Ftm's & Porn

[Flint]

Okay, so keeping this as PG friendly as I can.

Something I've been wondering, a lot of FTM's can't picture themselves any other way. They're aware of their bodies, but when it comes to thinking about certain things, we can't or don't yet feel comfortable enough to see ourselves in the biological body we have in these fantasies.

I was wondering if an FTM who is perhaps a regular viewer of such things as porn, if this could actually damage them more so? Damaging their perception of how they look and are. In other words instead of perhaps slowly coming to terms with what they have, testosterone helped a little and so on they won't ever be able to come to terms with it because they see this porn and then that's all that they can...erm...well....being in their biological bodies just wouldn't work for them because they wouldn't be able to see themselves as men because of the porn. I am finding it difficult to explain what I mean, but I'm hoping people will get the idea.

What I mean is the porn may work for them, but when it actually comes to real life because they don't have what other men have and surgery for FTM's isn't the best, it just wouldn't work for them?

[Guest UnicornGiggles]

I watch gay porn a lot. It kills me inside, but I weirdly need it.

[JJ]

Porn is fantasy in essence. Issues about the morality of the industry aside many, many men enjoy porn. The vast majority don't begin to measure up to what they see-nor do their partners measure up to what they see. We see movies which reach us more emotionally than porn, with near perfect men and women. Often in sexual situations that aren't possible for most FtMs. I don't think porn makes us feel more inadequate.

I play a RPG that is physical-not sexual-but the character can run and ride and is strong. Instead of making me feel worse about my lack of mobility and the things I can no longer do it actually makes me feel as if I have experienced them again.I dream more about myself doing all those things when I have been playing and feel much less frustrated by my limitations. For me it is a release and does not cause me problems with body image in real life because my body isn't like my character. Now I admit I am careful to balance my RPG with real life interactions and don't let my game interactions usurp my real life interactions. That would be unhealthy to say the least.

I think porn serves the same function. And for me it does not increase dysphoria. Perhaps we will have a wide range of reactions and opinions.

[Flint]

I can't watch porn - it's just too painful. I get the same feeling when I see prostitutes... Never can get past the sadness that the people must use their bodies in that way just to make a living. I know I'm projecting my feelings onto them - it may really be an enjoyable job...

But, seeing a female body nude is enough to make me feel horribly inadequate - not ony erroneously equipped, but they're always about 40 years younger too.

Could it be better for FTM's than us girls? I think that guys are more aroused by fantasy and therefore find more interest in things like porn. Just gotta think there's some healthier alternatives!

Love, Kat

I can understand that, a lot of porn does somewhat victimise women in straight porn. But I think that it actually depends what porn a person is watching. There are more friendly, even possibly more romantic versions of porn. Although that generally is more towards the female porn viewer than men, but men do look at that too. It's just knowing where to look and find it, and most of the porn that appears on the home page of a site normally shows the sadly more...not so friendly (depending how you look at it)

Also I think people have a picture in their heads that porn are these drugged up women, foreign and simply feel they NEED to do it because of the money, while some porn is like that there is also porn that is a real couple. Both of the individuals being aware of what is happing. Just because perhaps one may not want the public to see them and their partner doesn't mean others don't. Like I say I think it all depends on the porn one is viewing.

@ JJ, what I really mean is the idea that an FTM watches the porn which may be fine at first but can it not further down the line actually cause problems when they're in a relationship with someone? I mean If they have spent most of their time experiencing their sex drive using porn, then they get a partner and now they don't have the images in front of them to help them imagine certain things and they'd be confronted with the fact that their body just isn't the same? I was just wondering if porn actually made this harder for FTM's to do, harder to grow more comfortable with what they do have.

I think your right that at the time it probably actually helps an FTM in some ways, a bit like your RPG game. What I'm thinking is more of the after effects, when one actually is in a relationship.

[Guest My_Genesis]

Definitely makes me more dysphoric. because I just want to be like the guy in it and I find it so unfair that they have that equipment that I don't. At the same time though, I get aroused by it because I want to be experiencing what the guy is. I think most cis-guys feel the same way when they watch it, but for me, not having that equipment myself, makes it even more intense.

It doesn't even come to the point of really a body image issue, I mean, in the sense the cis-guys might feel like "my penis isn't big enough." for me it's just "I don't even have those parts" I don't care if I can't be as big as he guys that are in porn, I just wish I had the right parts, that's all. So yeah, it gives me a lot of dysphoria. And actually, I don't watch porn that often. Most of the time when I do it's to analyze myself and figure out what it says about my sexuality that I prefer straight porn over lesbian porn. lol. But again, I think that goes back to wanting to feel what the guy is feeling. Which makes me more dysphoric, so I try to stay away from it most of the time :/

[Flint]

Definitely makes me more dysphoric. because I just want to be like the guy in it and I find it so unfair that they have that equipment that I don't. At the same time though, I get aroused by it because I want to be experiencing what the guy is. I think most cis-guys feel the same way when they watch it, but for me, not having that equipment myself, makes it even more intense.

