Spiro Alone.

[Guest Hydraxide]

I've been browsing Youtube and come across a few people who have (self prescribed and self administered, BAD) spironolactone and nothing else. Most of them have reported 'feminizing' effects and I am curious as to what extent this would happen.

I know that E is required to develop female secondary characteristics, but males produce E at a low level (if i recall correctly) so if you saturate yourself with spiro would this allow the low level of E to 'surface' and cause the effects that they report?

I'm not condoning what they are doing and I think its reckless, but I'm curious from a scientific standpoint as to what could be causing the effects that they report. Also, what are the long term effects of anti-androgens alone on the body? I have read that it is bad for bone density and a few other problems, but spiro is prescribed to men regularly to control hirsutism so it can't be THAT bad, as I see it. Its a poor doctor who would prescribe something to treat a condition only to cause another, more serious, one.

[Guest]

It's an interesting question. I've considered the same, but mostly have wondered about orchiectomy's feminizing affects.

Most of your questions need a professional answer. But here's a few thoughts that came to mind: Prescribing Sprio for prostate conditions may be the lesser of evils - and it may be in a different dosage as well. A male does have natural estrogen, but the power of the placebo may be the real effect. On the other hand, the body can respond to the mind in ways that noone understands.

Hopefully our more learned members can join in with better answers!

Love, Kat

[Guest Evan_J]

Just from casual reading of various mtf members posts, there are folks who's docs have only done spiro and waited before adding anything else to see how that worked out. For some it was enough, some others wanted both.

To Kathleen Rose, the spriro and the orchiectomy would arguably be pretty much "the same thing" in that each is cutting the lions portion of naturally created testostorone. A good question though is does a person need to continue spiro following an orchiectomy.

With FtMs, following a hysterectomy the amount of necessary testosterone to be added in hrt is cut. It isn't necessary in the original amount since, in the absence of the primary production site of estrogen, the ratio of testosterone is changed. I would think thats true to some extent for MtFs who have had an orchiectomy with regard to spiro.

[Guest KimberlyF]

Just from casual reading of various mtf members posts, there are folks who's docs have only done spiro and waited before adding anything else to see how that worked out. For some it was enough, some others wanted both.

To Kathleen Rose, the spriro and the orchiectomy would arguably be pretty much "the same thing" in that each is cutting the lions portion of naturally created testostorone. A good question though is does a person need to continue spiro following an orchiectomy.

With FtMs, following a hysterectomy the amount of necessary testosterone to be added in hrt is cut. It isn't necessary in the original amount since, in the absence of the primary production site of estrogen, the ratio of testosterone is changed. I would think thats true to some extent for MtFs who have had an orchiectomy with regard to spiro.

From what I've read of one vs the other, spiro is more effective than an orchi because it stops all sources of T, but if you have a orchi you may still need spiro but you can greatly reduce your dosage since that is a major producer, which is great for any med.

[Drea]

I seen all sorts of fantastic claims attributed to hormones, spiro, etc.

What one believes can always become reality in their mind. Not sure I could call it placebo effect but certainly a matter of self perception. People have made fortunes selling people stuff that people believed work.

So who knows what is going on. I understand that because it was on the internet the feminizing effects must be true!! But I tend not to conclude too much of claims.

That aside, it is easy to guess that lowered T level likely would have some effect on body hair, posssibly skin texture, lowered libido all of which can reasonably characterized as feminization. Gyncomastia is a listed side effect of Spiro so clearly it can do that.

The mechanism by which it does that? Maybe the lower T level lets the natural level of E have more effect? Just guessing.

The use of Spiro for transgender HRT is far from its original indication so use of Spiro without the use of hormones has probably been more the norm than the exception.

[Guest Donna Jean]

Don't forget, gang.......

Spironolactone is primarily a diuretic that is used to lower blood pressure...

The anti-androgen properties are a side effect of what the medicine was meant for...

Many MTF report that they got "Light headed" when they started on Spiro (I did) ..

That was a result of lowering the blood pressure...

I was taking a drug called Lasix for my blood pressure...it's also a diuretic, so, when I also started Spiro ...I practically lived in the bathroom...

