Don't Hate. Appreciate.

[Guest SouthernBelle]

I think I finally got my profile the way I like it. OK... so my About Me portion IS a tad on the preachy side, but I've seen/'heard' some other TS's saying things that seemed... well it just seemed like our community could use a boost in the direction of self-love. LOL I'm sure that all that crap I keep saying about me loving myself and how everyone should show themselves love and respect... and whatever... is pretty preach too, so I guess I'm preach all over. Still, I think it's very important. Especially, since the transsexual community has such a HIGH rate of suicide.

Anyway, I wanna know what y'all think. I'm copying-and-pasting my About Me here, for convenience. I got my fingers crossed that noone argues, saying that transsexuals SHOULDN'T have kids. I am a parent (don't know whether to say mom or dad), myself, after all.

Here it is:

My name is Anabelle (call me Belle).

I am a firm believer in freedom and equality--for ALL. That means whites, blacks, Jews, Muslims, Americans, Venezuelans, the rich, the poor, men, women, cissexuals, AND TRANSSEXUALS (not to mention... all those I haven't mentioned).

What's my point? We can be loved. We can be successful. We can be accepted. We can have kids. We can do anything and everything that anyone else can do. Our brain/body mismatch has nothing to do with our need to be treated fairly. Nor should it bear any mark on our decisions to live our lives as we so desire.

FOR EXAMPLE, it is a FACT that children of transsexuals are no more likely to be transsexuals themselves; nor are they any more likely to be gay or unhappy. The situation IS a bit more complicated if you happen to transition once they've reached adolescence, but the issue exists only because our society has trained them to put so much importance on gender (WHY?!).

The solution begins with us. Our cause is not being heard. I'm not saying that each and every one of us ought to go parading around on Tyra and Oprah. I'm just saying that acceptance begins inside US before it gravitates toward society. Don't give in to the negative prejudice that is held by the majority. We, the minority, are people too. And people deserve to be treated as such.

I may only be a mere transling, but I can finally see the light of day. And while said light may, at times, be blinding, nothing could be greater

KISSES

Belle

[Guest ~Brenda~]

Lovely Topic Belle

What is so interesting about society is that it accelerates. The media now typically portrays us in a postive light with sensitivity. Laws are being passed to protect us. I would not be surprised that within 20 years, society accepts transpeople as equally as anyone else. Being transgendered will no longer be the struggle as it is now.

Love

Brenda

[Guest Donna Jean]

Belle.......

I voted "Before 2030" because if I'm not totally realistic, I am optimistic!~

There have been inroads made the last few years and if they continue, we could conceivably get there by 2030...

Of course I'll be 80 by then....

But, I'll still be a woman with a need for fairness and equality.....

Fingers crossed!

HUGGS!

Donna Jean

[Sally]

Good Morning Bellle,

I voted for before 2030 because of something that my doctor told me, not my Endo who works with the community all of the time but my General Practitioner who accepted me as a patient knowing that I am a transsexual in transition, he admitted that he did not know a lot about the specifics of the transitioning but will help with anything that he can.

After my visit a week ago he said, "I have good news for you, it is 2010 not the fifties anymore -people are more accepting."

I liked hearing that and thought I would share.

Love ya,

Sally

[Guest NatashaJade]

I put before 2030 because according to astrology, we are in the Age of Aquarius which is supposed to signal the rebirth of rational thought

But seriously, I put that because since I went to a trans meeting back in '89, I have seen a major shift in how we are at least thought of, if not treated. Some time in the next 10 years, it will be more common to hear, "I have a trans friend" in the same way people used to speak of lesbians or gays. By 2030, our society will have found some new group to hate and fear, having added us to the "ok now that we know them" list. There will always be those who hate, but there will always be those who hate no matter what.

I happen to think this current generation is far more open minded about things and I look forward to seeing the world when they are in charge.

luv

Gin

[Guest SouthernBelle]

Good Morning Bellle,

I voted for before 2030 because of something that my doctor told me, not my Endo who works with the community all of the time but my General Practitioner who accepted me as a patient knowing that I am a transsexual in transition, he admitted that he did not know a lot about the specifics of the transitioning but will help with anything that he can.

