I Was Maybe Lost My Faith.

[Guest Gabi-lotr]

Hi dudes and gals and others!

I just cant go anymore to church because this gender thing.

Enough talk. Here is an interesting msn conversation. I was copy pasted this and translated from hungarian to english.

Sry if something dont understandable.

Start of the conversation.

Gabi-lotr

*can i ask?

*re

*nevermind.i ask then you will answer when you can

*If you will here

*so god made man and woman.

*but why with the method which is resulted in a problem:A man can have woman spirit and vica versa?

*Well?

*I see you here.

*I ask i beg you pls explain this to me.

*My future church trips depends on your answer.

Matyeee:

*no woman spirit.

*the spirit not have gender

*Only just your body and hormones have gender. (i think hes means for sex and not gender but nm)

*the spirit is you.

Gabi-lotr:

*I dont separate the mind from the spirit.

*Yes

Matyeee:

*and because you got male body your spirit is need to accept that.

Gabi-lotr:

*the spirit is you.

Matyeee:

*the situation is

Gabi-lotr:

*So a woman or a man

Matyeee:

*the spirit is not be man or woman

*this is just the body

Gabi-lotr:

*this is stupidity

*its may meant the men and women have the same attitude

*but it's not goes that way

*a female inside is different than a male.

*they thinks different

*so the spirit have gender

*but if

*the catholics and christians thinks:the spirit has no have gender then i thank you i follow my own faith.

*secondly

*lets say the spirit has no gender.

*its means any of the spirits can love any of the spirits.

*but then why christians and catholichs hates homosexuality?

*so you see

*its very ill thing.

Matyeee:

*i can't answer all the questions im not a theologian

Gabi-lotr:

*ok

*then its enought for now.

*but i maybe go

*but only for myself

Matyeee:

*God is almighty

*think that way

Gabi-lotr:

*so he tought i better to be a woman?

*because

*the nature is made me

*but god tought the nature is made me wrong?

*and he gave me a woman spirit?

Matyeee:

*no

*the nature is God

*everything is god

*the last sinthetical material too

Gabi-lotr:

*

Matyeee:

*because god made everything from the nothing. which human forming.but from the nothing human either cant make things

Gabi-lotr:

*God exist

*in a middle of nothing

*why god be everything if he just made everything from nothing somehow?

*please dont tell me that the gravel where i walks is god...

Matyeee:

*because hes the source

*not god

*but the gravel

*but hes made it

Gabi-lotr:

*yes

*exactly

*but because of this hes not this.

*but you says everything is god to the last sinthetical material.

*catolicitism is very controversial

*never mind

*i have an idea

*i believe in him but just with my own method, opinion. dot.

*with the method what i think

*not with the method which they says

Matyeee:

*"so my work is done"

Gabi-lotr:

*?

*what you try to say with this?

*yours sure

*with me

*on that matter

Matyeee:

*i just try to say i was too short in knowledge about this

*and you dont try to listen me

*so be at an end

Gabi-lotr:

*but

*i listen to you

*but what you said till now, its full with paradox

*you once say the sky is blue then you say its purple

Matyeee:

*then i failed

*again and again

Gabi-lotr:

*seems like it was god's will

*to fail you

Matyeee:

*yes

*i was sometimes need to be punished

*god sometimes guide to the right path with this

*well i go to sleep

*the lord be with you

Gabi-lotr:

*ok

*cya

*with you too

Matyeee:

*Amen

*gnite

*cya^^

Gabi-lotr:

*gnite

Matyeee:

*don't give up

End of the conversation

Well thats all.It's messed me up with God, the religion, christianity and everything....

Solution for me or for ppls whos have the same problem?

How you deal with this, and what you think?

[Guest Elizabeth K]

The scope of the discussion is too big. You cannot gain or lose faith on such a discussion.

Here is a little part that is easy to understand. "God made them both, man and woman."

NOTICE the 'AND' - it does not read "OR."

So we all are both.

There is something to think about.

Lizzy

[Guest Gabi-lotr]

i understand this and i understand that we are all both but matters which part the strongest.

[Guest Gabi-lotr]

The scope of the discussion is too big. You cannot gain or lose faith on such a discussion.

Here is a little part that is easy to understand. "God made them both, man and woman."

NOTICE the 'AND' - it does not read "OR."

So we all are both.

There is something to think about.

Lizzy

Haha i got it! i blonde.

