Confusion Reigns Today-Yuk

[JJ]

Wish they had gender therapists in this part of the country and wish I could afford one. Then maybe I'd find out why some days I feel whole and one gender and others I feel like I change gender every 15 min-And they aren't getting along!

Went to the store this morning in jeans a t-shirt and a ball cap-not trying to pass-I have a long ponytail out the back of the cap and all but no make-up either. It felt nice but now I feel like fixing my hair, doing my nails and putting on make-up since I got back.. like the feminine part of my nature was REALLY threatened and decided to push. I hate this. I hate being confused and off balance. I made a bargain with myself I'd let things evolve naturally but I had in mind lineal movement, not circular

And as for attraction-I can't decide if what I feel when I look at a good looking guy is attraction or wannabe-it feels like both.

Then too while I was at the store-which was unusually filled with cis guys working and shopping, I felt like they were part of a club I should belong to and am left out. as if they should see me and didn't.

The thing is I know I'm male-feel it to the core so why am I wanting to suddenly do female things again?

Is it because I can seem like I belong to that club? But I never really did. I'm so confused

It's bad enough being trans but trans on a merry-go-round going just a little too fast really sucks!

[Guest Donna Jean]

JJ, Hon.....

This is why a gender therapist is so needed...

I totally understand what you're saying, though......

There are so many places on the gender spectrum and we don't all handle it the same way...

Some of us like me, Sally and Lizzy plan to go all the way...through surgery and full time!

Some are happy to cross dress on the week ends...

There are infinite places to go to on the gender spectrum and we all have different needs...

In your case, you still embrace your female side and at a later time enjoy your male self..

Obviously you seem to need a mesh of both, somehow...I don't know...

But, a good gender therapist can help you work through all of this and help you find where you need to be...

You might take a look in our Gender Therapist section...they even offer "Online Therapists" that are way cheaper and very convenient to use from home...

http://www.lauras-playground.com/links.htm

The only times that I miss ANY male things, is if I'm trying to pick up a 5 gal. pail of water...UGH! It's too heavy anymore....

5 gal.. weighs way more on Estrogen....lol

I'm sorry that you're feeling the way that you are, JJ.......

LOVE

Donna Jean

[JJ]

Thanks Dee Jay-I'll work through it. I think the feeling I most hate to feel, next to fear is confusion. so I neede to vent about it a little.

When things ease up a little and we have a little more coming in I'll look into the online GT. I'll save the link.

It's like the feminine is a part of me-a small but eradicable part. It wasn't there when I was a child but it is now. Maybe I just don't want to give up all that hard won knowledge and skill from trying to be a woman, thinking I was one for so long.

Now that I have written it down and looked at it, it is probably the result of feeling left out and inadequate when I saw those men so unconsciously male and not being one of them. I am skilled at being a woman-not skilled at feeling close, or at social interaction but very skilled at presentation. What I felt like doing was all presentation wasn't it?

The boys and men never let me in their group-so I don't feel very good at being a man in public. Even if no one but me knows I am there as a man. In fact it scares me stiff.

So maybe I've figured at least a part of it out.

Where can I get the book "Trans for Dummies"? Or "Trans in 3 Easy Lessons"?

Somehow I suspect even a gender therapist can't ive me a copy of those

Love

JJ

[Guest Micha]

You had to be a woman for how long? You've conditioned yourself so well, those habits and behaviors will take time to go away. Course, if you don't want them to go away, that's all well and good, you'll still be who you are (ie The Man! Cuz you rock JJ, and you ought to know it). Do what makes you feel good, regardless of how it looks through gender lenses, s'what I try and do.

[Guest Opal]

Hi JJ,

I wonder if there is such a thing as a 'blended gender' ? I really feel that between the two of us, there are four of us, if that makes any sense??!!! Maybe its time for a hand of poker. Well, maybe not, given the cards we were dealt.....

Hugs,

Opal

[Guest ~Brenda~]

OK....

I am slowing the merry-go-round down. JJ hon, what you are experiencing is not uncommon. You know, you see, you reflect, you see more. You are transitioning I would initially recommend to you to seek out a LGBT support group in your area, but I really recommend that you seek out and area where artists congregate. When you are among artists, you are then truely safe to express who you truely are. You are not alone in how you feel and how you identify yourself.

