Deep Stealth –or Wear The ‘t’ Shirt

[Guest Zenda]

Kia Ora all - deep stealthers, semi stealthers, those who wear the 'T' shirt and those who are still thinking about the possibly options...

‘Out of one closet into another!’ …that’s how some people describe ‘stealth’ living…

Now I’m not against anybody who physically ‘can’ and chooses to go deep stealth-assimilate into society erasing one pass male existence…Who am I to judge ..But I’ve found being ‘semi’ stealth is a much more comfortable position to be in [semi stealth as in being comfortable with my past should I be ‘outed’ but not broadcasting it to every one I meet]…But it has its problems too.

I‘ve found at times it can be a real pain in the memory butt…Not to mention very uncomfortable when having to lie through my teeth, example “And what school did you go to?” this question coming from a person I had just met who happens to have grown up in the same suburb a few streets along from where I lived[and I’m talking about a chance encounter 12 thousands miles away from that London suburb… in another country]…Ummm now which girls school was that ?..In my case I went to an ‘all boys’ high school ‘Paragon secondary modern’ fortunately ‘Trinity’ Girls high school was just around the corner from it -easy to remember one might think! But no… ‘Paragon’ is five years ‘entrenched’ in my mind and naturally always springs to mind first…

Or the time when having coffee with a group of women friends and the conversation swings [as it normally will do with middle age women] to children, pregnancy and birth …I have four children and will NEVER deny their existence…

Now in reality all my children were ‘home’ births I was there participating in all their births cutting the cords etc…but I wasn’t the one lying on the bed pushing or feeling the pain…in situations like this I will often try to change the subject…or make an excuse and leave or just play dumb…

Or when my neighbour who lives upstairs [who as met all my children when they came to visit me] asked me why my children are not living with me…why are they living with their ‘father’ my ‘husband’? I told her it was to do with school and friends etc…why drag them away from where they are comfortable? Plus I WILL NOT perform a verbal ‘sex change’ on my ex wife…’Partner’ is how I always respond when someone refers to my ex as “husband” or ‘he-him’… I go “Ummm my partner!” perhaps they think I was living in a lesbian relationship who knows…

Now you have to realize the reason why I don’t blur out “Oh I was born with a ‘boy thingy!” what a spanner in the works that would be… I DON’T want to make others feel uncomfortable by divulging my past [if I don’t have too]… But if I feel the people I’m with won’t be shocked then I might put on my ‘T’ shirt’…

Those of you who feel you may never fully assimilate into society as your affirmed gender i.e., ‘pass’ in your affirmed gender in public…but are doing it anyway…You should look on the bright side …Firstly you’re able to live in your preferred gender but with no 'sticky' moments having to lie through your teeth ‘honesty is the best policy’[and the safest]…people who accept you - accept you for who you are no strings attached- you really know who your friends are…[i’m sure some people I know if they were to find out about my past would treat me differently possibly with some resentment because I was born with a ‘boy thingy’]…

Most importantly you’re paving the way for ‘acceptance’ for those who come after you…You’ve got the ‘T’ shirt to prove it!!!

Have any of you given it any thought when you start to affirm your gender…will you be ‘stealth’ ‘semi’ stealth or wear the ‘T’ shirt…? or for those who are out of the closet ...where are you at ...does your 'T' shirt still fit ?

Ps this is an old topic been through the mill a few times…

But hey so have I…

Metta Jendar

[Guest Madison_Always]

ive thought about it and i think i would want to go stealth w/ the exception of my family. i just cant see myself broadcasting myself. i am rather shy. but to me just blending into society as a women is my goal. and i just like that option best at this point.

[Guest Drew]

this is an interesting topic. personally i don't feel comfortable wearing the 't' shirt, i'm scared of how people would respond. i pass flawlessly so i don't really need to wear the shirt but i also won't deny it if someone asks. whenever topics of a "teenage guy nature" come up i just nod along and try not to act too awkward. if i get hit in the groin with something i'll fall over and have a pained look on my face. i doubt i'll ever be comfortable wearng the 't' shirt but we'll see.

