Mental Androgyny

[Guest Silver Dreams]

So I'm new here... so I'll start with saying hi everyone!

I guess this is something that I find hard to deal with is this notion of androgyny being a physical thing.

I am not physically androgynous. It is hard for me to look androgynous. I am a female. My body is female and I am quite content with it. If there were some way to be physically female and male then I would but I don't think that there is, or that it would be cheap and accessible. Besides my body is nice, I like it.

The only problem is that it is a very feminine body and so people just assume that I am a girl. I'm not a girl. I'm not a boy. I'm something that is both those genders and neither of those genders: a mental androgyne.

I like wearing clothes that fit, I enjoy skirts. I love long hair. If I were in a male body I would still grow out my hair and wear skirts on occasion. It really depends on my mood. Some days I can't stand skirts or dresses other days I love them.

Makeup is just awkward to me and I hate purses. I only use these things when I go in drag because to me being a girl is drag. I try to do drag as a boy as well but so far, it's been really hard to hide my curves and breasts (they are pretty obvious).

I'm just me. A female body and a androgynous mind. I'm very much okay with this. It's just other people don't get it. I don't have a lot of people that get me. It's hard to meet new people and especially to date because they see me and expect girl and when I do something outside of 'girl' then they get offended, confused or awkward. Even when I'm interested in a girl, she usually expects a different gender role based on my sexuality (which is always confused as well ).

I guess I'm wondering, anyone else have this sort of body/mind discrepancy and how do you all deal with the whole dating scene? Advice much appreciated!

[Sally]

Hello Silver Dreams,

Welcome to the Forums, about the best place you could come.

I am sure that there are others here that feel just as you do and they will drop by to say hello, as for me I just want you to feel welcome and know that we do not assign any preconceived notion or expectations of gender roles here - you are free to be you.

Do check out the terms and conditions and remember to keep the site PG-13, that is about it as far as important rules go.

Would you like to have some cookies and hot cocoa - I just baked a fresh batch and Donna jean makes sure that there is plenty of hot cocoa.

Welcome to your new family.

Love ya,

Sally

[Guest Donna Jean]

.

Hello Silver Dreams

Welcome to the Playground

I'm Donna Jean....

Well, it's wonderfulk that you've joined and I think that you'll find out pretty quickly that we try to let everyone find their own spot on the gender spectrum....you just do what wver is comfy for you...that's it!

I hope that you enjoy yourself here...

It's nice to have you

Huggs

Donna Jean

[Guest Elizabeth K]

WELCOME!

I really like your analysis! So many are just like that.

Lizzy

oh oh oh - the dating scene? Well I am older, but I would say - pansexual orientation - find someone to love - without real regard to gender - explain how you feel about yourself - see if they are of a mind to also not worry about gender.

[Guest Micha]

So I'm new here... so I'll start with saying hi everyone!

I guess this is something that I find hard to deal with is this notion of androgyny being a physical thing.

I am not physically androgynous. It is hard for me to look androgynous. I am a female. My body is female and I am quite content with it. If there were some way to be physically female and male then I would but I don't think that there is, or that it would be cheap and accessible. Besides my body is nice, I like it.

The only problem is that it is a very feminine body and so people just assume that I am a girl. I'm not a girl. I'm not a boy. I'm something that is both those genders and neither of those genders: a mental androgyne.

I like wearing clothes that fit, I enjoy skirts. I love long hair. If I were in a male body I would still grow out my hair and wear skirts on occasion. It really depends on my mood. Some days I can't stand skirts or dresses other days I love them.

Makeup is just awkward to me and I hate purses. I only use these things when I go in drag because to me being a girl is drag. I try to do drag as a boy as well but so far, it's been really hard to hide my curves and breasts (they are pretty obvious).

I'm just me. A female body and a androgynous mind. I'm very much okay with this. It's just other people don't get it. I don't have a lot of people that get me. It's hard to meet new people and especially to date because they see me and expect girl and when I do something outside of 'girl' then they get offended, confused or awkward. Even when I'm interested in a girl, she usually expects a different gender role based on my sexuality (which is always confused as well ).