[Guest Eck]

As far as male and female and spirits and bodies go, your spirit is you. It has your personality. It has your gender - your true gender. So the spirit certainly does have gender because it is you! The confusing part, for me at least, is to figure out why my body does not match my spirit/personality/gender. That is the confusing part for you, right? I go to church regularly and I believe in God and I think of it this way: I am the best of all God has to offer. I can understand men and I can understand women because I have been created with a little bit of both. I am one of God's unique super-creations and it gives me more experience and perspective to help others who are struggling. I have begun to see it as a very special gift and a calling in life instead of a plague and a curse or a punishment. Sure, I hate it. I do not feel like dealing with it all the time - this wrong-body, right-mind problem. But it is the way that this imperfect life on earth is. When we get to Heaven, God will have our perfect bodies waiting for us there. It says so in the Bible. So, in the meantime, you have to have faith that God did not make a mistake. You are exactly as God wants you to be. And God does not want you to suffer. He wants you to be happy, to help others with the challenges you have faced and the experience that you gain from these things. God really does not want to see you sad or confused or hurting, even though it may be hard to believe at times. I sure have a hard time with God sometimes, and I get downright angry with Him sometimes because I do not, in my limited human understanding, know what He is trying to accomplish with all of this. Part of our problem as human beings is that we have to define everything. Then, if it does not fit neatly into our very limited definition, it is "strange" or "weird" or an "abomination". God does not think that way. He is not limited by definitions - and certainly not OUR definitions! How silly He must think those are sometimes? Be assured that God has a specific purpose for you, just the way He made you, and that He loves you and wants you to be happy. Do not give up. God is there for you. And your faith does not have to match the Catholics' or the Methodists' or anybody else's. Faith is a relationship with God - your very own - and so you can have whatever kind of faith that God and you have together. There is nothing wrong with that. In fact, that is a very healthy sign! And anybody who says you have to believe exactly the way they believe really does not understand what faith is and they should work on their own relationship with God before they try to mess with yours!

Hope this helps.

Eck

[Guest Gabi-lotr]

It helps and anyway i think in the same way as you but anyway the topic title not correct because i not lost my faith just sometimes i mad at God.

And not just that but i started hating the existing religions because of the things said above.I have my own built up religion world and faith and theories, so i still believe and atm i love God.

The problem i dont want to go to a place called as church where everyone says water but drinks wine and where peoples hates me.

I explain: They says everyone needs to love others etc., but they are hate gays, lesbians, and transgendered persons.They hate the "differents" and wants punish them.Why i should go to a church where the priest says to everyone how bad for example the relationships between same sexed persons?

So at the moment i still dont feels myself able to go into a chatolic church or whatever, and i hate this situation and i hate them.I hate just a very bit because i hate hating others and i very hate this hate feeling.I always want loving others and the hate feeling is killing me.I ultra sensitive about hate (and about another things too), i cant stand this.

Anyway officially i catholic.

I think i will never able again to go into a church but if i wrong, i sure i just go to churc for just myself but atm i dont want to go, i dont able for this.

It's kinda irritating because i enjoyed my trips into the church.I cant enjoy now, because they teach a lot of things which things is outdated and contains a lot of stupidities.

I just want to listen to my heart and my own nice cool and modern faith what is i built up by myself around God etc.

I dont want listen stupidities...

And for Elizabeth K's reply:I realized i didnt got what you mean or just i think differently and i dont agree with you.The Bible says God made woman and man as a separated entities and not mixes what you refer for with your "So we all are both." thing...I just can agree in one thing.Each person have their own personality and spirit and their personality and spirit is made or make them to a man or a woman or a balanced entity but just inside, and the body not always match with the thing as exist inside....

I angry because in religion they thinks just man and woman exist and the body always match with the spirit and they thinks your spirit doesnt have gender...They say its just your body...They dont understand the thing that a man and a woman feels themselves differently so yeah...We have gender inside but they dont agree with this.They thinks body=gender and gender=body while they disagree about one thing.They say our spirits dont have gender...Its just our bodies they says...

Check the msn chat.The dude just wrote these thing to me and these things these teachings made and make me angry.

I feels myself very nervous because i lost maybe for forever the ability to go to church.And it's sad for me because i felt myself better in the church, just everything changed a lot because of my GID. I just started thinking about things and i realized and noticed things as you can see this in this reply above a bit.

I feels now a very hard and almost indestructible inner conflict.

Thats all............ :'( :'( :'(

[Guest Emily Ray]

Gabi,

Take comfort in the fact that this is one mans understanding of God and I would say it is not very complete. In the beginning God created Man and Woman and they were Male and Female and this was good.

this was a very ideal time in history. the animals didn't eat each other, there was no death or disease, it was paradise.