All of this is an evolutionary experience. Each day, each experience is a step in helping you solidify who you are. Like you, I am at the stage of dispensing many myths of who I thought I was. I may be a little farther in this journey since I have successfully dispensed those myths from my family, but those days of doubt are rigth behind me, lurking over my shoulder.

Keep being who you are is the only meaningful thing I can say to you. Just keep being... all things come from just being who you are.

Love you with all my heart

Brenda

[JJ]

Thank you Micha-for what you said about me and for your insight. I really need that right now.

It was from the time I was 11 that I realized I had to be female-12 when my mother started making me walk and talk in a more feminine way. Schools back then didn't allow pants either -so it was 51 years that I tried to be a woman. Plus, I only came out of denial 2 monts ago. So I shouldn't be to surprised if there is a little confusion.

I'm feeling much better now. I 'm bad about wanting things all nailed down and neatly boxed and with this it just isn't going to happen. I really believe it was mostly a reaction to all those cis men and not being one of them

I've loved having you at the party too.

Did you see Sally mentioned a hurricane in paradise?. I wonder if that wily woman is about to really shake things up??

[JJ]

OK....

I am slowing the merry-go-round down. JJ hon, what you are experiencing is not uncommon. You know, you see, you reflect, you see more. You are transitioning I would initially recommend to you to seek out a LGBT support group in your area, but I really recommend that you seek out and area where artists congregate. When you are among artists, you are then truely safe to express who you truely are. You are not alone in how you feel and how you identify yourself.

All of this is an evolutionary experience. Each day, each experience is a step in helping you solidify who you are. Like you, I am at the stage of dispensing many myths of who I thought I was. I may be a little farther in this journey since I have successfully dispensed those myths from my family, but those days of doubt are rigth behind me, lurking over my shoulder.

Keep being who you are is the only meaningful thing I can say to you. Just keep being... all things come from just being who you are.

Love you with all my heart

Brenda

Thank you so much Brenda. I am regaining my balance although I'm sure this is not the last little spin I'll take. My head knows this is part of the process but it does my heart good to hear your reassurance and support.

I love you too

JJ

[Guest Pól]

I'm a little late on this I guess, but in addition to all the other suggestions, you can also talk to some of us who are a little farther along in transitioning. Finding things you have in common (or not) with other transmen may help you figure out your own feelings a little better.

Seriously though, taking the time to properly figure this out is a good thing to do -- to sound trite, your gender identity may be complicated, but it's also sort of important like. If you don't end up at one end of the spectrum or the other, that's just as OK as anywhere else.

[Guest Evan_J]

I feel like Pol, late as well. It sounds like you live somewhere more rural than urban? (the no GT thing) so I dunno how helpful this would be but often lgbt community centers have chat/talk groups. And often that includes ones for trans folk. No, its not official "therapy" but sometimes therapists or other counselors for the lgbt community do attend them. Plus there's the "face to face" component of wrestling through the issue with others who've been where you are. More reason to look for one? Peeps there might know where an official therapist versed in GID is in your area. And they may even be willing to see you on a sliding scale. When I first was looking for a therapist I got nada. I looked all over; followed every web lead; followed the listings in the printed resources, nothing. I went to ONE meeting and suddenly I had two /three names of therapists and several suggestions for doctors.

The other stuff. I think maybe you're demanding a little too much of yourself? It sounds as if you want an "all or nothing" . Either male and masculine or female and feminine. And maybe that just isn't how its gonna play out. Why couldn't you be male in essence but enjoy being feminine? (the "trappings " of femininity). Or male, feminine and bisexual. Male , feminine, and gay. There are a multitude of combinations. I know (and it could be cuz I'm from an earlier time too) that for some of us the prospect of perhaps being a man and being attracted to men is "disturbing" . I have a person who's very close to me that felt like that. Actually , I literally thought he was going to break down and cry at one point at the prospect. There is a LOT of homophobia amongst the trans community. A lot of internalized "-isms". And if you were born/raised and came of age at other times it might be far greater than it is for some of the younger folk. Thats something a lot of us deal with . Me, I deal with a lot of my feelings and phobias and outlooks a LOT of ways. There are some concepts I never even imagined till transitioning. There are some roles/positions I never thought might apply to me. And some that straight up have me flabbergasted that I'm in . (I love going to church.....(I mean that sarcasticly) .....huge lgbt population there and I manage not to fit in anywhere, cuz my "tag" has changed.) So you're gonna have to talk it out. Here, a lgbt group, in therapy, but somewhere if you're ever gonna make sense of it.

