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Violence And Hate Crimes Against The Transgendered


Have you been the victim of violence or a hate crime?  

132 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you know a transgender victim of violence or a hate crime?

    • Yes
      78
    • No
      54
  2. 2. Have you been the victim of violence or a hate crime?

    • Yes
      51
    • No
      81


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Almost every day on this planet at least one Transgender person somewhere will be the victim of violence, rape or Hate crimes. This happens to both Transmen and Transwomen. Yet if you were to check factual reported statistics it appears to be low. While the FBI keeps violent crime statistics against Gays and Lesbians it does not against Transgender persons. We are ignored by our own Government. In the case of Brandon Teena a Transman who was raped and later murdered reporting the original crime was ignored by the Police Department and Brandon was even blamed for it by the town's sherriff. http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorio.../brandon/1.html . The perpatrators were not arrested at the time of the complaint leading to his murder within days. While this case was sensationalized the press leads us to believe that this was a rare incident. The truth is it was not. Incidents like this happen every day and have happened to over 2000 users who have written me in four years. Except for a few of these cases most were not reported and those that were had been treated like it was their fault. Some were even victims of the Police Themselves. What of the victims who couldn't write because they were dead. Families tend not to report their child was gay or transgendered because they are embarrassed so often the truth is hidden under the rug. Then there are those who prefer not to have their names publicized with the Transgender label next to it because they are stealth and wish to remain that way.

This is a forum not only for transgender victims to tell their story and be supported anonymously but for us as a community to discuss the heinous vilolence committed against our members every day. The first step in fighting hate crimes is to openly talk about it and show the true numbers of how much this occurs. Few have any idea the violence against us is not rare. There was not only Brandon Teena there are thousands of more victims that suffer silently. Tell us your story. Discuss violent hate crimes against Transgenders here.

I am working on a new Hate Crimes section that will open shortly on the Articles page. We can stay silent no longer.

Laura

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Guest Ryan

Yeah, this is a tremendous problem. According to the National Coalition of Anti-Violence Programs, there has been a 24% increase in anti-GLBTQ violence in the last year in the US. And, of course, transgender people are disproportionately affected by this violence.

I have been a victim of violence - nothing too severe, but enough to get me pretty shook up. It's rough, and I can only imagine what it is like for the many others who have it far worse than I do.

If you have been a victim of a hate crime or hate incident, please report it. As Laura said, violence against trans people, even hate crimes, are not recorded by the national government because trans people are not protected by federal hate crime legislation. However, it's important to have records of the violence committed against us. It's also really empowering to report, especially if you have been a victim. You can report hate crimes or hate incidents online here . There's another reporting form at www.hcdn.org, but I haven't been able to access that page recently.

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Guest Ryan

Ooh, actually, here's a better, more extensive reporting form. Go to www.ncavp.org, and at the top of the page there is a PDF file labeled 2007 Report on LGBT Domestic Violence (but it's mislabeled - the report is actually on hate crimes and bias incidents). Click on it, and on the last few pages of the document is a form that you can fill out and send to the National Coalition of Anti-Violence Programs. The rest of the document is worth reading, too.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest SharleahLynn

We do need protection fromthese horrendous doings and it is so very understandable the fear one goes through when this happens to themselves . We all DO need to make our voices heard and make the laws extend to protect us as well, after all , we are citizens of this so called free country. So we should have the same protection as everyone else, what is fair for one needs to be fair for all, or at least that is what I was taught . What all can be done to get the laws to include us as citizens to be protected by these same laws that protect the very ones that commit these dastardly deeds?

SharleahLynn

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Guest Just_Call_Me_Nick

We need protection!!!

Hate crime is a hate crime it should be for everyone...

I myself suffered from a hate crime and not even a dang report was made...

I while living in that small town back in Ms...was thrown out of a market window...and my shoulder was dislocated....and the only reason I was done in such a way was because hating "someone like me" was not against the law!

We need laws for everyone...

Nick~

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Guest Stephanie Butterfield
We need protection!!!

Hate crime is a hate crime it should be for everyone...

I myself suffered from a hate crime and not even a dang report was made...

I while living in that small town back in Ms...was thrown out of a market window...and my shoulder was dislocated....and the only reason I was done in such a way was because hating "someone like me" was not against the law!

We need laws for everyone...