Drew

[Guest elenag]

I've given this a lot of thought. I can't see how I could possibly be 100% stealth. I have children. I'm still married and living with my wife. I'm also too old and had too many jobs. There's no way I can change my history, nor do I want to.

People are going to treat me differently due to what I am, but what other choice do I have? It's impossible to please everyone. As long as I have a handful of friends and mildly supportive co-workers, I can manage. It will help that I'm moving to a more liberal/progressive part of the country. I think location is fairly important.

How I've handled it so far, at least with online acquaintances, is by referring to my wife as my spouse. In person I don't pass so well because I'm so early in transition, but after FFS I will handle things differently. I just don't like the "partner" word.

I don't get out much so social interactions are pretty much non-existent at the moment, but I suppose I'll have to deal with those when the time comes, when I'm truly full-time.

If the person I'm talking to is a close friend and important to me, I'll probably out myself rather than makeup lies to explain things, but I won't do that frequently. I will probably always be out at work, but I'm planning on telling people outside work that my wife is my sister-in-law and I'm living with her to help raise her children. It will explain why our last names are the same and why we live together. We no longer live as husband and wife so it's not much of a stretch since our relationship has become more like close friends. I will always remain somewhat evasive and private with people, but really that's not much different than how I've always been. It's not the best solution but I don't know how else to handle it.

I won't wear the t-shirt, and I will never needlessly announce that I'm trans. There's simply nothing to be gained by that.

[Guest Mr. Fox]

I do not have the option of stealth at the moment if I transition right now, not even semi-stealth, unless my family moves. I do not expect them to change their entire lives for me. Luckily I do not live in Redneck, Alabama. LAter when I move, I plan to be stealthish but not with friends or dates.

[Guest Andrea-M]

I too have given this chestnut a great deal of thought in the past. Although I have concluded that for me to keep my business running smoothly I have to be out and wear the "T" shirt , at least for now , (even though i also don't consider that i pass well, at least before FFS and some more effect of HRT). This could be possitive (so far it seems postive with the people that do know.... most have commented that they are more interested in the quality of the work and and a first class service with a minimium down time than what gender i am) generlly i have found that the more intelligent the people are that know the better it is accepted.(I run a service/engineering company)

As to family, my parents know , and my sister(all supportive), I am pretty sure my family on my partents side will know soon enough(Ithink most will be supportive especially my cousins), and some people on my wife's side know (not supportive, well that would be the case (their problem being not being sympathetic to my situation buting not understanding why i am being so selfish.....)

That really only leaves the people in my local neighborhood which i am trying not to let know for my kids sake , i.e. school and being bullied.

So if anything i have to be various stealths depending on the situation, unless you are very young (late teens) and have the opportunity to move from your formative stomping ground and start a life where no one knows you ..at all.. It would appear to be very difficult to achieve 100% stealth.

I feel at the min that if someone asks my about my appearance, which i would say was rather androgenous, i would tell them what about my situation if i felt they could deal with it , everyone apart from 1 has dealt with it.(so far.....)

[Guest Ryles_D]

Same as with my sexuality. It's none of their business. If it comes up, will I lie? No. Then, I'll probably be a lot more open about being asexual than trans. I'd rather deal with the stupidity I'll get from that.

Yeah, at first I'll have to be open since I'll probably be transitioning during college. But after? Probably more stealth than not. I mean, why would it come up?

[Guest StarCrystal]

In the beginning I was thinking deep stealth was the way to go, other than for family members of course. But the more I have read on it, the more I think a semi-stealth type of thing would be better. Definitely for romantic relationships, because it would be better to out myself to them early on rather than being outed by someone else later on and having to deal with the fallout. As to when to out myself, that is something else entirely. For close friends, maybe. Just depends on how I think they'd take it, and if it really even mattered to tell them.