[JJ]

Than you Pol and Evan

Coming here and hearing form others who've already been through the stages that I'm going through helps immensely! I know more and more where I stand on the gender scale-it's getting blindsided by unexpected feelings that throws me off balance. Although given how long I was in denial and living as someone I wasn't I'm actually surprised it isn't worse.

My identity as a male isn't new-it's lifelong- but it has been suppressed so long that I'm caught off guard by feelings I'm sure I always had and wouldn't face. It's healthy that they are actually surfacing-just not comfortable. Yesterday's feminine feelings were a reaction to feeling left out of being male with males. And I'm sure THAT"S not a new feeling-just never on a conscious level now.

The whole sexuality thing will have to resolve itself. I don't think I'm homophobic-my "upbringing" which was a benevelent anti everything-we were to treat those lower than us-i.e. any non WASP-kindly but not associate. That included any sexual or gender deviation. I fought them tooth and nail on all of that-I was somehow born knowing that it was completely wrong. Even took beatings for it-literally. Kept saying loudly-everyone was equal and deserved to be accepted and treated that way. Not that there might not be a residue. I'm sure that like you Evan I will continue to have many more surprises.

I've questioned my sexuality so long and it's now so complicated I'm going to let the gender issues resolve more before I tackle that Gordian knot.

I would so love to even talk with another Trans person face-to-face but sadly the closest support group is a 10 hour roundtrip away and we're having some serious financial issues right now that makes the prospect of meeting them months away at best. There are 2 gender therapists in our state but it is a long drive for me -just not feasible right now-I'll go w/ online when I can.

It's much, much better today. In no small part because I can come here and figure out what is really happening-get insights from you that suddenly make an enormous difference. Thank You!!

[Guest BeckyTG]

JJ,

I've got a theory here that may be helpful or may be off base, but you have to think about something, right?

Being socialized as a woman has been work for me. I have to learn a lot about how women interact with each other, what behavior is appropriate where and so on. I have to learn to support each other and work together and not be so competitive. I have to learn how to express my feelings and oh, do I ever have feelings now...

You also need to learn how to be socialized as a man.

The world of men is extremely tough. It's a world of competitiveness in absolutely everything and feelings in absolutely nothing. The way one man pays a compliment to another in a group setting is to make fun of him. That's considered a high compliment. (?)

To just step from a world of feelings, emotions and collaboration to a world of absolute competition with no regard to feelings has to be a real shock, especially if you haven't started hormones yet. The weakest male in any group can really have a hard time of it, until they learn how to work that spot and earn a little respect. All respect has to be earned in the male world and all vulnerabilities must be covered up somehow. That seldom works, but that's the theory...

I would expect that a person who's just exploring a FTM transition could become easily intimidated when exposed to a group of men. I'd consider it very normal to want to immediately withdraw often and go back to your own comfort level of being female, although it's not at all comfortable. No one would choose to spend time locked in a room with a rat unless the only other choice was locked in a room with a bear.

Perhaps the easiest way to begin to feel some measure of comfort as a man would be to find a man friend who was somewhat sympathetic. Regardless of what I may have said about the general world of men, there are many out there who are caring, warm and sympathetic--they just can't show it so much when in a group of other men. It's a strange world indeed.

It's completely normal to want to return to your "comfort level". People do it all the time in all sorts of things. I don't see the real conflict in your thought process. I actually experienced similar thoughts myself in my own transition, particularly when I didn't have a decent wig to wear and no makeup yet. I couldn't appear in public and be accepted as female, so I thought similar thoughts (and some a lot darker).

I think as you begin to be better at presenting an appearance that gets closer and you find some men who accept you, this will all get easier.

I totally agree with Brenda about finding artists to hang with. They accept anything and anybody.

Becky

[JJ]

JJ,

I've got a theory here that may be helpful or may be off base, but you have to think about something, right?

Being socialized as a woman has been work for me. I have to learn a lot about how women interact with each other, what behavior is appropriate where and so on. I have to learn to support each other and work together and not be so competitive. I have to learn how to express my feelings and oh, do I ever have feelings now...

You also need to learn how to be socialized as a man.