I guess I'm wondering, anyone else have this sort of body/mind discrepancy and how do you all deal with the whole dating scene? Advice much appreciated!

Definitely in the same boat, with a few differences. Physically it's highly unlikely I'll ever look androgynous, though I'd prefer to. My gender isn't reflected physically, it's a state of mind.

Dating however, can't help with. Got married before I realized my self. I missed out on a lot of dating, and I kind of regret it. There was so much affection, I missed out on it, I missed out on experiencing it as me, not as I thought I was supposed to be.

Only advice. . .

“Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.”

Dr. Seuss

[Guest Silver Dreams]

Oh thanks for all the welcomes everyone And for the replies. I guess it helps just knowing you aren't the only one that feels this way, you know?

[Guest stranger]

Yep, genitalia does not equal gender does not equal sexual orientation.

It's just that for the majority of people, they conveniently match.

Not so for people who come to places like this.

[Guest Miss_Construe]

I would really like advice as well.

In my current exploration I am gravitating towards an androgynous expression in appearance. I have always held a more feminine mindset than a typical male, especially a male of my appearance. People have always commented about how my dress has been fairly andro, but I am 6'4" and was a (American) Football linemen player in high school. Basically I'm built like Wolverine, and I don't really mind. The only thing I would like to avoid is being a body builder, I want functional muscle and good flexibility (body builders can be flexible and are very strong, but not the path I wish to take. I still love you internet).

I really don't know where I'm headed. I need to have some time alone, without anyone who 'sees who I really am' and tries to impose there ridiculous will on me. I just wish people would treat me with some consideration given to my individuality.

Question to forum moderator: Can we ascii swear (i.e. %!~+!#)?

Love you all,

Amy

[Guest Jo-I-Dunno]

In more ways than not, all forms of androgyny are difficult express to other people. Even if you dress like and/or have an androgynous body, people will still ask you if you're a boy or girl 'cause most people see those as the only two options. So when you feel androgynous but don't particularly look androgynous or want to, it's near impossible to get the message across short of a verbal explanation.

If you don't want to look or act different, I don't think there's anything you can do but come to terms with the fact that people will always see you one way. In terms of dating, I can't help. Never been interested in anybody that way.

[Guest mad_scientist]

Hi silver! Everything you said could easily apply to me (except the skirts, which I dislike). I do have a (slightly irritating) advantage in being percieved as genderless; not even my Gender Binary Armour E Cup and Super Feminine Hip Combo can withstand the crazy stereotypes that rise to the forefront of people's brains every time I come out as asexual (sure, it's true, but it isn't related to my sexuality...)

I think a lot of androgynous, neutrois or agendered people go for (and thus express an interest in) physical androgyny in an attempt to approximate a social role in which we feel comfortable. Futile? Probably, but we have to try. With a different body shape I'd be doing it. It might cut down on the female assumptions you mentioned, at least. But those of us who stick with looking/presenting as female or male out of social convention, ease, or whatever reason an individual has don't invalidate our real gender by doing so.

Yay for psychological androgynes! Woo!

[Guest Chrysee]

When I came out (to myself) I knew that I was this tranwhatchamacallit, and I envisioned myself looking totally female. And I was at first prepared to do what that might require. Then I read about MTFs going 'full time' and it instantly hit me. I would have to give up something (and I don't necessarily mean something physical) that would make me less me. The long and the short of it is, I realized that I was androgynous. (Actually it was my daughter that pointed it out.)

Now I had already shaved off my beard ands dyed my hair, but I suddenly grew back a brief mustache and goatee.

Well, the next time a casual friend 'in the know' saw me, he as taken back. He thought I had abandoned transitioning all together. I explained androgyny and that I wished to portray both genders in my appearance. He immediately (and rather smugly) informed me that to do so, you would have to look like David Bowie.

And only if you resembled him could you do it.

Just a sample of what's out there waiting to pass judgement.

[Guest Micha]

When I came out (to myself) I knew that I was this tranwhatchamacallit, and I envisioned myself looking totally female.