It doesn't even come to the point of really a body image issue, I mean, in the sense the cis-guys might feel like "my penis isn't big enough." for me it's just "I don't even have those parts" I don't care if I can't be as big as he guys that are in porn, I just wish I had the right parts, that's all. So yeah, it gives me a lot of dysphoria. And actually, I don't watch porn that often. Most of the time when I do it's to analyze myself and figure out what it says about my sexuality that I prefer straight porn over lesbian porn. lol. But again, I think that goes back to wanting to feel what the guy is feeling. Which makes me more dysphoric, so I try to stay away from it most of the time :/

I can understand that too.

I guess there are 3 potential sides. 1 of those sides being they don't look at it in the first place. The second being they hardly do because of the dysphoria it brings and then 3 there are probably some where it helps them imagine themselves as a biological man and for that reason becomes important to them.

[Guest ShortyT]

I watch porn, gay or straight(if only females, there's no interest). I doesn't make me any more dysphoric. I think finding an actual partner and getting down to business will be a challenge for me, but I don't see porn playing a part in that.

[Guest ShortyT]

I can understand that too.

I guess there are 3 potential sides. 1 of those sides being they don't look at it in the first place. The second being they hardly do because of the dysphoria it brings and then 3 there are probably some where it helps them imagine themselves as a biological man and for that reason becomes important to them.

And 4 - they just like porn?

[JJ]

Beyond the immersion in feeling more like a biological male I also found that the porn that demonstrates the use of the techniques and devices necessary to most FtMs and the positive portrayal of that as a sexual experience actually makes me more comfortable with the idea. It would feel less awkward and unsure now I think.

My views of my sexual orientation has been changing since I realized I was trans and by watching porn it pretty much confirms what I suspect. I am not gay as I suspected at first. Don't enjoy gay porn. Which is difficult unless I find a way to transition. I can't imagine being with a woman in this body. I can't imagine myself in anything again except a straight relationship. Past relationships had lead me to believe I was asexual. Now I think maybe not. But being trans does interfere in my sexual expression because I am a straight man and not a lesbian.

Although always drawn to visual porn since I stared reading my ex's Playboy 35 years ago I only occasionally watch it. I don't care for verbal porn at all. It is a generation thing perhaps that it is difficult for me to even discuss.Or maybe it's socialization since men have been creating and viewing explicit porn for thousands of years.

[Guest Chiv]

Matthias, I feel and agree a lot with both your posts. As JJ said there will be different opinions. For me, I had 2 brief periods where I watched straight porn. I have always been attracted to women. For me, it did increase my dysphoria temporarily because I don't have what they have right now. The positive was that it reaffirmed for me that my abilities as a lover don't depend on having a specific body part because that isn't what makes a man.

Online tone can be misunderstood so I don't want to get into a debate or judgement over porn and whatever works for someone is fine as long as they are okay with it. Porn can and has affected people's sex lives with a real partner and can desensitize one and make one crave stronger and more graphic and more violent images. When it starts consuming one's life or becomes an escape to the point that it is addictive, it is unhealthy. For me, after the initial euphoria of seeing different body types (being PG too) it lost its appeal. I don't think any porn presents realistic sex or loving image of any gender. Erotica maybe.

Some people may choose to participate in it but it does reduce people to a sexual object and I found for me that did not work. In moderation,it is safe sex and can be very visually stimulating.

[Guest Colm]

I think I've completely compartmentalised this (as I tend to do), so it hasn't really been a problem. I read a blog post about this a few years ago that had some interesting observations on the (ftm) author's experiences with porn and it's effects on him. I'm not going to link there because his blog isn't pg, but you can PM me for it if you'd like. He's stopped writing, which is unfortunate because I think he had some really interesting stuff to say.

[Guest My_Genesis]

I think I've completely compartmentalised this (as I tend to do), so it hasn't really been a problem. I read a blog post about this a few years ago that had some interesting observations on the (ftm) author's experiences with porn and it's effects on him. I'm not going to link there because his blog isn't pg, but you can PM me for it if you'd like. He's stopped writing, which is unfortunate because I think he had some really interesting stuff to say.

compartmentalized it? how do you mean?

[Guest Elizabeth K]

Well... on a personal level as an older MTF whom has essentially transitioned, ha... let me say PORN is something that I have been around for 60 years. In really feel there are many levels of erotic display, with 'porn' being the most extreme (but it can be associated with some OTHER things, such as fetishes and even illegal activities).

