A Home For Someone With Gynecomastia?

[Guest Downey]

Hello to you all! If I can beg your indulgence for a lengthy introduction, I'd like to tell you why I'm here and ask your recommendation on an appropriate forum or forums.

I got here accidentally when I googled recently for equivalent men's and women's clothing sizes and your size chart came up near the top of the results. I looked around and decided to join yesterday because of your site's rules and policies and the fact that you seem to treat these serious subjects seriously. To my dismay, I don't immediately see a forum that deals directly with my subject, which I will get to in a moment. I do see some other forums of interest. I have spot checked those to get a sense for the level of discourse, and I am pleased so far. I have made several attempts in the past year to find a serious support forum for adult-onset gynecomastia and have been disappointed, as I will describe below.

As I have learned more about your site, I find that I may actually have a dual interest here. Accordingly, please allow me to present myself in two parts. The first concerns a medical condition that I never expected to encounter in my life and that I still don't know how serious it is (why I really need a support group). The second concerns an outpouring of feelings and emotions that have flowed from it, that I believe your site more directly speaks to.

First, let me get the preliminaries out of the way. I am 62 years old heterosexual male, a male in a male's body. My fundamental sexual identity is not in question, though I will probably have a lot more to say about that as you get to know me. I have been through a lot of stress in recent years, most of it career and financial related. My wonderful 30-year marriage ended in divorce early last year because of those problems. I have lost track of my ex and my two grown daughters, none of whom are speaking to me. It has not been a happy time, and no doubt has contributed to the health issue that I will describe here. I am pleased to have enjoyed mostly excellent health all my life, and I remain in generally good health. But I'm getting older and stress does terrible things to the body. I'm sure it's no coincidence that this problem showed up only a few months after the divorce.

So now let me get on to my interests here.

PART 1.

About 17 months ago, I got out of the shower one evening and noticed that I suddenly had small breasts. I had a previously-scheduled appointment coming up with my doctor, so I mentioned it to him. He diagnosed Gynecomastia and ordered hormone tests. The results showed low testosterone but normal estradiol levels. He offered me a testosterone gel, but I wanted to wait awhile and repeat the tests on the possibility that it was a temporary condition. He agreed. Over the ensuing weeks, I discovered to my shock that my breasts were actually still growing. On the subsequent visit, my doctor referred me to an endocrinologist who did further tests. About the only useful thing to come out of those tests was to rule out Cushing's Disease. By now, my breasts had been growing for several months.

At that point, without further ado, the endocrinologist put me on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) with a product called Testim gel, which I was told would, among other things, stop the breast growth. It didn't. In fact, the growth rate seemed to accelerate. He upped the dosage. The growth accelerated again. He wanted to up the dosage again, but I declined. My testosterone level was now back up well into the normal range, the estradiol still normal. Explain to me, please: If the breast growth is caused by low testosterone and we put plenty of testosterone back, why are the breasts still growing? He had no answer. In fact, the endocrinologist denied it was happening. I fired him and went back to my regular doctor, a very good one who I have been seeing for many years.

Endocrinologist joke: How many endocrinologists does it take to change a light bulb? Answer: None. According to the lab tests the light bulb is on.

My regular doctor now found my testosterone level to be above the top of the normal range for a man my age. He stabilized the Testim at the originally-prescribed level. I have now been on the TRT for over a year. My numbers are normal but my breasts have kept growing. Unfortunately, as my doctor points out, an ironic side effect of TRT is that it can itself cause breast growth. So I get breast growth both with and without TRT. What am I to do?

I went back to my doctor early this year for a complete physical and there is no other obvious explanation. That is evidently the case with the adult version of gynecomastia. In a very large proportion of cases, an underlying cause is never found. There are also two varieties of adult gynecomastia: a Pseudo-Gynecomastia which is mostly fatty tissue and is prevalent especially in obese men; and true Gynecomastia in which there also develops a lot of breast tissue. A surprising number of older men, it turns out, have one form or the other. Look around you. In the "true" form, the "sufferer" develops essentially normal female breasts, complete with breast tissue, glands, ducts, and everything. In other words, they are normal breasts; they just happen to be on a person of the wrong gender. My case seems to be of that variety. Because of other hormonal differences between men and women, even with a case of "true" Gynecomastia, a man is never going to develop breasts as large as a woman can get. Still, I am now probably somewhere between an A and B cup, and still growing.