Nick~

Hi Nick,

Ditto, I am trying to work with the police on a better understanding of trans people, but its not easy when the cheif constable sits in his ivory tower and won't meet people like me. He'll go on local television and radio to herald new low crime figures, but I've pointed out to them that they do not publish trans hate crime statistics, as they are burried in other catogories.

Its rumoured he is on his way out, if so, I would very much like to meet the new incumbent to see that the diversity measures i've recommended are implemented, but that that is just a start. I know its not easy for them, finances are tight which is why cso's are being deloyed, but as a result, we've lost the community beat officers, who had full police powers, nowadays they seem to all be in cars and are never there when you need them.

I no longer bother to report hate crime as nothing is ever done to stamp it out. I am regularly abused in my estate by kids as young as 3 to older teens who want to kill me "their words not mine" my house has been targetted 4 times attacked on 3 of those occasions, i've been bottled, stoned, beaten up, threatened with actual physical violence in a pub, and get this, the police asked me to leave and the abuser and his family were allowed to stay and drink up and finish their meal.

Life in the North East of England is hard for the non passable TS

Stephanie

Stephanie

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  • 2 months later...
Guest sar-bear

im sorry if i dont spell right im crying ... thats horrbilye!!! i dont even know why im replying well i think that the people who do such horrible crimes will be punshed by threefold.

well

goddess bless

love sarah

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  • 4 weeks later...
Guest mtf_Emily

I don't hate the people who commit the crimes, i hate what they have done, it doesn't matter what you believe, if you are a neo cup cake or a christian or wiccan, nothing gives anyone the right to harm someone else just because you don't like how they want to live their life, my life is none of their business.

I was assaulted by 5 or 6 neo cup cake skinheads on the subway in boston, I was left for dead and hospitalized for 3 days, they never got caught, they never got looked for. I still don't really hate them, but I cannot say i would forgive them yet, I'll never be the same again, I'm too fearful to even try to pass for a woman, and I know I could easily, I did for 3 years. The cops need to be more accepting of us, PROTECT AND SERVE, not just the middle and upper class NORMAL people, ALL OF US

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • Root Admin

Hi Tommy,

You were only showing how you were feeling. It's not an awful post.

Hugs,

MaryEllen :)

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  • 3 weeks later...
Guest julia_d

Reposted :)

Homicide Victim Identified as Transgendered Person, Duanna Johnson

Reported by: Jill Margetts

Email: JMargetts@...

Contributor: Shane Myers

Eyewitness News Memphis, USA

November 10, 2008

http://www.myeyewitnessnews.com/news/local...33-2b9f8fca3018

MEMPHIS, TN - Duanna Johnson was found shot to death in North

Memphis, according to her lawyer.

Memphis police say it happened just before midnight at Hollywood

near Staten Avenue, Sunday, November 9, 2008.

According to detectives, when officers arrived at the scene, they

found the body lying in the street. Police say a witness heard

gunfire and then saw three people running away from the scene.

Investigators do not have any suspects at this time.

Lawyer Murray Wells confirmed to Eyewitness News that the person who

was killed is his client Duanna Johnson. He says Johnson was often

in the area where she was killed.

Murray says Johnson was trying to leave Memphis and go back to her

hometown of Chicago. According to Murray, Jonson was just about

homeless trying to live in Memphis. He says the apartment where

Jonson was living did not have power. Murray says he was helping

Johnson buy a bus ticket to Chicago.

Johnson was the subject of an alleged video taped beating that

happened in June of 2008. Johnson, who had been arrested on a

prostitution charge, said former Memphis Police Officer Bridges

McRae beat her after making derogatory remarks about her sexuality.

Johnson said another man, Officer J. Swain, held her down during the

beating. Both officers were fired from the department.

Johnson was suing the city for $1.3 million.

Memphis Police are asking anyone with information about Duanna

Johnson's death to call Crime Stoppers at (901) 528-CASH.

http://www.myeyewitnessnews.com/mediacente...video.abc24.com

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Guest April63

Well unfortunately, we can't control everyone's lives, thoughts, and actions. Bad things happen, and there's nothing we can do except try to stop it from happening again.

April

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Guest silverpetals

Gender motive in death, cops say

Dwight DeLee is accused of killing Moses Cannon, 22, who was a transsexual.