So it seems that the definition of PORN is pretty much all over the place. It's what you think is a bit too naughty to admit you view it - grin...

I think Soap Operas on TV are a form of woman's porn, but I would call it woman's erotic fantasy. And men at the erotic fantasy level are reading Playboy. Women tend to be caught up in relationships and demonstrations of affection, while men are focused on a visual stimulus, especially of women who are young and beautiful.

In neither case are the people portrayed 'real' - but rather a fabrication using all the tricks of make-up and airbrushing the media can find. Grin - in other words - pure erotic fantasy. 'YOU WISH" better describes it.

BUT it can step up past fantasy to erotic stimulation and fetish interest, especially for the men (but some women also enjoy a more risque eroticism). But it seems somewhat counterproductive again, as not a single part of it is realistic. The only part that may be worthwhile is the clear sexual presentation, which does educate what people can do - but whoa! There are probably better ways to educate the unwashed masses.

Then there can be hard pornography. I don't need to explain that. I suspect most of us have gone there out of curiosity, but most don't stay. Frankly, I just don't feel it has much value, but SOMEBODY likes it because it is a big industry.

My thinking... of course.

As a newly minted woman, I don't like to be considered an object, and I am learning everyday what THAT is! But I always felt any pornography beyond the milder fantasy eroticism, exploited women, gays, lesbian people... whatever. Exploiting straight men even - maybe.

So do we need PORN? Each person determines their needs. 'Porn" DOES explain things sometimes, I mean in a rather graphic manner. If that's what you have an interest in, knock yourself out, pop-quiz in the morning... GRIN.

Lizzy.

[Guest Colm]

compartmentalized it? how do you mean?

Basically, I've separated it in my mind to the point where sex in real life has basically nothing to do with watching porn, and the, I dunno, state of mind that I'm in when watching porn has so little to do with real life that the factual aspects of it don't really have anything to do with me.

[Flint]

Basically, I've separated it in my mind to the point where sex in real life has basically nothing to do with watching porn, and the, I dunno, state of mind that I'm in when watching porn has so little to do with real life that the factual aspects of it don't really have anything to do with me.

Yea. I think that is the healthiest way. I manage to do the same for the most part. But sometimes I wonder if when it came to a relationship if my image of myself would just not...work for me as in...I just wouldn't be able to....get anything out of it purely due to the fact that I can't see that I have what other men have. Plus it seems porn is always an interesting subject. it comes up with many different debates. And I sure do like a debate.

My ideas of porn have changed vastly, I mean I used to be the kinda person who would go as far as to say "It's sick" what changed in me didn't happen over night, it's just that I opened up my view and now I can separate in my head different kinds of porn. The kind of porn I still deem as 'disgusting' and the porn I deem as not.

[Flint]

Matthias, I feel and agree a lot with both your posts. As JJ said there will be different opinions. For me, I had 2 brief periods where I watched straight porn. I have always been attracted to women. For me, it did increase my dysphoria temporarily because I don't have what they have right now. The positive was that it reaffirmed for me that my abilities as a lover don't depend on having a specific body part because that isn't what makes a man.

Online tone can be misunderstood so I don't want to get into a debate or judgement over porn and whatever works for someone is fine as long as they are okay with it. Porn can and has affected people's sex lives with a real partner and can desensitize one and make one crave stronger and more graphic and more violent images. When it starts consuming one's life or becomes an escape to the point that it is addictive, it is unhealthy. For me, after the initial euphoria of seeing different body types (being PG too) it lost its appeal. I don't think any porn presents realistic sex or loving image of any gender. Erotica maybe.

Some people may choose to participate in it but it does reduce people to a sexual object and I found for me that did not work. In moderation,it is safe sex and can be very visually stimulating.

Yea there is the possibility with some that it becomes more than just porn. When it starts to effect them and they need such stronger images and such things it's clearly become more than porn to them, and that's where the danger lurks.

[Guest My_Genesis]

Yea. I think that is the healthiest way. I manage to do the same for the most part. But sometimes I wonder if when it came to a relationship if my image of myself would just not...work for me as in...I just wouldn't be able to....get anything out of it purely due to the fact that I can't see that I have what other men have. Plus it seems porn is always an interesting subject. it comes up with many different debates. And I sure do like a debate.

My ideas of porn have changed vastly, I mean I used to be the kinda person who would go as far as to say "It's sick" what changed in me didn't happen over night, it's just that I opened up my view and now I can separate in my head different kinds of porn. The kind of porn I still deem as 'disgusting' and the porn I deem as not.

I find the women in porn are often unattractive (maybe... too fake? overkill?) so as I said before I don't really watch it regularly, I have used it as a "test" many times. I don't think I'd get into a relationship with someone I wasn't attracted to physically in the first place, to be honest...

also I'd rather pretend I have those parts in real life than have it stuck right in my face "haha I have all this and you don't!"

