subject matter was interesting. I read the first article posted, and while I think the concept is an interesting idea, it seems slightly flawed still. For instance, the calalai are females who conform to the roles of men in every way, but do not alter their body. Now that's fine and in fact, this would be acceptable for many FtMs. However, it's the calabai that got to me. These are males who take on SOME of the roles of females. They don't adhere to the female restrictions, instead picking and choosing the rights and limitations of men as they so choose. That doesn't bode well with me because it suggests that masculinity is the most important factor in their society. Natal females get shafted for being born female and thinking femininely. But the restrictions are lifted if you are a masculine female.

And then let's not even get started on the Bissu. You have to be one in a billion to be born physically male and female. You aren't allowed to just identify as androgynous. To be honest, other then the Bissu, I don't see how this five gender system is any different then what we already have in our first world countries. FtM's and butch women are generally more accepted then MtF's, and to be honest, from the article's description, I wouldn't say those individuals were really MtF.

.Anna

[Guest ChalenAustin]

I should creat the sixth gender of the world.... Hmm????

[Guest Joanna Phipps]

Hmmm I have crossed the divide only to find the binary again. I consider myself simply a woman, no longer transsexual but transgender (if I must be trans anything). Thats the point Im at in mine, but it sure is interesting to see how other cultures handle the gender differences.

[Guest Lynnx]

I actually did want to give this topic a serious reply because I thought the subject matter was interesting. I read the first article posted, and while I think the concept is an interesting idea, it seems slightly flawed still. For instance, the calalai are females who conform to the roles of men in every way, but do not alter their body. Now that's fine and in fact, this would be acceptable for many FtMs. However, it's the calabai that got to me. These are males who take on SOME of the roles of females. They don't adhere to the female restrictions, instead picking and choosing the rights and limitations of men as they so choose. That doesn't bode well with me because it suggests that masculinity is the most important factor in their society. Natal females get shafted for being born female and thinking femininely. But the re

[Guest Lynnx]

I actually did want to give this topic a serious reply because I thought the subject matter was interesting. I read the first article posted, and while I think the concept is an interesting idea, it seems slightly flawed still. For instance, the calalai are females who conform to the roles of men in every way, but do not alter their body. Now that's fine and in fact, this would be acceptable for many FtMs. However, it's the calabai that got to me. These are males who take on SOME of the roles of females. They don't adhere to the female restrictions, instead picking and choosing the rights and limitations of men as they so choose. That doesn't bode well with me because it suggests that masculinity is the most important factor in their society. Natal females get shafted for being born female and thinking femininely. But the restrictions are lifted if you are a masculine female.

And then let's not even get started on the Bissu. You have to be one in a billion to be born physically male and female. You aren't allowed to just identify as androgynous. To be honest, other then the Bissu, I don't see how this five gender system is any different then what we already have in our first world countries. FtM's and butch women are generally more accepted then MtF's, and to be honest, from the article's description, I wouldn't say those individuals were really MtF.

.Anna

Yes, i think that is the case that masculity is more valued there. I've been reading more about this culture and they have very strict notions (old fashion to our minds) about what a woman and a man can do. It may be because of this strictness that this system evolved. They don't accept homosexuality, so one person has to be regarded as a man and the the other regarded as a woman.

As for the Bissu, i'm not sure if it is so strict that you have to be born with ambiguous genitial to be one. I'll have to read more about that.

But the cool thing is, if your not satisfied with the gender roles, there is a way out, and it is condoned and accepted by their society.

And wouldn't that be nice.

Here is something from a foreign researchers point of view on the calalai : http://intersections.anu.edu.au/issue6/graham.html It is more interesting because is shows the complexity of the culture.

[Guest Lynnx]

And here is something about the bissu:

" So who are bissu? Bissu are imagined to be intersexed beings who embody female and male elements. While it is enough that one’s body is imagined intersexed, while often being anatomically male, bissu consciously dress in ways that highlight male and female characteristics. "

http://etransgender.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=559

[Guest Lynnx]

And you've got to be in touch with the gods to be a bissu. I find it odd how cultures like the American indian's shamans, and the Indonian bissu all think that we have a special connection to God. It's a ponderer.

-------------------------------------------

"To be a bissu one has to incorporate aspects of all genders. In most cases this seems to mean to be born as an intersexual - hermaphroditic individual, however, there also seem to be some cases in which a bissu is physically fully male or female.

It is believed that one is born with the ability to become a bissu. This can be shown in a baby whose genitalia is ambiguous. Ambiguous genitalia [see intersex] is not enough to ensure that you become a bissu. Ambiguous genitalia need not be visible - a birth male who becomes a bissu is believed to be female on the inside. By the age of about twelve, if a child demonstrates a close connection with the spirit world, they are groomed to become a bissu. In the past, such a child would be apprenticed to the royal court. Nowadays, a child will become the apprentice of an individual bissu. After many years of training and undergo a number of tests, an apprentice bissu such as lying on a bamboo raft in the middle of a lake for three days and three nights without eating, drinking or moving. If the apprentice survives this and wakes from the trance fluent in the sacred bissu language Basa Bissu or Bahasa Dewata (language of the gods), they are then accepted as a bissu.

It is believed that those who are some kind of a 'gender threshold', also stand at the threshold between the zahir and the batin or the obvious and the hidden world. This idea correponds to the ancient muslim idea of the khuntha and the mukhannath being 'guards of sacred boundaries' and to the traditional role that many intersex and transgender people have in certain other traditional muslim societies , but in this case it seems to be of ancient local origin."

-http://www.transgenderzone.com/library/ae/fulltext/34.htm