After my visit a week ago he said, "I have good news for you, it is 2010 not the fifties anymore -people are more accepting."

I liked hearing that and thought I would share.

Love ya,

Sally

Well, that's a profound statement... especially from a doctor that doesn't specialize in working with TS's!

[Guest SouthernBelle]

Lovely Topic Belle

What is so interesting about society is that it accelerates. The media now typically portrays us in a postive light with sensitivity. Laws are being passed to protect us. I would not be surprised that within 20 years, society accepts transpeople as equally as anyone else. Being transgendered will no longer be the struggle as it is now.

Love

Brenda

GOOD POINT! Laws ARE being passed!

[Guest SouthernBelle]

Well I must say that I am shocked. Thus far, all of the replies have been on a positive note and the voting is looking MOSTLY positive.

But there's NO WAY that NOBODY on here feels differently...

This is an open invitation. Somebody MUST disagree. I'm sure someone on here has a different point of view and I'm willing to bet they have a good point or two to back it up. SO, who wants to take a stab? I'd love to see here what EVERYONE has to say. (even if it's that you think children ought not be had by Transsexual parents!)

[Guest Evan_J]

Well, personally I think that not ALL transwomen from Texas should be delightful . But you know , thats just me

[Guest]

I voted in the optimistic column too. Having seen the relatively sudden changes happen for gays - it only stands to reason that we'll be accepted as quickly. My state's laws for gay protection now extend to transgender protections as well. In Seattle, it's pretty much acceptance everywhere.

Luckily our lawmakers are more open-minded than many of the more conservative people of the state. This year, I'll be attending the gay pride events in Spokane, which is much more conservative than Seattle. I wonder if that will change my opinion?

Kat

[Guest Pól]

I'll disagree. I have mixed feelings, but I can explain why I can disagree. As we are all probably well-cognizant of, there's a large difference between sexual orientation and gender identity. However, I recognise that as a straight transperson, I have biases.

Asking someone to accept your sexual orientation is asking them to mostly treat you the same as they did before. It's about accepting actions that people do, regardless of whether they have a choice in what kind of actions they take (whether that action is holding hands, kissing, sex, or having a relationship or an attraction isn't really relevant). For the most part, you're not asking someone to change their behaviour (except perhaps to speak more respectfully of GLBs).

Asking someone to accept your gender identity is wholly different because you are asking people to change their language and behaviours around you. You are asking people to use different pronouns, a different name, different acts of inclusion, different gestures even, sometimes. Sexual orientation is about something you do, and who you do it with, but gender identity is about who you are, which is far more fundamental to the soul. You can interact with someone in a context where sexual orientation is not really relevant or visible, but for some transpeople, their gender identity is forced to have some sort of presence in every single interaction that they have.

Gay cispeople have normal bodies. Our bodies can unnerve people. People are squeamish and have a morbid curiousity about things that have to do with sex. Squeamishness leads cispeople to have a negative reaction to things that are not like us. Morbid curiousity leads people to wonder what's in our trousers, and sometimes people think they are entitled to know, all because we're not "normal." That mystery and that discomfort that comes from not being able to easily classify us on sight isn't going to go away just because laws are passed.

The laws that are being passed are to give us protections that we should already have implicitly. While this is fantastic progress and shouldn't be discounted, a change in the laws alone is not enough to guarantee future acceptance. Even before blacks gained civil rights in the US, there were many famous, articulate, accomplished black people. I challenge you to name three famous transpeople, who are where they are by virtue of their own accomplishments, who can be considered positive role models for anyone. We lose many of the transpeople who could best represent our community to the outside cis-community because they are often the people who assimilate back into the cis-world seamlessly, or nearly so. Where our educated, well-respected, articulate transpeople -- the ones who can show the cis-world that we are just like them despite the incongruence between our gender identities and our birth sexes? Without these public figures, transsexuality will continue be associated with freakishness, prostitution, mental illness, etc. and there will be no general public acceptance.

