Violence And Hate Crimes Against The Transgendered

[Guest Jennifer T]

Hi Sophia. I see that you differentiate between murder and manslaughter. And your comments tend to imply that if it's manslaughter you can see varying degrees. What is it about 'murder' that cements your stance? Is it semantics? If someone who was truly insane or suffered from a mental condition killed someone, could you then label that manslaughter? Or would that still be murder and worthy of the same punishment as a genius who methodically plans and kills?

I guess I see many shades of grey.

[Guest sophia.gentry58]

Hi Jennifer,

I guess what I really have a problem with is people not being willing to accept responsibility for their actions. All things being equal I have no right to put my hands on anyone unless I am protecting life and or limb. I say all things being equal because I realize there are people who do not fit this category because their minds are deficient in a way that prohibits them from functioning on a cognitive level that is deemed necessary to be considered competent. In such cases murder is by reason of insanity. Everyone else are or should be accountable and responsible for their actions.

If my wife and I get in an argument and I push her, she trips and hits her head on the corner of a coffee table and dies as a result, that's manslaughter and I should be held accountable to that action and accept responsibility for what punishment may follow. However, if my son gets molested by his martial arts instructor, then kidnapped before the perpetrator (perp) is caught and I hear on the tv that the perp is being brought in by the police at the local airport, I make my way to the airport and basically "lay in wait" for the perp to be brought pass me before I shoot him in the head, killing him; that's 1st degree murder. Make no mistake about it, me pushing my wife and causing her death and me shooting a man in the head, causing his death have two of the exact same ingredients; in both scenarios I would have been emotional when I did the acts, but both would have been precipitated by a thought, perhaps and most likely many thoughts that would have led up to and during the act itself.

My punishment for accidently killing my wife should be less severe than if I cautiously planned to kill a person. But, however, how many times did I think about how mad my wife made me before I pushed her? How many times did I even think about pushing her before I actually put my hands on her at all? How many times would I have thought about a man's hands on my son's body before I thought about taking his life?

Our conversation started out with us talking about hate crimes and whether a person should be held liable for their thoughts or should they be punished for their acts of destruction regardless of the thought(s)behind the deed. I think a person has the opportunity, all things being equal, to control their thoughts before their destructive deeds, if not, all I care about is that you pay for your action(s) because you failed to control your thoughts.

Sophia

[Guest Jennifer T]

Understood. Though I think i still disagree. And that's ok. I believe the motive (or thought) behind the deed contributes to the severity of the deed, it's probable outcome and it's eventual consequence. Humans are emotional beings. Our system of justice will and does reflect that. Were we Vulcan things would be different. (attempt at a little levity)

Thank you for taking the time and effort to discuss this with me. I've enjoyed the process. Though next time maybe we can choose a less serious topic. :-)

Peace to you, this day.

[Guest sophia.gentry58]

Thank you Jennifer for dialoguing with me on this matter.

Sophia

[Guest molly'ssofem]

Very thought provoking indeed.I agree.murder is murder.degrees of murder still come to murder and to be murdered for being hated or simply to be robbed still leaves the victim DEAD!!And if the end result is the same then it is right that the penalty for it should be too.

[Charlize]

The LGBT community has long been a target of hate crimes as we all know. This crime in 1973 was terrible but because of the mind set of the country nothing positive came out of the horror. ( http://www.npr.org/2016/06/24/483134445/out-of-ashes-an-unwavering-resolve-thats-the-legacy-we-never-ran-away?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20160624 ) . If there is anything good coming out of the terror in Orlando it is because times have definitely changed. Maybe it will have positive results. Regardless I hope we can continue to make progress without tragedies.