The world of men is extremely tough. It's a world of competitiveness in absolutely everything and feelings in absolutely nothing. The way one man pays a compliment to another in a group setting is to make fun of him. That's considered a high compliment. (?)

To just step from a world of feelings, emotions and collaboration to a world of absolute competition with no regard to feelings has to be a real shock, especially if you haven't started hormones yet. The weakest male in any group can really have a hard time of it, until they learn how to work that spot and earn a little respect. All respect has to be earned in the male world and all vulnerabilities must be covered up somehow. That seldom works, but that's the theory...

I would expect that a person who's just exploring a FTM transition could become easily intimidated when exposed to a group of men. I'd consider it very normal to want to immediately withdraw often and go back to your own comfort level of being female, although it's not at all comfortable. No one would choose to spend time locked in a room with a rat unless the only other choice was locked in a room with a bear.

Perhaps the easiest way to begin to feel some measure of comfort as a man would be to find a man friend who was somewhat sympathetic. Regardless of what I may have said about the general world of men, there are many out there who are caring, warm and sympathetic--they just can't show it so much when in a group of other men. It's a strange world indeed.

It's completely normal to want to return to your "comfort level". People do it all the time in all sorts of things. I don't see the real conflict in your thought process. I actually experienced similar thoughts myself in my own transition, particularly when I didn't have a decent wig to wear and no makeup yet. I couldn't appear in public and be accepted as female, so I thought similar thoughts (and some a lot darker).

I think as you begin to be better at presenting an appearance that gets closer and you find some men who accept you, this will all get easier.

I totally agree with Brenda about finding artists to hang with. They accept anything and anybody.

Becky

Sorry-didn't mean to submit w/out a post. it was a fluke w/ a cat on the keyboard-and she's not even a registered member.

Thank you Becky-I agree completely. My whole problem trying to live as a woman was that so much of my approach was masculine. Now I have to sort out those learned female behaviors and relearn the male behaviors I may have missed. But I want to retain those female skills for use when it is appropriate. I like women-like relating to them now that I recognize why I can never really be one of them.

Health and circumstances are likely to keep me non-op and non T so it has to be seen if I can ever be seen as male by other males to the extent that I would want-but I will adjust to that as it develops-it's better than it was when I thought I was a weird woman. I will accept me as I end up-it is just going to be painful sometimes. I believe those strong "left out feelings" I felt yesterday were from many years of surpressing exactly that thought. And as you said the reaction was to be expected too.

I will also begin to seek out artists. They probably have their own community of sorts here-it tends to work that way. I hadn't thought of it till you and Brenda suggested it.

Love

JJ

7/12/10;Evan_J;quote merged with reply.

[Guest Pól]

Coming here and hearing form others who've already been through the stages that I'm going through helps immensely! I know more and more where I stand on the gender scale-it's getting blindsided by unexpected feelings that throws me off balance. Although given how long I was in denial and living as someone I wasn't I'm actually surprised it isn't worse.

I've questioned my sexuality so long and it's now so complicated I'm going to let the gender issues resolve more before I tackle that Gordian knot.

I would so love to even talk with another Trans person face-to-face but sadly the closest support group is a 10 hour roundtrip away and we're having some serious financial issues right now that makes the prospect of meeting them months away at best. There are 2 gender therapists in our state but it is a long drive for me -just not feasible right now-I'll go w/ online when I can.

In order of how you addressed them:

1. As Brenda says in variations often, being trans isn't supposed to be easy. From what I can tell, how you feel right now is pretty typical for people like us. Also, my therapist has been saying for a long time now that suppressing emotions gives them power over you, or something like that. I know what you mean about getting blindsided though -- while I haven't had many problems recently with being surprised with gender-related feelings, I was surprised the other day about how bitter I still am about my family, and I had thought I had let go of all that, more or less.

2. Sounds like a good plan -- especially since you're comparatively less emotionally invested in your sexual orientation at the moment.

3. Skype?

[JJ]

Thank you!

I do Skype-and that is great but I meant full on body language, look them in the eye contact. I wouldn't want anyone on Skype to feel I didn't include them. And till I get this_bleeping-camera to work it's more like voice to face

[Guest Donna Jean]

JJ.....

Hon...I think that being accepted by our target gender is difficult at best....

I feel that women are more readily accepting of us Transwomen then natal men are of Transmen...