Another reason is simple. There are many more GLBs than transpeople. It is easier to hide sexual orientation than gender identity, so it is often harder for us to get jobs without our employers knowing our trans status. We are a smaller minority, and a greater percentage of us are out of work, homeless, or unable to advocate for the trans-community. Others of us, sometimes those in the best position to do so, choose not to advocate for the trans-community, for whatever reason. As a result, we have many many fewer voices. If you factor in the ambivalence of the GLBs in supporting us, as we have often supported them, it will likely take an exponentially longer time to see progress.

I'll admit that this is not my whole opinion. I dearly hope we will see progress sooner, and small changes are happening. I think though, it is easy to seize these small hints as a greater cause for hope than we perhaps really have. Optimism should not be discarded, but we should not be blind to the immense difficulties standing between us and inclusion.

[Guest AshleyRF]

I honestly don't care to be accepted as a "transsexual" because I NEVER want to be seen as one. I worry that gaining "acceptance" by the masses would only make most of us lazy in our strive to becoming as close as possible to GG's. At that point, we would then be dividing ourselves as something other than normal women and that scares the hell out of me frankly. So, personally, I hope that level of "acceptance" never comes.

[Guest Elizabeth K]

As a transwoman from Texas (born in San Antonio) I am not only delightful, I am spectaculsrly opinionated!

20 years - I will be 82 - I HOPE some acceptance will be in place! I saw the Women's Liberation work out, Civil Rights Movement equalize opportunities (guaranteed by the Federal Government) and the huge inroads of the Gay Pride Movement.

It will be conditional, but acceptance should be at least partially in place in twenty years.

Lizzy

[Guest SouthernBelle]

I'll disagree. I have mixed feelings, but I can explain why I can disagree. As we are all probably well-cognizant of, there's a large difference between sexual orientation and gender identity. However, I recognise that as a straight transperson, I have biases.

Asking someone to accept your sexual orientation is asking them to mostly treat you the same as they did before. It's about accepting actions that people do, regardless of whether they have a choice in what kind of actions they take (whether that action is holding hands, kissing, sex, or having a relationship or an attraction isn't really relevant). For the most part, you're not asking someone to change their behaviour (except perhaps to speak more respectfully of GLBs).

Asking someone to accept your gender identity is wholly different because you are asking people to change their language and behaviours around you. You are asking people to use different pronouns, a different name, different acts of inclusion, different gestures even, sometimes. Sexual orientation is about something you do, and who you do it with, but gender identity is about who you are, which is far more fundamental to the soul. You can interact with someone in a context where sexual orientation is not really relevant or visible, but for some transpeople, their gender identity is forced to have some sort of presence in every single interaction that they have.

Gay cispeople have normal bodies. Our bodies can unnerve people. People are squeamish and have a morbid curiousity about things that have to do with sex. Squeamishness leads cispeople to have a negative reaction to things that are not like us. Morbid curiousity leads people to wonder what's in our trousers, and sometimes people think they are entitled to know, all because we're not "normal." That mystery and that discomfort that comes from not being able to easily classify us on sight isn't going to go away just because laws are passed.

The laws that are being passed are to give us protections that we should already have implicitly. While this is fantastic progress and shouldn't be discounted, a change in the laws alone is not enough to guarantee future acceptance. Even before blacks gained civil rights in the US, there were many famous, articulate, accomplished black people. I challenge you to name three famous transpeople, who are where they are by virtue of their own accomplishments, who can be considered positive role models for anyone. We lose many of the transpeople who could best represent our community to the outside cis-community because they are often the people who assimilate back into the cis-world seamlessly, or nearly so. Where our educated, well-respected, articulate transpeople -- the ones who can show the cis-world that we are just like them despite the incongruence between our gender identities and our birth sexes? Without these public figures, transsexuality will continue be associated with freakishness, prostitution, mental illness, etc. and there will be no general public acceptance.

Another reason is simple. There are many more GLBs than transpeople. It is easier to hide sexual orientation than gender identity, so it is often harder for us to get jobs without our employers knowing our trans status. We are a smaller minority, and a greater percentage of us are out of work, homeless, or unable to advocate for the trans-community. Others of us, sometimes those in the best position to do so, choose not to advocate for the trans-community, for whatever reason. As a result, we have many many fewer voices. If you factor in the ambivalence of the GLBs in supporting us, as we have often supported them, it will likely take an exponentially longer time to see progress.