Same for me. I re envisioned my life as it should have been. My outward appearance being mostly feminine, while being more androgynous in my consciousness. I still daydream about how I'd like to look. . . *sigh*

[Guest symempathy]

For me, I don't even know of the term androgyne. If I didn't go into this forum, I wouldn't know what makes someone an androgyne. In fact, even though I kind of understand the meaning of the term, I still feel I don't meet the definition of it. Surely my personality is a mixture of both femininity and masculinity (a stronger feminine side), I don't randomly or consciously shift to either side, nor do I decide one day I want to be a man and another day be a woman.

I don't know in the future if my feminine side can take over my masculine side and make me wish to become a woman. For now I feel okay with myself, but I won't mind my body changing. Even if it was a female body, my mind won't change. I don't think there would be another battle between the masculine and feminine in me regardless of the anatomical sex of my body.

[Guest Micha]

In fact, even though I kind of understand the meaning of the term, I still feel I don't meet the definition of it. Surely my personality is a mixture of both femininity and masculinity (a stronger feminine side), I don't randomly or consciously shift to either side, nor do I decide one day I want to be a man and another day be a woman.

This is what gender fluid sounds like to me, being able to float around the gender universe. I always understood androgyny to be adaptable, being able to utilize traits or attributes associated to either masculine or feminine. It never seemed like a permanent state to me, nor did it seem to be a changing personality. Just a balance between the two.

[Guest symempathy]

This is what gender fluid sounds like to me, being able to float around the gender universe. I always understood androgyny to be adaptable, being able to utilize traits or attributes associated to either masculine or feminine. It never seemed like a permanent state to me, nor did it seem to be a changing personality. Just a balance between the two.

Hello Micha,

Nice to see you again.

Honestly, I feel like each person has a premixed trait of masculinity and femininity, and it makes that person unique. That's how I understand about myself, well, not all about myself though. I still have to explore me. I have seen some men who are very nice, friendly, soft like a woman. On the other hand, their gestures are definitely male oriented, no flamboyant or mannerism. I think we cannot control our behaviors. The thing is how we are comfortable with ourselves.

I just don't understand people who call themselves genderqueer. It's difficult for me to imagine a person who wants to be a man one day and a woman next day, given that he/she is aware of the difference. I guess people have both masculine and feminine traits in them, and their gender expression shows depending on which trait is stronger or equally mixed. Nevertheless, I don't know how people can shift their personality at their will. I used to try to be manly in the past, and I made a fool of myself. Then I tried being totally feminine by wearing my mom's clothes and her hair pins. I felt a little strange although it was not a bad feeling like when I tried to be masculine.

I finally realize that my feminine trait shows in my communication with other people and my gestures, but it doesn't show when it comes to fashion. Similarly, when I exercise in a big group, I tend to be more masculine: I'm not afraid of being in the first row; I push myself hard. Femininity rarely shows at that moment. Certainly I cannot control those behaviors. They just happen.

[Guest Micha]

I wouldn't know about being gender fluid really, I'm fairly stationary in where I stand with gender. So, I don't wanna make any assumptions or try and talk about something when I've no idea what I'm talkin about.

[Guest Chrysee]

I sense a trend: unless I'm way off, it seems that those of us who are now androgynes but started out in life living in a 'masculine' body definitely favor the feminine. I came out, joined this site, and believed that I was an MTF. In time, I found that there was much of my masculine side that I wished to retain and would seriously miss should I shed it. However, I am happiest when i'm wearing makeup and dressed like a woman. In fact, if I email my girlfriend at work and complain of having a bad day, she inevitably suggests that I go and put on my favorite skirt (which sadly belongs to her.)

And it always works!

As a matter of fact, I just had my picture taken wearing said skirt last Saturday, and would love to post it in the gallery (along with several others) but haven't managed to get the hang of how to do that as yet.

Just like I can't get my Avatar to appear on either my Profile page or the profile pages of friends I leave messages for.

I'm rather a failed Geek.

Thanks for reading.