Over the course of the past 17 months, I have repeatedly turned to the Internet for help, support, and explanations. There is a lot of information out there, but most of it (including Wikipedia, sadly) is clinical and confusing and of such a general nature as to not be helpful in a specific case. Also, googling for information on gyne always results in a flood of advertisements from plastic surgeons eager to cut your breasts off (for a big fee, natch). This does nothing but make you feel worse about yourself. I had high hopes when I found a site called gynecomastia.org, which had support forums. To my disappointment, I quickly learned that, despite the dot-org billing and despite having some good, readable factual information, the site is actually run by a group of plastic surgeons who use it as a means of solicitation. They (or someone doing marketing on their behalf) will actually even approach people publicly in the forums and suggest services. This really turned me off. When I posted a complaint that the site should change itself to a dot-com or halt the selling, my post was promptly removed (within minutes). I immediately quit the site and haven't been back. Other forums I've run across are geared more to young males with the juvenile form of the disease associated with puberty. Those are also frequented by people that I believe you folks call Admirers and others who have not very nice things to say about men with breasts.

Okay, so I've got this condition called Gynecomastia which, by now, has got me looking pretty female on top. As a longtime connoisseur of women's breasts, I will confide that I'm developing very nicely, thank you (see Part 2, below). I think -- in fact, I know -- that, despite all the shrillness of the plastic surgeons, there are a large number of men out there with Gyne who have come to cherish their breasts, even celebrate them. Count me as one who cherishes. As still a closet case, I am not yet up to celebrate. But I'm moving in that direction. As my growth has reached the point where I can no longer hide it, I'm likely about to be forced out of the closet soon, whether I want to be or not.

When I stumbled across Laura's the other day, my disappointment to-date over not being able to find a serious support forum for older men in this situation caused me to pause and look around. What I need is a forum for adult men with gyne who prefer to live with their breasts rather than having surgery to reduce or remove them. Men learning to live with their breasts, perhaps even loving them, and, of course, explaining them to others as necessary. Beyond that are medical questions, breast cancer screening questions, questions about prognosis, typical outcomes, timeframes, possible treatments, etc. These, and the chance to learn how other men with this condition are coping with it, are all things I am eager to see addressed in a serious way in a support forum.

Is there an appropriate venue at Laura's for this subject? My gender identity and sexual preferences are not in question. I am not an intersex, as I was not born with this. I don't think I'm an androgynous person, but maybe I'm wrong. I'm not a cross-dresser either (yet). Well, okay, I wear bras now. Have for a year. There, I said it. I have no interest in compression bras or bindings of any kind. If I'm going to have breasts, I want them to develop as naturally as possible. But as a man with a medical condition, it is not chiefly the cross-dressing issue that I'm eager to get to. It is general support for the condition...how to deal with it, what to expect. What do you think? If this subject is too far off the mark for Laura's, does anyone know of a support forum for this condition with the standards and calibre of discourse that Laura's promotes?

PART 2.

The first part of this treatise was fairly clinical. But there is an emotional side to it too. As an older man, you don't suddenly go through an unexpected female puberty without some emotional consequences. I told my brothers about my condition (I'm the eldest, and I thought they should know about my low-T; I have no sisters). I told them I was a 62-year-old man with the hormones of a 14-year-old.... Girl.

Though I have no doubt about my male identity, I have also never been a typical "guy." Fact is, I'm guessing that my testosterone level has probably been marginal for most of my life. I never liked sports, hated P-E in school, and I abhor aggressive, competitive, raucous males. As a kid on the playground, I was pretty much a loner, but the best friends I remember from that time were girls who didn't like jump-rope as much as I didn't like baseball.

There is a strong feminine component to my existence that I have often fantasized about but never really allowed myself to explore. One of those fantasies was of having breasts. Imagine my surprise when, now in my early sixties, they started to develop. How many times in the past 18 months I have thought to myself, "be careful what you wish for..." To a considerable extent, therefore, while the male side of me is terrified, the female side is living a fantasy. The male side is looking for a medical cause and feels obligated to make it stop. The female side is not-so-secretly rooting for them to grow and grow faster.

So it will not surprise you that about the first thing I did last year when my little manboobs first appeared was go out and buy a bra to put on them. It didn't come close to fitting then (it does now), but something even then told me that I had just gotten on a slippery slope. As my breasts have grown, and especially in recent months as they are reaching a size that I can no longer hide them, my feminine side has started screaming more and more loudly to be reexamined. All my life, like most people I suppose, I have had certain thoughs and fantasies about being (or pretending to be) the opposite sex. Now that I've got breasts, all those thoughts are flooding back into my mind with new perspective.

Those of you who have gone through transition have my admiration. I have read about it many times while also knowing that it was something I could never do myself; and when it came down to it, would probably never want to. Still, my inner femme is calling to me in ways she never has before and, god knows, she's got my attention. Don't be surprised if you run across me in some of the other forums here.