My gender doc took me off of the Lasix...said I didn't need two doing the same thing...

And, yes, males have some Estrogen and females have some T....

Donna Jean

[Guest NatalieRene]

Many MTF report thet they got "Light headed" when they started on Spiro (I did) ..

That was a result of lowering the blood pressure...

I noticed that when I first went on it. I've had a checkup from my doctor once already and my blood pressure was within the normal range but I felt it when I started. I also found that I can't take spiro on a empty stomach or I start to feel sick.

My doctor personally started me on estrogen only and didn't put me on spiro until after reaching the maximum dosage he is comfortable prescribing and my testosterone was still just a little too high. I'm not sure what the benefits would be to start on only spiro first. My doctor and I where trying to see if it would be possible for me to avoid the side effects of spiro by not using it if I didn't personally need to.

Hydraxide, this brings up a good point about why you should go through a doctor. When I say my dosage was increased it was not because visually I didn't see changes. My dosage was changed at my doctors discretion based on blood work conducted from the blood sample taken during my check up over the next day or so. For the first 4 months I was checked up every month and now I am checked on quarterly currently because my dosage hasn't changed. I'm expecting that after this coming checkup on Monday or in the next checkup if everything is fine I might be moved to semi-annually. It's something I myself would be unable to do on my own. If you have a letter from your therapist stating that you are ready for hrt I would suggest going to your doctor and getting started. Your doctor will know just what to do.

[Guest Elizabeth K]

Why worry? - get diagnosed through a therapist and if you decide to transition, get placed under the care of a physician!

All speculation is pointless and we are not here at Laura's to discuss dosages - which I feel extends into not discussing in detail drugs to use. A prescribing physician will prescribe what you need and monitor your results, using check-ups and blood tests.

Spiro is one option - there are other drugs which block male hormone production, so a female regimen can be successful. Everyone reacts slightly differently, let the doctor find out what is right for you. End of story.

Most of what is on the internet is speculation and hearsay.

Lizzy

[Guest KimberlyF]

Some people are more sensitive to sex hormones than other people. When a gender male on prostate meds starts growing boobs, it's not cause it's a placebo or dream come true. It gets put in the side effect column. And these people are usually only blocking one form of T.

Many women react to the trace amounts of testosterone in their bodies and get cyclical hormonal acne. The vast majority don't. The ones that do can take a t-blocker like spiro to treat it. When they do blood tests these women usually have normal T&E levels. They just react stronger to the T when their E level drops on their cycle.

If you blocked all the T in your body the E would take over. How quickly and to what degree depends on the persons DNA. I'd guess the people on YouTube are doing just about everything to lower their T and raise their E other than getting prescriptions and bloodwork from their doc. I've heard of Spiro and a bunch of supliments working OK but really who knows what all that stuff is doing to your insides? It sure wasn't made for the doses you need to transition.

Kim

[Guest moonrise]

I've been browsing Youtube and come across a few people who have (self prescribed and self administered, BAD) spironolactone and nothing else. Most of them have reported 'feminizing' effects and I am curious as to what extent this would happen.

I know that E is required to develop female secondary characteristics, but males produce E at a low level (if i recall correctly) so if you saturate yourself with spiro would this allow the low level of E to 'surface' and cause the effects that they report?

I'm not condoning what they are doing and I think its reckless, but I'm curious from a scientific standpoint as to what could be causing the effects that they report. Also, what are the long term effects of anti-androgens alone on the body? I have read that it is bad for bone density and a few other problems, but spiro is prescribed to men regularly to control hirsutism so it can't be THAT bad, as I see it. Its a poor doctor who would prescribe something to treat a condition only to cause another, more serious, one.

Hydraxide,

I will try and answer only your question :-) I have been doing what you are talking about for the last 6 months, anti-androgen only. Yes you should go through a doctor, I did. I used my dermatologist and had all the necessary blood tests. On with your answer: Yes, there are feminizing effects. Not a lot and not fast. But taking the edge off male sex drive was a wonderful side effect. You are correct in long term bone density concerns. The feminizing effects come from the already present Estrogen, so YMMV.

Hope that helps,

Rylee