Monday, November 17, 2008

By Matt Michael

Staff writer

this article

previous article, for context

Syracuse police are saying what the family of Moses "Teish" Cannon believed all along: Cannon was shot and killed Friday because of his sexual orientation.

Police have charged Dwight R. DeLee, of Syracuse, with Cannon's murder. DeLee, 20, is scheduled to be arraigned on a second-degree murder charge today in Syracuse City Court.

Cannon and his brother, Mark Cannon, both of 404 Arthur St., were shot with a .22-caliber rifle as they sat in a parked car in front of 411 Seymour St. about 8:45 p.m. Friday. The bullet grazed the left arm of Mark Cannon, who was in the driver's seat, and hit Moses Cannon in the chest, police said.

The brothers drove to 411 Seymour St. to attend a party. DeLee went into the house to get the rifle after guests started "making profane and vulgar comments in regards to the sexual preference of our two victims," Syracuse police Chief Gary Miguel said.

Moses Cannon, 22, often dressed like a woman and had a boyfriend. Family members called Cannon "Teish" and used "she" when speaking about him. Shaconia Williams,

Cannon's sister, said Cannon called himself a transsexual.

Mark Cannon, 18, said Sunday that he and Moses did not know DeLee, although they had seen him around the neighborhood. Sgt. Tom Connellan, speaking for the police, said Moses Cannon was not wearing women's clothing Friday night.

"There was no previous argument between these individuals, there was no previous fight, there was no bad blood," Miguel said. "Our suspect took a rifle and shot and killed this person, also wounding his brother, for the sole reason he didn't care for the sexual preference of our victim. Isn't that sad? Isn't that a sad situation that that's the sole reason why?

"I talk to you about this atmosphere of violence and that certain individuals believe that violence is the answer no matter what, and here's just another example," Miguel added.

From the outset, Cannon's family said his death should be treated as a hate crime. Family members said Sunday that DeLee's arrest did not give them any comfort.

"I don't understand. It was 8:30 at night, and they weren't causing any trouble," said Williams, . "You can put (DeLee) away for 1,000 years, and it's not going to make up for what happened."

Onondaga County District Attorney William Fitzpatrick said if his investigators determine the killing was a hate crime, his office will ask a grand jury to consider it. A hate crime is not a separate murder charge, Fitzpatrick said, but it would increase the minimum penalty from 15 years to life to 20 years to life.

Fitzpatrick said his office is still investigating. He said it's possible other people were involved and additional charges could be brought against DeLee.

Police started searching for DeLee after interviewing witnesses. He was located at 2 a.m. Sunday at a residence in Liverpool, police said.

Police listed DeLee's home address as 420 Gifford St., which is the address for the Altamont Program, an alcohol and drug abuse treatment facility. A phone call to the facility's director was not returned Sunday. Police said DeLee had prior convictions on weapon and drug charges.

Miguel said there's no indication the Cannons were lured to the party so they could be assaulted. "The person who called (to invite them to the party) is a friend," Miguel said.

Cannon's death marks the 18th homicide in Syracuse, Connellan said.

Moses and Mark Cannon often hung out together, and family members referred to them as "Bonnie and Clyde." They described "Teish" as someone who loved family and helping others.

"I'm angry. It wasn't her time to go," said Tameka Johnson, Cannon's sister. "She was so full of life and had so much left to give."

Cannon's loss leaves a void in the family that's going to be hard to fill, relatives said. On Sunday, nearly 20 relatives and friends gathered at Cannon's home to comfort each other and share stories about "Teish."

"She was always there for me," said Cannon's niece, Maniya Cannon, 10. "She would do anything to help other people."

Matt Michael can be reached at 470-3085 or [email protected].

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Guest Karen-1954

I used to think a lot about the 3 people that jumped me as I was leaving a store, they had me down in the parking lot and were kicking me when 2 young men came to my rescue. Now days I try to simply remember the 2 brave guys that saved me instead of the 3 that attacked me. By the way, the police and the store had the attitude of "so what".

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Guest Donna Jean

Karen..I am so sorry to hear what happened to you and even madder to hear of the conclusion!

My god, when is this world going to wake up and realize? But, you cannot reason with

knuckle draggers :angry:

I'm happy that you're ok, but....really upset that it happened at all...

I really don't want to get started.......

Peace....

