Being Androgynous Out In The Real World.

[Guest Cherri]

I don't know what it is, but I'm having trouble with this.

I guess it's that I'm not really going for a neutral look, but more of an all in one sort of deal. I think a lot of the reasoning behind that is that I don't really think I can pull off the look. I mean, I have wide shoulders, a goutee, ect. I'd like to be able to tell others about who I am when they ask me why I'm stressed out or feeling alone, but I don't want to be judged.

I mean, the closest I've come to being open in public about it is by wearing a girl's shirt outside of the house, but it's hard to tell that that's what it was unless you're really looking (however, I do work in a place that prints custom designs on t-shirts, so maybe it was more noticeable than I thought.).

I think when I order my new forms this Friday, I may get some that are rather small, so that I might be able to get away with wearing them out and about without people being able to tell. Of course, I would imagine they'd be able to see the bra straps though...I don't know, it's like I only feel whole when I'm wearing them.

Anyone have any advice as far as slowly transitioning to that middle ground in public? I imagine that trans individuals might have some good advice too.

Thanks so much everyone, you're all amazing!

Much love

-Cherri

[Guest Elizabeth K]

I don't know what it is, but I'm having trouble with this.

I guess it's that I'm not really going for a neutral look, but more of an all in one sort of deal. I think a lot of the reasoning behind that is that I don't really think I can pull off the look. I mean, I have wide shoulders, a goutee, ect. I'd like to be able to tell others about who I am when they ask me why I'm stressed out or feeling alone, but I don't want to be judged.

I mean, the closest I've come to being open in public about it is by wearing a girl's shirt outside of the house, but it's hard to tell that that's what it was unless you're really looking (however, I do work in a place that prints custom designs on t-shirts, so maybe it was more noticeable than I thought.).

I think when I order my new forms this Friday, I may get some that are rather small, so that I might be able to get away with wearing them out and about without people being able to tell. Of course, I would imagine they'd be able to see the bra straps though...I don't know, it's like I only feel whole when I'm wearing them.

Anyone have any advice as far as slowly transitioning to that middle ground in public? I imagine that trans individuals might have some good advice too.

Thanks so much everyone, you're all amazing!

Much love

-Cherri

Cherri - dang half the answers are from me for some reason!

YES - as a transitioning MTF I know what you are saying - how far can you go and - more importantly - how far do you WANT to go!/

I CD'd for some 50 plus years and just HAD to be myself to SOME degree in public! DANG - gotta do that! Still do!

Several levels here (1) undergarments (2) girl clothing and accessories that look gender neutral and (3) going for a true androgynous look (and subsequent reputation)

There are attitudes I found looking at all the above from the viewpont of a crossdresser, that are completely different from the viewpoint of a transsexual. The difference (in my opinion) is a CDer wants to have feminine clothing and accessories, a transsexual wants to BE female in her dressing patterns. My opionion is NOT scientific fact - plus as a transsexual it is also fun to express a bit of femininity.

Short explaination? I dress female to affirm my self-image!

(1) undergarments? Panties are the rule - toss out ALL your male boxers and briefs - never buy male underwear again, ever! This is tricky as there are different kinds of girl panties. Find the ones that fit you best. Remember to go for utility as you will be using them EVERYDAY from now on. Find the ones that don't creep down, or bind you in the wrong places. And don't buy the cheap brand, go with Hanes for Her or other good brands. Buy a few frilly panties just for fun, but base your wardrobe on utility.

Bras? Well - this might break your heart, but on HRT I now use bras for what they were designed for. When CDing I loved them just for their fit and feel - and I had very little to put in them - which has changed. BUT- that said, bras are reaaaaaaaally affrirming - both for femininity and for femaleness... the problem is they out you in a second! So bras are risky. Your having to contantly adjust the straps is a totally female gesture and cannot be explained away. Plus, no matter how hard you try, they show through. Sports bras are usually the best bet to sorta stay stealth, but even then - risky.

Hoisery - put here because this is usually in the form of panty hose, which is like underwear. Okay - a good thing - but.... so seasonal - very hot in the summer! And they are expensive - yikes - and they run! So I switched to trouser socks (summer), and to tights (winter). GET A SIZE that fits! Constant adjusting your panty hose is a pain. Also know, if wearing panty hose, you have just commited to peeing sitting down.

(2) girl clothing that looks gender neutral - wow - big difference. That's obviosly a step into really being andrognous! I am full time everywhere except at work (kept getting fired for transitioning!) So I learned how to dress TOTALLY as a woman and no one seems to notice. The underwear is hidden, I usually don't wear the bra unless the girls are sensitive - but:

Penny Loafers

Trouser socks

Girl jeans

Tank top as 'underwear

Whire dress shirts - usually male side bought - but totally soft and cut like a blouse

Necklaces (bulky Native American Indian turquoise)

Bracelets (so what - usually heavier stuff a man MIGHT wear)

and my long hair in a pony tail

I DONT wear earrings (except away from work - small gold hoops) and I dont wear make-up (too risky).

Sometimes I stop and realize I am TOTALLY in women's clothing and accessories, and no one notices.