Hugs,

Charlize

[Josiep]

  Folks the topic of hate crimes is sad in it self, that we even have to address this. Yet in our society and world there are those that can not control themselves or their emotions. I have spent my life from the Law Enforcement side, engaging in and seeking out confrontation, That was the nature of the profession. Now in retirement I seek to avoid it, That does not mean to hide and shelter. It means avoid it, side step it, It does not mean to become a victim. With that said, It means that we should develop or have developed a sense of "Situational Awareness" Which in effect should direct us to think that if something or someone looks to be trouble in the making, That would then would be the time to vacate the area. 

  Now what I am going to say may offend some of you, I don't mean to. I travel mostly in New Hampshire, Vermont, and Maine. All three are "Constitutional Carry" states. Yes I carry a firearm at all times, I bought a nice large leather purse, which in the back pocket is a holster that is large enough to contain a full sized pistol, an extra magazine and a small pepper spray. My wish is to go trough the rest of my years "never" needing these items, but I will not allow myself to be hurt or dead for the failure to have them.  Now I know that this is not for everyone and some states have laws that prevent you from being able to do this. Thusly you have to abide by the laws of where you live and travel.  Again I did not write this to offend anyone.

  

 

[VickySGV]

1 hour ago, Josiep said:

Again I did not write this to offend anyone.

 

No offense will be taken here, several of us are retired from law enforcement professions, although not all of us were sworn Peace Officers. At times we have had discussions and found other members who own firearms, but we stay away from specific discussion of firearms since some of our members have been harmed by them, or have attempted self harm with them.  Being vigilant and alert to your surroundings, and learning which combination of things you see and hear give you a need for greater vigilance, or actual fear, and knowing how to avoid dangerous situations is literally lifesaving.  

[Josiep]

Vicky, Thank You for understanding. 

[SugarMagnolia]

I'm about as liberal as they come, but I have no problem with responsible gun ownership for personal protection for those who choose to do so. It's not something that I personally feel the need for, but I respect those who choose to exercise that right. 
 

I do think this must seem a bit strange to our forum friends out side the USA, though.

 

[Kris-Boston]

More of a basic awareness  Mace or Pepper Spay depending on the state you live in a travel in can give you a few minutes to get out of harms way .  In the real world was sprayed a few times in the academy and by a demented partner who had poor aim control and got me as well and the customer of the day .  Used it on a dog when working for the postal service , it stopped the pit bull that had no lease and thought of me as a tasty treat , but it does take some time to react .  Stay safe and aware of where you are , flashlights , horns , and a well charged cell phone .   

[Carolyn Marie]

2 hours ago, Kris-Boston said:

More of a basic awareness  Mace or Pepper Spay depending on the state you live in a travel in can give you a few minutes to get out of harms way .    Stay safe and aware of where you are , flashlights , horns , and a well charged cell phone .   

 

All excellent advice, Kris.  When I take my walks around the neighborhood I usually take my pepper spray (I carry the gel type).  I've never had to use it on man or beast (or a beastly man), but it gives comfort knowing I'm not totally without protection.  Needless to say, its in my handbag all other times, along with a Taser.   Even though I'm an ex-cop, I won't carry a firearm.

 

Carolyn Marie

[Donnie_1961]

The best offense is a good defense. Hence my motto: Be safe. Be Smart.

Most attackers, either verbally or physically, aren't that formidable for someone who is ready for them.

My father once told me to "Walk like you have a purpose."

I works. If you project confidence most people won't bother you.

Verbal attacks can be ignored. The perpetrator is just looking to see if they can get a rise out of you. Don't justify stupidity with response.

Physical attacks can be avoided by being aware of your surroundings and not putting yourself in unhealthy situations in the first place.

Stay in shape. You can still be feminine looking but also be strong. Predators look for those that look vulnerable to prey on. 

A self defense course can a helpful tool. it can teach you to react without thinking. Because some situations happen so fast you don't have time to think.

 

My attack happened a long time ago. I allowed myself to be in a situation that I shouldn't have been in.  I was physically assaulted and thrown out a third floor window.  I suffered a head injury and memory loss. I couldn't remember what had happened. The memory didn't come back until 25 years later. I cried my eyes out.