Donna Jean

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  • 5 weeks later...
Guest Zoharstoi
Hi Nick,

Ditto, I am trying to work with the police on a better understanding of trans people, but its not easy when the cheif constable sits in his ivory tower and won't meet people like me. He'll go on local television and radio to herald new low crime figures, but I've pointed out to them that they do not publish trans hate crime statistics, as they are burried in other catogories.

Its rumoured he is on his way out, if so, I would very much like to meet the new incumbent to see that the diversity measures i've recommended are implemented, but that that is just a start. I know its not easy for them, finances are tight which is why cso's are being deloyed, but as a result, we've lost the community beat officers, who had full police powers, nowadays they seem to all be in cars and are never there when you need them.

I no longer bother to report hate crime as nothing is ever done to stamp it out. I am regularly abused in my estate by kids as young as 3 to older teens who want to kill me "their words not mine" my house has been targetted 4 times attacked on 3 of those occasions, i've been bottled, stoned, beaten up, threatened with actual physical violence in a pub, and get this, the police asked me to leave and the abuser and his family were allowed to stay and drink up and finish their meal.

Life in the North East of England is hard for the non passable TS

Stephanie

Stephanie

Has anyone been to Peter Gabriel Focus Site. I follow the links from a Cell camera story on BBC about his backing

of "Witness" a site for people around the world to use cell cameras/video 'corders to send instantly such bad behavior

to this E-Place. The Tech nowdays makes us live in a glass house where everyone can see if one looks. :mellow:

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Guest julia_d

I hope nobody minds me posting these general press releases. I think they are of enough "general interest" to warrant the copy/paste of the full articles.

Tennessee Transgender Political Coalition

For Immediate Release: Dated December 27, 2008

Another Transgender Woman Shot in Memphis

On Christmas Eve, a Memphis television station reported the shooting of Leeneshia Edwards in Memphis. She becomes the third transgender woman shot in Memphis in just six months. At last report, Leeneshia is in critical condition. We extend our hopes and prayers to Leenashia for a speedy recovery.

We also ask for anyone with any information about this latest crime to call Memphis Crimes Stoppers at (901)528-CASH.

The shooting of Leeneshia Edwards helps shed light on a disturbing trend in Memphis. Transgender women who work in the sex industry in order to survive are now being targeted by a pervasive culture of violence.

The indifferent attitude of law enforcement towards the February 16, 2006, murder of Tiffany Berry, and the February 12, 2008, beating of Duanna Johnson by Memphis Police Department officers, has sent a message that the lives of transgender people are not important. This has fed the culture of violence that has permeated the second half of 2008, and is exemplified by the July 1 murder of Ebony Whitaker, the July 28 murder of Dre-Ona Blake, a two year old girl who was killed by the man who had previously been charged with the murder of Tiffany Berry, but was allowed to walk free for two and a half years, the November 9 murder of Duanna Johnson, and now the shooting of Leeneshia Edwards.

This open season on transgender people in Memphis and elsewhere, regardless of whether or not they engage in sex work, must come to an end right now.

We call on business people who refuse to hire transgender people to open their doors immediately to transgender workers so there are alternatives to working on the streets.

We call on shelters that routinely turn away transgender people who are seeking help, to open their doors so that transgender people do not have to live on the streets.

We call on religious leaders who preach intolerance towards crossdressers and transsexuals from the pulpit to cease immediately and begin preaching messages of love and acceptance of diversity.

We call on political leaders of all parties to stop campaigning against transgender people and start supporting fully inclusive employment non-discrimination and hate crimes legislation to show that the lives of transgender people have value.

Marisa Richmond

President

The Tennessee Transgender Political Coalition (TTPC) is an organization designed to educate and advocate on behalf of transgender related legislation at the Federal, State and local levels. TTPC is dedicated to raising public awareness and building alliances with other organizations concerned with equal rights legislation.

For more information, or to make a donation, contact:

Tennessee Transgender Political Coalition (TTPC)

P.O. Box 92335

Nashville, TN 37209

http://ttgpac.com

[email protected]

(615)293-6199

(615)353-1834 fax.