[Flint]

I find the women in porn are often unattractive (maybe... too fake? overkill?) so as I said before I don't really watch it regularly, I have used it as a "test" many times. I don't think I'd get into a relationship with someone I wasn't attracted to physically in the first place, to be honest...

also I'd rather pretend I have those parts in real life than have it stuck right in my face "haha I have all this and you don't!"

I think for me...it helps me visualise.

Anyway.....

It's not necessarily about finding the woman attractive, it's often about just having a stimulating imagine going on in front of you. Maybe that is just me. lol.

[Guest My_Genesis]

I think for me...it helps me visualise.

Anyway.....

It's not necessarily about finding the woman attractive, it's often about just having a stimulating imagine going on in front of you. Maybe that is just me. lol.

A "stimulating image" for me would include a woman who I find attractive lol

[Flint]

A "stimulating image" for me would include a woman who I find attractive lol

Lol I get your point. But what I mean is...I need the visual effects to help me visualise myself...I often imagine another woman in all honesty. Lol.

[JJ]

As Lizzy says there are many, many kinds of porn. Some does exploit women and some fits every negative connotation there is.

But not all porn objectifies women any more than it does men. In fact there is a whole field aimed specifically at women. Sex is a biological urge and while some women need to express that urge witin the context of a relationship not all do. Many women are as interested in casual relationships as any man. I think in some sorts of porn women are empowered because they are recognized as equal participants and partners.

Oddly enough,in every study I have ever read women's #1 fantasy is rape. It's why a certain genre of romance fiction sells so well. Encounters with strangers is right up there too. Many of the scenarios acted out in porn-outside of the really bad stuff, is part of women's erotic fantasies too. Something women rarely if ever revealed to men in the past but they did swap books and information according to the historians I have read. Certainly when I was eaves dropping as a child I heard my grandmother and her other country club friends exchanging risque jokes and stories. They circulated books, which no man ever even suspected, among themselves too. It was the same with the girls I knew in high school. But society demanded it be hidden. But the real point is that this is erotic fantasy. Not something the expect or even want to have happen

Of course women want to be more than sex objects in a relationship but to say they don't want to be seen as sex objects is to deny them their sexuality in the same way that the old view that nice women didn't enjoy sex did.

Anything can become obsessive to someone who is off balance. Of course people become addicted to porn just like almost anything else you can name. But it is the symptom and not the cause.

We are all individuals with individual reactions but viewing porn never actually had any impact on my real life except to heighten curiosity.

[Guest My_Genesis]

Lol I get your point. But what I mean is...I need the visual effects to help me visualise myself...I often imagine another woman in all honesty. Lol.

lol, that would be hard for me to visualise though. that's like showing me a picture of a banana and telling me to imagine it's an apple because I like those better

Of course women want to be more than sex objects in a relationship but to say they don't want to be seen as sex objects is to deny them their sexuality in the same way that the old view that nice women didn't enjoy sex did.

how does that deny them their sexuality? are you saying part of their sexuality is to be seen as sex objects?

[Flint]

Maybe sex object is the wrong word.

See this is something I've always found very confusing with women, they say things about not wanting to be treated like a sex object. I think "fair enough" but sometimes they say it so much, I actually feel like I can't even see them as sexy or good looking and that can get very confusing. Most women do want to be seen as sexy, just not used as if they're just an object you can simply throw away.

[Guest Jessy_James]

I was on the Venus Envy website, it's a Canadian sex education and toys store, and they have FTM on FTM/Cis-guy porn now from some indie company. I haven't seen or heard of this before but I'm curious as to... the approach I guess you could say.

[JJ]

how does that deny them their sexuality? are you saying part of their sexuality is to be seen as sex objects?

Actually yes, to a degree. Most of the women I have observed have been pleased when someone flirted, gave them an admiring glance or smile. What were they being admired for except their sexual attractiveness? Their role as a sex object. That's just biology. Women feel it too. They have been socialized to behave differently, even to see it as shameful.

I don't think there is anything wrong with being a sex object unless, as has historically happened, that is the only role allowed. Women see men as sex objects too. They were just culturally prevented from expressing that aspect of their sexuality. While there are some differences in male and female sexual expression I don't believe they are nearly as great as the differences that have been enforced on "nice girls" by society.

There has also been a form of Demimonde in almost every society where women enjoyed a frank sexuality. It was a hidden world but a very real and flourishing one nevertheless.

Sexuality does not define a person, man or woman and when that is the only light in which someone is allowed to be seen it is wrong. But otherwise I think the objectification of both men and women for sex is a biological reality.Neither right nor wrong. Just reality.

It becomes problematic when that view is carried over into all relationships and prevents people from being seen and treated as complex human beings with roles far beyond sex