(3) going for a true androgynous look (and subsequent reputation) YIKES

Self explainatory! You will get a reputation! BUT if you are secure in your self - and others really won't judge you too harshly because you 'eased' into all this?

'Slightest touch' of concealer - applied so it is not noticable - spin? Skin condition medication.

Gold hoop or silver hoop earrings (better than studs) - spin? All the cool people have earrings these days

Slight heels in your shoe selection - especially if you are short.

Patterned back pocket jeans - men's fashions are picking this up from women's - really street clothes now

Feminine belt - something 'artsy fartsy' - spin - special designer belt - artwork!

Hand bag (woah - gutzy thing!) Start with a computer bag, work to a satchel - end with a high quality , plain leather purse - oversized for the 'male'

Really expensive shirts and blouses - man tailored works best - also frilly western wear can be substituded

LONG HAIR - an expression of your free spirit

LOTSA jewelry - anything goes as long as it isn't extremely fru-fru! You would be amazed what people accept on you! Artzy fartzy again

OKAY

OVER THE TOP STUFF

Skirts and dresses - barrettes in the hair, flowers and bows - really feminine shoes - eye makeup

Go as far as you dare - and get the reputation you want. But know you may have to explain all this is NOT a sexual orientation over and over again. You are just ANDROGYNE.

Hope this helps

Opinionated and constantly posting, Elizabeth

[Guest Bunny]

*blinblink* Well... That just covered a whole lot of everything!

I have to disagree on bra straps outing you and easily being seen under shirts and being adjusted. Then again, I've been wearing them for like 10 years and unless they don't fit right I've never had to mess with them! But wearing one under a not 100% skin tight shirt the straps wouldn't utterly show. Tighter shirts you'll be dealing with more showing but a correct color and decent sized strap wont stand out like a total elephant in the room. Starting small would be a good idea, measure yourself well and pick a bra that isn't meant to look good when its all you're wearing but something that you can wear about without noticing more or less.

What else can I think of... Nail polish! Silver, blue, green, red and yellow! It's still more of a female thing but guys wear it too so you can play with color there and enjoy. I'm in "Celeb City" silver currently! It's uber girly but hey, its no worse then pink.

Thaaats as much as this boyo can think of at this hour.

-Jaden

[Guest Pica Pica]

"I do work in a place that prints custom designs on t-shirts."

Cool, I'd have so much fun with that - would be whole bunches of fun - I want dandelion clothes, lots and lots of dandelions. Love 'em as shapes and colours.

I have started wearing more female tops recently, mainly because fashion has changed to make tops more comfortable for me - less boob hugging - I find people don't particularly notice but it feels good, especially of you start with block colours and let the other stuff bleed in slowly, I recently got an 'alice and wonderland' t-shirt that is very cute. Cardigans are also good fun.

Feet are great, wear girl's colourful socks, people do start noticing that flash of colour - shoelaces are good for that too, I only have female shoelaces in my heavy Doc Martins - I also find that female pyjamas are the only pyjamas that provide comfort.

Oh, and accessorise a bit - I worked at a sweet shop, there were lots of ribbons, I soon found my rucksack and work apron covered in ribbons and bells (still have that apron although I left, was fond of it). Little cute badges on male blazers and jackets and bags are nice little grace notes. Female belts and sashes and scarves and hats and stuff also raise the profile of this a bit more. None of this makes you look androgynous, but it helps you feel that you are asserting yourself as androgyne.

Or just get one of thes

[Guest Light Perpetual]

Cherri, we should go shopping, haha. I'm also trying to find ways to transition to a sort of middle ground, but I'm on the opposite side of the biological spectrum. I can't think of anything to really suggest that hasn't been suggested already...

And Pica Pica, those are awesome.

[Guest Cherri]

Lol, that would be nice.

Yeah, I just get too nervous trying to shop for more femme clothes. I also hate it when I NEED to shop for something (like bras for my forms) and I can't bring myself to do it. I'm such a coward.

I dunno, do you have any advice?

-Cherri

[Guest Light Perpetual]

Hey, relatively similar conversation in two places, now! xD

Can definitely offer a few ideas for bra shopping. I'm not sure how familiar you are with it, so I'll just go through everything I tend to keep in mind. Bra sizes run differently according to brand, so my first suggestion would be to find a brand or two you really like and stick to 'em. That minimizes the amount of guesswork you have to do when it comes to getting new ones. Smaller sizes are much easier to find, in my experience, too--and easier to find less expensively. There are a few different equations for self-measuring what your sizing would be according to a standard (usually set by the site--I don't know why it isn't uniform), and most online stores do have a return policy so you can figure out where you sit without having to deal with the awkward sensation of bemusement.

Also, be careful when you're measuring; I've had a site tell me I was a 30-something A and another tell me I was a 32DDD. Bare Essentials is a good site to start with if you aren't concerned about spending $40 or so. They have a nice selection of brands and styles. Victoria's Secret, as I seem to recall, does too and might even run a little less expensive with the simpler styles.

Also, good rule of thumb: keep a tailor's measuring tape or a soft measuring tape around the computer, especially when you need to do those last minute measurements to double check.