I was nearly a statistic 2 weeks ago.. That's why I have been rather quiet on the forums. Still getting over being attacked in a strange town one night when I had no alternative but to travel alone after dark.. and then the night after in my home town when I was just set on for no reason whatsoever by a group of thugs. Jumped from behind and hit over the head with a bottle or something.. My past life as door security at a rock club saved my skin again.. I don't like using the skills learned i that life.. they have saved me on a few occasions before in similar situations.. It seems I can read which one to take out to frighten the others off...but it was scary getting home and seeing all the blood in my hair from the large cut caused by whatever it was they hit me with.. Again police attitude was "so what" and they wanted to arrest me for causing a bruise to one of the thugs.. until they say the size of the lump and cut on my head... and the fact it was 3 or 4 on 1. It's all a little hazy..

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  • 2 months later...
Guest SuperFlyGal

I was in SF a couple of years ago visiting, I believe, the LGBT Community Center. Two of the guys were talking about how they had found "another" dead and naked on the street. When I asked what it was about they told me that a pre-transitioned MtF was killed and the cops say she was being raped when the guy found out and killed her for it.

They said it wasn't the first time a TG MtF had been killed for the same reason.

It got me a little scared being there, but I've known how dangerous some of the streets in SF can be at dark, I was even given warnings on which ones to avoid while there.

It was still rather sad to hear about, murdering someone for such a reason so callously.

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Guest CharliTo
I was in SF a couple of years ago visiting, I believe, the LGBT Community Center. Two of the guys were talking about how they had found "another" dead and naked on the street. When I asked what it was about they told me that a pre-transitioned MtF was killed and the cops say she was being raped when the guy found out and killed her for it.

They said it wasn't the first time a TG MtF had been killed for the same reason.

It got me a little scared being there, but I've known how dangerous some of the streets in SF can be at dark, I was even given warnings on which ones to avoid while there.

It was still rather sad to hear about, murdering someone for such a reason so callously.

It is...It just doesn't make sense. :( May her rest in peace...

Link to comment

I live in the same building I moved into when I first came to San Francisco. So a lot of tenants got to witness a large part of my medical transition. The only people who don't know I'm trans are new people who move in and if they don't figure it out, someone will be sure to tell them. So I never know how a new tenant is going to behave around me. One day last year, I was in the building's elevator, and when I got to my floor and the door opened, one of the new tenants was standing there, blocking my way. He said I was sick and that he was going to kill me and he was going to make sure that it happened "soon". I called the police and when they came it looked like it was going to be a waste of time. But then this guy came downstairs and I said "that's him!". He admitted to the police that he had plans to kill me!!. He was arrested and eventually was committed to the state mental hospital for 3 years. The police told me that he just doesn't understand that he can't go around threatening to kill people. He was convicted of making criminal threats, and charged with a hate crime. One of the other tenants later told me that the guy was "just" high on crack, and "probably" didn't mean what he said!!! I feel fortunate that this time the perpetrator didn't get away with it, and, I can start looking for a new place to move to because I qualify for relocation expenses paid for through the victim's defense fund. I also feel lucky to be alive.--Nova

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  • 2 months later...
Guest Valentine
Gender motive in death, cops say

Dwight DeLee is accused of killing Moses Cannon, 22, who was a transsexual.

Monday, November 17, 2008

By Matt Michael

Staff writer

this article

previous article, for context

[Article snipped]

An update on this case.

Judge allows DeLee murder case to go forward as a hate crime prosecution

by Jim O'Hara / The Post-Standard

Thursday June 04, 2009, 10:36 AM

Syracuse, NY -- County Judge William Walsh today upheld the constitutionality of the state's hate crime law in the murder prosecution of Dwight DeLee.

DeLee is charged with second-degree murder as a hate crime in the Nov. 14 shooting death of Moses Cannon. Cannon was described by his family as a transsexual who went by the name Latiesha "Teish" Green. The prosecution contends the victim was targeted because of sexual orientation.

Defense lawyer Clarence Johnson had asked Walsh to find the hate crime law unconstitutionally vague and general and unconstitutional in its specific application to DeLee.

Chief Assistant District Attorney Matthew Doran defended the statute and the prosecution of DeLee in court this morning.

After listening to the legal arguments, Walsh sided with the prosecution and allowed the case to go forward as a hate crime murder prosecution.

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  • 10 months later...
Guest Esperanza Xochitl

I don't like to talk about it much, but I've been attacked. I've had friends of mine who had been attacked. I shouldn't speak for them, but I've learned to defend myself. I think I'll leave it at that.