I'll admit that this is not my whole opinion. I dearly hope we will see progress sooner, and small changes are happening. I think though, it is easy to seize these small hints as a greater cause for hope than we perhaps really have. Optimism should not be discarded, but we should not be blind to the immense difficulties standing between us and inclusion.

Thx for your response. I must say that this is a very well-put post. I didn't expect such a thorough rebuttal, and when I first saw it, I kind of wanted to make it a debate. I've actually spent the last couple day (or however long) trying to figure out exactly what to say, but I keep coming to the same problem: this is not your WHOLE opinion. I would LOVE to know what your whole opinion is on the matter. Please indulge me. In the meantime, I am taking up your challenge (although the fact that I do not know of an openly transsexual celebrity off hand might be indicative of my chances). PLEASE don't forget to come back to this post.

For now I will say, simply, that while all of your points are true, that none of them mean that the future of transsexuals, regarding acceptance, is bleak. The road ahead is a rocky one, indeed, but that only makes it all the more worthwhile.

HUGS AND KISSES

Belle

[Guest SouthernBelle]

I honestly don't care to be accepted as a "transsexual" because I NEVER want to be seen as one. I worry that gaining "acceptance" by the masses would only make most of us lazy in our strive to becoming as close as possible to GG's. At that point, we would then be dividing ourselves as something other than normal women and that scares the hell out of me frankly. So, personally, I hope that level of "acceptance" never comes.

Although I can not relate, I DO understand your desire to be accepted as female, rather than transsexual (I DO want to be accepted as female, but I want to be able to be accepted as transsexual too); however, would you not agree that it would have been nice for you to have not felt such emotional trauma in your life from the fear that is inevitably present whilst considering the reactions that others might have upon hearing that you self-identify as the "other" gender?

And I don't think that acceptance would make, at least, ME lazy in MY strive to become close to appearing female. That might just be me, but I still think that whatever oddities acceptance brings will be a welcome gift.

Thx for your response, by the way. I mean no offense. These are just my opinions.

KISSES

Belle

[Guest AshleyRF]

Although I can not relate, I DO understand your desire to be accepted as female, rather than transsexual (I DO want to be accepted as female, but I want to be able to be accepted as transsexual too); however, would you not agree that it would have been nice for you to have not felt such emotional trauma in your life from the fear that is inevitably present whilst considering the reactions that others might have upon hearing that you self-identify as the "other" gender?

And I don't think that acceptance would make, at least, ME lazy in MY strive to become close to appearing female. That might just be me, but I still think that whatever oddities acceptance brings will be a welcome gift.

Thx for your response, by the way. I mean no offense. These are just my opinions.

KISSES

Belle

No because I should have NEVER been born this way to begin with. I hate my trans past. It is something I am ashamed of, something I despise, and something I want to forget. My goal and purpose behind transition was to become the woman I have always been inside, not to become a transwoman.

[Guest Batsu Maru Otoko Yo!]

I submit the name Mara Keisling as a fairly well-known transwoman (she's the head of NCTE) who is also an amazing role model and a very nice lady. With a potty mouth.

As for famous without being a role model...didn't some famous person's kid turn out to be FtM or something recently? I'm thinking somebody related to Cher, but it's also 1:30 in the morning so I might not be thinking very clearly. I don't recall it being a news item for very long.

[Guest Anna_Banana]

I'd say we'll see acceptance sometime after the year 2030, IF AND ONLY IF the transgender community starts working a little harder on the public front. I know the LGB is, and they'll definitely receive total acceptance long before us. We've got to step it up by far.

>Anna

[Guest SouthernBelle]

No because I should have NEVER been born this way to begin with. I hate my trans past. It is something I am ashamed of, something I despise, and something I want to forget. My goal and purpose behind transition was to become the woman I have always been inside, not to become a transwoman.

Wait. Whoa. It sounds like I DID offend you...

Ashley, I'm so sorry. I understand, REALLY.

I hate my past too. I do. If I could go back in time and somehow change my physical sex while in the womb, I WOULD. I get it if you'd just rather forget. You are entitled to that or anything else, for that matter. Perhaps it would have been best for me to have never assumed that you might want to discuss your post. In any case, I am deeply and sincerely sorry.