Those of you who watch House on Fox may recall an episode at the end of the season before last that first aired on May 9, 2009, less than a month after I first noticed my new breasts. In that episode, one of the characters, “Amber Volakis” (played by Anne Dudek), in a return engagement to the show, appeared in an hallucination by House and sang a little ditty that spoke to me. I've thought of it many times since, and now that inner femme of mine is singing it to me regularly:

“Enjoy yourself /

It’s later than you think;

Enjoy yourself /

While you’re still in the pink;

The years go by /

As quickly as a wink;

Enjoy yourself, enjoy yourself /

It’s later than you think.”

Thank you all for listening. I'll see you around the forums, I'm sure. Thank you for being here.

[Guest Donna Jean]

.

Hello, Downey....

Welcome to the Playground

I'm Donna Jean

I'm a 60 year old male to female transsexual and living full time...

Now, as far as a forum addressing adult-onset gynecomastia...we don't have anything specifically for that, but if you post about it, I'm sure that you'll get some replies...

And we have plenty to offer such as support for gender dysphoria...

So, come in and have a seat and I'll get you some cookies and a hot cup of coco ...

Then you may just sit and relax...ok?

Now, I'd like to ask you to be sure to have a look at the forum rules...there's a link at the top of most pages...It says “Terms & Conditions..

And, we moderate this site to keep it safe for everyone..

It's nice to have you, Hon....

Please post and join on in...ok?

Huggs

Donna Jean

[Guest Opal]

Hi Downey,

Welcome to Laura's! As far as I know we do not have anyone actively posting here with what you describe, yet there may be some inactive members who might see this and respond, or someone who has been reluctant to come forward.

Have you considered visiting a Gender Therapist? They could be really helpful in sorting out your feelings on this.

I have either AAs or small As from being overweight. Have managed to take most of the weight off, but they are still there.

Hope you do not mind the hugs we offer. We mean it in a supportive sense only, not trying to make anyone feel uncomfortable.

Hugs,

Opal

[Guest Downey]

Not at all, Opal, hugs are always appreciated. Thanks.

[Guest Opal]

I am relived to hear that! I frequently wear heavy hooded sweatshirts in male mode that helps to give me a gender neutral look.

Hugs,

Opal

[Guest ricka]

Hi Sugar! I am an MtF transsexual woman and I also have gynecomastia,

although the onset for me was during puberty. Having fully developed female breasts has been a total blessing and I can honestly say are my pride and joy and are hugely important to my identity as a woman. I adore being a buxom woman--I easily fill a c-cup. The term "gynecomastia" is actually rather annoying in that implies some sort of disease or pathological condition which if that were true then all ciswomen would be labeled as having this condition. I have wondered if the distress having female breasts causes some men is relative to whether or not they experience their breasts as erogenous or not. (Mine are in the extreme!) Mammary glands themselves produce estrogen and will often convert testosterone to estrogen according to my reading. Which means for a transfemale like me my body produces its own hormone replacement therapy.

Miss Ricka

[Guest Mia J]

Hello Downey,

Welcome to Laura’s. I am sorry the endo was of no help. I have known some that are great with things like diabetes and sexual hormones so they are not all that way. I had a not so good experience with one around twenty years ago when I was trying my first attempt at transition. I got a consultation with one in my health care plan and tried to discuss if they would cover or do HRT for transsexuals as my therapist was ready for me to start. It seemed to take him some time to even understand what I was talking about and when he did, he basically called me a sick freak and told me to leave. I did eventually find one who was gender savvy.

I hope you can find what you need here as we have a very diverse group.

Mia

[Guest miss kindheart]

Hi Downey,

<<< hug >>>

Welcome to Laura's Playground.

Please feel free to come over and chat sometime.

The Chat room does require another registration that is separate from from your forums one.

Please read the chat room rules before coming in, and expect a short interview with one of the chat room moderators.

One of the things that they will ask you is if you read the rules.

We all look forward to seeing you.

vanna

[Guest Downey]

Hi, Miss Ricka (You prefer to be addressed formally with the Miss?)

Thank you for your welcome and interesting reply.

I believe you are the first person who has had gyne that I've had a chance to discuss it with. I too have a bit of a problem thinking of it as a disease. I tend to call it a condition. Its sudden appearance at my age, of course, can signal the presence of some other underlying disease. There is a long list of potential causes, and some of them are very scary. Not knowing the underlying cause I do find distressing. But having had a good physical, far from being distressed by my new breasts, I am inclined for the moment to view them more as a gift. In other men, I tend to think that the level of distress probably reflects the degree to which he views the sexes as separate and distinct. I suspect that the more a man's self image is caught up in his own maleness, the more distressed he would be when breasts appear. I'm sure it is very different for a teen with the juvenile version who also has plenty more social reasons to recoil at the appearance of breasts. You probably experienced some of that yourself.