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Guest Esperanza Xochitl
I hope nobody minds me posting these general press releases. I think they are of enough "general interest" to warrant the copy/paste of the full articles.

Tennessee Transgender Political Coalition

For Immediate Release: Dated December 27, 2008

Another Transgender Woman Shot in Memphis

On Christmas Eve, a Memphis television station reported the shooting of Leeneshia Edwards in Memphis. She becomes the third transgender woman shot in Memphis in just six months. At last report, Leeneshia is in critical condition. We extend our hopes and prayers to Leenashia for a speedy recovery.

We also ask for anyone with any information about this latest crime to call Memphis Crimes Stoppers at (901)528-CASH.

The shooting of Leeneshia Edwards helps shed light on a disturbing trend in Memphis. Transgender women who work in the sex industry in order to survive are now being targeted by a pervasive culture of violence.

The indifferent attitude of law enforcement towards the February 16, 2006, murder of Tiffany Berry, and the February 12, 2008, beating of Duanna Johnson by Memphis Police Department officers, has sent a message that the lives of transgender people are not important. This has fed the culture of violence that has permeated the second half of 2008, and is exemplified by the July 1 murder of Ebony Whitaker, the July 28 murder of Dre-Ona Blake, a two year old girl who was killed by the man who had previously been charged with the murder of Tiffany Berry, but was allowed to walk free for two and a half years, the November 9 murder of Duanna Johnson, and now the shooting of Leeneshia Edwards.

This open season on transgender people in Memphis and elsewhere, regardless of whether or not they engage in sex work, must come to an end right now.

We call on business people who refuse to hire transgender people to open their doors immediately to transgender workers so there are alternatives to working on the streets.

We call on shelters that routinely turn away transgender people who are seeking help, to open their doors so that transgender people do not have to live on the streets.

We call on religious leaders who preach intolerance towards crossdressers and transsexuals from the pulpit to cease immediately and begin preaching messages of love and acceptance of diversity.

We call on political leaders of all parties to stop campaigning against transgender people and start supporting fully inclusive employment non-discrimination and hate crimes legislation to show that the lives of transgender people have value.

Marisa Richmond

President

The Tennessee Transgender Political Coalition (TTPC) is an organization designed to educate and advocate on behalf of transgender related legislation at the Federal, State and local levels. TTPC is dedicated to raising public awareness and building alliances with other organizations concerned with equal rights legislation.

For more information, or to make a donation, contact:

Tennessee Transgender Political Coalition (TTPC)

P.O. Box 92335

Nashville, TN 37209

http://ttgpac.com

[email protected]

(615)293-6199

(615)353-1834 fax.

I was nearly a statistic 2 weeks ago.. That's why I have been rather quiet on the forums. Still getting over being attacked in a strange town one night when I had no alternative but to travel alone after dark.. and then the night after in my home town when I was just set on for no reason whatsoever by a group of thugs. Jumped from behind and hit over the head with a bottle or something.. My past life as door security at a rock club saved my skin again.. I don't like using the skills learned i that life.. they have saved me on a few occasions before in similar situations.. It seems I can read which one to take out to frighten the others off...but it was scary getting home and seeing all the blood in my hair from the large cut caused by whatever it was they hit me with.. Again police attitude was "so what" and they wanted to arrest me for causing a bruise to one of the thugs.. until they say the size of the lump and cut on my head... and the fact it was 3 or 4 on 1. It's all a little hazy..

I heard that the Memphis chapter of Bash Back! took action in response to the murder of Duanna Johnson.