Please forgive me.

LOVE

Belle

[Guest andreahilton]

I truly believe it will happen less than 20 years! The people around me have already accepted the homosexual people (both gay and lesbian), crossdressers and metrosexuals. So, I am positive it will happen! Even though right now, the people I know see transsexual people as "the other gender wannabes aka want to crossdress for life." However I just ignore it and tell them "I'm a female, not a male, not a crossdresser, not gay, just a transsexual female that will be a complete female in less than 10 years." I think I'm influencing my family, family's friends, friends of friends to actually think and realize there is transsexual people and it does not mean crossdressing or something like that.

I'm helping out the transsexual people on this planet to be acceptable down here in Australia and understood properly.

[Guest angie]

However I just ignore it and tell them "I'm a female, not a male, not a crossdresser, not gay, just a transsexual female that will be a complete female in less than 10 years." I think I'm influencing my family, family's friends, friends of friends to actually think and realize there is transsexual people and it does not mean crossdressing or something like that.

I'm helping out the transsexual people on this planet to be acceptable down here in Australia and understood properly.

Every person we come into contact with,every time we reach out and expand anothers consiousness,we are gaining acceptance. Yes, the movies,documentaries and tv shows

featuring transexxuals helps the cause,but it is everyday men and women,that are having

the greatest impact.We are showing the world we are everyday folks... just like them.

Angelique

[Guest Donna Jean]

Well, I think that legislating acceptance and in actual practice are two totally different things...

Just like with the blacks and the inroads over the last 45 years, there is still plenty racism to go around....

Same with laws for us....the protections made into law are just to make someone think twice before beating one of us up, but, it won't change their mind about how they feel about us, blacks, gays or any other group....

And while blacks are generally more accepted these days, because people now interact with them more on a daily basis and find out the old sterotypes aren't true and they are just people like everyone else...

I, like everyone else, just want to be accepted as the woman I am and to shed the Trans tag...

I want to re-enter society as me...Donna Jean...the woman...not live out my life as a transwoman....

Donna Jean

[Guest ricka]

I checked the most optimistic box but with reservations: There is a difference between tolerance and acceptance. I think we will experience a general tolerance by 2030 without a doubt. But universal acceptance, probably never. There are Hispanic people living in fear in Arizona right now whose ancestors have lived in the US far longer than my own who are facing interrogation without warning. It was not so long ago that those of us living with HIV were suggested to be rounded up and kept in detention camps. The unbridled hatred out there scares me frankly and none of us are exempt from it.

Ricka

[Guest Melanieshaman]

Well I must say that I am shocked. Thus far, all of the replies have been on a positive note and the voting is looking MOSTLY positive.

But there's NO WAY that NOBODY on here feels differently...

This is an open invitation. Somebody MUST disagree. I'm sure someone on here has a different point of view and I'm willing to bet they have a good point or two to back it up. SO, who wants to take a stab? I'd love to see here what EVERYONE has to say. (even if it's that you think children ought not be had by Transsexual parents!)

I personally think we will never be fully accepted, there's too much noise from the far right/evangelicals that screams we are sinners and freaks, and not the way god made us. I am not trying to pick a fight with anyone, but I truly believe we will never see fair/equal treatment. ever.

Melanie

[Guest AshleyRF]

Wait. Whoa. It sounds like I DID offend you...

Ashley, I'm so sorry. I understand, REALLY.

I hate my past too. I do. If I could go back in time and somehow change my physical sex while in the womb, I WOULD. I get it if you'd just rather forget. You are entitled to that or anything else, for that matter. Perhaps it would have been best for me to have never assumed that you might want to discuss your post. In any case, I am deeply and sincerely sorry.

Please forgive me.

LOVE

Belle

You didn't offend me. I just really really hate being trans. Can anyone name one positive thing about being a transsexual and really mean it? I sure can't. I'm all for those who are proud to be a transsexual, that is of course their choice and I support them on it and wish them the best of luck with their quest for acceptance. However, you will NEVER see me stand next to them as one myself.

Hugs

Ash