Luckily my past is so generic that I don't really need to make up much, if anything. I never really did anything exclusively male, and all my schools were multi gendered so that won't be an issue either. Just start using female pronouns and I'm pretty much set! The biggest issues would probably crop up during talks about puberty or (God forbid) periods. I'll admit it right now, I still have absolutely no idea why girls like to discuss that... it's like talking about the gory details of your surgeries! I'll also probably have some issues early on in the transition with work, and maybe some issues with college. Otherwise, I should be pretty much set

[Guest Sergei]

I could easily go deep stealth, I did before T, and now I have had four shots of the stuff I could do it even easier. But I would never want to, I like to "wear the T-shirt". I personally think its a really cool thing to be a transperson. Anybody who overcomes a medical condition or a disability need serious respect, and its the same with us. We have all survived, or are surviving through major identity issues. Building lives for ourselves from scratch at much later ages. Learning to do everything again from nothing. I think that is something to be very proud of, and I would never hide the fact for one moment that I am trans. I walk around, and am very proud to be open with everybody that I'm a transgendered man.

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

I could easily go deep stealth, I did before T, and now I have had four shots of the stuff I could do it even easier. But I would never want to, I like to "wear the T-shirt". I personally think its a really cool thing to be a transperson. Anybody who overcomes a medical condition or a disability need serious respect, and its the same with us. We have all survived, or are surviving through major identity issues. Building lives for ourselves from scratch at much later ages. Learning to do everything again from nothing. I think that is something to be very proud of, and I would never hide the fact for one moment that I am trans. I walk around, and am very proud to be open with everybody that I'm a transgendered man.

That's so awesome, man. I want to be out and proud, but I am still scared to jump in with both feet. You are so right about how transpeople deserve some respect for the struggles we go through. Building a life from scratch is tough work! For me, the even tougher part is tearing down the fake life I built up to please everyone else. I want to start my new life with a clean foundation.

[Guest Ryan]

I'm an activist at heart, and so I don't think I'll be going completely stealth anytime in the foreseeable future. Too much work to be done! At this point in my life, I don't have much choice. I'm visibly gender nonconforming, and most people can't really tell for sure if I'm a boy or a girl. It's draining and difficult at times, but I think I would still choose to be out about it even if my gender expression were more easily classifiable. It's a really personal and important choice that we all have to make, and the answer is different for everyone, but for me I think I'm happier this way, at least for now.

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

I'm an activist at heart, and so I don't think I'll be going completely stealth anytime in the foreseeable future. Too much work to be done! At this point in my life, I don't have much choice. I'm visibly gender nonconforming, and most people can't really tell for sure if I'm a boy or a girl. It's draining and difficult at times, but I think I would still choose to be out about it even if my gender expression were more easily classifiable. It's a really personal and important choice that we all have to make, and the answer is different for everyone, but for me I think I'm happier this way, at least for now.

Hi five for the activism, man! That's where I see myself heading in the future too. I feel a really strong burden to reach out and try to help my trans brothers and sisters in any way I can.

[Guest GoldenKirbichu]

I can't see myself being stealth. I have the desire to tell people because I don't like to keep secrets and I want to raise awareness. That being said, I don't go and tell everyone on the street that I'm a transman. I just tell people who I think I can trust.

[Guest Christine-Louise]

I tried the deep stealth thing at the start, but then I though (WHY) I then gave it up, I am just Me living the life I should have had for so long, so I go out as Me and if by chance someone should ask (or queries Me) I have to be honest within reason of course, and depending on who is asking, I find that most are inquisitive and want to ask more about the how's and whys, they quite often say you must suffer awful abuse from people, when I say yes they say why do you put yourself through it then, and I say well it's not choice I have to (it's Me) that foxes them, they can't understand why you put yourself through HELL, you have to to live I tell them, there is only one alternative and that horrifies them.

But you have to remember that I live in the UK, and I think that on the whole folk are just that little bit more understanding over here.

[Guest Sergei]

But you have to remember that I live in the UK, and I think that on the whole folk are just that little bit more understanding over here.

That is very true, especially where I live in London. The culture here is so diverse that knowbody cares about things like race, religion, sexuality, or gender. People are just people. I hope one day the whole world will be this way.

I read a fantastic article in a book I was reading last night by a transman called Jamison Green called 'Look! No, Don't! The Visibility Dilemma for Transsexual Men' It really made me think a lot more about the issues of deep stealth or 'wearing the T-shirt' I don't know if you can get the article online, but if I find a link I will post it.

[Guest Christine-Louise]

Isn't it nice that some folk can be just that FOLK, but maybe it is peculiar to London alone, though MY area is pretty good, lets hope it becomes catching and spreads though out the world, for the benefit of everyone.