Thanks again for responding, Miss Ricka. Perhaps we can continue this discussion later.

[Guest ricka]

I agree with you that having breasts is a gift. And yes, men who see gender

as being strictly binary rather than a continuum would have more of a problem

dealing with our "condition." The only distress having female breasts had

caused for me during adolescence was in gym class where I was very self-conscious about them.

Fact is I was never teased.

According to the rules here at Laura's you can send PMs after you have 5 posts.

I would be happy to talk with you further then.

Miss Ricka

[Guest paddy]

Hi, Downey,

I can relate to your story about breast growth, I was on TRT for about 5 years, and ended up developing nice perky breasts that any 14 year girl would enjoy.

I did have a Doctor offered to have them removed, which I declined.

I was wanting to go down the path of MtF but the cost was too great as my family said that they would have nothing to do with me if I had the op.MtF. So these days I just enjoy live as a woman (Dressing mainly in unisex clothing and all my underwear etc. is feminine, and I just enjoy life. (I would possibly one oldest members in this group 71yrs)

Laura's Playground has been a great help for me to just enjoying being the way I am.

[Guest Elizabeth K]

Hi, Downey,

I can relate to your story about breast growth, I was on TRT for about 5 years, and ended up developing nice perky breasts that any 14 year girl would enjoy.

I did have a Doctor offered to have them removed, which I declined.

I was wanting to go down the path of MtF but the cost was too great as my family said that they would have nothing to do with me if I had the op.MtF. So these days I just enjoy live as a woman (Dressing mainly in unisex clothing and all my underwear etc. is feminine, and I just enjoy life. (I would possibly one oldest members in this group 71yrs)

Laura's Playground has been a great help for me to just enjoying being the way I am.

As far as I know - active members ages here:

Mary Ellen - 70

Mia 1 - 66

Melissa - 63

JJ - 63

Elizabeth K (me) - 63

Kat - 62

Donna Jean - 60

Sally - 59

Ricka - ?

Sorry if I leave people out - best I remember - many don't give an age

Lizzy

[Guest Downey]

Hey, Paddy, thanks. Yeah, I know breast growth is listed as a possible side effect of TRT. Have searched but have not been able to find any explanation as to why. It makes no sense to me, except that T is a steroid, and steroids as a class are all considered to have that possible effect. I am also realizing that the interaction between one's various hormones is a very complex equation, and that a diagnosis of Low-T probably doesn't imply a change to only one isolated chemical. TRT alone is probably not always sufficient to balance the equation again.

I hope you have found peace with the compromise you chose. I'm sure it was painful for you to make the call you did, but as long as you don't have terrible regrets today I'm sure it was the right one.

Best wishes to you and thank you very much for your reply!

[Guest sarah f]

I don't know how I missed you but Welcome to Laura's Downey. I hope you stick around and post a little more. I look foward to seeing some of your questions.

[Paula ult]

Welcome Downey to Laura's,

I am 58 and have transitioned, my mother was given DES, being transsexual is only one side effects of many, you might want to look into if your mother was given DES diethylstilbestrol, it was given to mothers to prevent miscarriages, it was heavily prescribed and 1 in 10 mothers were given it from the 1940's till it was banned in the 1970's, it was banned for causing birth defects, one of the side effects is what you have, if your mother is still living maybe she knows if she took it. Here is a link to a file explaining the side effects, hope this helps.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7506991/DES%20Sons%20Summary.doc

Paula

[gennee]

Hi Downey and welcome to the forum. I am a 62 year old non-op male to female transsexual. I've had breasts as long as I can remember. When I came out as a crossdresser, I felt that all the charade I was playing was gone. I loved wearing women's clothing, love who I am, and am living as openly as I can.

Today, I have journeyed on many roads. I love my breasts and have had a few comments aoout them. I'm not taking hormones or am going to have reassignment surgery. I am very happy as a transsexual woman and look forward to the future.

Gennee

[Guest ricka]

Lizzy, Hon, I'm 61 so one of the "golden girls" here too!! And Oh Honey, we

don't just get older, we get BETTER!!! Girls, we've hit our stride and I'm

here to say we are in our prime as women!! There's a self-confidence and

contentment about being a woman that I share with all of you who have blossomed

later in life.

Miss Ricka