Chrysalis

[Guest Micha]

I sense a trend: unless I'm way off, it seems that those of us who are now androgynes but started out in life living in a 'masculine' body definitely favor the feminine. I came out, joined this site, and believed that I was an MTF. In time, I found that there was much of my masculine side that I wished to retain and would seriously miss should I shed it. However, I am happiest when i'm wearing makeup and dressed like a woman. In fact, if I email my girlfriend at work and complain of having a bad day, she inevitably suggests that I go and put on my favorite skirt (which sadly belongs to her.)

And it always works!

As a matter of fact, I just had my picture taken wearing said skirt last Saturday, and would love to post it in the gallery (along with several others) but haven't managed to get the hang of how to do that as yet.

Just like I can't get my Avatar to appear on either my Profile page or the profile pages of friends I leave messages for.

I'm rather a failed Geek.

Thanks for reading.

Chrysalis

Would love to see that pic.

I definitely favor the feminine. Always been effected and attracted to it, and related best to feminine aspects or people. I'm not really sure what parts of me are masculine that I would miss, but then again, I'm at a point where I'm having a hard time finding any qualities in me that are good, let alone whether they're masculine or feminine.

I do know how I'd like to be though, and I may be able to classify the qualities I want as either masculine or feminine. Might actually be a healthy exercise for me to do.

[Guest symempathy]

Would love to see that pic.

I definitely favor the feminine. Always been effected and attracted to it, and related best to feminine aspects or people. I'm not really sure what parts of me are masculine that I would miss, but then again, I'm at a point where I'm having a hard time finding any qualities in me that are good, let alone whether they're masculine or feminine.

I do know how I'd like to be though, and I may be able to classify the qualities I want as either masculine or feminine. Might actually be a healthy exercise for me to do.

Is it possible that androgyny is innate in all of us, but the problem is we follow society expectation how we should behave corresponding to our sex?

[Guest Gabi-lotr]

Hi folks im new here.

I dunno i in the right place to ask but i here to ask so i ask.

I am a boy with androgynous mind/spirit.It's bad for me because lately i tryed suicide and i crying etc. So i feel bad because everyone just see a boy and not a girl. I want to show the ppls of the world i not just a boy but a girl too.

So any tips for me to look androgynous?

I short, (woot!) a bit masculine but just a bit and i was cut my hair recently awww.

[Guest sarah f]

Hi folks im new here.

I dunno i in the right place to ask but i here to ask so i ask.

I am a boy with androgynous mind/spirit.It's bad for me because lately i tryed suicide and i crying etc. So i feel bad because everyone just see a boy and not a girl. I want to show the ppls of the world i not just a boy but a girl too.

So any tips for me to look androgynous?

I short, (woot!) a bit masculine but just a bit and i was cut my hair recently awww.

How about an introduction post which can be done in the introduction forum. That way everyone can greet you properly and try to help out with your question. I look forward to seeing your intro post.

[Guest Gabi-lotr]

Done and done! Just check!

[Guest Gabi-lotr]

Done and done! Just check!

With polls so you can search with no awail in the introduction. Go to the polls section.

[Guest Micha]

Is it possible that androgyny is innate in all of us, but the problem is we follow society expectation how we should behave corresponding to our sex?

I'm one to believe this to some extent. I'm sure that hormones and DNA do effect our behavior, but I don't believe it's to the extent that all women behave one way and all men another. I believe the larger influence on gender roles is society. Everything from the clothes we're bought as children, the toys we're given, the games we're taught, to what's on tv and in the movies to how we're treated and how people interact with us.

[Guest symempathy]

I'm one to believe this to some extent. I'm sure that hormones and DNA do effect our behavior, but I don't believe it's to the extent that all women behave one way and all men another. I believe the larger influence on gender roles is society. Everything from the clothes we're bought as children, the toys we're given, the games we're taught, to what's on tv and in the movies to how we're treated and how people interact with us.

You couldn't be more right, Micha. I'm happy with my male body because that is how my XY chromosome makes it. It is biology; I can't change it. I am just not happy with my genital. This is what I can change. Inside my mind, I don't feel either man or woman. I only feel masculine and feminine.

It took some time for me to be able to accept that. I don't blame cisgender people for not being able to accept me. Even transsexual ones may find this hard to accept.