Maybe it's a Miracle that we all need to get this world of ours to LOVE and acept others who may NOT be as they are.

[Guest whoami?]

well ive been in stealth for months and it's a pain in the donkey!!! anyway it is tough but possible. i just wanted to say that im starting transitioning next month and when my breasts get big enough that people will notice then ill start wearing it in public. if you get my drift

[Guest Sarah Dreams]

For me the dream is to become as much a woman physically as I can. I want to be a woman, not a trans-whatever. Transgender, transsexual implies a transitory state. I have a definite goal in mind and that goal is not to be forever transiting.

[Guest Zabrak]

As soon as I can go stealth I will. Right now I can look pretty male even off of T, but thats only how I see it. I'm not 100% sure others think it. From what I gather people can only tell I'm female because of my voice and soft skin. Once I start on T and get my deep voice I'm going in full stealth mode. If someone asks, I'll admit it, but thats about it. I'm sure I can pass pretty easily.

[Guest Dr.Metropolis]

This is a subject I have been giving much thought lately.

I believe myself to be an androgyne - one that likes dressing as a woman. I can feel confident and sexy in women's clothes. However, I do not hate my genitals or wish for SRS. On the other hand, I do want to get HRT. I want to have womanly secondary sex characteristics, but keep my male primary sex characteristics. In this sense, I want to become androgynous in my body to match my mind.

Switching to real life this weekend. At the show we played on Friday, we dressed up for Halloween. I dressed just as a woman (a lot more expertly than most men would take the time to do) and talked like normal. In this sense, I didn't try to "pass" as a woman, though physically I looked like one. I felt the most confident at a show that I ever have. I felt sexy (I wore some fishnets, heels, and this cute brown dress). I realized, though, if I had to disguise my voice and try to pass as a woman, this would have made me uncomfortable. My face isn't totally passable, and so I think I will always get a little funny look when people saw me up close.

This leads me to believe that I'm most comfortable when I can be accepted in that state - the androgyne. Feminine and masculine features, dressed femininely, with a male voice. I'm not going to go for the over-the-top genderfucking breasts and beard, but I want to be who I truly am all the time, which will be somewhat of a --Censored Word-- with the mismatch of voice/body. I feel like it will make it easier in friendships and romantic relationships in a sense. On the one hand, I will have a radar for open-minded people: if people are comfortable with who I am, then I won't have to even question their open-mindedness or their willingness to hang around with a transgendered person. On the other hand, it will be harder for closed-minded people to accept me if they reject me right away before they get to know me.

What do you guys think?

[Guest Dr.Metropolis]

This is a subject I have been giving much thought lately.

I believe myself to be an androgyne - one that likes dressing as a woman. I can feel confident and sexy in women's clothes. However, I do not hate my genitals or wish for SRS. On the other hand, I do want to get HRT. I want to have womanly secondary sex characteristics, but keep my male primary sex characteristics. In this sense, I want to become androgynous in my body to match my mind.

Switching to real life this weekend. At the show we played on Friday, we dressed up for Halloween. I dressed just as a woman (a lot more expertly than most men would take the time to do) and talked like normal. In this sense, I didn't try to "pass" as a woman, though physically I looked like one. I felt the most confident at a show that I ever have. I felt sexy (I wore some fishnets, heels, and this cute brown dress). I realized, though, if I had to disguise my voice and try to pass as a woman, this would have made me uncomfortable. My face isn't totally passable, and so I think I will always get a little funny look when people saw me up close.

This leads me to believe that I'm most comfortable when I can be accepted in that state - the androgyne. Feminine and masculine features, dressed femininely, with a male voice. I'm not going to go for the over-the-top genderfucking breasts and beard, but I want to be who I truly am all the time, which will be somewhat of a --Censored Word-- with the mismatch of voice/body. I feel like it will make it easier in friendships and romantic relationships in a sense. On the one hand, I will have a radar for open-minded people: if people are comfortable with who I am, then I won't have to even question their open-mindedness or their willingness to hang around with a transgendered person. On the other hand, it will be harder for closed-minded people to accept me if they reject me right away before they get to know me.

What do you guys think?