Women seem to want to help us and let us join...

Men seem suspicious.

Women want to show us hair, clothes , makeup and womanly skills...

Men don't want to help you learn to fix the car...

I really don't have an answer for this and it's only my opinion...

Maybe more men aren't secure enough in themselves to accept someone physically different...

Anyone else see it this way?

Donna Jean

[Guest ~Brenda~]

JJ.....

Hon...I think that being accepted by our target gender is difficult at best....

I feel that women are more readily accepting of us Transwomen then natal men are of Transmen...

Women seem to want to help us and let us join...

Men seem suspicious.

Women want to show us hair, clothes , makeup and womanly skills...

Men don't want to help you learn to fix the car...

I really don't have an answer for this and it's only my opinion...

Maybe more men aren't secure enough in themselves to accept someone physically different...

Anyone else see it this way?

Donna Jean

You know DJ... you have a really good point

I have been helped by many women , but I will caution all... some of the most vicious antagonists against MTFs are also women.

These women, I think, feel terribly threatened by us. I have has some bad experiences in the past with some women.

Most however are very helpful and are true guides

HUGS

Brenda

[JJ]

JJ.....

Hon...I think that being accepted by our target gender is difficult at best....

I feel that women are more readily accepting of us Transwomen then natal men are of Transmen...

Women seem to want to help us and let us join...

Men seem suspicious.

Women want to show us hair, clothes , makeup and womanly skills...

Men don't want to help you learn to fix the car...

I really don't have an answer for this and it's only my opinion...

Maybe more men aren't secure enough in themselves to accept someone physically different...

Anyone else see it this way?

Donna Jean

Makes evolutionary sense. Men had to prove themselves strong and tough enough to join the hunting pack-the weak or the different got others killed along with themselves. While women needed extra hands, sharing burdens.

But I've seen men accept others-even women- as long as they were tougher, stronger or better at being male in some way. I want to be me-the male I am-not some tougher, stronger version of me. My weapon has always been my mind and if I am accepted as male it will be my male mind and that brings it about not any masculine appearance. There have been instances of female bodied warriors and male bodied nurturers across time and cultures. Our present culture just makes it more difficult for FtMs that way

I think the real feeling of being left out is because I am not and never will be a natal male. Time to get over THAT and just move on. Just like all of us must when it comes to that feeling

[Guest Evan_J]

JJ.....

Hon...I think that being accepted by our target gender is difficult at best....

I feel that women are more readily accepting of us Transwomen then natal men are of Transmen...

Women seem to want to help us and let us join...

Men seem suspicious.

Women want to show us hair, clothes , makeup and womanly skills...

Men don't want to help you learn to fix the car...

I really don't have an answer for this and it's only my opinion...

Maybe more men aren't secure enough in themselves to accept someone physically different...

Anyone else see it this way?

Donna Jean

not @anyone in particular: Men as group en total are more suspicious; partly because of their own "precarious" situation I suspect (and there is an amount of precariousnesss involved if you think about it in terms of each given male when singled out from the group; "manhood" for each being so constantly subject to "scrutiny") and of course partly because of the close fisted grip on what some consider "the best of all possible states of being". However, (as was pointed out) there are males -and even tiny closeknit pocket of males (though this excedingly rare)- who may be able to see past the misconceptions of gender. Do they want to help you "fix a car" (if fixing a car can be a euphamisms representing any action/task labeled as "male")? No. But then the challenge to learn to fix it on your own might be identified as payment (in a social group where self sufficiency exists at a premium) for consideration of any inclusion.

@JJ: I was actually "cheering" when you wrote knowing that whatever kind of man you would be would have to be one based in intellect. A very long time ago (almost two years?) I posed a question about "what kind of male would you be" or something to that affect. In essence, my conclusions were parallel to what you said; whatever kind of male I would be would have to be who I actually was. Not an unrelated archetype. If the sex fairy sprinkled dust on me and said "you can be natal" I wouldn't try to hang out with the thug-beer guzzlers. Thats not who I am. I would be the suit-I have a library -guy . THAT's who I am . Being natal then is irrelevant. Its a question of knowing who you are along with determining who you like for yourself. YOU actually (just by saying what you did) proved that you actually are doing more work transitioning (cuz it ain't all T shots and surgery, that actually is the exterior of it) than a whole lot of people do till way down the road .