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      Got a new Granddaughter this morning.  Mother and child (and father) are doing fine. This makes 7 granddaughters and one grandson.  I have 2 sons and 6 daughters myself.  And then I  switched teams.  I think this stuff runs in the family. Another hard day for the patriarchy.
    • Ivy
      Like @MaeBe pointed out, Trump won't do these things personally.  I doubt that he actually gives a rat's a$$ himself.  But he is the foot in the door for the others.   I don't really see this.  Personally, I am all in favor of "traditional" families.  I raised my own kids this way and it can work fine.  But I think we need to allow for other variations as well.   One thing working against this now is how hard it is for a single breadwinner to support a family.  Many people (I know some) would prefer "traditional" if they could actually afford it.  Like I mentioned, we raised our family with this model, but we were always right at the poverty level.   I was a "conservative evangelical" for most of my life, actually.  So I do understand this.  Admittedly, I no longer consider myself one. I have family members still in this camp.  Some tolerate me, one actually rejects me.  I assure you the rejection is on her side, not mine.  But, I understand she believes what she is doing is right - 'sa pity though. I mean no insult toward anyone on this forum.  You're free to disagree with me.  Many people do.   This is a pretty complex one.  Socialism takes many forms, many of which we accept without even realizing it.  "Classism" does exist, for what it's worth.  Always has, probably always will.  But I don't feel like that is a subject for this forum.   As for the election, it's shaping up to be another one of those "hold your nose" deals.
    • Ivy
      Just some exerts regarding subjects of interest to me.
    • Ivy
      Yeah.  In my early teens I trained myself out of a few things that I now wish I hadn't.
    • Abigail Genevieve
      I was thinking in particular of BLM, who years ago had a 'What We Believe' section that sounded like they were at war with the nuclear family.   I tried to find it. Nope.  Of interest https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/aug/28/ask-politifact-does-black-lives-matter-aim-destroy/   My time is limited and I will try to answer as I can.
    • Ivy
      Well, I suppose it is possible that they don't actually plan on doing what they say.  I'm not too sure I want to take that chance.  But I kinda expect to find out.  Yet, perhaps you're right and it's all just talk.  And anyway, my state GOP is giving me enough to worry about anyway. I remember a time when being "woke" just meant you were paying attention.  Now it means you are the antichrist. I just don't want the government "protecting" me from my personal "delusions."
    • MaeBe
      1.  I think there are some legitimate concern.   2. Thoroughly discussing this will consume many threads.   3. I disagree partially with @MaeBe but there is partial agreement.   4. The context includes what is happening in society that the authors are observing.  It is not an isolated document.   The observation is through a certain lens, because people do things differently doesn't mean they're doing it wrong. Honestly, a lot of the conservative rhetoric is morphing desires of people to be treated with respect and social equity to be tantamount to the absolution of the family, heterosexuality, etc. Also, being quiet and trying to blend in doesn't change anything. Show me a social change that benefits a minority or marginalized group that didn't need to be loud.   5. Trump, if elected, is as likely to spend his energies going after political opponents as he is to implementing something like this.   Trump will appoint people to do this, like Roger Severino (who was appointed before, who has a record of anti-LGBTQ+ actions), he need not do anything beyond this. His people are ready to push this agenda forward. While the conservative right rails about bureaucracy, they intend to weaponize it. There is no question. They don't want to simplify government, they simply want to fire everyone and bring in conservative "warriors" (their rhetoric). Does America survive 4 year cycles of purge/cronyism?   6. I reject critical theory, which is based on Marxism.  Marxism has never worked and never will.  Critical theory has problems which would need time to go into, which I do not have.   OK, but this seems like every other time CRT comes up with conservatives...completely out of the blue. I think it's reference is mostly just to spark outrage from the base. Definitely food thought for a different thread, though.   7. There are groups who have declared war on the nuclear family as problematically patriarchal, and a lot of other terms. They are easy to find on the internet.  This document is reacting to that (see #4 above).   What is the war on the nuclear family? I searched online and couldn't find much other than reasons why people aren't getting married as much or having kids (that wasn't a propaganda from Heritage or opinions pieces from the right that paint with really broad strokes). Easy things to see: the upward mobility and agency of women, the massive cost of rearing children, general negative attitudes about the future, male insecurity, etc. None of this equates to a war on the nuclear family, but I guess if you look at it as "men should be breadwinners and women must get married for financial support and extend the male family line (and to promote "National Greatness") I could see the decline of marriage as a sign of the collapse of a titled system and, if I was a beneficiary of that system or believe that to NOT be tilted, be aggrieved.   