Man and Woman disobeyed God and ate from the Tree of Knowledge. They committed the first sin. Adam and Eve saw that they were naked and were ashamed and hid from God. Death entered all of Creation, The Animals killed each other for food and over territory Creation had fallen Paradise was no more

Since that time disease has become everywhere. people die. natural disasters occur. And the relevant part of the story males are born on occasion with female genders and girls on occasion are born with male genders.

we are no different than blind children or deaf children. if a child is born with a cleft palette do we not fix it! yes, we do! and so, I say fix me. I was not born this way because of a mistake of nature. No, I was born this way so the world can see Gods work in my life and believe in Him who saves me, heals me, gives me hope, loves me when no one else would.

God is OK with us getting the help we need to ensure our good health. Don't listen to those who would stand in judgment of you with out walking a mile in your footsteps. they have nothing to offer you but pain and suffering and those are not from God.

I hope you can understand what I'm saying. if not or you need clarification please PM me. I don't want you to loose your faith because of knowledgeable people.

Huggs

Emily

[Guest Dakota.P]

I totally agree with Emily. Very well put.

Also, don't confuse religion with relationship. People came up with the idea of religion, you won't find it in the Bible. What the Bible does talk about is a relationship with God who loves you.

And I would take what that person told with a (large) grain of salt. Just because someone says something about God doesn't make it true. People will be wrong sometimes. I have found the only thing I can be sure of is God, His love, and His Word. We have His Word in the Bible. If you have questions about God, just read what He gave you.

~D

[Guest JaniceW]

Gabi-Lotr,

I hear what you are saying very clearly. For me, also born Catholic, I have resolved this issue the followng way; I see a church as a place I can go to worship my god as I see fit. I want to worship at a place where people mostly believe as I do about god. But it is not necessary to me that those peopl agree with everything I feel about god, just that it is similar to how I see it. My relationship with god is very personal and private and needs no church to validate it. Church is just a place I go to focus on my relationship with god. The church I choose does NOT dictate my relationship with god but rather reflects it as my relationship has influenced my choice of church not the other way around.

As for the hate, I don't feel it. I don't have a problem with loving a person but not liking what they do or say. I can accept that people are complex and that I don't want to summarize a person into something that doesn't reflect that complexity, just because I don't agree with someone about their views regarding homosexuality does not mean I must dismiss that person totally from my life.

[Guest Dakota.P]

I just remembered this. This is Mark 12:25. "When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven." This next passage is from Daniel 8:15 when Daniel sees the angel Gabriel. "While I, Daniel, was watching the vision and trying to understand it, there before me stood one who looked like a man." So it looks like angels have gender and our souls are like the angels, so our souls have gender. I would say that that person told you incorrect information.

~D

[Guest Gabi-lotr]

Lots of replyes i almost can say nothing but i fully understand and agree what you folks says and now i see the things clearerly.

*throws away Matyeee* (the conversation dude) ;P

Maybe this is why he said to me God was made him fail with me the things about what he said in this conv. and because God wanted him to be fail with me this is why i cant accept this.And maybe this is why he said at the almost the end this conv. and not just this but "God makes us sometimes suffer or fail" because God try to guide us to remain and walk in the right way.

It's God will.To made him fail with me in this conv and made me dont agree with him.God guide us and watch.

I now dunno what to do with my TGism if exist.Because my TGism is very sexual oriented (autogynephilia) and i schizophrenic and every times when i think about my gender identity i just suffer.If i dont think about the matter to become a woman i never feels myself ill in spirit.So maybe i just schizophrenic and not a TG and God want me to remain as what i am.I mean God want me to remain boy in body because i think i need to be a woman by my schizophrenia which is a mental illness so i just have a delusion system and i just thinks i inside a woman while i not and for me my sex orientation matters a lot and make me to think about to be a woman.Not just because autogynephilia but i now think i was just a gay man in my whole life who wished to be a girl in my whole life started at age 12 when i was felt love to a boy who was became very soon my best friend.

I also heard here in the forums something.Someone said autogynephilia will caused by sexual traumas as a child and this is why this is a pharaphilia.I had a very bad sexual trauma at age 8 and i thinks my auto started with this and this trauma made me to able to love boys and this is why the things happened with me started at age 12 and this is why i confused about my gender and sometimes wants to be a woman.

Lets say i thinks now i just schizophrenic with delusion system and i have also a cool autogynephilia, but i thinks these are not make me TG or woman or anything....I just a gay man who cant accept himself as a gay man and want to be a woman.

It's kinda weird if you ask me because i also likes girls too, i love them.Maybe i love girls better than boys or its fully balanced and for me it's doesnt matters whos i love.I feels myself almost always comfortable as a man....just this hated body hair makes me ill and sometimes when i start thinking...ehh...

You folks helped me a lot and i think i remain as a man in body and i will able again to go into the church.It will make me happy.

PS.:Maybe a lots of more things what i want to say but i now out of thoughts.

[Guest Dakota.P]

It will make me happy.

Good! I am glad that you are getting things figured out. Just live your life.

~D