8.  Much of this would have to be legislated, and this is a policy documented.  Implementation would  be most likely different, but that does not mean criticism is unwarranted.   "It might be different if you just give it a chance", unlike all the other legislation that's out there targeting LGBTQ+ from the right, these are going to be different? First it will be trans rights, then it will be gay marriage, and then what? Women's suffrage?   I get it, we may have different compasses, but it's not hard to see that there's no place for queer people in the conservative worldview. There seems to be a consistent insistence that "America was and is no longer Great", as if the 1950s were the pinnacle of society, completely ignoring how great America still is and can continue to be--without having to regress society to the low standards of its patriarchal yesteryears.    
    • awkward-yet-sweet
      Cadillac parts are pretty expensive, so repairing them costs more.  But they don't seem to break down more than other makes.  Lots of Lincoln models use Ford cars as a base, so you can get parts that aren't much more expensive.    My family has had good luck with "Panther platform" cars.  Ford Crown Victoria, Mercury Marquis, Lincoln Towncar or Continental.  4.6 V8 and 5.0 V8.  Reasonable fuel economy, and fairly durable.  Our county sheriff's office was running Chargers and SUV's for a while, but has gone back to older Crown Victorias for ease of maintenance.  GF rebuilds them here.  But they are getting more scarce, since the newest ones were made in 2011.    1992-1997 years were different than the later years.  1998-2001 they did some changes, and apparently the best years are 2003 to 2011.  Check Craigslist, and also government auctions.  GF has gotten a lot of them at auction, and they can be had in rough-but-running shape for around $1,000.  Ones in great shape can be found in the $5,000+ range.  Good for 200,000 miles without significant rebuilding.  Go through engine and transmission and electrical systems, and they go half a million.    Some Chrysler models are OK.  The 300 mostly has the same engines as the Charger and Challenger, so parts availability is pretty good.  But they tend to get timing issues.  The older Chrysler Sebring convertibles were pretty reliable, sometimes going 200,000 miles without tons of problems, although after that they were pretty much worn out. 
    • Abigail Genevieve
      I think I have read everything the Southern Baptists have to say on transgender, and it helped convince me they are dead wrong on these issues.  They can be nice people.  I would never join an SBC church.
    • Abigail Genevieve
      You come across as a thoughtful, sweet, interesting and pleasant person.    There are parts of this country, and more so the world, where evangelicals experience a great deal of finger wagging.
    • awkward-yet-sweet
      It has been an interesting experience being in a marriage in a Christian faith community, yet being intersex/trans.  I stay pretty quiet, and most have kind of accepted that I'm just the strange, harmless exception.  "Oh, that's just Jen.  Jen is...different."  I define success as being a person most folks just overlook. 
    • awkward-yet-sweet
      Well, I live in an area with a lot of Southern Baptists, Evangelicals, etc...  We've experienced our share of finger-wagging, as the "standard interpretation" of Scripture in the USA is that the Bible only approves of "one man, one woman" marriage.  My faith community is mostly accepted here, but that has taken time and effort.  It can be tough at times to continue to engage with culture and the broader population, and avoid the temptation to huddle up behind walls like a cult.    Tolerance only goes so far.  At one point, my husband was asked to run for sheriff.  He declined, partly because an elected official with four wives would have a REALLY tough time.  (Of course, making way less than his current salary wasn't an option either). 
    • Abigail Genevieve
      My bone structure is far more female than male.  I can't throw like a guy, which has been observed by guys numerous times, and moving like a woman is more natural.  It just is.  I'm not going out of my way to act in a fem. way, as you say, but I am letting go of some of the 'I am not going to move like that because I am a guy' stuff I have defensively developed.  The other breaks through anyway - there were numerous looks from people at work when I would use gestures that are forbidden to men, or say something spontaneously no guy would ever say.   At one point, maybe a year or more ago, I said it was unfair for people to think they were dealing with a man when they were actually dealing with a woman.    Girl here.  'What is a woman' is a topic for another day.
    • Willow
      Mom, I’m home!  What’s for lunch?   Leftover pizza .   ok.    Not exactly our conversation but there is truth in the answer.     @KymmieLsorry you are sick. Feel better soon.   Girl mode, boy mode no mode, not us. Nothing functional for either of us.   anyone here have or had a 10 year old (plus or minus) Caddy, Lincoln or Chrysler?  How was it?  Lots of repairs?  Comfortable seats? Anything positive or negative about it?  I need to replace my 2004 Ford Explorer Eddie Bauer, it’s eating $100 dollar bills and needs a couple of thousand dollars worth of work and that doesn’t even fix the check engine code.  Obviously, it isn’t worth putting that kind of money into a 20 year old car with a 174 thousand miles.   Willow
    • Ashley0616
      Oversized pink shirt, pink and black sports bra
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